So who is the AM that doesn’t buckle their own helmet?

PulpMxCommenter wrote:

Seriously. I get that there’s a lot of younger people blowing money on stupid shit. But like a lot of things in life, those are the...

Seriously. I get that there’s a lot of younger people blowing money on stupid shit. But like a lot of things in life, those are the ones you’re exposed to via social media. 

My wife and I paid for our wedding in cash, which cost around $19.5k after everything including dress, rings (lab grown fellas, it’s the way to go), suit, etc. We had numerous people estimate that we had a $50k event. Nope, we just knew how to maximize what we could afford and my wife did all the setup design herself. No coordinator, did the flowers ourselves after buying wholesale too. Then we spent $5k to go to Cape Cod for a week and a half, which was paid for by the wedding gift fund. 

I could go on about this. I’m actively contemplating getting a second degree (of which I’ll pay for in cash like my first one) in psychology simply to study and assess the materialistic misery of these millennials and Gen Z folks. 

3strokemx wrote:

How much did you have to pay your wife's family for her?

cheesehead420 wrote:

I'm not going there anymore than you are. You believe any and all efforts to control or change institutional policy is futile (in essence you no...

I'm not going there anymore than you are.

 You believe any and all efforts to control or change institutional policy is futile (in essence you no longer believe in the most fundamental of American beliefs). You're the one relying on others to "fix" things for you, as you believe only politicians and political institutions have the right and possess the power to structure society ( a deeply un-American belief).

 I believe we do possess the collective power to shape our collective lives, contrary to your very passive and apathetic belief that we don't.  

 The "don't go there" is a mentality those in power love to see imparted on those without. Its a very slippery slope once you start believing your political effort is futile and you need someone else (politicians) to fix things for you. I'd try to climb back up that slope if I were you.

PulpMxCommenter wrote:

Seriously. I get that there’s a lot of younger people blowing money on stupid shit. But like a lot of things in life, those are the...

Seriously. I get that there’s a lot of younger people blowing money on stupid shit. But like a lot of things in life, those are the ones you’re exposed to via social media. 

My wife and I paid for our wedding in cash, which cost around $19.5k after everything including dress, rings (lab grown fellas, it’s the way to go), suit, etc. We had numerous people estimate that we had a $50k event. Nope, we just knew how to maximize what we could afford and my wife did all the setup design herself. No coordinator, did the flowers ourselves after buying wholesale too. Then we spent $5k to go to Cape Cod for a week and a half, which was paid for by the wedding gift fund. 

I could go on about this. I’m actively contemplating getting a second degree (of which I’ll pay for in cash like my first one) in psychology simply to study and assess the materialistic misery of these millennials and Gen Z folks. 

3strokemx wrote:

How much did you have to pay your wife's family for her?

Spoonguy wrote:

You are a pretty provincial person my friend.

MemberSpaceNameColon wrote:

I hate to be like this but . . . . . it’s a satanic inversion of the 4th commandment.“You shall honor your father and mother.”Now...

I hate to be like this but . . . . . it’s a satanic inversion of the 4th commandment.

“You shall honor your father and mother.”

Now it’s backwards.  The parents honor the kid.  And then the parents wonder why adolescence lasts into late 20’s or even early 30’s.  This is 100% on the parents.

MemberSpaceNameColon wrote:

I hate to be like this but . . . . . it’s a satanic inversion of the 4th commandment.“You shall honor your father and mother.”Now...

I hate to be like this but . . . . . it’s a satanic inversion of the 4th commandment.

“You shall honor your father and mother.”

Now it’s backwards.  The parents honor the kid.  And then the parents wonder why adolescence lasts into late 20’s or even early 30’s.  This is 100% on the parents.

zehn wrote:

We somehow went from dad’s buckling helmets to Satanism and the 10 commandments. Get a life dude 

30minmotos wrote:

Wah I only want everything to be superficial. Deeper conversations are lame.

Gimmea2Smoke wrote:

was talking about this yesterday w/ the wife. We're new "empty-nesters" in our late 40s. We both were working like crazy at 18, moved out, sought...

was talking about this yesterday w/ the wife. We're new "empty-nesters" in our late 40s. We both were working like crazy at 18, moved out, sought independence, wanted nothing from our parents, etc. 

Now we have kids that are 19,20...and these kids are sitting around playing video games, no real interest in moving forward in life, and are wasting some of the best/most productive years of their lives despite she and I constantly hammering them with suggestions on moving forward. I told my mom yesterday "I guess it's our generation's fault, but I don't understand it."

My only conclusion is that they've been told their whole lives that they can make $1m making IG clips or something. I truly don't understand it.

kijen wrote:

Hard times create strong menGood men create good timesGood times create weak menWeak men create bad timesAnd the cycle continues,  i heard this a couple of...

Hard times create strong men

Good men create good times

Good times create weak men

Weak men create bad times

And the cycle continues,  i heard this a couple of years ago and thought it was spot on.

cheesehead420 wrote:

What exactly are you defending? I’m just catching up on this thread and I can’t say I see any young guns complaining. I see guys relating...

What exactly are you defending? I’m just catching up on this thread and I can’t say I see any young guns complaining. I see guys relating their experience and slight dismay at the opportunities available, but not complaining. 

It seems to me that you are the only one complaining. Complaining that everyone else isn’t applauding the destruction of the American working middle class and the opportunities which made it possible. 

It seems to me you are defending economic policies which are decidedly anti-American and run contrary to the values which gave rise to the opportunities and generations that made America great in the first place. 

Spoonguy wrote:

Not defending anything friend, just stating reality. The USA only had the majority of families in homes since post WWII, and that was largely due to...

Not defending anything friend, just stating reality. The USA only had the majority of families in homes since post WWII, and that was largely due to the rest of the worlds economies being destroyed at the time. Not everybody gets everything they want, sorry. If you want nice things you need to be very smart and work very hard, sorry. Is it harder now, perhaps? Shouldn't there be rewards for those that excel, certainly. 

cheesehead420 wrote:

It's reality, sure, but it's only one half of it. You just seem to really be wanting to frame this debate as a cultural issue and...

It's reality, sure, but it's only one half of it. You just seem to really be wanting to frame this debate as a cultural issue and place the blame on the failings of a particular generation without considering the social and economic policies, both foreign and domestic, which have essentially cut the American working class off at the knees.

That's not to say there aren’t cultural deficiencies of millennials and the younger generation which are contributing significantly to the dysfunction, because there are and it’s a valid point, but I think it tells only half the story.

By being so quick to brush aside or to avoid addressing the real world consequences that these truly disastrous social and economic policies have had on the middle class, is to completely absolve policy and policy makers of any blame whatsoever.

My personal view is that economic and social policies come from the top down, and it is they that lay the groundwork for these cultural issues to fester and grow into systemic issues, which is why we’re at where we’re at.

We’ve changed from an economic model which once derived its might from tangible things like production and trade, to one that now generates much of its profits through financial means. It’s completely altered the dynamics of the market as well as the distribution of wealth. It's called financialization, and it most definitely goes against the values that once made America great and home to those who wanted to and had the opportunity to, pursue the chance to be free.

As I said before; hard work and honesty don’t pay like they used to. Today - money makes money, and money buys the power to further entrench this design within our economic model. The outcome is an economic disparity comparable to the Middle Ages and there’s a lot of frustration, resentment, and suffering, as a result of this.

Within this dynamic money is no longer the facilitator or the means to an end, but has become the end itself. Things have changed. It’s just different and we’ll have to adapt. I just wouldn’t be so quick to frame this as a cultural issue. I personally see the class issue is a more fundamental element in the problem.

Your solution: work harder for longer, and be happy with and expect less profit from your labor/time, seems to me a very superficial approach. Maybe we should address the root of the problem by revisiting and rethinking the economic and social policies that have led us to our present state?

 

* BTW I fully agree with your second sentence. The evolution of that statement: Is that now, an inestimably small amount of families are succeeding largely due to the destruction (exploitation) of the means in which 99.9% of the worlds population rely upon for economic stability and financial independence. The "winners" in this world are not excelling! They are liars, thieves, scoundrels, and con-men. They are middle men and produce nothing, they have simply stacked the cards in their favor so they may more efficiently exploit and syphon the profits from our labor. Your children are not excelling, they are simply just better at contributing towards strengthening a game and a machine which will serve only to make the lives of their children that much more difficult to ever understand the conception of freedom.

JMR1976 wrote:

This new generation want to be alpha so bad yet they can’t put their bike on a stand. lol 

Spoonguy wrote:

Not defending anything friend, just stating reality. The USA only had the majority of families in homes since post WWII, and that was largely due to...

Not defending anything friend, just stating reality. The USA only had the majority of families in homes since post WWII, and that was largely due to the rest of the worlds economies being destroyed at the time. Not everybody gets everything they want, sorry. If you want nice things you need to be very smart and work very hard, sorry. Is it harder now, perhaps? Shouldn't there be rewards for those that excel, certainly. 

cheesehead420 wrote:

It's reality, sure, but it's only one half of it. You just seem to really be wanting to frame this debate as a cultural issue and...

It's reality, sure, but it's only one half of it. You just seem to really be wanting to frame this debate as a cultural issue and place the blame on the failings of a particular generation without considering the social and economic policies, both foreign and domestic, which have essentially cut the American working class off at the knees.

That's not to say there aren’t cultural deficiencies of millennials and the younger generation which are contributing significantly to the dysfunction, because there are and it’s a valid point, but I think it tells only half the story.

By being so quick to brush aside or to avoid addressing the real world consequences that these truly disastrous social and economic policies have had on the middle class, is to completely absolve policy and policy makers of any blame whatsoever.

My personal view is that economic and social policies come from the top down, and it is they that lay the groundwork for these cultural issues to fester and grow into systemic issues, which is why we’re at where we’re at.

We’ve changed from an economic model which once derived its might from tangible things like production and trade, to one that now generates much of its profits through financial means. It’s completely altered the dynamics of the market as well as the distribution of wealth. It's called financialization, and it most definitely goes against the values that once made America great and home to those who wanted to and had the opportunity to, pursue the chance to be free.

As I said before; hard work and honesty don’t pay like they used to. Today - money makes money, and money buys the power to further entrench this design within our economic model. The outcome is an economic disparity comparable to the Middle Ages and there’s a lot of frustration, resentment, and suffering, as a result of this.

Within this dynamic money is no longer the facilitator or the means to an end, but has become the end itself. Things have changed. It’s just different and we’ll have to adapt. I just wouldn’t be so quick to frame this as a cultural issue. I personally see the class issue is a more fundamental element in the problem.

Your solution: work harder for longer, and be happy with and expect less profit from your labor/time, seems to me a very superficial approach. Maybe we should address the root of the problem by revisiting and rethinking the economic and social policies that have led us to our present state?

 

* BTW I fully agree with your second sentence. The evolution of that statement: Is that now, an inestimably small amount of families are succeeding largely due to the destruction (exploitation) of the means in which 99.9% of the worlds population rely upon for economic stability and financial independence. The "winners" in this world are not excelling! They are liars, thieves, scoundrels, and con-men. They are middle men and produce nothing, they have simply stacked the cards in their favor so they may more efficiently exploit and syphon the profits from our labor. Your children are not excelling, they are simply just better at contributing towards strengthening a game and a machine which will serve only to make the lives of their children that much more difficult to ever understand the conception of freedom.

Jkawi wrote:

Well I think cheesehead420 (oh the irony) is bang on here. Couldn't have said it better myself. Well articulated.

BoxcarWilly wrote:

If only I could cut back on my frivolous spending, maybe then I could buy a home. I just can’t control my urges. 😢

If only I could cut back on my frivolous spending, maybe then I could buy a home. I just can’t control my urges. 😢

MemberSpaceNameColon wrote:

I hate to be like this but . . . . . it’s a satanic inversion of the 4th commandment.“You shall honor your father and mother.”Now...

I hate to be like this but . . . . . it’s a satanic inversion of the 4th commandment.

“You shall honor your father and mother.”

Now it’s backwards.  The parents honor the kid.  And then the parents wonder why adolescence lasts into late 20’s or even early 30’s.  This is 100% on the parents.

cheesehead420 wrote:

It's reality, sure, but it's only one half of it. You just seem to really be wanting to frame this debate as a cultural issue and...

It's reality, sure, but it's only one half of it. You just seem to really be wanting to frame this debate as a cultural issue and place the blame on the failings of a particular generation without considering the social and economic policies, both foreign and domestic, which have essentially cut the American working class off at the knees.

That's not to say there aren’t cultural deficiencies of millennials and the younger generation which are contributing significantly to the dysfunction, because there are and it’s a valid point, but I think it tells only half the story.

By being so quick to brush aside or to avoid addressing the real world consequences that these truly disastrous social and economic policies have had on the middle class, is to completely absolve policy and policy makers of any blame whatsoever.

My personal view is that economic and social policies come from the top down, and it is they that lay the groundwork for these cultural issues to fester and grow into systemic issues, which is why we’re at where we’re at.

We’ve changed from an economic model which once derived its might from tangible things like production and trade, to one that now generates much of its profits through financial means. It’s completely altered the dynamics of the market as well as the distribution of wealth. It's called financialization, and it most definitely goes against the values that once made America great and home to those who wanted to and had the opportunity to, pursue the chance to be free.

As I said before; hard work and honesty don’t pay like they used to. Today - money makes money, and money buys the power to further entrench this design within our economic model. The outcome is an economic disparity comparable to the Middle Ages and there’s a lot of frustration, resentment, and suffering, as a result of this.

Within this dynamic money is no longer the facilitator or the means to an end, but has become the end itself. Things have changed. It’s just different and we’ll have to adapt. I just wouldn’t be so quick to frame this as a cultural issue. I personally see the class issue is a more fundamental element in the problem.

Your solution: work harder for longer, and be happy with and expect less profit from your labor/time, seems to me a very superficial approach. Maybe we should address the root of the problem by revisiting and rethinking the economic and social policies that have led us to our present state?

 

* BTW I fully agree with your second sentence. The evolution of that statement: Is that now, an inestimably small amount of families are succeeding largely due to the destruction (exploitation) of the means in which 99.9% of the worlds population rely upon for economic stability and financial independence. The "winners" in this world are not excelling! They are liars, thieves, scoundrels, and con-men. They are middle men and produce nothing, they have simply stacked the cards in their favor so they may more efficiently exploit and syphon the profits from our labor. Your children are not excelling, they are simply just better at contributing towards strengthening a game and a machine which will serve only to make the lives of their children that much more difficult to ever understand the conception of freedom.

Jkawi wrote:

Well I think cheesehead420 (oh the irony) is bang on here. Couldn't have said it better myself. Well articulated.

truck wrote:

There are plenty of countries now and throughout history that have tried the things he's always describing without being willing to name. People usually can't wait...

There are plenty of countries now and throughout history that have tried the things he's always describing without being willing to name. People usually can't wait to leave those countries to come to places like the USA. They're so desperate to leave they'll even get on makeshift rafts and float out into the ocean just hoping they'll land somewhere else. Not too many people in the US trying to get into those countries. 

Jkawi wrote:

Well I think cheesehead420 (oh the irony) is bang on here. Couldn't have said it better myself. Well articulated.

truck wrote:

There are plenty of countries now and throughout history that have tried the things he's always describing without being willing to name. People usually can't wait...

There are plenty of countries now and throughout history that have tried the things he's always describing without being willing to name. People usually can't wait to leave those countries to come to places like the USA. They're so desperate to leave they'll even get on makeshift rafts and float out into the ocean just hoping they'll land somewhere else. Not too many people in the US trying to get into those countries. 

cheesehead420 wrote:

The only country in modern history that has allowed the working man to pursue financial independence with a modicum of freedom has been the USA, and...

The only country in modern history that has allowed the working man to pursue financial independence with a modicum of freedom has been the USA, and that’s the reason we got to the top. 

The societal and economic policies aimed at, and for the benefit of the working class have been systematically undermined and dismantled. 

The walking back of those ideals and the values which once made us great, and which once made us strong and morally cohesive, is why we’re seeing our opportunities for financial independence disappear. 

The only thing I’m advocating for is common sense measures. The most fundamental of which would be keeping government out of social, cultural, and economic affairs. 

Unless @truck you believe government and politicians are better fit than you to decide how you earn, spend and save your money, and how you raise your family? 

truck wrote:

There are plenty of countries now and throughout history that have tried the things he's always describing without being willing to name. People usually can't wait...

There are plenty of countries now and throughout history that have tried the things he's always describing without being willing to name. People usually can't wait to leave those countries to come to places like the USA. They're so desperate to leave they'll even get on makeshift rafts and float out into the ocean just hoping they'll land somewhere else. Not too many people in the US trying to get into those countries. 

cheesehead420 wrote:

The only country in modern history that has allowed the working man to pursue financial independence with a modicum of freedom has been the USA, and...

The only country in modern history that has allowed the working man to pursue financial independence with a modicum of freedom has been the USA, and that’s the reason we got to the top. 

The societal and economic policies aimed at, and for the benefit of the working class have been systematically undermined and dismantled. 

The walking back of those ideals and the values which once made us great, and which once made us strong and morally cohesive, is why we’re seeing our opportunities for financial independence disappear. 

The only thing I’m advocating for is common sense measures. The most fundamental of which would be keeping government out of social, cultural, and economic affairs. 

Unless @truck you believe government and politicians are better fit than you to decide how you earn, spend and save your money, and how you raise your family? 

Spoonguy wrote:

People in this country relinquish their financial and personal freedoms for perceived fairness and safety. It is a choice they make again and again, we choose...

People in this country relinquish their financial and personal freedoms for perceived fairness and safety. It is a choice they make again and again, we choose our government. SSI is a prime example, citizens relinquish 15% of the lifetime income for the safety of a pittance of money monthly in old age. Or the ACA, piss poor health care for a multi-billion dollar nanny state over the medical industry. And the patriot act, I could go on and on. We choose this.

Spoonguy wrote:

People in this country relinquish their financial and personal freedoms for perceived fairness and safety. It is a choice they make again and again, we choose...

People in this country relinquish their financial and personal freedoms for perceived fairness and safety. It is a choice they make again and again, we choose our government. SSI is a prime example, citizens relinquish 15% of the lifetime income for the safety of a pittance of money monthly in old age. Or the ACA, piss poor health care for a multi-billion dollar nanny state over the medical industry. And the patriot act, I could go on and on. We choose this.

Jkawi wrote:

Well I think cheesehead420 (oh the irony) is bang on here. Couldn't have said it better myself. Well articulated.

truck wrote:

There are plenty of countries now and throughout history that have tried the things he's always describing without being willing to name. People usually can't wait...

There are plenty of countries now and throughout history that have tried the things he's always describing without being willing to name. People usually can't wait to leave those countries to come to places like the USA. They're so desperate to leave they'll even get on makeshift rafts and float out into the ocean just hoping they'll land somewhere else. Not too many people in the US trying to get into those countries. 

cheesehead420 wrote:

The only country in modern history that has allowed the working man to pursue financial independence with a modicum of freedom has been the USA, and...

The only country in modern history that has allowed the working man to pursue financial independence with a modicum of freedom has been the USA, and that’s the reason we got to the top. 

The societal and economic policies aimed at, and for the benefit of the working class have been systematically undermined and dismantled. 

The walking back of those ideals and the values which once made us great, and which once made us strong and morally cohesive, is why we’re seeing our opportunities for financial independence disappear. 

The only thing I’m advocating for is common sense measures. The most fundamental of which would be keeping government out of social, cultural, and economic affairs. 

Unless @truck you believe government and politicians are better fit than you to decide how you earn, spend and save your money, and how you raise your family? 

truck wrote:

"My personal view is that economic and social policies come from the top down, and it is they that lay the groundwork for these cultural issues...

"My personal view is that economic and social policies come from the top down, and it is they that lay the groundwork for these cultural issues to fester and grow into systemic issues, which is why we’re at where we’re at."

"Your solution: work harder for longer, and be happy with and expect less profit from your labor/time, seems to me a very superficial approach. Maybe we should address the root of the problem by revisiting and rethinking the economic and social policies that have led us to our present state?"

Those are your quotes. That is the exact opposite of keeping government out of social, cultural, and economic affairs. Based on statements you have repeatedly made, you absolutely want government involved in social, cultural, and economic affairs, you just want a different form of government. The form of government you've described well several times goes by a few different names, but you never use one of them, which is both telling and hilarious. Why not be clear about what form of government you want? Name it. Tell us the places you believe have modeled it with success for us. Your comments on these matters are a lot like the forms of government you're describing, they sound great until you think about them or try them and see the results. 

truck wrote:

"My personal view is that economic and social policies come from the top down, and it is they that lay the groundwork for these cultural issues...

"My personal view is that economic and social policies come from the top down, and it is they that lay the groundwork for these cultural issues to fester and grow into systemic issues, which is why we’re at where we’re at."

"Your solution: work harder for longer, and be happy with and expect less profit from your labor/time, seems to me a very superficial approach. Maybe we should address the root of the problem by revisiting and rethinking the economic and social policies that have led us to our present state?"

Those are your quotes. That is the exact opposite of keeping government out of social, cultural, and economic affairs. Based on statements you have repeatedly made, you absolutely want government involved in social, cultural, and economic affairs, you just want a different form of government. The form of government you've described well several times goes by a few different names, but you never use one of them, which is both telling and hilarious. Why not be clear about what form of government you want? Name it. Tell us the places you believe have modeled it with success for us. Your comments on these matters are a lot like the forms of government you're describing, they sound great until you think about them or try them and see the results. 

3strokemx wrote:

I think you're misinterpreting. Doesn't sound very government friendly to me.

Problems start from the top and changing your mindset doesn't address the problems.  🤷

cheesehead420 wrote:

The only country in modern history that has allowed the working man to pursue financial independence with a modicum of freedom has been the USA, and...

The only country in modern history that has allowed the working man to pursue financial independence with a modicum of freedom has been the USA, and that’s the reason we got to the top. 

The societal and economic policies aimed at, and for the benefit of the working class have been systematically undermined and dismantled. 

The walking back of those ideals and the values which once made us great, and which once made us strong and morally cohesive, is why we’re seeing our opportunities for financial independence disappear. 

The only thing I’m advocating for is common sense measures. The most fundamental of which would be keeping government out of social, cultural, and economic affairs. 

Unless @truck you believe government and politicians are better fit than you to decide how you earn, spend and save your money, and how you raise your family? 

Spoonguy wrote:

People in this country relinquish their financial and personal freedoms for perceived fairness and safety. It is a choice they make again and again, we choose...

People in this country relinquish their financial and personal freedoms for perceived fairness and safety. It is a choice they make again and again, we choose our government. SSI is a prime example, citizens relinquish 15% of the lifetime income for the safety of a pittance of money monthly in old age. Or the ACA, piss poor health care for a multi-billion dollar nanny state over the medical industry. And the patriot act, I could go on and on. We choose this.

cheesehead420 wrote:

Voters did not vote on the Federal Reserve Act, the abandonment of the gold standard, the Social Security act, the Patriot Act, or the Affordable Care...

Voters did not vote on the Federal Reserve Act, the abandonment of the gold standard, the Social Security act, the Patriot Act, or the Affordable Care Act…. 
 

Freedom to choose between a kick to the nuts or a foot up your ass isn’t what I would call freedom, or choice.

We are to blame for being ignorant enough to believe other men know better than us and to allow ourselves to be manipulated into believing they have our best interests in mind. 

We are ultimately to blame, but when choices are limited and men are made to believe they face imminent and existential threats, then that is not freedom of choice, that is coercion. 

truck wrote:

There are plenty of countries now and throughout history that have tried the things he's always describing without being willing to name. People usually can't wait...

There are plenty of countries now and throughout history that have tried the things he's always describing without being willing to name. People usually can't wait to leave those countries to come to places like the USA. They're so desperate to leave they'll even get on makeshift rafts and float out into the ocean just hoping they'll land somewhere else. Not too many people in the US trying to get into those countries. 

cheesehead420 wrote:

The only country in modern history that has allowed the working man to pursue financial independence with a modicum of freedom has been the USA, and...

The only country in modern history that has allowed the working man to pursue financial independence with a modicum of freedom has been the USA, and that’s the reason we got to the top. 

The societal and economic policies aimed at, and for the benefit of the working class have been systematically undermined and dismantled. 

The walking back of those ideals and the values which once made us great, and which once made us strong and morally cohesive, is why we’re seeing our opportunities for financial independence disappear. 

The only thing I’m advocating for is common sense measures. The most fundamental of which would be keeping government out of social, cultural, and economic affairs. 

Unless @truck you believe government and politicians are better fit than you to decide how you earn, spend and save your money, and how you raise your family? 

truck wrote:

"My personal view is that economic and social policies come from the top down, and it is they that lay the groundwork for these cultural issues...

"My personal view is that economic and social policies come from the top down, and it is they that lay the groundwork for these cultural issues to fester and grow into systemic issues, which is why we’re at where we’re at."

"Your solution: work harder for longer, and be happy with and expect less profit from your labor/time, seems to me a very superficial approach. Maybe we should address the root of the problem by revisiting and rethinking the economic and social policies that have led us to our present state?"

Those are your quotes. That is the exact opposite of keeping government out of social, cultural, and economic affairs. Based on statements you have repeatedly made, you absolutely want government involved in social, cultural, and economic affairs, you just want a different form of government. The form of government you've described well several times goes by a few different names, but you never use one of them, which is both telling and hilarious. Why not be clear about what form of government you want? Name it. Tell us the places you believe have modeled it with success for us. Your comments on these matters are a lot like the forms of government you're describing, they sound great until you think about them or try them and see the results. 

cheesehead420 wrote:

The only country in modern history that has allowed the working man to pursue financial independence with a modicum of freedom has been the USA, and...

The only country in modern history that has allowed the working man to pursue financial independence with a modicum of freedom has been the USA, and that’s the reason we got to the top. 

The societal and economic policies aimed at, and for the benefit of the working class have been systematically undermined and dismantled. 

The walking back of those ideals and the values which once made us great, and which once made us strong and morally cohesive, is why we’re seeing our opportunities for financial independence disappear. 

The only thing I’m advocating for is common sense measures. The most fundamental of which would be keeping government out of social, cultural, and economic affairs. 

Unless @truck you believe government and politicians are better fit than you to decide how you earn, spend and save your money, and how you raise your family? 

truck wrote:

"My personal view is that economic and social policies come from the top down, and it is they that lay the groundwork for these cultural issues...

"My personal view is that economic and social policies come from the top down, and it is they that lay the groundwork for these cultural issues to fester and grow into systemic issues, which is why we’re at where we’re at."

"Your solution: work harder for longer, and be happy with and expect less profit from your labor/time, seems to me a very superficial approach. Maybe we should address the root of the problem by revisiting and rethinking the economic and social policies that have led us to our present state?"

Those are your quotes. That is the exact opposite of keeping government out of social, cultural, and economic affairs. Based on statements you have repeatedly made, you absolutely want government involved in social, cultural, and economic affairs, you just want a different form of government. The form of government you've described well several times goes by a few different names, but you never use one of them, which is both telling and hilarious. Why not be clear about what form of government you want? Name it. Tell us the places you believe have modeled it with success for us. Your comments on these matters are a lot like the forms of government you're describing, they sound great until you think about them or try them and see the results. 

cheesehead420 wrote:

dude you are seriously misinterpreting me. "My personal view is that economic and social policies come from the top down, and it is they that lay the...

dude you are seriously misinterpreting me. 

"My personal view is that economic and social policies come from the top down, and it is they that lay the groundwork for these cultural issues to fester and grow into systemic issues, which is why we’re at where we’re at." - where we are at is shit. this is a critique of government. Our current economic and social policies do come from the top down and they suck, and they are IMO the fundamental reason for our current economic and social disorder.

"Your solution: work harder for longer, and be happy with and expect less profit from your labor/time, seems to me a very superficial approach. Maybe we should address the root of the problem by revisiting and rethinking the economic and social policies that have led us to our present state?"-- I'm saying "your solution" after quoting spoonman. AKA its his solution, not my solution.. this is me paraphrasing spoonman and critiquing him on his absurd solution.

Are you even reading what I'm writing?? Yes they are quotes from what I wrote, but they are taken so out of context and are so misrepresented in the fashion that you have represented them, that I am left only believe you have serious reading comprehension problems. 

truck wrote:

Maybe I'm having a hard time following you because no matter how many times I ask you to put a name to the theories you believe...

Maybe I'm having a hard time following you because no matter how many times I ask you to put a name to the theories you believe in or the kind of government you'd like to see or the places that are doing it the way you'd like it to be done, you never answer, at all...... and instead just speak in generalities that often contradict each other....... and if you don't have an answer and all you've got is critique of the current system, then you're not really saying anything at all and there's nothing to understand or misinterpret. 

Spoonguy wrote:

People in this country relinquish their financial and personal freedoms for perceived fairness and safety. It is a choice they make again and again, we choose...

People in this country relinquish their financial and personal freedoms for perceived fairness and safety. It is a choice they make again and again, we choose our government. SSI is a prime example, citizens relinquish 15% of the lifetime income for the safety of a pittance of money monthly in old age. Or the ACA, piss poor health care for a multi-billion dollar nanny state over the medical industry. And the patriot act, I could go on and on. We choose this.

truck wrote:

Maybe I'm having a hard time following you because no matter how many times I ask you to put a name to the theories you believe...

Maybe I'm having a hard time following you because no matter how many times I ask you to put a name to the theories you believe in or the kind of government you'd like to see or the places that are doing it the way you'd like it to be done, you never answer, at all...... and instead just speak in generalities that often contradict each other....... and if you don't have an answer and all you've got is critique of the current system, then you're not really saying anything at all and there's nothing to understand or misinterpret. 

3strokemx wrote:

Why do you feel there needs to be a brand for someone's ideology?     

truck wrote:

It doesn't have to, but it almost certainly does. Don't think he came up with something novel that nobody else has proposed before.