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Suing will never fix anything. Other than the attorneys retirement fund. 🤷♂️
Astars medic just plain didn’t see Barcia down when he went to Mookie. What baffles me is the dumbass track worker that can’t pick up a bike being more worried about picking up bikes when he SEES a rider that is a rag doll and isn’t waiving over a medic. Fuck the bike…and the race…a rider could be dying.
If lawsuits didn’t work, why do companies spend billions trying to avoid them?
If liability had no effect:
There would be no compliance departments
No safety officers
No risk management teams
No insurance underwriting standards
No internal incident reporting systems
Those exist because litigation risk works.
Lawsuits are not perfect, but they are the most effective mechanism society has for forcing powerful actors to internalize the consequences of preventable harm.
If that is the case, then they need to retake a course on what the ef the E stands for in EMT. I don't for one second question the quality of care given to Justin Barcia. I'm confident it was excellent care and i don't question that. But the response time to get to him and start giving care was unacceptable and inexcusable in those circumstances. Period.
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Yes, lawsuits work for companies that have billions and billions more to continue to make. Try mom and pop tracks (the very essence of our sport) that maybe have thousands(not billions) who are being affected by this sue happy mentality.
Fine, sue the shit out of Feld. They’ll eventually have their accountants run the numbers and realize that they can add 15 more monster truck shows in place of motorcycles and cancel stupidcross all together because it doesn’t pencil anymore. I get the outrage but if any of you truly cared about real safety you wouldn’t be doing this shit. It’s dangerous and the ultimate gross negligence is in fact signing up to participate. Everything is now someone else’s fault and they should pay…. And they’ll be right and our sport will die or become too expensive for anyone to enjoy.
This is nonsense, as anyone who has worked in fields burdened by these bureaucratic circle jerks can tell you. Bunch of people having meetings and writing protocols and making changes for the sake of justifying their existence when all it dose is get in the way of and complicate actual improvement. Too many people making a living pushing papers and everyone knows to just play along out of fear that if anyone speaks up about how retarded it all is that their job might be the first to go. Lobby the politicians to write it into law and put it on cruise control from there.
Yes this is the airbag-I'm so glad he was running it. I wonder if we will get more high profile guys deciding to run it after that.
Wouldn't have made a difference even if the medic attending Mookie knew Barcia was there. In EMS, once you make patient contact, you do not leave your patient until they refuse care or you transfer them to a higher level of care. If you do you can and will be sued if the initial patient has a poor outcome, and you could be subject to criminal charges of negligence.
You are fucked
And beyond that, if you think lawsuits drive companies to improve instead of just driving them to avoid them or get away with things when they do come, I've got some great stories to tell you from some risk management meetings.
I was once told by a risk management person that I was putting too many patients on cardiac monitoring and it was increasing hospital liability because it was leaving documentation of things. Hospital would be better off if more patients were just found dead the next time nurses came around to take vitals with no telemetry to document what happened and leave them open to criticism. That's the kind of shit lawsuits and losers in cubicles who worry about them come up with. That's how lawsuits "work" by your theory of them.
It seems like nothing major is going to change with safety in this sport until a factory rider dies on the track. I still have flashbacks to Alessi's lifeless body lying on the track at Red Bud getting landed on and ran over multiple times.
Obviously this Barcia situation was unavoidable, but the response was completely pathetic.
I sincerely hope this post is sarcasm. You never move a patient with that mechanism of injury until the spine and particularly the C-spine has been assessed, unless the airway is not patent or they are bleeding out. You can kill the patient that way or do further damage....
I should know better by now than to meander into non-motocross related topics. The law will continue to do its thing, regardless of your attitude and perception of its role in society.
I am extremely grateful that Justin Barcia appears to be OK. That was certainly not a demonstration of negligence. Just a demonstration of unpreparedness. The whole sequence of events was just a complete lack of coordination and protocol. Even the person trying to lift Barcia’s bike, for example. That person should never touch another downed motorcycle again until they’ve spent an entire week practicing whatever the fuck it was they were trying to do, at a moment when it was completely unnecessary.
To see an unconscious rider lying there for almost a minute was truly painful to watch, That was one of the scariest things I’ve witnessed in this sport, and the lack of immediate attention on Barcia just made it worse
FWIW, Burkeen posted a video last night saying that "word from the pits" is that arms/legs are moving, but big concern for his head. Didn't comment to broken bones.
Not in prehospital care, unless you have a dedicated triage team and dedicated care providers.
That Justin (seems to be) okay, is ultimately what will give the medic unit an opportunity to use this whole ordeal as something to learn from and I am still optimistic enough to think that changes in protocols will be implemented immediately. You need the ability to provide care to more than 1 person at mutiple locations around the track, and medical response is worth investing in. If they need more medical responders, this should be the catalyst for that argument.
YOU never move a patient in that scenario, but professionals who know what they're doing do. Bringing someone gently back to midline is part of the process and airway takes precedent over C spine. Guarantee you the medical crew did exactly that soon after finally getting to him. They didn't board him in fetal position.
lol please..... you're the first crew to pull up to two vehicle mvc and you stop at the first car you get to and never go look at the other? Please tell me you don't do any of this for a living.
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I'm aware of how it's done, particularly in the prehospital setting, as I served as an EMT for 10 years, and did my fair share of it. And to answer your other comments, we never ran 1 person ambulances, and at a MVC we also would have a rescue truck and additional medic units dispatched as needed
Not being at the event myself, I don’t know and haven’t seen any real mention about where the med crew actually was at the time of the accident. It seems like a lot of the criticism ignores that we have the luxury of hindsight, which the initial responders obviously didn’t have
If they were or on the far side of the track or didn’t have a clear path to the crash location, that matters. They don’t just appear next to a downed rider. And if they’d gone to Barcia first, people would be mad that they waited to help Stewart. There’s probably no version of this where everyone is instantly attended to with the best qualified people on hand. If the track workers who were close weren’t trained medical professionals, they may have made the injuries worse, not helped
Add in that they can’t cross a hot track at will without endangering themselves and the 22 other racers, and the timeline may make a lot more sense. Not ideal, but perhaps a little more understandable.
It’s easy to critique after the fact from the couch or even/especially the stands. It’s a little different in real time when you’re trying to triage and not create a second emergency.
I'm not coming after the sport dumbfuck I'm calling out the billion dollar promoters for having routine examples of giving piss poor medical attention to riders.
Wild how fast people demand accountability when it’s their rider and their race. A slow medical response sparks instant outrage, but long-term chaos, zero safeguards, and strongman politics somehow get a pass. Principles shouldn’t be situational.
Well that would be piss poor planning then, wouldn’t it? Where should the med crew be on the first lap of any main? In the first 3-4 corners, where the intensity and aggression are highest, riders are bunched up on a narrow track, and everyone is sending it battling for early position. All we hear is how important the start is and how well Kenny dices through the pack in the first lap. But the AStars crew can’t figure out where to put their team(s)? Again, fucking disgraceful preparation and execution.
Question for the group; Brian Moreau...if I recall, his accident sparked similar outrage, I believe there were some that implied the SCI could have been avoided. How have things improved from that witch hunt?
For one they didn't drag Barcia off the track...so there's one improvement......*Sarcasm Alert*
I get what you're saying, would you say it sometimes takes as long as 50 or 60 seconds to assess an injury before you move on? Is that a reasonable amount of time?
This dumbass again...
"The Zingg lawsuit clearly states..."
No, dummy. Lawsuits don't "state" anything, they make "claims." You would be much less annoying if you understood that.
Depends. If someone is awake and able to respond to a question or two, you've learned they're perfusing their brain and have at least somewhat of an airway, so you can move to next patient in a few seconds. Even if they're out it doesn't take that long to check a pulse and open airway. Can pretty quickly bounce between a few patients and determine who needs you now and who can wait.
The guy tending to mookie just didn't see barcia behind the bikes or I'm pretty sure he would have peeled off and went to him.
Maybe he would have, but someone else was attending to Bam-Bam within 30 seconds of him getting to Mookie anyway.
Yep.
I have personally sat in the crowd at an AMA-sanctioned amateur event and watched a child go down in a whoops section, followed by a failure to flag because the flagger was on his phone. If a child had been hit in that scenario, is that an "acceptable risk" because they're "gladiators"? Why have flaggers and medics at all if they don't do their job the best they can? Is the military wrong if they train extensively to avoid causalities and mitigate injuries because "it's war bro"? Should pilots "YOLO that shit" because flying is dangerous?
F1, MotoGP, MotoAmerica, WSBK, NASCAR, IndyCar and others have all improved protocols over time due to tragedy. For some reason, in motocross, this triggers a bunch of people on the Internet. I feel horrible if the Zingg (RIP) family is having to read through the opinions of random Squidbillies moaning about their lawsuit.
The irony is, these same people are crying about the death of local tracks. Every person I've talked in real life who gives up motocross/GNCC/whatever leaves because of: injuries, or risk of injury. 99% of people who ride work a job on Monday and can't afford to have a $400,000 medical bill or be paralyzed for life. But, ya know, better medics and flaggers aren't fuckin' core bro. The bikes are faster, the tracks are harder and the riders are more competitive (how many of these kids train at a camp?) than ever before. "Gladiator rules" on top of that is not gonna attract more people, it's going to mean people ride a few times, quietly sell the bike on FB Marketplace and end up buying another stupid SxS in a sport that is already shrinking due to not being affordable for the average person.
I've ridden with a motorcycle org that was terribly run, had a ton of crashes and shut down due to lawsuits. A much better org came up in their place and is successful. I'm not saying I like lawsuits, but it can work out better.