Lappers

Park Boys
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MH US

Getting laped is part of the race, but once you have been laped twice it’s time to get out of the race. I don’t pretend to know the best way to pull the guys out but they need to go. 

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3/29/2025 10:03pm Edited Date/Time 3/30/2025 1:41pm

 When you go 2 laps down then you should be removed from the race.

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14
3/30/2025 12:03am

Lappers in the main have earned their right to be there. Back markers can be a advantage or disadvantage. A savvy rider can use them to gain an advantage.

Nevertheless, they paid their money, they qualified so they race. The little airtime they get is good for their sponsors....it will be a sad day if they ever get pulled off. It will be detrimental to the sport.

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3
3/30/2025 12:08am
Boomslang wrote:
Lappers in the main have earned their right to be there. Back markers can be a advantage or disadvantage. A savvy rider can use them to...

Lappers in the main have earned their right to be there. Back markers can be a advantage or disadvantage. A savvy rider can use them to gain an advantage.

Nevertheless, they paid their money, they qualified so they race. The little airtime they get is good for their sponsors....it will be a sad day if they ever get pulled off. It will be detrimental to the sport.

Who finished 19th and what was the main sponsor on his bike?
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13
Radical
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San Diego, CA US
3/30/2025 1:18am

Complain all you want, but lappers are some of the best in the world.  Part of winning the race is how you deal with passing slower riders.

I would love to be as fast as the slowest lapper!!  (I'd love even more to be as fast as the winner)

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The Shop

CPR
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AU
3/30/2025 1:30am

 When you go 2 laps down then you should be removed from the race.

So say next round, Webb or Sexton crash off the start, take a while to get going and get lapped. 
You’re saying they should be removed from the race and denied the opportunity to race back into the top ten and score valuable points? Your rule would destroy championships.

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1
3/30/2025 1:32am
Boomslang wrote:
Lappers in the main have earned their right to be there. Back markers can be a advantage or disadvantage. A savvy rider can use them to...

Lappers in the main have earned their right to be there. Back markers can be a advantage or disadvantage. A savvy rider can use them to gain an advantage.

Nevertheless, they paid their money, they qualified so they race. The little airtime they get is good for their sponsors....it will be a sad day if they ever get pulled off. It will be detrimental to the sport.

Who finished 19th and what was the main sponsor on his bike?

No idea as I'm on a sofa in Cape Town, South Africa.

 

19th. Kevin Moranz and Brad West and I bet you their sponsors and all the folk who invest in them are stoked that they were in the main. Spectators would have seen their bikes in the pits with all their branding. 

Stav Orland 18th is sponsored by BAR Aviation which is located in Kampala, Uganda. They service countries North of South Africa and if I ever need to charter, or know of someone wanting to charter a fixed wing or rotor wing I'd recommend BAR. Why? Because they give to our sport. 

Anyways, lappers will always be part of the event.

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1
64smoker
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Ramsgate GB
3/30/2025 2:27am

Percentage rule , 2 laps below that margin your out , makes is safer a better watch on to and better racing , that looked like a circus last night  

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9
3/30/2025 2:33am

If you get lapped twice, you get pulled. Simple. One lap down fine, twice youre just circulating now.

Simple really

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9
Donovan759
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Pittsburgh, PA US
3/30/2025 4:16am

Totally agree with the OP.  They know when the leaders are coming.  After the second time, they need to pull off the track.  They can enforce it by reviewing tape after the race.  No need to have officials designated to black flagging people off the track. If you don’t pull off within a lap, it will be reviewed and you get fined. 

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12
Polski934
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Location
Berkley, MI US
3/30/2025 4:17am

Lappers wouldn’t be near as bad if the lap times were not in the 40s, but they are so against slowing the tracks down (and bikes) they need to leave a lot of space for the Astars medical UTV to cart the broken bodies off the track. 

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1
3/30/2025 4:27am

I don't have much to contribute towards a discussion on a fix for the lappers problem. I thought they did a pretty good job getting out of the way last night though

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ge217
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Vero Beach, FL US
3/30/2025 6:02am
Boomslang wrote:
Lappers in the main have earned their right to be there. Back markers can be a advantage or disadvantage. A savvy rider can use them to...

Lappers in the main have earned their right to be there. Back markers can be a advantage or disadvantage. A savvy rider can use them to gain an advantage.

Nevertheless, they paid their money, they qualified so they race. The little airtime they get is good for their sponsors....it will be a sad day if they ever get pulled off. It will be detrimental to the sport.

Who finished 19th and what was the main sponsor on his bike?
Boomslang wrote:
No idea as I'm on a sofa in Cape Town, South Africa. 19th. Kevin Moranz and Brad West and I bet you their sponsors and all the...

No idea as I'm on a sofa in Cape Town, South Africa.

 

19th. Kevin Moranz and Brad West and I bet you their sponsors and all the folk who invest in them are stoked that they were in the main. Spectators would have seen their bikes in the pits with all their branding. 

Stav Orland 18th is sponsored by BAR Aviation which is located in Kampala, Uganda. They service countries North of South Africa and if I ever need to charter, or know of someone wanting to charter a fixed wing or rotor wing I'd recommend BAR. Why? Because they give to our sport. 

Anyways, lappers will always be part of the event.

Moranz title sponsor was probably there and drove the rig there (owns race rig). At least the guy did a few times last year. 

theraptur712
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Victoria, TX US
3/30/2025 6:31am
Donovan759 wrote:
Totally agree with the OP.  They know when the leaders are coming.  After the second time, they need to pull off the track.  They can enforce...

Totally agree with the OP.  They know when the leaders are coming.  After the second time, they need to pull off the track.  They can enforce it by reviewing tape after the race.  No need to have officials designated to black flagging people off the track. If you don’t pull off within a lap, it will be reviewed and you get fined. 

Yeah dumbass, let's fine the riders that have the least $$$ and can barely make all the races.

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lappedrider
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Tooele, UT US
3/30/2025 6:47am

Pulling them off means only the leader will have to deal with them.  Giving everyone else an advantage.  Leave it as is, it’s part of racing.  

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CDA331
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3/30/2025 7:47am
I don't have much to contribute towards a discussion on a fix for the lappers problem. I thought they did a pretty good job getting out...

I don't have much to contribute towards a discussion on a fix for the lappers problem. I thought they did a pretty good job getting out of the way last night though

It’s not just about getting out of the way, it’s continuing to chew the track up with 22 bikes. If you get lapped twice, you absolutely should be out of the race and something no one mentions, by the time you’re getting lapped twice, most of the race is done anyway so Moranz isn’t missing much. 

I’ve just always been an advocate of less dudes out there. I love the privateers and all that for sure, but I just wish we had some sort of super main event at the end of the night with just the top 5 or 10 lol idk I just hate when a start can screw up the entire night for a battle between championship leaders. 

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4
3/30/2025 8:44am

I thought the lappers did really well last night properly giving way to the leaders.  No complaints whatsoever.  

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1
Magoofan
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3/30/2025 8:51am
Boomslang wrote:
Lappers in the main have earned their right to be there. Back markers can be a advantage or disadvantage. A savvy rider can use them to...

Lappers in the main have earned their right to be there. Back markers can be a advantage or disadvantage. A savvy rider can use them to gain an advantage.

Nevertheless, they paid their money, they qualified so they race. The little airtime they get is good for their sponsors....it will be a sad day if they ever get pulled off. It will be detrimental to the sport.

Stop using logic man....   this is Vital

😎

 

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8
Nairb#70
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Ivoryton, CT US
3/30/2025 9:03am

If you get lapped twice, you get pulled. Simple. One lap down fine, twice youre just circulating now.

Simple really

I agree, once is okay, but twice you're done.

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3
Park Boys
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Location
MH US
3/30/2025 9:16am
Boomslang wrote:
Lappers in the main have earned their right to be there. Back markers can be a advantage or disadvantage. A savvy rider can use them to...

Lappers in the main have earned their right to be there. Back markers can be a advantage or disadvantage. A savvy rider can use them to gain an advantage.

Nevertheless, they paid their money, they qualified so they race. The little airtime they get is good for their sponsors....it will be a sad day if they ever get pulled off. It will be detrimental to the sport.

Seems like people think if you get lapped once you should pull off, I don’t agree with that. But if in 18 minutes you have been lapped twice you are damn near a safety violation. I understand injuries and a rough track make this a bigger issue then it normally is but what are the draw backs of getting pulled out of what is basically a sprint race after being lapped twice? You will still get your points, you still made the main event and in real foul weather situations your saving wear and tear on the machine. 

Perhaps for Motocross once you have been lapped three times you’re done. 

Explain how pulling a Starling off or who ever after being lapped by the leaders for a second time would be “detrimental to the sport” 

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2
64smoker
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Ramsgate GB
3/30/2025 9:28am

Exactly , It would be good to hear from the riders to if I was getting lapped for the second time and circulating on a messed up track in survival mode I think I’d rather take my cheque and get of the track 

1
jjavaman
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CA
3/30/2025 9:44am
Boomslang wrote:
Lappers in the main have earned their right to be there. Back markers can be a advantage or disadvantage. A savvy rider can use them to...

Lappers in the main have earned their right to be there. Back markers can be a advantage or disadvantage. A savvy rider can use them to gain an advantage.

Nevertheless, they paid their money, they qualified so they race. The little airtime they get is good for their sponsors....it will be a sad day if they ever get pulled off. It will be detrimental to the sport.

Who finished 19th and what was the main sponsor on his bike?

Who finished 9th and what was he riding?

Renner153
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Location
Mulberry, FL US
3/30/2025 10:20am
Boomslang wrote:
Lappers in the main have earned their right to be there. Back markers can be a advantage or disadvantage. A savvy rider can use them to...

Lappers in the main have earned their right to be there. Back markers can be a advantage or disadvantage. A savvy rider can use them to gain an advantage.

Nevertheless, they paid their money, they qualified so they race. The little airtime they get is good for their sponsors....it will be a sad day if they ever get pulled off. It will be detrimental to the sport.

Who finished 19th and what was the main sponsor on his bike?
Boomslang wrote:
No idea as I'm on a sofa in Cape Town, South Africa. 19th. Kevin Moranz and Brad West and I bet you their sponsors and all the...

No idea as I'm on a sofa in Cape Town, South Africa.

 

19th. Kevin Moranz and Brad West and I bet you their sponsors and all the folk who invest in them are stoked that they were in the main. Spectators would have seen their bikes in the pits with all their branding. 

Stav Orland 18th is sponsored by BAR Aviation which is located in Kampala, Uganda. They service countries North of South Africa and if I ever need to charter, or know of someone wanting to charter a fixed wing or rotor wing I'd recommend BAR. Why? Because they give to our sport. 

Anyways, lappers will always be part of the event.

To be fair, the fans have already seen the bikes in the pits, the riders already made the main. The sponsors already seen it, so them being pulled off after being two laps down isn’t gonna affect any of that. 

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2
MPJC
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Fantasy
3/30/2025 10:51am

What are a lapper’s obligations according to the rules? I take it that they are, roughly, to observe the blue flags, and when there is a blue flag, to give way to the leaders (whether that be getting out of the main racing line, or at the very least, holding your line). Also, if it’s not stated outright, it’s certainly implied that they shouldn’t try to race the leaders - or even worse, they shouldn’t try to block one to give another an advantage. 

Did anyone last night violate any of the above obligations (or some other obligation I missed)? If yes, then in those instances, perhaps some sort of sanction is warranted. But there seems to be more being complained about. It could be that in addition to the strict, rule based obligations, there are looser norms of etiquette that lappers may violate. You may not be required to move completely out of the way but it would be polite or appreciated. If we think there are some such weaker obligations, we can be annoyed if lappers don’t comply with them but nobody can really do anything about it (other than complaining and  feeling and expressing displeasure) as long as the rules stay as they are. Furthermore, if they don’t comply, we may feel justified in complaining and expressing displeasure. What we may really want is for them to ride in a way that allows the race to proceed as if they weren’t there  

What it seems to me is that some posters here are of the mindset that if they are feeling justified in feeling displeased, something has gone wrong since they are entitled to not feel displeased. Given that, if the existence of lappers causes them to be displeased, then lappers must have no right to exist. We want the race to proceed as if they weren’t there, but since that tends to not happen, we should make it the case that they actually aren’t there. 

This makes sense of the call to eliminate lappers even if, as far as the rules go, they haven’t done anything wrong. But I’d question the idea that we have a right to not feel displeased. In other words, you may not like it, but that’s just too damned bad. Is this idea that lappers should be black flagged grounded in something more than a “they displease me” sentiment? Perhaps I’m missing something but if I’m right, the justification for black flagging them seems almost childish. Or maybe our displeasure really is all we need? But does that violate some obligation to the lapper, who eared the right to be there? If so, does that obligation trump the viewers’ displeasure?

if it’s not obvious, I’m on the “you may not like it but that’s too bad “ side. I think lappers eared the right to race, even if it’s a lap or 2 down, as long as they follow the rules for lappers. 

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the1casey
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Eastvale, CA US
3/30/2025 11:52am
Park Boys wrote:
Getting laped is part of the race, but once you have been laped twice it’s time to get out of the race. I don’t pretend to...

Getting laped is part of the race, but once you have been laped twice it’s time to get out of the race. I don’t pretend to know the best way to pull the guys out but they need to go. 

I think the lappers add a ton of nuance to the race.  More obstacles to overcome.  I would never pull them off the track.

3
1
Donovan759
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3/30/2025 1:07pm
Donovan759 wrote:
Totally agree with the OP.  They know when the leaders are coming.  After the second time, they need to pull off the track.  They can enforce...

Totally agree with the OP.  They know when the leaders are coming.  After the second time, they need to pull off the track.  They can enforce it by reviewing tape after the race.  No need to have officials designated to black flagging people off the track. If you don’t pull off within a lap, it will be reviewed and you get fined. 

Yeah dumbass, let's fine the riders that have the least $$$ and can barely make all the races.

My bad bro.  I forgot about how privateers get a free pass from fines and point docks when they don’t follow rules.  Big brain thinking going on in your head I see. 

1
1
MPJC
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2020
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CA
Fantasy
3/30/2025 1:22pm
Donovan759 wrote:
Totally agree with the OP.  They know when the leaders are coming.  After the second time, they need to pull off the track.  They can enforce...

Totally agree with the OP.  They know when the leaders are coming.  After the second time, they need to pull off the track.  They can enforce it by reviewing tape after the race.  No need to have officials designated to black flagging people off the track. If you don’t pull off within a lap, it will be reviewed and you get fined. 

Yeah dumbass, let's fine the riders that have the least $$$ and can barely make all the races.

Donovan759 wrote:
My bad bro.  I forgot about how privateers get a free pass from fines and point docks when they don’t follow rules.  Big brain thinking going...

My bad bro.  I forgot about how privateers get a free pass from fines and point docks when they don’t follow rules.  Big brain thinking going on in your head I see. 

I don’t think he’s saying that the rules shouldn’t apply to privateers. He seems to be saying that a rule of the sort you propose would be disproportionately punitive to those who can afford it least. 

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Radical
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San Diego, CA US
3/30/2025 1:26pm

 When you go 2 laps down then you should be removed from the race.

CPR wrote:
So say next round, Webb or Sexton crash off the start, take a while to get going and get lapped. You’re saying they should be removed from...

So say next round, Webb or Sexton crash off the start, take a while to get going and get lapped. 
You’re saying they should be removed from the race and denied the opportunity to race back into the top ten and score valuable points? Your rule would destroy championships.

I remember watching James Stewart un-lap himself, then start passing his way to a better result.

3/30/2025 1:39pm
Boomslang wrote:
Lappers in the main have earned their right to be there. Back markers can be a advantage or disadvantage. A savvy rider can use them to...

Lappers in the main have earned their right to be there. Back markers can be a advantage or disadvantage. A savvy rider can use them to gain an advantage.

Nevertheless, they paid their money, they qualified so they race. The little airtime they get is good for their sponsors....it will be a sad day if they ever get pulled off. It will be detrimental to the sport.

Who finished 19th and what was the main sponsor on his bike?
Boomslang wrote:
No idea as I'm on a sofa in Cape Town, South Africa. 19th. Kevin Moranz and Brad West and I bet you their sponsors and all the...

No idea as I'm on a sofa in Cape Town, South Africa.

 

19th. Kevin Moranz and Brad West and I bet you their sponsors and all the folk who invest in them are stoked that they were in the main. Spectators would have seen their bikes in the pits with all their branding. 

Stav Orland 18th is sponsored by BAR Aviation which is located in Kampala, Uganda. They service countries North of South Africa and if I ever need to charter, or know of someone wanting to charter a fixed wing or rotor wing I'd recommend BAR. Why? Because they give to our sport. 

Anyways, lappers will always be part of the event.

Yeh it's impossible to remember or see but that's my point. 

I 'm going to retract my statement about being lapped once. Lapped twice though as someone mentioned your just circulating. Maybe a percentage of the lead riders time be installed.

What about this to help. All riders on the lead lap have the light (green leaders light) shine blue. 

Stav Orland was our rider of the night. What a cool story.

1
3/30/2025 2:40pm
Boomslang wrote:
Lappers in the main have earned their right to be there. Back markers can be a advantage or disadvantage. A savvy rider can use them to...

Lappers in the main have earned their right to be there. Back markers can be a advantage or disadvantage. A savvy rider can use them to gain an advantage.

Nevertheless, they paid their money, they qualified so they race. The little airtime they get is good for their sponsors....it will be a sad day if they ever get pulled off. It will be detrimental to the sport.

Who finished 19th and what was the main sponsor on his bike?
jjavaman wrote:

Who finished 9th and what was he riding?

Benny Bloss on the liqui moly Beta. Best finish of the season after injury. Was up at 7th at one point.

lumpy790
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11283
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Location
York, SC US
3/30/2025 2:55pm
Who finished 19th and what was the main sponsor on his bike?
Boomslang wrote:
No idea as I'm on a sofa in Cape Town, South Africa. 19th. Kevin Moranz and Brad West and I bet you their sponsors and all the...

No idea as I'm on a sofa in Cape Town, South Africa.

 

19th. Kevin Moranz and Brad West and I bet you their sponsors and all the folk who invest in them are stoked that they were in the main. Spectators would have seen their bikes in the pits with all their branding. 

Stav Orland 18th is sponsored by BAR Aviation which is located in Kampala, Uganda. They service countries North of South Africa and if I ever need to charter, or know of someone wanting to charter a fixed wing or rotor wing I'd recommend BAR. Why? Because they give to our sport. 

Anyways, lappers will always be part of the event.

Yeh it's impossible to remember or see but that's my point. I 'm going to retract my statement about being lapped once. Lapped twice though as someone...

Yeh it's impossible to remember or see but that's my point. 

I 'm going to retract my statement about being lapped once. Lapped twice though as someone mentioned your just circulating. Maybe a percentage of the lead riders time be installed.

What about this to help. All riders on the lead lap have the light (green leaders light) shine blue. 

Stav Orland was our rider of the night. What a cool story.

Even the top contenders crash more than once in a race and lapped twice.

Every single point counts at the end of the year for number plates, championships and playoffs too. 

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