Another horrible take from Catanzaro

LungButter
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I wish I knew how to link it, does this guy just say stupid/controversial shit to make himself get clicks and stay relevant?

He said "I think riding in the woods is more dangerous than motocross.  There are way more variables and way more things that can go wrong."

Yeah AJ....let's take a look at how many ambulance rides there are at moto races and how many there are from off road races.  It's not even close.  It's a BIG deal typically when someone leaves an off road race in an ambulance, it's an every weekend occurrence for moto races 

@Hammer 663s just posted about more ambulance rides from one moto race at Hangtown than I see going to 20+ off road events a year.

AJ can't possibly be stupid enough to believe what he said right?

Rant over.

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sorbee
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3/6/2025 10:59am

So what?  Just don't watch it and that's it...
Personally I agree with him. Here in France at least, people who ride the woods are mostly beginners with little to no technique, with old bikes, no maintenance, no gear, etc.
Also 95% of the forests are private land, so as the owners get more and more pissed, they tend to put obstacles or barbed wire everywhere, which is dangerous af!
I won't even talk about trees falling everywhere with the wind and the lack of maintenance of the forests.

Motocross tracks are closed properties, where you need a license, an insurance and equipment. Most people know how to ride safely.
Sorry bud but that's day and night for me.

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3strokemx
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3/6/2025 11:00am

If you get hurt in the woods they just leave you there, no need for an ambulance.

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3/6/2025 11:02am Edited Date/Time 3/6/2025 11:02am

I think it's a matter of perspective and experience. I grew up on moto tracks, and some supercross, and riding through the woods 3rd gear pinned ABSOLUTELY scares the living hell out of me more than any jump or rutted downhill.

That being said, AJ is a completely self-unaware narcissist. But hey, he would be champion on Jetts bike, so who are we to disagree with him. 

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Heavyhitter
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3/6/2025 11:03am

I think in part he is right, there is a lot more variables in the woods than the track. In theory if you get a few laps in on say burnt ridge and feel comfy you should be fine if you can keep your head on straight. 

In the woods a trail you rode last week may have a washout, more exposed rocks, a log or exposed roots up a hill that would take both tires and throw them to third base. Impact wise I would say definitely motocross track has more risk, but the woods are just more of an unknown. I have gotten hurt riding woods more than my buddies tracks just because of that one damn rock that roll out of the side of the will that was not there before we went and ate lunch at the truck or the rain didn't fully dry up and I misjudged how greasy the off camber rooted up hill corner was and sent myself on a exploration off trail. lol

I have hurt myself doing wheelies in the yard on my TTR125, I think it all has a risk thats just part of the deal.

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The Shop

Ramrod
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3/6/2025 11:04am

If a person crashes in the woods, does it make a sound? 

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Johnny Ringo
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3/6/2025 11:05am

I do see his point. Faster speeds, big rocks, trees, ambulance/medics farther away. Maybe the frequency of crashes is less in off-road but I feel like the potential severity is higher (even just marginally)?? 

But I don’t know if this actually reflects reality, you usually do see less meat wagon rides at off-road races for sure

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LungButter
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3/6/2025 11:05am
sorbee wrote:
So what?  Just don't watch it and that's it...Personally I agree with him. Here in France at least, people who ride the woods are mostly beginners...

So what?  Just don't watch it and that's it...
Personally I agree with him. Here in France at least, people who ride the woods are mostly beginners with little to no technique, with old bikes, no maintenance, no gear, etc.
Also 95% of the forests are private land, so as the owners get more and more pissed, they tend to put obstacles or barbed wire everywhere, which is dangerous af!
I won't even talk about trees falling everywhere with the wind and the lack of maintenance of the forests.

Motocross tracks are closed properties, where you need a license, an insurance and equipment. Most people know how to ride safely.
Sorry bud but that's day and night for me.

Sorry, but your take is completely irrelevant and wrong.  I'm not talking about trespassers in France that get hurt by booby traps.

You also clearly have NO CLUE how much off road racing heritage France has.  

But thanks for joining in.

 

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USA
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Screenshot 20250306 125704 Chrome%281%29.jpg?VersionId=KVf
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LungButter
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3/6/2025 11:09am
USA wrote:
Screenshot 20250306 125704 Chrome%281%29.jpg?VersionId=KVf

Oh you got me so good.

Do you feel better now?

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Hammer 663s
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3/6/2025 11:12am

I don't ride woods at all, just cause I like moto. In the OHV areas near me there are WAY too many people on UTVs, drinking beer and shooting guns, for me to feel safe (oh I like guns, just not in OTHER people's hands!). And I don't think I'd enjoy the technicality of PNW woods - it's always wet and slick in there with so many ways to crash. With moto I usually know what I'm getting for track prep, I can see ahead of me, and if I don't feel it I can just pack up and not ride. 

I ride street too and that has its own hazards and minefields. I'm pretty cautious out there and I avoid city traffic, period. I only ride out in the countryside on nice days. I'm old and I got nuthin to prove to anyone about how tough I am. Smile

Any form of motorcycle riding is dangerous. The more goons, beginners, and drunks there are the worse it is. Dunes? Oh hell no........

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sorbee
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3/6/2025 11:13am Edited Date/Time 3/6/2025 11:22am
sorbee wrote:
So what?  Just don't watch it and that's it...Personally I agree with him. Here in France at least, people who ride the woods are mostly beginners...

So what?  Just don't watch it and that's it...
Personally I agree with him. Here in France at least, people who ride the woods are mostly beginners with little to no technique, with old bikes, no maintenance, no gear, etc.
Also 95% of the forests are private land, so as the owners get more and more pissed, they tend to put obstacles or barbed wire everywhere, which is dangerous af!
I won't even talk about trees falling everywhere with the wind and the lack of maintenance of the forests.

Motocross tracks are closed properties, where you need a license, an insurance and equipment. Most people know how to ride safely.
Sorry bud but that's day and night for me.

LungButter wrote:
Sorry, but your take is completely irrelevant and wrong.  I'm not talking about trespassers in France that get hurt by booby traps.You also clearly have NO...

Sorry, but your take is completely irrelevant and wrong.  I'm not talking about trespassers in France that get hurt by booby traps.

You also clearly have NO CLUE how much off road racing heritage France has.  

But thanks for joining in.

 

You didn't get my point but whatever, you seem to be upset so be it.
And you live and were born in my country so you might know better what heritage France has with off road racing, not woods and trail racing..

To end it up you know what, go ask insurance brokers. They have statistics and they'll tell you that you're completely wrong.

edit: And so you know, Le Touquet, Le Trefle Lozerien, L'Aveyronnaise, etc.. have nothing to do with woods racing.
Le Touquet is on a beach, and the 'classiques' are timed races in pastures... ok they take some trails but that's definitely not the point AJ was trying to mention. I think USA is right about the fact that you're looking for something to be outraged about.

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LungButter
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3/6/2025 11:17am
sorbee wrote:
You didn't get my point but whatever, you seem to be upset so be it.And you live and were born in my country so you might...

You didn't get my point but whatever, you seem to be upset so be it.
And you live and were born in my country so you might know better what heritage France has with off road racing, not woods and trail racing..

To end it up you know what, go ask insurance brokers. They have statistics and they'll tell you that you're completely wrong.

edit: And so you know, Le Touquet, Le Trefle Lozerien, L'Aveyronnaise, etc.. have nothing to do with woods racing.
Le Touquet is on a beach, and the 'classiques' are timed races in pastures... ok they take some trails but that's definitely not the point AJ was trying to mention. I think USA is right about the fact that you're looking for something to be outraged about.

Show me some data that says I'm completely wrong then.

I've been to hundreds of races in my life both off road and motocross.  It's not even comparable how many more people get hurt at moto races and to add even more irony, most the time off road races have bigger turn outs too.  So more people riding and less injuries.

And no, I didn't get your point because you talked about trespassers getting hurt by booby traps, that's completely irrelevant to the conversation.

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budlong802
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3/6/2025 11:21am
Ramrod wrote:

If a person crashes in the woods, does it make a sound? 

Only if a tree falls...I think

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Deadric
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3/6/2025 11:22am Edited Date/Time 3/6/2025 11:23am

I honestly agree with him. I've done 3 hare scrambles in my life and watching the AA guys go through things at the speed they do blows my mind. As someone that spends 99% of his riding on a motocross track I'll say trees scare me more than any motocross jump ever has. The last one I did I was on lap three and came across pretty much an entire yamaha worth of parts next to the tree they hit.

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3/6/2025 11:30am

I will say when I went back to moto after riding in the woods, there was some consolation in help always being close by and easy access for them to get to you. 

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Moto Nomad
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3/6/2025 11:36am

I don't think he was comparing off-road racing and MX. I think he's talking about the fact that you can go head-on with people (I have done it) or ride off a cliff or something, while an MX tracks is a more controlled environment. I think he has a point. Glamis always looks crazy, for instance, with people riding all kinds of different directions. At least on an MX track everyone is going in the right direction and there is usually medical care close by.

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jjavaman
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3/6/2025 11:37am

 I cracked my pelvis in 5 places and broke my right thumb 20+ km from the truck, if I’d been on a track it would’ve definitely been an ambulance ride, instead it was a slow painful ride back to the truck and then a 2 hour drive home.

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AMetts
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3/6/2025 11:38am

I have heard of way more life altering injuries from moto than woods, its the jumps that are the issue. There is just so much energy when you are falling from the sky. I much rather slam my body into a tree than bail in the air off a big jump much less chance for spinal injuries. 

I race east coast woods probably 20 times a year and I can only remember a couple times I heard of an injury and it was usually a broken leg or something somewhat common. If you are super close to trees like that you aren't going 40mph its going to be tighter and force you to slow down. 

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mx317
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3/6/2025 11:43am
Ramrod wrote:

If a person crashes in the woods, does it make a sound? 

Only if someone is around.

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Heavyhitter
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3/6/2025 11:49am
Ramrod wrote:

If a person crashes in the woods, does it make a sound? 

Its only when I'm waiting and don't hear a sound I start to wonder, wait 30 seconds and then go back and see what happened.

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429 Sterling
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3/6/2025 11:51am Edited Date/Time 3/6/2025 11:56am

I actually agree with him on this. I’ve never seen someone die at an mx track, but personally witnessed 2 separate people die woods riding. I’ve seen more injuries at southwick when they run j day races in the woods than when they run normal mx races. I believe a young man lost his life hitting a tree there last year. One tree, one loose rock, one low hanging branch and it’s all over in the woods.

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3strokemx
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3/6/2025 11:55am
I actually agree with him on this. I’ve never seen someone die at an mx track, but personally witnessed 2 separate people die woods riding. I’ve...

I actually agree with him on this. I’ve never seen someone die at an mx track, but personally witnessed 2 separate people die woods riding. I’ve seen more injuries at southwick when they run j day races in the woods than when they run normal mx races. I believe a young man lost his life hitting a tree there last year. One tree, one loose rock, one low hanging branch and it’s all over in the woods.

What year did they do a GNCC at Southwick?

429 Sterling
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3/6/2025 11:56am
I actually agree with him on this. I’ve never seen someone die at an mx track, but personally witnessed 2 separate people die woods riding. I’ve...

I actually agree with him on this. I’ve never seen someone die at an mx track, but personally witnessed 2 separate people die woods riding. I’ve seen more injuries at southwick when they run j day races in the woods than when they run normal mx races. I believe a young man lost his life hitting a tree there last year. One tree, one loose rock, one low hanging branch and it’s all over in the woods.

3strokemx wrote:

What year did they do a GNCC at Southwick?

I meant j day. I got them mixed up.

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3strokemx
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3/6/2025 12:04pm

If a controlled track, proximity to EMS, or being exclusive to people with special equipment (Like Sorby says), are the reasons why MX is safer than Woods...............

Then why is Flat Track more dangerous than both woods and MX? 

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Tumic
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3/6/2025 12:06pm
LungButter wrote:
Show me some data that says I'm completely wrong then.I've been to hundreds of races in my life both off road and motocross.  It's not even...

Show me some data that says I'm completely wrong then.

I've been to hundreds of races in my life both off road and motocross.  It's not even comparable how many more people get hurt at moto races and to add even more irony, most the time off road races have bigger turn outs too.  So more people riding and less injuries.

And no, I didn't get your point because you talked about trespassers getting hurt by booby traps, that's completely irrelevant to the conversation.

By now you know my racing history, and there is/was a reason behind the enduro test at the WEC and European championship rounds were un-timed the first lap of the day when I rode back in 07/08/09, while the motocross and extreme tests were timed. 

They did not want the riders to go flat out at the enduro test because of the risk so we all could just roll through that one on the first lap and on the second lap it was timed like all the other tests.

The margin for error is much smaller in the woods than on a MX track so I can see what AJ is going at.

If we want to take it really far I can’t remember when a top tier SX rider died the last time, but I remember the last time a enduro world champion did.

 

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shortty761
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3/6/2025 12:20pm

idk man, i ride woods and moto, preferebly moto, but I can see where someone can think woods is more dangerous. If something goes wrong when youre going fast and you smack a tree at 50mph youre in big trouble.

But at the end of the day, its all dangerous, and statistically mtb is more dangerous, and some of us will get hurt/die doing everyday things so might as well ride what makes you happy 😎

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MPJC
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3/6/2025 12:27pm

I agree with him. Everyone is going the same direction on a moto track, not so on trails (public trails for everyone's use  - not talking off road racing). You have no idea what's around the corner. I've come around a corner and there's a tree that's fallen.  There's wild animals (and in one case, a farmer's cow that had gotten out that my buddy almost hit). Deer are fucking stupid and will run right in front of you. Once had to go way around a badger. Not to mention being in the middle of nowhere. I've never been lost on a moto track but I've been in the bush wondering how the hell to get back to the truck. In rural Saskatchewan you may not have cell service so your phone may not help you. 

My last injury was in the woods. Came around a corner and there was a dip with a weirdly aligned rut that I hit wrong and lawn darted myself into the dirt shoulder first. Was lucky to not hit a tree. Shoulder hurt like crazy but just got back on the bike and rode back to the truck. 

I can cruise around a moto track at a comfortable pace and just head to the truck when I get tired. I'm  much less nervous there.

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LungButter
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3/6/2025 12:48pm
MPJC wrote:
I agree with him. Everyone is going the same direction on a moto track, not so on trails (public trails for everyone's use  - not talking...

I agree with him. Everyone is going the same direction on a moto track, not so on trails (public trails for everyone's use  - not talking off road racing). You have no idea what's around the corner. I've come around a corner and there's a tree that's fallen.  There's wild animals (and in one case, a farmer's cow that had gotten out that my buddy almost hit). Deer are fucking stupid and will run right in front of you. Once had to go way around a badger. Not to mention being in the middle of nowhere. I've never been lost on a moto track but I've been in the bush wondering how the hell to get back to the truck. In rural Saskatchewan you may not have cell service so your phone may not help you. 

My last injury was in the woods. Came around a corner and there was a dip with a weirdly aligned rut that I hit wrong and lawn darted myself into the dirt shoulder first. Was lucky to not hit a tree. Shoulder hurt like crazy but just got back on the bike and rode back to the truck. 

I can cruise around a moto track at a comfortable pace and just head to the truck when I get tired. I'm  much less nervous there.

So wild animals in the woods are dangerous but other riders on a moto track aren't?  Got it.

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MPJC
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3/6/2025 12:56pm
MPJC wrote:
I agree with him. Everyone is going the same direction on a moto track, not so on trails (public trails for everyone's use  - not talking...

I agree with him. Everyone is going the same direction on a moto track, not so on trails (public trails for everyone's use  - not talking off road racing). You have no idea what's around the corner. I've come around a corner and there's a tree that's fallen.  There's wild animals (and in one case, a farmer's cow that had gotten out that my buddy almost hit). Deer are fucking stupid and will run right in front of you. Once had to go way around a badger. Not to mention being in the middle of nowhere. I've never been lost on a moto track but I've been in the bush wondering how the hell to get back to the truck. In rural Saskatchewan you may not have cell service so your phone may not help you. 

My last injury was in the woods. Came around a corner and there was a dip with a weirdly aligned rut that I hit wrong and lawn darted myself into the dirt shoulder first. Was lucky to not hit a tree. Shoulder hurt like crazy but just got back on the bike and rode back to the truck. 

I can cruise around a moto track at a comfortable pace and just head to the truck when I get tired. I'm  much less nervous there.

LungButter wrote:

So wild animals in the woods are dangerous but other riders on a moto track aren't?  Got it.

I don't follow. Why would one being dangerous imply anything about the other? It's just a hazard that typically is absent on a moto track. 

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Farmer J
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3/6/2025 1:09pm

Well there's a lot of unknowns in the woods vs a moto track so he's right. I had 2 friends both A class that did one woods race each. Both injurys were at gncc races. The first one got destroyed on a rock broken collar bone and beat apart. He raced for a long time and only 1 previous racing injury was stitches from landing on me many years before this. The other tore his acl. I can't remember any injurys from him in 15+ years of racing moto at a national level. So I think his point is pretty valid. 

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