No more jumps before whoops?

Kyzer138
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Was listening to the vital pod yesterday and Darkside mentioned they are no longer putting jumps in front of whoops sections.

At what point do we just turn this into a turn-track series? 

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aees
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Kyzer138 wrote:
Was listening to the vital pod yesterday and Darkside mentioned they are no longer putting jumps in front of whoops sections.At what point do we just...

Was listening to the vital pod yesterday and Darkside mentioned they are no longer putting jumps in front of whoops sections.

At what point do we just turn this into a turn-track series? 

To much speed going into whoops I assume when you properly downside the landing?

But could also be opportunity. You could do a steep double right after/at the exit of a corner so that on the inside you can land it properly and downside it while on the outer line you would flat land if you tried to carry speed. 

That triple that Mookie and some more killed it in with massive speed into jumps I can understand they want no part of. 

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-MAVERICK-
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2/27/2025 8:21am

Dragon's back: scrapped 

Long whoop section: scrapped 

Big whoops: scrapped

Jump before whoops: scrapped

Someone quads a section = tamed down or removed. 

What's next? 

IMO, removing passing spots in racing is stupid. These guys are the best in the world. Let them be challenged. 

Risk vs reward should be a thing. 

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USA
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2/27/2025 8:23am

I would love to join in the fury because i feel like it's sissy shit, but Pierce Brown broke his back the last time they put a jump before whoops 

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2/27/2025 8:24am

Feld/AMA/Dirt Wurx need to stop being pussies. Seriously. These are the best riders on the planet, if something is sketchy, they won't jump it. That's what separates good riders from great riders. Go look at the tracks from 2000-2005. Whoops with jumps in the middle of them almost every week, & no problems. I always talk about 2003 Pontiac Supercross. "The rhythm buster" jump at the end of the whoops was a wall and you launched a 25ft double from it. I think its still the craziest small jump they've had in supercross and the top guys were sending it just fine. The guys who didn't want to DIDN'T. Its very simple.

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The Shop

500 Mike
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2/27/2025 8:26am

Gentleman….. it’s a show, not a race. 

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aees
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2/27/2025 8:34am
USA wrote:
I would love to join in the fury because i feel like it's sissy shit, but Pierce Brown broke his back the last time they put...

I would love to join in the fury because i feel like it's sissy shit, but Pierce Brown broke his back the last time they put a jump before whoops 

I like that they are taking some kind of actions if they have an idea or data that back it up. 

The mentality of "this is one of the toughest sport in the world, it should take people out" belongs to the 80s somewhere. Bikes are faster then ever, suspension and chassis better. There is no more lime to hold tracks together. More laps done. 

Look at a SX race from 2000, looks like they are standing still on the track compared to today. 

If we would add all elements in, we are probably down a top guy or more in addition to everyone out. No one wants to see that. Simpler tracks lead to better racing. 

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disbanded
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2/27/2025 8:35am

Are there stats to support this, or are they just throwing shit at the wall to see if it works?

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Meee
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2/27/2025 8:36am
USA wrote:
I would love to join in the fury because i feel like it's sissy shit, but Pierce Brown broke his back the last time they put...

I would love to join in the fury because i feel like it's sissy shit, but Pierce Brown broke his back the last time they put a jump before whoops 

smitty just broke some ribs this past week with no jump leading into the whoops so,,, i think shit happens its just how racing goes

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USA
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2/27/2025 8:40am
USA wrote:
I would love to join in the fury because i feel like it's sissy shit, but Pierce Brown broke his back the last time they put...

I would love to join in the fury because i feel like it's sissy shit, but Pierce Brown broke his back the last time they put a jump before whoops 

Meee wrote:

smitty just broke some ribs this past week with no jump leading into the whoops so,,, i think shit happens its just how racing goes

Yep, that's a great example of how whoops are still challenging and separators without a jump before them. 

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Kyzer138
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2/27/2025 8:40am
USA wrote:
I would love to join in the fury because i feel like it's sissy shit, but Pierce Brown broke his back the last time they put...

I would love to join in the fury because i feel like it's sissy shit, but Pierce Brown broke his back the last time they put a jump before whoops 

I don’t think the jump had anything to do with his crash, he was more than halfway through them, speed or no speed I feel like that would have happened 

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USA
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2/27/2025 8:43am
USA wrote:
I would love to join in the fury because i feel like it's sissy shit, but Pierce Brown broke his back the last time they put...

I would love to join in the fury because i feel like it's sissy shit, but Pierce Brown broke his back the last time they put a jump before whoops 

Kyzer138 wrote:
I don’t think the jump had anything to do with his crash, he was more than halfway through them, speed or no speed I feel like...

I don’t think the jump had anything to do with his crash, he was more than halfway through them, speed or no speed I feel like that would have happened 

That's a cool opinion based on the fact I posted. People ask for evidence and stats to support the decision and what happened in Tampa speaks for itself.

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truck
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2/27/2025 8:53am

Anecdote =/= data. If that's what this decision is being based on then the game is over. We lost. 

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Kyzer138
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USA wrote:
I would love to join in the fury because i feel like it's sissy shit, but Pierce Brown broke his back the last time they put...

I would love to join in the fury because i feel like it's sissy shit, but Pierce Brown broke his back the last time they put a jump before whoops 

Kyzer138 wrote:
I don’t think the jump had anything to do with his crash, he was more than halfway through them, speed or no speed I feel like...

I don’t think the jump had anything to do with his crash, he was more than halfway through them, speed or no speed I feel like that would have happened 

USA wrote:
That's a cool opinion based on the fact I posted. People ask for evidence and stats to support the decision and what happened in Tampa speaks...

That's a cool opinion based on the fact I posted. People ask for evidence and stats to support the decision and what happened in Tampa speaks for itself.

Didn’t he clip a tough block? I don’t think that has anything to do with speed. He got loose in the whoops just like Jordan Smith has done twice this year and gone down, jump or no jump. 

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dirtcan
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2/27/2025 8:59am

This whole making the track safer concept sounds good in theory, but in reality it doesn’t work too good. How many riders got hurt hitting a quad this year? And how many riders got hurt dabbing a foot this year? The next logical step seems to enforce feet on the pegs at all time.

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Meee
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2/27/2025 9:03am
USA wrote:
I would love to join in the fury because i feel like it's sissy shit, but Pierce Brown broke his back the last time they put...

I would love to join in the fury because i feel like it's sissy shit, but Pierce Brown broke his back the last time they put a jump before whoops 

Kyzer138 wrote:
I don’t think the jump had anything to do with his crash, he was more than halfway through them, speed or no speed I feel like...

I don’t think the jump had anything to do with his crash, he was more than halfway through them, speed or no speed I feel like that would have happened 

USA wrote:
That's a cool opinion based on the fact I posted. People ask for evidence and stats to support the decision and what happened in Tampa speaks...

That's a cool opinion based on the fact I posted. People ask for evidence and stats to support the decision and what happened in Tampa speaks for itself.

the fact is pierce went down in the whoops, your implication that the jumps prior had anything to do with that is just an opinion. no real stats or evidence that jumps before have any effect 

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Moto520
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2/27/2025 9:10am

It seems like the riders agree that the tracks need to be safer and they are working on it.  

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truck
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2/27/2025 9:52am

If the argument for quads is that they can't take the risk of someone getting landed on, I can buy that, but the rest of this stuff is nonsense. It's not the tracks that are dangerous, it's the going really fast on a dirt bike with nothing but a thin layer of nylon between your body and the sudden unexpected stops that's the problem.

Advances in safety equipment and slower bikes are only real answer but riders already don't use a lot of the currently available safety equipment and nobody has interest in slowing bikes down so dumbing down tracks is the new normal I guess. 

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Mr. Afterbar
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2/27/2025 10:06am
dirtcan wrote:
This whole making the track safer concept sounds good in theory, but in reality it doesn’t work too good. How many riders got hurt hitting a...

This whole making the track safer concept sounds good in theory, but in reality it doesn’t work too good. How many riders got hurt hitting a quad this year? And how many riders got hurt dabbing a foot this year? The next logical step seems to enforce feet on the pegs at all time.

The two biggest stars are out because of corners. No more corners. 

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Mr. Afterbar
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2/27/2025 10:09am
truck wrote:
If the argument for quads is that they can't take the risk of someone getting landed on, I can buy that, but the rest of this...

If the argument for quads is that they can't take the risk of someone getting landed on, I can buy that, but the rest of this stuff is nonsense. It's not the tracks that are dangerous, it's the going really fast on a dirt bike with nothing but a thin layer of nylon between your body and the sudden unexpected stops that's the problem.

Advances in safety equipment and slower bikes are only real answer but riders already don't use a lot of the currently available safety equipment and nobody has interest in slowing bikes down so dumbing down tracks is the new normal I guess. 

What safety gear would you like to see them use that they aren’t already? Helmets, boots, knee braces, under protectors. There’s not much of the body left to cover. Elbow guards and kidney belts? The only argument left for safety is that they wear full body protective suits which is not very feasible for the type of movements required to race SX. 

731chopper
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2/27/2025 10:22am
USA wrote:
I would love to join in the fury because i feel like it's sissy shit, but Pierce Brown broke his back the last time they put...

I would love to join in the fury because i feel like it's sissy shit, but Pierce Brown broke his back the last time they put a jump before whoops 

That’s a ridiculous thing to try to justify removing jumps before whoops with. This is a very dangerous sport and Supercross is the most extreme and highest level of it which is why it’s the most watched form. 

The rider chooses how much risk he wants to take. The obstacles aren’t making anyone crash. They aren’t booby traps. 

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truck
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2/27/2025 10:32am
truck wrote:
If the argument for quads is that they can't take the risk of someone getting landed on, I can buy that, but the rest of this...

If the argument for quads is that they can't take the risk of someone getting landed on, I can buy that, but the rest of this stuff is nonsense. It's not the tracks that are dangerous, it's the going really fast on a dirt bike with nothing but a thin layer of nylon between your body and the sudden unexpected stops that's the problem.

Advances in safety equipment and slower bikes are only real answer but riders already don't use a lot of the currently available safety equipment and nobody has interest in slowing bikes down so dumbing down tracks is the new normal I guess. 

What safety gear would you like to see them use that they aren’t already? Helmets, boots, knee braces, under protectors. There’s not much of the body...

What safety gear would you like to see them use that they aren’t already? Helmets, boots, knee braces, under protectors. There’s not much of the body left to cover. Elbow guards and kidney belts? The only argument left for safety is that they wear full body protective suits which is not very feasible for the type of movements required to race SX. 

A large number of guys on the track have nothing but a roost guard between the top of their boots and the bottom of their helmet. There's all kinds of ways you could design better protection for torso. the new alpinestars deal is one example and we'll see how many guys choose to wear it. These things don't prohibit movement more than riders would be able to get used to easily if they actually wanted to. 

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MOTO13
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2/27/2025 11:08am

Modern 4 stroke is more powerful than needed and the SX tracks are easier than ever. Makes a lot of sense. Pretty soon the KTM Juniors will be able to do the entire track. 

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2/27/2025 11:20am
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Dragon's back: scrapped Long whoop section: scrapped Big whoops: scrappedJump before whoops: scrappedSomeone quads a section = tamed down or removed. What's next? IMO, removing passing spots in racing is...

Dragon's back: scrapped 

Long whoop section: scrapped 

Big whoops: scrapped

Jump before whoops: scrapped

Someone quads a section = tamed down or removed. 

What's next? 

IMO, removing passing spots in racing is stupid. These guys are the best in the world. Let them be challenged. 

Risk vs reward should be a thing. 

Is it just my perception or is it a reality that the whoops have been tame as fuck this year? Not every set but the majority. Webb seems better in the whoops this year but is it him or "easy" whoop sections?

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aees
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2/27/2025 11:24am
dirtcan wrote:
This whole making the track safer concept sounds good in theory, but in reality it doesn’t work too good. How many riders got hurt hitting a...

This whole making the track safer concept sounds good in theory, but in reality it doesn’t work too good. How many riders got hurt hitting a quad this year? And how many riders got hurt dabbing a foot this year? The next logical step seems to enforce feet on the pegs at all time.

The two biggest stars are out because of corners. No more corners. 

No, it's not like we have a fixed injury quota and when that is full no more injuries. Simple injuries and practise injuries occur. We need 2+2, not 2+2+2 in amount of injuries. That's why they try to make the last one into a zero or whatever. 

 

gt757
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2/27/2025 11:33am

I think we are going towards oval racing in the future with these dumb changes, SX - MX is a dangerous sport, the best riders in the world are going to crash sometime so leave it as it is.

ET3 broke his leg on a berm, are they going to take out berms too?

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USA
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2/27/2025 11:34am
Meee wrote:
the fact is pierce went down in the whoops, your implication that the jumps prior had anything to do with that is just an opinion. no...

the fact is pierce went down in the whoops, your implication that the jumps prior had anything to do with that is just an opinion. no real stats or evidence that jumps before have any effect 

Im not the one making these decisions, I'm just pointing out that we had the worst injury of the year in a set of whoops after a jump in Tampa. Who knows if that's even the reason for this change, but if I had to guess then my opinion is that these two are related.

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USA
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2/27/2025 11:41am
truck wrote:

Anecdote =/= data. If that's what this decision is being based on then the game is over. We lost. 

Yes, we are fucked if that is indeed the case. Wish we could see the data they used to decide the 9 whoops rule along with the reasoning behind this decision (if it is true)

Joey98
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2/27/2025 12:06pm
USA wrote:
I would love to join in the fury because i feel like it's sissy shit, but Pierce Brown broke his back the last time they put...

I would love to join in the fury because i feel like it's sissy shit, but Pierce Brown broke his back the last time they put a jump before whoops 

He crashed at the very end of the whoop section what does that have to do with the jump?

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Press516
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2/27/2025 12:15pm

Yet, Daytona has a big wall jump right before the whoop section.  Yes, I know Daytona whoops are usually super easy, but on occasion they put some meat on the bone…

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MPJC
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2/27/2025 12:37pm

Is a jump before a whoop section actually more dangerous than any other supercross obstacle? They're all dangerous. Things go wrong on an ordinary triple and it can fuck you up severely. So the fact that someone got hurt doesn't show that it represents an elevated risk compared to racing SX in general. If it does represent an elevated risk, there's a cost benefit analysis to do - entertainment vs rider safety. I would think the riders should have a say in that analysis since they're the ones incurring the risk. Too boring = nobody watches so nobody makes money. Too dangerous = nobody to watch because they're hurt. 

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