Pro ATV's faster than Pro bikes at redbud!

gt80rider
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8/3/2010 10:15pm
how much does it cost to build a race quad?? just wondering, but i bet it's a ton....

about 4 years ago i was getting some practice in and some big name ATV guy showed up..... i tried hangn with him, but couldn't.... my buddy in the pits said he was pulling me 2 seconds a lap..... now, i'm a relatively slow B rider..... i would think any top 20 mx guy would be 15 seconds a lap faster than me on that track, probably more...

and... from the vids, the ATV guys looked far slower through gravity cavity at dilla, and they were not jumping the leap at red bud.... if the ATV's were pulling faster lap times it's because their track was much smoother...
FHKRacingZ
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8/3/2010 10:31pm
It cost about 20k to build a good A class / Pro- Am level race quad.
8/3/2010 10:34pm
I think the pro quad guys are hella fast, but when a quad track gets ruff, it gets all flat with speedway corners making the track even faster, VS; a pro motocross track gets deeper and deeper ruts, making the tack slower. I've seen the pro mx guys run 15 second slower lap times at the end of the day. I would like to see the quad guys lap times at the begining of the day vs. the end of they day
8/3/2010 10:34pm Edited Date/Time 8/3/2010 10:36pm
by the way, I was at redbud for the pro nat, and it was way beat!

The Shop

JB 19
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8/3/2010 10:48pm
I believe it. Us bike guys are used to seeing farm kids in jeans try to ride a quad, but I remember a few years ago one of the moto mags had Barry Hawk test a 450 yzf quad at High Point and a yzf450 bike and he ran identical lap times. ...........said he was faster through many corners on the quad.

Same reason that Super Carts can turn similar lap times with the Moto GP guys at Laguna Seca. In Rainey Corner the bikes go like 110 mph and the carts go like 130.

It was tough pill for me to swallow too.
worcsracer808
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8/3/2010 11:12pm
Also don't forget that bikes should be way faster in the rough stuff because 1. apparently they make the track rougher, and 2 because they have better working suspension and are half the weight so they should handle the rough better. Just try to hit the same set of supercross whoops on a quad lol it wouldn't end well. I like both and it's not really gonna solve anything to say one is better than the other what the top pros do on both is amazing though and I can see in some situations each have their advantages. I think the bikes take more throttle control and finesse and balance and quads take more raw strength and body english, endurance and line choice.
worcsracer808
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8/3/2010 11:14pm
JB 19 wrote:
I believe it. Us bike guys are used to seeing farm kids in jeans try to ride a quad, but I remember a few years ago...
I believe it. Us bike guys are used to seeing farm kids in jeans try to ride a quad, but I remember a few years ago one of the moto mags had Barry Hawk test a 450 yzf quad at High Point and a yzf450 bike and he ran identical lap times. ...........said he was faster through many corners on the quad.

Same reason that Super Carts can turn similar lap times with the Moto GP guys at Laguna Seca. In Rainey Corner the bikes go like 110 mph and the carts go like 130.

It was tough pill for me to swallow too.
He won GNCC championships on both the quad and the bike and the pro bikes run 3 hours and the pro quads run 2 and he said somethin like the quad takes more endurance and strength to ride like 2 hours on the quad equals 3 on the bike.
FHKRacingZ
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8/3/2010 11:34pm
I dont understand how the ruts the bikes cause has anything to do with the discussion. If the ruts slow them down, and it is caused by the bikes, how is this a hamper to them? The bikes cant just flat out rail a turn without the ruts.
Ddavis
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8/3/2010 11:37pm
FHKRacingZ wrote:
I dont understand how the ruts the bikes cause has anything to do with the discussion. If the ruts slow them down, and it is caused...
I dont understand how the ruts the bikes cause has anything to do with the discussion. If the ruts slow them down, and it is caused by the bikes, how is this a hamper to them? The bikes cant just flat out rail a turn without the ruts.
If your good you can..


...just saying
GHR
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8/4/2010 12:04am
Todd The Quad God
backshift
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8/4/2010 12:38am
771 wrote:
They say the hardest part about being gay is telling your parents you race quads.
classic!

we refer to them as quadwads
MrMJS
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8/4/2010 5:30am
I remember back in the Mickey Thompson days (1980's) the Quads and trucks ran about the same lap times & the bikes were about a second or so faster. Same track, same day... BUT that was like 25 years ago hehe

Quads are fast but equal riders on the same track, same day I would think the bike would be faster. It doesnt mean I think Quads suck, it just means bikes are going to be faster.. weight being a big reason
kjj325
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8/4/2010 6:34am
Im a ex quad racer (too many injuries) so I am going to give some insight to the dirt bikers and try to do it respectfully.

First thing is I get really tired of hearing dirt bikers complain about how the quads ruin the track. I have a friend who was a pro bike rider (retired) and he would never complain. "Take what the track gives you" He would say. He said in order to be a good rider you must be able to ride in all conditions, wet, dry, flat, rutted, it don't matter. If you have to race in ruts to go fast, you have no reason to race.

Something I love about quad riders is they never (at least the people I hung out with) complain about the track. The quads where always first to run. Basically the quads got the track "cleaned" off. Then 10 or more bike classes would go before the quads would go again. This next heat always sucked. There was a lot of single lines going over jumps that would cause the quad to go sideways, veer in the air. No one really complained, it was scary at times, but in all it made you a better rider. It even caused some wrecks. Oh well "Take what the tracks give you"

I think the reason the quads get such a bad rep is because everyone can ride them. Hillbilly Bob can't haul a cooler on a dirt bike so he buys a quad.

Quads are easy to ride and everyone can, but its harder to go fast on a quad.

Quads weigh 400 + lbs
You can't just lean put a foot down and whip a quad, You have to hang off the seat, give its lots of throttle and pray it don't catch. BTW berms help quads too.
The cost is outrageous on a quad to get it "race ready", but you can spend a small about and have a nice weekend racer quad.
Quads are out of control in the air. While pros make it look easy, try correcting a 400+ lb quad in mid air. Its not easy.
Quads will wear your body out. Wrestling a 400lb quad lap after lap is not easy.
When you do wreck a quad always finds a way to chase you down and smash you like a bug. (got the surgery to prove that)

While I think depending on the situation it’s a coin toss on who would be faster. Most of the time its seems to be the Bike, but quads are coming on strong.

I think its amazing seeing a quad even close to the times of Bike riders.
BIGHEAD1
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8/4/2010 7:47am
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TerryB
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8/4/2010 8:51am
FHKRacingZ wrote:
Ok comparing bikes to quads, same day, same track.. Steel City Invitational 08. After the bikes ran they groomed a few corners. They still had ruts...
Ok comparing bikes to quads, same day, same track..

Steel City Invitational 08. After the bikes ran they groomed a few corners. They still had ruts on some jump faces and corners.

Chad Wienen ran 4 seconds off of james stewarts fastest lap time and would of been 3rd fastest in the whole 450 moto..

Same track, Same day, after the bikes ran.

Im not trying to say quads are faster that bikes, I posted this thread to open the eyes of some bike riders who are closed minded about how bad and slow quads are..

After all how many of us on here go to the track just to have fun, bikes or quads its about having a good time. no hard feelings.
The reason so many people have hard feelings toward quad-riders is, well... In my experience, the quad crowd makes dirt bikers look cultured, educated, refined... "The louder my exhaust is, the faster I will go" seems to be an idea they teach their young straight from the teet. What else can I add?

In all seriousness, I've known a couple of alright Quad-People (is that a race?). I'm sure at the top Am and Pro level these guys are blazing fast, but my very first experience riding a quad, I was able to dice with a guy that was ranked 4th in the state in HareScrambles. And the very best I ever was on a bike was a mid-pack Expert guy 25 years ago. First time. I really don't think they require the same level of talent.

kjj325
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8/4/2010 9:05am
FHKRacingZ wrote:
Ok comparing bikes to quads, same day, same track.. Steel City Invitational 08. After the bikes ran they groomed a few corners. They still had ruts...
Ok comparing bikes to quads, same day, same track..

Steel City Invitational 08. After the bikes ran they groomed a few corners. They still had ruts on some jump faces and corners.

Chad Wienen ran 4 seconds off of james stewarts fastest lap time and would of been 3rd fastest in the whole 450 moto..

Same track, Same day, after the bikes ran.

Im not trying to say quads are faster that bikes, I posted this thread to open the eyes of some bike riders who are closed minded about how bad and slow quads are..

After all how many of us on here go to the track just to have fun, bikes or quads its about having a good time. no hard feelings.
TerryB wrote:
The reason so many people have hard feelings toward quad-riders is, well... In my experience, the quad crowd makes dirt bikers look cultured, educated, refined... "The...
The reason so many people have hard feelings toward quad-riders is, well... In my experience, the quad crowd makes dirt bikers look cultured, educated, refined... "The louder my exhaust is, the faster I will go" seems to be an idea they teach their young straight from the teet. What else can I add?

In all seriousness, I've known a couple of alright Quad-People (is that a race?). I'm sure at the top Am and Pro level these guys are blazing fast, but my very first experience riding a quad, I was able to dice with a guy that was ranked 4th in the state in HareScrambles. And the very best I ever was on a bike was a mid-pack Expert guy 25 years ago. First time. I really don't think they require the same level of talent.

"The louder my exhaust is, the faster I will go"

That goes for Bikes too

You got to remember there is normally more bikes, more bikes = more potential for better talent in your class.

Or maybe your a gifted quad rider Smile
jeffro503
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8/4/2010 9:05am
FHKRacingZ wrote:
Ok comparing bikes to quads, same day, same track.. Steel City Invitational 08. After the bikes ran they groomed a few corners. They still had ruts...
Ok comparing bikes to quads, same day, same track..

Steel City Invitational 08. After the bikes ran they groomed a few corners. They still had ruts on some jump faces and corners.

Chad Wienen ran 4 seconds off of james stewarts fastest lap time and would of been 3rd fastest in the whole 450 moto..

Same track, Same day, after the bikes ran.

Im not trying to say quads are faster that bikes, I posted this thread to open the eyes of some bike riders who are closed minded about how bad and slow quads are..

After all how many of us on here go to the track just to have fun, bikes or quads its about having a good time. no hard feelings.
TerryB wrote:
The reason so many people have hard feelings toward quad-riders is, well... In my experience, the quad crowd makes dirt bikers look cultured, educated, refined... "The...
The reason so many people have hard feelings toward quad-riders is, well... In my experience, the quad crowd makes dirt bikers look cultured, educated, refined... "The louder my exhaust is, the faster I will go" seems to be an idea they teach their young straight from the teet. What else can I add?

In all seriousness, I've known a couple of alright Quad-People (is that a race?). I'm sure at the top Am and Pro level these guys are blazing fast, but my very first experience riding a quad, I was able to dice with a guy that was ranked 4th in the state in HareScrambles. And the very best I ever was on a bike was a mid-pack Expert guy 25 years ago. First time. I really don't think they require the same level of talent.

If Dustin nelson is bringing in some top 5 finishes....that is just another example. He probably could break into the top 20-30 on a pro MX national. Dustin was a great 4 stroke national rider , and just a great rider all around. But it also shows that on fast , smooth tracks that even someone like him can put down lap times to rival some like Townley.

Like I said before....when the track is beat up and rough , I have yet to see a fast quad guy hang with the faster "A" and "B" riders.

But then again , I've been out of the sport ( competing or even riding ) for almost 5 years.....so maybe things have changed a little?
hellion
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8/4/2010 9:13am
I can probably ride my bicycle just as fast with training wheels on it as I can without. But I grew up and learned how to balance on just two wheels so I ditched them. Quads are for tards, period. And if you ride one and don't think you look like a tard doing it then you can thank god for your ignorance.
TerryB
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8/4/2010 9:17am
kjj325 wrote:
"The louder my exhaust is, the faster I will go" That goes for Bikes too You got to remember there is normally more bikes, more bikes...
"The louder my exhaust is, the faster I will go"

That goes for Bikes too

You got to remember there is normally more bikes, more bikes = more potential for better talent in your class.

Or maybe your a gifted quad rider Smile
Yeah, I'd like to believe I'm gifted, but I doubt it. It was really easy to turn fast laps. I thought it was the 4-stroke, and it convinced me to try a couple thumpers (bikes). Nope, the success didn't transfer.

Just gotta give you quad-tards shit, though, it's in our DNA.Wink

Really though, they are a lot of fun, especially in mud.
kjj325
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8/4/2010 9:19am
kjj325 wrote:
"The louder my exhaust is, the faster I will go" That goes for Bikes too You got to remember there is normally more bikes, more bikes...
"The louder my exhaust is, the faster I will go"

That goes for Bikes too

You got to remember there is normally more bikes, more bikes = more potential for better talent in your class.

Or maybe your a gifted quad rider Smile
TerryB wrote:
Yeah, I'd like to believe I'm gifted, but I doubt it. It was really easy to turn fast laps. I thought it was the 4-stroke, and...
Yeah, I'd like to believe I'm gifted, but I doubt it. It was really easy to turn fast laps. I thought it was the 4-stroke, and it convinced me to try a couple thumpers (bikes). Nope, the success didn't transfer.

Just gotta give you quad-tards shit, though, it's in our DNA.Wink

Really though, they are a lot of fun, especially in mud.
Thats why I hate most DBers. Most of them take off there helmet and look like Fabio under neath and shake there head to get the hair out of there eyes.

lmao - had too, seems to be the fad around here
kjj325
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8/4/2010 9:22am
hellion wrote:
I can probably ride my bicycle just as fast with training wheels on it as I can without. But I grew up and learned how to...
I can probably ride my bicycle just as fast with training wheels on it as I can without. But I grew up and learned how to balance on just two wheels so I ditched them. Quads are for tards, period. And if you ride one and don't think you look like a tard doing it then you can thank god for your ignorance.
I'll remember that next time I'm riding in the woods and see a dirt bike stuck in the mud, or next time im at a XC race and the bikes can't make it up a sandy hill.

Guess its a good thing I ride a ATV lol
DrSweden
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8/4/2010 9:32am Edited Date/Time 8/4/2010 9:34am
I actually think the quad ruts make the tracks better (if mx-ruts are an option) if rutted by bikes but the thing I dislike is that IT STEAL TRACK TIME! And I assume mixing with us is wrong since I don't want to have 400 pounds hitting me...
motomike894
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8/4/2010 10:24am
user760a wrote:
there is no way the track was the same...besides, a guy who hauls butt on a quad is kind of like a flaming homo dressed in...
there is no way the track was the same...besides, a guy who hauls butt on a quad is kind of like a flaming homo dressed in a pink thong who just happens to bench 350 at the gym. they may both have laid down some impressive numbers but they sure looked gay as hell doing it
Thats some funny shit right there .

And the track was way different trust me, same layout maybe, but it was probably very smooth, but still the top Homo racer's still haul ass.
Hank_Thrill
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8/4/2010 10:31am
Has it occured to anyone how much traction two, foot-wide tires get, compared to a tire only 4 inches wide?
FHKRacingZ
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8/4/2010 10:34am
Bikes hook up better than quads, as far as straight line traction goes. Just to let you know.
Foster576
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8/4/2010 10:41am
hellion wrote:
I can probably ride my bicycle just as fast with training wheels on it as I can without. But I grew up and learned how to...
I can probably ride my bicycle just as fast with training wheels on it as I can without. But I grew up and learned how to balance on just two wheels so I ditched them. Quads are for tards, period. And if you ride one and don't think you look like a tard doing it then you can thank god for your ignorance.
This guy gets it.
Cody24
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8/4/2010 11:50am
Just a question....but how many of you bike guys would like to race me? Or come into a corner on the outside of me when you had just talked all the smack about quads? I think the best part is when some bike guy talks shit about quads and then I go out for an open practice and smoke them. I think vital proves that the atv community is much friendlier than the bike community. Any quad racer would be glad to help another person out, whereas at a bike race your on your own. Like it was said earlier, you guys can hate on quads all you want, but they are coming on stronger than ever and will only continue to get faster.
disbanded
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8/4/2010 12:02pm
To truly hate 4-wheelers on a motocross track, you have to understand why they make the tracks so smooth and screw them up so badly.

When they turn they are throwing all the dirt off the track, making it very expensive and time consuming for the track owners to replace and repair.

Then the bikers get to ride on the slick, hard base with no chance for creating ruts.

The track owners then have to buy more dirt and sand, which costs more money than they make on race day. That is why a lot of tracks have a separate 4-wheeler track.

And who cares about the lap times ….. 4-wheelers and bikes should not be on the same tracks. That is what sandy river beds are for.
sdfog1
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8/4/2010 12:09pm
munsch121 wrote:
SO if its because the quads run a smoother track....first practice for the bikes was pretty damn smooth and Dungey was fast qualifier with a 2:16.762...would...
SO if its because the quads run a smoother track....first practice for the bikes was pretty damn smooth and Dungey was fast qualifier with a 2:16.762...would this be a more accurate comparison ?

The track was tilled deep as hell for the first practices. Always is.
munsch121
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8/4/2010 12:11pm
Cody24 wrote:
Just a question....but how many of you bike guys would like to race me? Or come into a corner on the outside of me when you...
Just a question....but how many of you bike guys would like to race me? Or come into a corner on the outside of me when you had just talked all the smack about quads? I think the best part is when some bike guy talks shit about quads and then I go out for an open practice and smoke them. I think vital proves that the atv community is much friendlier than the bike community. Any quad racer would be glad to help another person out, whereas at a bike race your on your own. Like it was said earlier, you guys can hate on quads all you want, but they are coming on stronger than ever and will only continue to get faster.
As a quad rider, I do not think we belong on the same track at the same time. We both just take totally different lines and unless you have ridden and raced both, you dont know where to check up and give the "other machine" room.

I also understand where Bikers get some of their hate from. You will get Jimmy Joe Buckshot who rides around his cow field with his tabacco chewing buddies and thinks he can go race. This is where the "its easy to RIDE a quad" idea comes from, any fool can ride one you just sit on it, racing one on a motocross track, is a completely different world.

Again I will ask, how many guys who have all this negativity toward quads for being lame and easy to ride have ever had the nerve to man up and take one out on a real motocross track ?? Anyone in the downstate NY area ?? I have an open invite for anyone wanting to give it a try and have something to actually base that opinion on. PM me, we can even put it on video.

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