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This thread really tucked the front.
Wrong, They are buying bonds.
That pay interest.
How do you know the new money is debt. It could be equity.
Sorry my friend, as a business owner myself for decades, morally you are responsible to be able to pay all suppliers, employees, and debts. Not 30%. In my world there is a very specific word for people that take things and do not pay for them.
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I'm not saying your wrong because I have no knowledge of the nature of the consideration being received by investors, but I don't see anything that supports the claim that the consideration is bonds. Where did you see that?
When they had their dog and pony show vote it was disclosed and approved.
Ok then educate me. You said Progressive told KTM to pound salt and no longer sells them. As far as I can tell Progressive was located in Hudson Falls but then merged with another dealer in late '23 and became Dax Powersports in Queensbury. So which one have you been going to for 8 years without ever seeing a KTM? The Hudson Falls location that closed its doors over a year ago or the Queensbury location that you keep posting a link to?
I'll stop when you admit none of this has anything to do with what we are talking about in this thread.
This has been voted, details are in there: https://www.pierermobility.com/en/investor-relations/general-meeting
"The Executive Board shall be authorised, with the consent of the Supervisory Board, to issue financial instruments as defined in § 174 AktG, in particular convertible bonds, profit participation bonds and participation rights, with a total nominal amount of up to EUR 900.000.000,00, which may also grant the subscription and/or conversion rights to acquire up to 16,898,267 shares in the Company and/or are also structured in such a way that they can be reported as equity, including in several tranches and in different combinations, and also indirectly by way of a guarantee for the issue of financial instruments by an affiliate of the Company with conversion and/or subscription rights to shares in the Company."
First claim about 1B loan was BS, is the second claim about bonds paying interest any better?
The saying is "pound sand"....who tf says salt?
Can you guys get a room or something - I’m trying to figure out if I will be able to buy OEM timing chains going forward 🤪
Next week should be interesting and I'll stop throwing rocks at the short bus when that happens.
Is there an article explaining this that you’ve seen besides the one a few pages back? That one says they are getting 900M from investors but it doesn’t say what the investors are getting. There’s also mention of a 250M loan as part of the insolvency process. That looks to be in addition to the 900M, right? It seems unclear to me who supplies that financing. Actually, there’s plenty here unclear to me - and I suspect I’m not alone.
Edit: Just saw Beagle’s post regarding bonds. It sounds like the bond issuance is structured as equity.
Thanks for sharing that. It’s an interesting way to structure the investment!
No, a private business cannot directly "float a bond and book it as equity" because a bond is considered debt, not equity, on a company's balance sheet; however, a private company can issue convertible bonds, which allows the bondholder to convert their debt into equity shares under certain conditions, essentially acting as a hybrid between debt and equity.
When a company issues a bond, it is essentially borrowing money from investors and is obligated to pay back the principal amount with interest, which is recorded as a liability on the balance sheet.
Equity represents ownership shares in a company, which are recorded as a company's net assets on the balance sheet.
Generally correct, but there are exceptions. I'm not as familiar with bonds, but as far as shares go, under ASPE in Canada, there are situations where we're required to report the redemption value of preferred shares (specifically, retractable or mandatorily redeemable shares) as a liability, not equity - despite the fact that shares are equity in the company. I suspect there is some accounting standard in Austria that allows the reporting of bonds as equity under certain circumstances. I am completely ignorant of what that might be, but the wording of the press release suggests that such a thing is possible.
So what’s the over/under on whether or not we will see a GG or HUS truck in the pits next year?
Buy them now while they have stock.
You guys are a tough crowd and thats why we love ya. Right now, the KTM group is supporting dealers as good as ever and warranty claims are handled in a timely fashion. Springtime will be here soon and the sun will shine bright. Pick out the "right" KTM group dealer - KTM, Husqvarna or GasGas and go buy a new bike and have fun on 2 wheels.
Pit Row
I recognize your name as a longtime and well respected dealer/business owner, I would be certain I am not the only one who appreciates your input, thank you. But I must ask, how would you feel if one of your competitors - a rival dealership - was able to operate while only paying 30% of their bills, while you still are honest with your responsibilities? Or better yet if someone your business depended upon paying their debts to you, backed out of their committments made to you and your business, and only paid you 30% of their debt. I am not trying to be a smart ass, it is an honest question. As a businessman myself, I know either scenario would leave me sore as hell. PMG has let a lot of people hanging.
🤣 Well said.
Guess you have to ask if it’s worth hanging onto the hope you might get 100%/0% or would you rather get a guaranteed 50%? Did you never have to offer a discount to get a sale or move some product? I would venture it’s along the same lines if you may have a long term sale in the future
Yer tha man Mr. Munn! That's why we love ya. Give 'em Hell!
No, I never discounted anything 70%. Most generally real deep discounts are a sign of poor business practices. I think you would find most businesses operating for a decent amount of time pay their suppliers and help as well in regular fashion. Call me old fashioned, but I don't think it's cool to make those that depend upon you pay for your mistakes.
The dilemma here isn't about paying your suppliers or not nor is it about unfair competition.
The company is on the brink of bankruptcy, the reality is that they cannot pay their bills, that's just not an option anymore.
So the question really asked to the suppliers (as well as other creditors) is: would you rather get 30% in 3 months so the company survives and you're still getting orders or would you rather see the company liquidated, get 15% and lose this chunk of your activity?
That's not a company strategy, that's a company failure. Austrian business law offers alternatives to protect companies and creditors in such situations, while putting a lot of power in the hands of the creditors. Now the creditors themselves get to decide how this goes.
Just curious what brand vehicle some on their high horse in this thread drive? 2008 bailouts for $1000 Alex
The thought that keeps recurring is that the brink of bankruptcy was stimulated by just a few executives' hubris, bad judgement, and irresponsibility, perhaps not, but it seems that way. I understand a bad business climate and unforeseen circumstances. I don't think anybody questions the bikes they produce, other than a few bad apples. Building lavish headquarters, buying boutique brands, overproduction, questionable quality of products from strategic alignments, all seem the tip of the iceberg of decisions that did not happen overnight. You don't owe over 2B without owing 1B first, at which time somebody should have thought how they will pay help and suppliers. It really appears this bankruptcy was not happenstance, nor on purpose of course, but a whole lot of irresponsibility.
Very well said. Many very poor decisions were made by leadership. How KTM could get that far in debt is beyond me.
buy PMG stock right now if you want a 50-100% return in 2 weeks or less
How much are you holding?
Well I think it’s safe to say it wont be business as usual if they plan to pay anything back. The cost cutting exercise will be interesting to watch. I have to believe the racing divisions are are going to take some serious hits. We’ll see.
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