Lawrences vs Mirtl Lawsuit Details Emerge

avidchimp
Posts
5700
Joined
7/9/2008
Location
EGL, MN US
2/1/2025 9:18am
Tyler D wrote:

Vicarious liability. Welcome to America

avidchimp wrote:
There is zero liability on WMG at this point. Mirtls' issues are outside of WMG's scope of work if it is indeed just a Jettson Donuts...

There is zero liability on WMG at this point. Mirtls' issues are outside of WMG's scope of work if it is indeed just a Jettson Donuts account issue. The tell in this situation is the Lawrence's kept WMG as their representative of record.

Tyler D wrote:
How vicarious liability worksVicarious liability is based on the idea that the party in control should also be responsible for the actions of the party they...

How vicarious liability works

Vicarious liability is based on the idea that the party in control should also be responsible for the actions of the party they control. 

Vicarious liability is a type of strict liability, which means the responsible party is held liable regardless of their intent or knowledge. 

I understand that, but if Mirtl was acting as an agent/manager for an entity outside of WMG representation when these offenses were committed it would be a serious stretch to include WMG as an offending party.

Either way, the fact that WMG is the agency of record with them still says all you need to know about their scope of culpability.

I am not a lawyer, just someone familiar with the agency structure.

1
Question
Posts
3177
Joined
6/26/2014
Location
FR
2/1/2025 9:23am

Doesn't sound good and I would not be surprised if the IRS will also want its share. 

1
Snail
Posts
142
Joined
1/6/2024
Location
Ottawa, ON CA
2/1/2025 9:24am
Maddeh wrote:
From my previous experience of an owner / member of several LLCs, one or more of the members (owners) are designated as the manager. I have...

From my previous experience of an owner / member of several LLCs, one or more of the members (owners) are designated as the manager. I have never put an employee of an LLC on the articles. 

Myself, our CFO, CEO and 3 shareholders are managers of an LLC. 

CFO and I could drain the account if we both signed, but we don’t own the money. CEO and the 3 shareholders do… split according to their shareholder agreements  


not uncommon if owners of companies are not active in the business  

 

1
Tyler D
Posts
2062
Joined
12/5/2022
Location
La, CA US
2/1/2025 9:26am
avidchimp wrote:
I understand that, but if Mirtl was acting as an agent/manager for an entity outside of WMG representation when these offenses were committed it would be...

I understand that, but if Mirtl was acting as an agent/manager for an entity outside of WMG representation when these offenses were committed it would be a serious stretch to include WMG as an offending party.

Either way, the fact that WMG is the agency of record with them still says all you need to know about their scope of culpability.

I am not a lawyer, just someone familiar with the agency structure.

That's why I asked about the $240K from Alpinestars he failed to collect. That's probably within scope. They're agent of record NOW, but if they cant recover from Mirtl, who knows what will happen. It's possible WMG has already agreed to indemnify or subrogate or whatever, but if not, I think they could get past summary judgment joining WMG at least. Still a lot of unknowns. 

1

The Shop

avidchimp
Posts
5700
Joined
7/9/2008
Location
EGL, MN US
2/1/2025 9:45am
avidchimp wrote:
I understand that, but if Mirtl was acting as an agent/manager for an entity outside of WMG representation when these offenses were committed it would be...

I understand that, but if Mirtl was acting as an agent/manager for an entity outside of WMG representation when these offenses were committed it would be a serious stretch to include WMG as an offending party.

Either way, the fact that WMG is the agency of record with them still says all you need to know about their scope of culpability.

I am not a lawyer, just someone familiar with the agency structure.

Tyler D wrote:
That's why I asked about the $240K from Alpinestars he failed to collect. That's probably within scope. They're agent of record NOW, but if they cant...

That's why I asked about the $240K from Alpinestars he failed to collect. That's probably within scope. They're agent of record NOW, but if they cant recover from Mirtl, who knows what will happen. It's possible WMG has already agreed to indemnify or subrogate or whatever, but if not, I think they could get past summary judgment joining WMG at least. Still a lot of unknowns. 

If anything the 240k owed to Alpinestars for Jettson Donuts/Fan experience/whatever merchandise was to be paid by Jettson Donuts LLC as they are the debtor of record (and outside WMG representation), and with Alpinestars withholding endorsement payments to the Lawrence's, and by proxy agency commission for WMG, then I would think WMG would be party to the plaintiff's side. 

2
2/1/2025 9:46am
Careful, he loves to run his mouth about everyone on Vital in a general sense, but absolutely can't handle ANYTHING negative directed toward him in any...

Careful, he loves to run his mouth about everyone on Vital in a general sense, but absolutely can't handle ANYTHING negative directed toward him in any way. 

GuyB wrote:

Give it your best shot. 😀

You always seem like a good guy who I'd love to grab a beer with at a race, but on here you came across as a nice guy, but also a guy so incredibly self-righteous you just can't fathom how anyone could have a different opinion or viewpoint.

How's that? 🍻😂

18
1
2/1/2025 9:56am
You always seem like a good guy who I'd love to grab a beer with at a race, but on here you came across as a...

You always seem like a good guy who I'd love to grab a beer with at a race, but on here you came across as a nice guy, but also a guy so incredibly self-righteous you just can't fathom how anyone could have a different opinion or viewpoint.

How's that? 🍻😂

Keeping tabs on what’s happening here like a jealous ex..

6
5
2/1/2025 10:00am
Careful, he loves to run his mouth about everyone on Vital in a general sense, but absolutely can't handle ANYTHING negative directed toward him in any...

Careful, he loves to run his mouth about everyone on Vital in a general sense, but absolutely can't handle ANYTHING negative directed toward him in any way. 

GuyB wrote:

Give it your best shot. 😀

You always seem like a good guy who I'd love to grab a beer with at a race, but on here you came across as a...

You always seem like a good guy who I'd love to grab a beer with at a race, but on here you came across as a nice guy, but also a guy so incredibly self-righteous you just can't fathom how anyone could have a different opinion or viewpoint.

How's that? 🍻😂

You just described 80% of the posters in this joint no?

5
1
2/1/2025 10:03am
Careful, he loves to run his mouth about everyone on Vital in a general sense, but absolutely can't handle ANYTHING negative directed toward him in any...

Careful, he loves to run his mouth about everyone on Vital in a general sense, but absolutely can't handle ANYTHING negative directed toward him in any way. 

GuyB wrote:

Give it your best shot. 😀

You always seem like a good guy who I'd love to grab a beer with at a race, but on here you came across as a...

You always seem like a good guy who I'd love to grab a beer with at a race, but on here you came across as a nice guy, but also a guy so incredibly self-righteous you just can't fathom how anyone could have a different opinion or viewpoint.

How's that? 🍻😂

if he'd just show up and spitball with us, he'd be seen as an original OG and be a great member. Instead he just randomly pops in, shoots off a passive aggressive insult or two, then vanishes when others confront him. It's unfortunate.

21
2
2/1/2025 10:04am
GuyB wrote:

Give it your best shot. 😀

You always seem like a good guy who I'd love to grab a beer with at a race, but on here you came across as a...

You always seem like a good guy who I'd love to grab a beer with at a race, but on here you came across as a nice guy, but also a guy so incredibly self-righteous you just can't fathom how anyone could have a different opinion or viewpoint.

How's that? 🍻😂

You just described 80% of the posters in this joint no?

Absolutely lol. Myself included sometimes.

2
Brent
Posts
5802
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Party in Temecula, CA US
2/1/2025 10:21am

You can bet that personal bankruptcy proceedings are going on right now for Mr Mirtl, or being discussed.

 if he is taking unauthorized money out of his client’s accounts, to me that would be an indication that he is not very liquid, and not in a position to pay back $600,000 or more.

What a sad situation for all involved. 

7
LungButter
Posts
8684
Joined
1/9/2016
Location
Yellow Pine, ID US
2/1/2025 10:27am
if he'd just show up and spitball with us, he'd be seen as an original OG and be a great member. Instead he just randomly pops...

if he'd just show up and spitball with us, he'd be seen as an original OG and be a great member. Instead he just randomly pops in, shoots off a passive aggressive insult or two, then vanishes when others confront him. It's unfortunate.

Facts. 

Probably has to leave when his feelings get hurt since he can’t ban everyone he disagrees with anymore. 

12
5
jmo443
Posts
1840
Joined
4/5/2019
Location
NY US
2/1/2025 10:50am
Came here to see Pro’s response and was not disappointed. THESE DAMN TRUCKS MAN! IF ONLY THEY DELIVERED THOSE DONUTS ON TIME NONE OF THIS WOULD HAVE...

Came here to see Pro’s response and was not disappointed. 

THESE DAMN TRUCKS MAN! IF ONLY THEY DELIVERED THOSE DONUTS ON TIME NONE OF THIS WOULD HAVE HAPPENED!!! 😔

My 1099 trk contrakt I just had we did the biggest load of donuts ever saw in the east of iL. The mafia came over to take it all over when I was working on my break barefoot in the cold but the Indians took it and the guy wearing flip flops crashed his tractor 15 years ago just talking about donuts and I’m out all of the frosting that I’ll nvr get bck. My cr125 really needs that donut moneys so I can get bck in pro rcing for Mitchell Payso.  

15
1
yak651
Posts
8596
Joined
8/26/2006
Location
Appleton, WI US
Fantasy
2/1/2025 10:58am
if he'd just show up and spitball with us, he'd be seen as an original OG and be a great member. Instead he just randomly pops...

if he'd just show up and spitball with us, he'd be seen as an original OG and be a great member. Instead he just randomly pops in, shoots off a passive aggressive insult or two, then vanishes when others confront him. It's unfortunate.

LungButter wrote:

Facts. 

Probably has to leave when his feelings get hurt since he can’t ban everyone he disagrees with anymore. 

Jealous ML runs the board 10x better yet still keeping most of the rif raf out

11
6
Not hillbilly
Posts
1046
Joined
6/8/2024
Location
Gaithersburg, MD US
2/1/2025 11:15am
if he'd just show up and spitball with us, he'd be seen as an original OG and be a great member. Instead he just randomly pops...

if he'd just show up and spitball with us, he'd be seen as an original OG and be a great member. Instead he just randomly pops in, shoots off a passive aggressive insult or two, then vanishes when others confront him. It's unfortunate.

LungButter wrote:

Facts. 

Probably has to leave when his feelings get hurt since he can’t ban everyone he disagrees with anymore. 

yak651 wrote:

Jealous ML runs the board 10x better yet still keeping most of the rif raf out

None of youse guys can hold a candle to what GuyB achieved (Motodrive > VitalMX). Keep hating, he’ll keep chuckling.

8
15
ACBraap
Posts
1165
Joined
2/10/2012
Location
Seattlish, WA US
Fantasy
2/1/2025 11:51am
Snail wrote:
We’re still trying to find a way out for Mirtl I see….There’s no reasonable explanation for this. Stop trying to grasp at straws. I’m not spending the...

We’re still trying to find a way out for Mirtl I see….


There’s no reasonable explanation for this. Stop trying to grasp at straws. 

I’m not spending the time, do a business search for jettson donuts LLC. You’ll see the ownership structure won’t have any of the what ifs your implying. 

SEEMEFIRST wrote:

He's listed as one of 2 managers of the LLC.

You can be a manager of an LLC without being an owner of the LLC.

1
ACBraap
Posts
1165
Joined
2/10/2012
Location
Seattlish, WA US
Fantasy
2/1/2025 11:57am
GuyB wrote:

Give it your best shot. 😀

You always seem like a good guy who I'd love to grab a beer with at a race, but on here you came across as a...

You always seem like a good guy who I'd love to grab a beer with at a race, but on here you came across as a nice guy, but also a guy so incredibly self-righteous you just can't fathom how anyone could have a different opinion or viewpoint.

How's that? 🍻😂

You just described 80% of the posters in this joint no?

I think the majority of posters seem like decent people most of the time.  Guy B is overwhelmingly negative when he pops in.  Weird how he hates his clientele/former clientele so much and IMO the place is better since he left.

13
4
150ripper
Posts
704
Joined
12/30/2018
Location
Beverly Hills, CA US
2/1/2025 11:58am
GuyB wrote:

Give it your best shot. 😀

You always seem like a good guy who I'd love to grab a beer with at a race, but on here you came across as a...

You always seem like a good guy who I'd love to grab a beer with at a race, but on here you came across as a nice guy, but also a guy so incredibly self-righteous you just can't fathom how anyone could have a different opinion or viewpoint.

How's that? 🍻😂

You just described 80% of the posters in this joint no?

You would grab a beer with 80% of the guys here??

LungButter
Posts
8684
Joined
1/9/2016
Location
Yellow Pine, ID US
2/1/2025 12:00pm

None of youse guys can hold a candle to what GuyB achieved (Motodrive > VitalMX). Keep hating, he’ll keep chuckling.

You don’t have a fucking clue what anyone here has accomplished. 

16
5
Not hillbilly
Posts
1046
Joined
6/8/2024
Location
Gaithersburg, MD US
2/1/2025 12:08pm

None of youse guys can hold a candle to what GuyB achieved (Motodrive > VitalMX). Keep hating, he’ll keep chuckling.

LungButter wrote:

You don’t have a fucking clue what anyone here has accomplished. 

Someone else here launched a moto discussion board?

10
aees
Posts
2685
Joined
8/20/2015
Location
US
2/1/2025 12:12pm
By the sounds of it, the donuts venture was run somewhat outside the bounds of Wasserman. Therefore, Wasserman would not be liable. And have acted appropriately...

By the sounds of it, the donuts venture was run somewhat outside the bounds of Wasserman. Therefore, Wasserman would not be liable. And have acted appropriately by firing him. By the sounds of it, Mirtl thinks his firing was unjust. However, I would imagine Wasserman has ensured they can terminate anyone, for anything at any time. Anyway, it could also be a building of different things too.

aees wrote:
I was wondering about that as well. This might not be as clear cut, even though it's shady shit in there. If Mirtl was part owner and/or...

I was wondering about that as well. This might not be as clear cut, even though it's shady shit in there. 

If Mirtl was part owner and/or authorized signatory in a separate company where these transactions took place it will be messy. Specially if no shareholder or specific agreement was established. 

Personal loans from a company is typically forbidden in a lot of jurisdictions, American llc it is allowed with some ifs and buts. It is still not a good look to pay those private expenses, even if he would have owned 51%, it's a very bad look. 

Maybe that is what Mirtl is referring to, the accounts was not under Wasserman supervision or management so that would be a surprise and in his eyes wrongful termination. That's also why you won't see a lawsuit from Wasserman side. 

Tyler D wrote:
What's your take on the $240k from Alpinestars? That gets a little into his core duties. I still think Lawrence's end up joining WMG to the...

What's your take on the $240k from Alpinestars? That gets a little into his core duties. I still think Lawrence's end up joining WMG to the suit. 

It looks like all transactions was from the same account, the LLC. If that is outside Wasserman it will be very interesting to see how they motivated the termination of his employment from a legal standpoint?

 

2
Natester551
Posts
97
Joined
4/25/2024
Location
St. George, UT US
2/1/2025 12:16pm
joshd wrote:

If you hate it so bad why still come here?

GuyB wrote:

I'll bet even you have gone to the zoo to see the monkeys? 😏

Condescending as ever, it appears...

18
2
ns503
Posts
4555
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
NS Toolies CA
2/1/2025 12:24pm

Gotta admit, this place does seem to have a few monkeys around, and associated shows they bring, from time to time. So to speak.

1
CrashMaster
Posts
842
Joined
10/4/2010
Location
Gaithersburg, MD US
2/1/2025 12:27pm

Mate- this guy is well and truly fucked. 

As well as the Lawrence’s, that money is gone. If he’s ever found guilty they’ll never recoup that much $ from him.

2
2
LungButter
Posts
8684
Joined
1/9/2016
Location
Yellow Pine, ID US
2/1/2025 12:34pm

Someone else here launched a moto discussion board?

Oh I suppose you’re right then. 

5
Tyler D
Posts
2062
Joined
12/5/2022
Location
La, CA US
2/1/2025 12:35pm

Mate- this guy is well and truly fucked. 

As well as the Lawrence’s, that money is gone. If he’s ever found guilty they’ll never recoup that much $ from him.

I'm sure his ex-wife will use the fact that her divorce was sponsored by the Lawrence brothers to very good effect. 

1
2/1/2025 12:51pm
Tyler D wrote:
How vicarious liability worksVicarious liability is based on the idea that the party in control should also be responsible for the actions of the party they...

How vicarious liability works

Vicarious liability is based on the idea that the party in control should also be responsible for the actions of the party they control. 

Vicarious liability is a type of strict liability, which means the responsible party is held liable regardless of their intent or knowledge. 

Is that similar to RICO? 

3
2/1/2025 1:14pm
aees wrote:
I was wondering about that as well. This might not be as clear cut, even though it's shady shit in there. If Mirtl was part owner and/or...

I was wondering about that as well. This might not be as clear cut, even though it's shady shit in there. 

If Mirtl was part owner and/or authorized signatory in a separate company where these transactions took place it will be messy. Specially if no shareholder or specific agreement was established. 

Personal loans from a company is typically forbidden in a lot of jurisdictions, American llc it is allowed with some ifs and buts. It is still not a good look to pay those private expenses, even if he would have owned 51%, it's a very bad look. 

Maybe that is what Mirtl is referring to, the accounts was not under Wasserman supervision or management so that would be a surprise and in his eyes wrongful termination. That's also why you won't see a lawsuit from Wasserman side. 

Tyler D wrote:
What's your take on the $240k from Alpinestars? That gets a little into his core duties. I still think Lawrence's end up joining WMG to the...

What's your take on the $240k from Alpinestars? That gets a little into his core duties. I still think Lawrence's end up joining WMG to the suit. 

aees wrote:
It looks like all transactions was from the same account, the LLC. If that is outside Wasserman it will be very interesting to see how they...

It looks like all transactions was from the same account, the LLC. If that is outside Wasserman it will be very interesting to see how they motivated the termination of his employment from a legal standpoint?

 

It's probably because he caused Wasserman to lose out on astars sponsorship money (and their cut) because the donut account (even if they had nothing to do with it) was dry and couldn't pay the merch bill.

 

3
FreshTopEnd
Posts
13040
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Sacramento, CA US
2/1/2025 1:31pm

Is that similar to RICO? 

Oldstyle wrote:

In very simple terms yes

Uhhhhhhh . . . no. 

RICO a subset of conspiracy where one party as a co-conspirator is liable (civil) or guilty (criminal) for actively facilitating the primary actor's wrongful conduct as part of a shared plan.  

Vicarious liability is when your drunk employee runs over someone while on the job.

14

Post a reply to: Lawrences vs Mirtl Lawsuit Details Emerge

The Latest