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The answer(s) were in this post …
Ya'll need to go riding ...........on a new KTM!
For 6k off ya got a buyer!!
We are hiring as well if you need a job. Sounds like things may be lean in PA.
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KTM should definitely have some pizza, maybe take a nap.
It's disingenuous. Taiwan has some very sophisticated manufacturing capabilities and has a better reputation for quality in general than does the mainland. Sure you can have bad Taiwanese stuff and good Chinese stuff, but that's not the trend.
The best carbon fiber bicycles in the world are made in Taiwan. Wages are higher in Taiwan. The low cost stuff is made in Vietnam or China mainland.
That’s a fair response , or new bikes shouldn’t be 10-14k like they are currently. If I made 2-3x what I make now I guess I wouldn’t have to shop around so aggressively but the point stands that MAYBE 12k is a bit over the demand for a dirtbike.
Tough to spend 12k on a bike that’s worth 6k the next year.
As @Sr_Vet_Rider rider pointed out, his friends 300 XC-W HardEnduros had VINs pointing to Austrian manufacture, but CMOTO is displaying a 300 XC-W HardEnduro, claiming they made it, Pierer's post states 790 to 950cc are made by CFMOTO, not small displacements.
Please read the Pierer Mobility/CFMOTO JV announcement whereby they establish CFMOTO as…
The sole DISTRIBUTOR for KTM in a China …hence, the 300 on display represents said distributed product…and it also establishes what KTM product CFMOTO manufactures.
I’m jus’ sayin’…
It's my understanding as well, as far as KTM goes, I don't think CFMoto claims to make anything else than 790-950 cc street bikes and they've made 34 000 of those in 2023.
This was highlighted in the 2023 PMG annual report as well (p.16)
Pierer Mobility hasn't been transparent with their finances, why should they be transparent about where they manufacture different models.
I'm jus' saying'!
How dare you bring facts into this…😂
That's funny, those "facts" are from the same investor presentation where Pierer Mobility reported €1.459 billion in debt, not the €2.9 billion they later reported to the courts!
CFMOTO offers a range of bikes, including the 300 NK, 450, 700, 800 MT Explore, and more. CFMOTO vehicles are manufactured in China and Thailand, and the company is planning to open a new facility in Mexico in 2024.
I read CFMOTO sells more bikes than KTM ? Quantity / Value ?
KTM going to have a hard time going forward with CFMOTO sales rocketing , I think people see why buy the orange one at premium price when the blue/silver one is that same for a lot less.
Here is an example of the uphill battle they face :
Kove 450 Rally Price $8,999–$13,999
Road Legal
https://enduro21.com/en/bikes/latest/first-look-kove-450-rally-under-10k-new-rally-raid-bikes
265,000 motorcycles - Easy remove plastics with decals on put in stock as spares - Put new BNG plastics on - And sell them as new models.
Pit Row
Come on mate, you're better than that.
Page 2 of the H1 2024 report they've reported debt going from 776 to 1469 millions, that's for June 30th 2024, same value quoted for same date in your screenshot of an October presentation.
That's +89% (almost doubled) in 6 months, if the debt is now valued double from that it could just be that the same trend applied for the latter half of 2024.
Debt had already increased at a monstrous rate in 2023 (2022: 256.5, 2023: 775.9), multiplied by 3 (+202%) in the 12 months of 2023.
Now if there's anything malicious about any of this will be assessed by the Austrian court where PMG financials are under intense scrutiny, even more so than here 😁
The allure of cheap bikes from China is strong. People on a tight budget want cheap motorcycles. I always take a step back and ask , why are they so cheap? I Remember reading an article about a guy starting a high end cycling brand, who wanted to manufacture them in the US. He researched manufacturing elsewhere though, and quickly realized he just couldn't compete with the Chinese labor costs, which were insanely low.
Now I ask, how can a modern and high tech country like China still keep their labor costs so low? Most countries see an increase in wages as they develop, but China seems to have kept theirs very very low. It's probably something difficult to explain since country is so closed off and secretive.
Wages have skyrocketed in China. Median wage has more than doubled in the last decade.
KTM can't sell in China without a majority Chinese partner. It's not unique to them, any manufacturer of anything that wants to sell in China is forced to take on a majority Chinese partner.
Not true.
They need a Chinese held company, just like their many other subsidiaries in various countries. But it does make good sense for them to partner with a massive motorcycle manufacturer/distributor like CFMoto to navigate the market and government.
My question is why does the WTO (and the USA) allow China developing nation status when they're the #2 economy worldwide???
KTM can sell in China without a Chinese partner, but they can't manufacture in China without a Chinese partner, under Chinese law, any manufacturers in Chinese must be majority (51%) owned by a Chinese entity, this applies to all western companies, except Tesla, I wonder what Muck promised in return!
Exactly....
I will agree with @Tyler D I work for a leader in bicycle components (drivetrain, brakes, suspension, etc) and our factories that we own are in Taiwan and make most of our products (we have a facility in Indiana-wheels and Portugal-Chains) and the product we make is best in class equipment produced in top notch factories by amazing people.
You are correct.
Both are correct.
Bajaj, only small bore streetbike. CFMoto only midsize street bike.
Half of bikes made outside Austria.
All of those are true.
Nobody on a moto site cares about the so-called small bores. Misleading in the extreme and likely purposely so.
Post a reply to: KTM Has an Entire Year's Worth of Unsold Motorcycles Piling Up 265,000 motorcycles are just...hangin' around.