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I'm not sure we would have much of a sport left I'm afraid
What if riders pulled up bad behavior in the pits, just like in vital forums, ... oh wait that will never work.
No, parents just need to take more responsibility for their kids so they intern do the same for theirs. Like domestic violence, the change starts when the cycle is broken.
Lucky for me the closest tracks do a decent job of addressing the nonsense. Things are still going to happen. It's all about risk management.
Generally tracks i ride in ks are pretty well managed with responsible riders if the stuff im reading as far as behavior management issues happened here I wouldn’t be surprised at tracks shutting down. But clearly the few bad incidents are affecting the sport as a whole.
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A LONG LINE of Ambulance chaser lawyers is the beginning of the problem. Even Health insurance companies are always looking for someone else to sue if you are in a “accident” on a motorcycle and go to the hospital. Hospitals start the lawsuits process when they ask who you were in the accident with.
How about we defund the law schools?
I once was at a fine establishment in west Texas that had lovely companionship's that were full nude and more, but it was not a bar. Because customers brought their own drinks. I had drinks in dry counties in Arkansas and was served because it was not a bar, it was a private club that you had to be a member. Maybe Saul Goodman is exactly what is needed?
Dirt bike riding needs a representative group besides the AMA. Every bike, part, riding gear, you buy, every race you attend has a corresponding fee that goes into a mutually beneficial pot for legal issues, land issues, etc.
Thats called a state tax.
Where at in Iowa? I’m in northeast Iowa would love to support if possible we’re always looking into a new spot.
Standard Vitard response, criticism, no help.
Maybe a lawyer could comment. Making proof of medical insurance mandatory, make the release a contract and if someone lies about medical insurance they breached the contract, then the track could counter sue?
Fear is insurance will drop you if you participate in "extreme sports"
Medical insurance won't solve the problem entirely, but goes a long long way to help the injured person. The insurance company is subrogated to step into the insured shoes and recoup if someone else potentially is at fault. Every state has a general duty of care toward others that is the basis for claims.
More on the lawyer stuff at page 17 I think in this thread. https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/moto-related/ktm-file-bankruptcy-self-restructuring-friday?page=17
Releases are more about defending a claim than preventing one from happening. As someone noted, anyone can drop the dime to file a lawsuit regardless the merits. Mentally ill people pretty frequently file stuff about the radio waves from celebrities and/or politicians making them upset. Releases can really help if done well, which will include a release for simple negligence by the track owner or other riders. But many releases aren't done well or the requirement for the release is not policed consistently. And each state has its own policies about what can and cannot be waived.
I can understand how your average track owner may not be able to tell the quality of a liability release but why doesn’t the legal department of an insurance company review the release and then either help out or just say something to the effect of your not insurable with that release?
For the sport to sustain, not even grow, it will take a collective effort from all involved/interested. A lot of the $$ is going away from the sport as people like me (still active but older/65) spend dollars and time in other directions. Vintage racing/MTB/Travel/grandkids etc.
I race very little anymore, and I used to race every weekend/2 classes and practice 2 times a week. That's a big swing in cash to the sport and I'm not the only one.
I'm sorry, I don't have a solution, I have a sad realization though.
The next 5 years are critical.
Exactly. OJ for the win.An iron clad release. Should be in all sports. How the hell do ski resorts manage? In Canada we have much less litigation over these things. Im not sure why. Our laws must be set up that way. I never hear of doctors or tracks being sued. Of course we don't have 10 lawyers for every 50 citizens either.
You'd have to ask the insurance company, but they aren't in the business of managing an operator's risks, just insuring against the risk hitting, and t's unlikely an insurance company is going to give a legal opinion on the effect of the release that someone would rely on. It's hard enough to get them engaged on issues when their necks are not on the line.
A good broker may be more help, and a lawyer who knows a particular state's law to craft the most effective release possible covering as many contingencies as possible - inherent risks, negligence by the operator, negligence of others, and negligent efforts to care for someone injured, contractual right to attorney fees if the release is challenged but upheld. The devil is in the details. The key thing in a release is that it provides the right level of disclosure of specific and general risks, even if those seem obvious. If it goes to court anything ambiguous about what is covered will cut against the track operator, which is the general rule for interpreting all contracts drafted by one party and imposed on another (at least in California).
It may be loser pays in Canada, and a lot of general tort liability is no fault, often through the government. That's my understanding, but probably there are exceptions. And health care is not as privatized as in the US, which means people are not hung out to dry so much as here. But any person suffering a catastrophic injury anywhere is going to have a hard time, as Scottie would share if he still was with us.
There's not really a big difference between the per capita number of lawyers in Canada versus the US, but there may be far fewer personal injury lawyers chasing contingency fees in Canada. PI practice is a small subset of lawyers overall, but way way overrepresented on billboards and bad news. It's probably the most visible segment, but a pretty small part of the overall group.
No fault and loser pays would reduce a lot of the incentives in our system. PI lawyers fight like hell to prevent that.
Pit Row
This agency specializes in insuring high risk sports businesses and the owner Trevar is a skier and MTB rider. He is based in Moab and I think could help on both ends of the spectrum, personal and track coverage.
https://outdoorindustryinsurance.com/about-us/
Finding a good broker and sticking with them is really an under appreciated part of this, and they often will go to bat for the insured when the underwriters get glitchy.
I get that but if the quality of the waiver is a major contributor to the amount of liability the track is exposed to, seems like this would be just as much a factor as anything when evaluating a potential client.
Oh gosh in that case it's a terrible idea. Fuck it.
What do you expect the AMA to do with tracks that have no association with them?
And even if you solve all this, you still have problems with noise, dust, neighbors, urban encroachment, etc. I think you can look to Europe to see the future of moto in the US, and even there, they have cheaper medical and fewer liability issues than we do.
It's gonna suck for you if this public lands lawsuit goes through and gives all the BLM land to the states. All the rich rancher wannabees will buy it up and fence it off. A woman from Chicago and a car dealership owner from Denver were at a recent land auction in Central Kansas. They went into a bidding war and the dealer guy won, 2 million dollars for a section of not great land next to a river. Really discouraged my buddy who's trying to get more farm land, you can't compete with the Uber rich when they want something.
Well I'm pointing out the insanity that throwing money at a situation fixes anything. Guess what, You can't fix "global warming" by throwing money at it. Just like how you can't fix peoples terrible behavior by throwing money at tier memberships for tracks. You need to fix the peoples attitude.
Oh yeah people on your land doing whatever they want ride where there not supposed to. Get a rifle out & sight a scope in. A couple guys on our1st farm where shooting at a fox towards the house . They hit the ice 2 rounds went threw our bay window. Both rounds went ovr my oldest sisters head in the living room. Op attorney that’s aprox 500 an hr. Membership our local track had that for yrs . Your supposed to do 10 work meetings . But the rich families always said my boy is soo fast . We own this buisness etc. it was always the same people getting the track ready for a race . Buying straw bails , borrowing a wagon , picking rocks, spreading a ton of wood chips into the track . Greatt Loam. People don’t listen or follow the rules. Just like this ovr booked grocery warehouse. If they listened at the gate , they might know the procedures here.
Tillable land values have gone wild post covid. I’ve seen some signs that they are coming down slightly, but trying to start or grow a farming operation right now seems near impossible.
Post a reply to: So many thread about problems, how about some solutions?