KTM to file for Bankruptcy/ Self Restructuring on Friday

12/14/2024 4:41pm
The daily drip drip drip of bad news just keeps tarnishing the brand.  I wonder how they will survive this, and if so, will they maybe...

The daily drip drip drip of bad news just keeps tarnishing the brand.  I wonder how they will survive this, and if so, will they maybe revert back to a much smaller company focusing on their bread n butter dirt bikes?  And I feel for all the KTM-only dealerships (we have 2 around here) that will have one helluva time surviving.    I can't imagine many people are walking into those showrooms if they've followed the news.  It's a very bizarre story overall that such a behemoth of a company could get themselves into such trouble.... sorta boggles the mind.

I guess you could say that what has frustrated people in the past is that the Japanese manufacturers take longer on model development and are overly...

I guess you could say that what has frustrated people in the past is that the Japanese manufacturers take longer on model development and are overly pragmatic and conservative on their decisions.   Clearly there is a reason for that now that we've seen what can happen.  They are not in the business of going out of business.    

Agreed.  One of the things I always liked about KTM, might also be part of what got in trouble.  I liked how they offered so many different models of bikes... you want an adventure bike, they have a 390, 790, 890, 1200, etc to choose from.  You want a supermoto, they have like 3 of them in their lineup.  Want a dual sport, they have 3-4 to choose from.    But then compare that to the Japanese brands, take Yamaha for example.  They only have ONE adventure bike currently in their lineup, they have not touched the supermoto segment, and they just make inexpensive dual sports, but only 1-2 models.  The Japanese are very conservative, which always frustrated me... I wanted them to come out with a 450 adventure bike, maybe even do a supermoto or dual sport to compete with Honda, and they might eventually, but it takes them a long time.  KTM seemed to be coming out with new models at the snap of a finger, and I wonder if it was just too many models, too many parts, too much of everything, not enough focus on quality and reliability, etc that helped cause some of their issues.

2
12/14/2024 5:43pm

Less talk about fucking manuals please!

Online manuals will be an issue if Pierer Mobility goes bankrupt, time to download and save that pdf!

1
2
mxrose3
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Delmar, DE, USA
12/14/2024 5:43pm

Just curious, but how much are people seeing the dealers let a new or leftover KTM 450 or 350 go for lately?  

12/14/2024 5:47pm
Except for the complaints about manuals this has been a terrific thread.  Informative and much less name calling then a regular vital 26 pager. Excellent work...

Except for the complaints about manuals this has been a terrific thread.  Informative and much less name calling then a regular vital 26 pager. Excellent work guys! As the owner of a 24 sx and a 24xc I won't need a new dirtbike for a couple years. If I did it would not be a ktm product. I also have a 2008 990 adventure.  There's no fuckin way I would be buying an 18000$ ktm adventure bike right now.  Even if it was marked down 40% . How can you have any confidence in your 2 year warranty? Especially with the 790/890 issues. And getting parts which are difficult now. Parts availability after this fiasco are gonna be shit show. If I was a betting man I would say this the end of the line.Only hope is for a massive company like Volkswagen who owns ducati?? to come in and buy it for next to nothing and continue on.  Im just a over the hill concrete guy so what the fuck do I know? But I am a lover of all things motorcycle 🏍 😉 

When Pierer Mobility brought a stake in MV Agusta, parts were not available until the parts had been moved into Pierer's spare system.

If Pierer Mobility goes through bankrupt, OEM parts that are not held by dealers may not be available.

1

The Shop

Spoonguy
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12/14/2024 6:34pm
Tim507 wrote:
IMHO, KTM is a victim of Greed, simple as that. Other than that - Coulda Woulda Shoulda! The Evil Ones (10000 plus there Minions) control all of...

IMHO, KTM is a victim of Greed, simple as that. Other than that - Coulda Woulda Shoulda! 

The Evil Ones (10000 plus there Minions) control all of us and 95% of the Assets of Earth, they have all the Capital and we are getting it back, if one chooses to believe that🙂 

I do that's for sure! Do you really know how to pull the hole shot? It easy and there is only one step and after that step it all just happens! You got to believe you can do it!!

The current world drama that is playing out is all about our freedom on this planet. What did he just say😅 Welp it is true. So make a Keyword List and start researching! There is a plethora of sites to peruse for information. Yes!! Some of it might not be true and correct. Use your God given discernment skills! 

Is all the PMG information true and correct? But we all have interest in dirt bikes and thus we dig relentlessly for the truth, why, its my dirtbike😉 So how about your Freedom to ride your dirt bike. The oppressors close moto tracks and facilities - over charge us for everything and anything! paging RH......

What is coming cannot be stopped. What is coming is in our control if we choose to awake up and look around at the CURRENT EVENTS and how they affect you! Again each has freewill and choice, so choose wisely

Fun fact and I only have my word to support me. 1975 in Germany I was racing the 250 Class called the JR Pokal Series. I finished in the top 3 in both the North and Sud Championships riding against a Jr rider supported behind by Maico. The other rider rode for Kramer Maico. The fun fact, I only lost one hole shot all season. I chose to believe that I could.

Again no hate or anger from me as I believe that life is in our control - if one chooses to believe.

Nobody controls me, except me. Well of course my wife. And I guess my kids. Well I guess my clients too.Then there's the employees, and suppliers. Then there's the accountant. Course mom needs a ride to the doctor.....What were you saying Tim?

1
Team403
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12/14/2024 7:44pm Edited Date/Time 12/14/2024 7:44pm

If it wasn’t as bad as most on here think, wouldn’t PMGs press team be doing more to maintain consumer confidence?

1
NorCal1975
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Northern California, CA, USA
12/14/2024 10:16pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
Just read an article that said that KTM isn’t making December payroll. Couple that with the production shutdown after the first of the year and it...

Just read an article that said that KTM isn’t making December payroll. Couple that with the production shutdown after the first of the year and it would seem that their workforce is going to be very different if they are able to restart production later in 2025. With the reliability issues that they’ve had recently and a less experienced workforce, I’d probably not buy a new one until at least the 27/28 model years!!!!!!

Any word on what this means for the racing side of their business?  I assume they figure out a way to keep that funded?  A1 is 4 weeks away!   

Larry450
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12/14/2024 10:49pm
NorCal1975 wrote:
Any word on what this means for the racing side of their business?  I assume they figure out a way to keep that funded?  A1 is...

Any word on what this means for the racing side of their business?  I assume they figure out a way to keep that funded?  A1 is 4 weeks away!   

https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/1061597/1/ktm-workers-go-unpaid-over-christmas

“This had been assured to the employees. However, nothing will come of it now!

It would be odd if they race. Cant afford to pay salaries but are going racing? Maybe this some next level ktm keys to moto 😁

1
1
64smoker
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12/14/2024 11:21pm

Redbull funds the majority of the money for the teams 

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MxAddic
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12/14/2024 11:26pm Edited Date/Time 12/14/2024 11:29pm
Team403 wrote:

If it wasn’t as bad as most on here think, wouldn’t PMGs press team be doing more to maintain consumer confidence?

He already told you to get ready for a “Pit Stop”. What more do you need to know?

KTM “Ready To Race” until the bitter end.

2
Mototech853
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12/15/2024 1:07am
Agreed.  One of the things I always liked about KTM, might also be part of what got in trouble.  I liked how they offered so many...

Agreed.  One of the things I always liked about KTM, might also be part of what got in trouble.  I liked how they offered so many different models of bikes... you want an adventure bike, they have a 390, 790, 890, 1200, etc to choose from.  You want a supermoto, they have like 3 of them in their lineup.  Want a dual sport, they have 3-4 to choose from.    But then compare that to the Japanese brands, take Yamaha for example.  They only have ONE adventure bike currently in their lineup, they have not touched the supermoto segment, and they just make inexpensive dual sports, but only 1-2 models.  The Japanese are very conservative, which always frustrated me... I wanted them to come out with a 450 adventure bike, maybe even do a supermoto or dual sport to compete with Honda, and they might eventually, but it takes them a long time.  KTM seemed to be coming out with new models at the snap of a finger, and I wonder if it was just too many models, too many parts, too much of everything, not enough focus on quality and reliability, etc that helped cause some of their issues.

Coming from a Japanese dealership background I always looked at KTM as a niche brand. That along with not thinking the virus sales were going to drop is what got them in this mess. In my opinion the Japanese brands could afford to lose the odd super moto and adventure bike sales because they can more than make it up with ATV and SXS sales. I think the diversity the Japanese brands have is why this will probably never happen to them. Their eggs aren’t all in one basket. The MV Augusta/bicycle money could’ve been put towards R&D/production of smaller bore play bikes/pit bikes similar to CRF-F’s and KLX’s. That would’ve expanded their business without getting too far out of their niche. Customer walks into a KTM dealer and their limited to what they can purchase. Same customer walks into a Honda dealer and they can pick up a generator, 4x4 Foreman, CBR100, CRF450R or a Goldwing. Look at how many different customers can come through the door. The outdoorsman who bought a generator might be back for an ATV because he already knows where to get it from. That’s also not taking into account the other industries they are in. 

4
12/15/2024 2:17am
Agreed.  One of the things I always liked about KTM, might also be part of what got in trouble.  I liked how they offered so many...

Agreed.  One of the things I always liked about KTM, might also be part of what got in trouble.  I liked how they offered so many different models of bikes... you want an adventure bike, they have a 390, 790, 890, 1200, etc to choose from.  You want a supermoto, they have like 3 of them in their lineup.  Want a dual sport, they have 3-4 to choose from.    But then compare that to the Japanese brands, take Yamaha for example.  They only have ONE adventure bike currently in their lineup, they have not touched the supermoto segment, and they just make inexpensive dual sports, but only 1-2 models.  The Japanese are very conservative, which always frustrated me... I wanted them to come out with a 450 adventure bike, maybe even do a supermoto or dual sport to compete with Honda, and they might eventually, but it takes them a long time.  KTM seemed to be coming out with new models at the snap of a finger, and I wonder if it was just too many models, too many parts, too much of everything, not enough focus on quality and reliability, etc that helped cause some of their issues.

Coming from a Japanese dealership background I always looked at KTM as a niche brand. That along with not thinking the virus sales were going to...

Coming from a Japanese dealership background I always looked at KTM as a niche brand. That along with not thinking the virus sales were going to drop is what got them in this mess. In my opinion the Japanese brands could afford to lose the odd super moto and adventure bike sales because they can more than make it up with ATV and SXS sales. I think the diversity the Japanese brands have is why this will probably never happen to them. Their eggs aren’t all in one basket. The MV Augusta/bicycle money could’ve been put towards R&D/production of smaller bore play bikes/pit bikes similar to CRF-F’s and KLX’s. That would’ve expanded their business without getting too far out of their niche. Customer walks into a KTM dealer and their limited to what they can purchase. Same customer walks into a Honda dealer and they can pick up a generator, 4x4 Foreman, CBR100, CRF450R or a Goldwing. Look at how many different customers can come through the door. The outdoorsman who bought a generator might be back for an ATV because he already knows where to get it from. That’s also not taking into account the other industries they are in. 

The outdoorsman who visited the Honda dealer might come back for this...

HondaJet-flight-2867473603

or if he visited a Kawasaki dealer he might come back for this...

media-38600576.jpg?VersionId=UV97B7iguzShoQ8BC7NKkSOLOl3faI5
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cwel11
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12/15/2024 3:29am
Agreed.  One of the things I always liked about KTM, might also be part of what got in trouble.  I liked how they offered so many...

Agreed.  One of the things I always liked about KTM, might also be part of what got in trouble.  I liked how they offered so many different models of bikes... you want an adventure bike, they have a 390, 790, 890, 1200, etc to choose from.  You want a supermoto, they have like 3 of them in their lineup.  Want a dual sport, they have 3-4 to choose from.    But then compare that to the Japanese brands, take Yamaha for example.  They only have ONE adventure bike currently in their lineup, they have not touched the supermoto segment, and they just make inexpensive dual sports, but only 1-2 models.  The Japanese are very conservative, which always frustrated me... I wanted them to come out with a 450 adventure bike, maybe even do a supermoto or dual sport to compete with Honda, and they might eventually, but it takes them a long time.  KTM seemed to be coming out with new models at the snap of a finger, and I wonder if it was just too many models, too many parts, too much of everything, not enough focus on quality and reliability, etc that helped cause some of their issues.

Coming from a Japanese dealership background I always looked at KTM as a niche brand. That along with not thinking the virus sales were going to...

Coming from a Japanese dealership background I always looked at KTM as a niche brand. That along with not thinking the virus sales were going to drop is what got them in this mess. In my opinion the Japanese brands could afford to lose the odd super moto and adventure bike sales because they can more than make it up with ATV and SXS sales. I think the diversity the Japanese brands have is why this will probably never happen to them. Their eggs aren’t all in one basket. The MV Augusta/bicycle money could’ve been put towards R&D/production of smaller bore play bikes/pit bikes similar to CRF-F’s and KLX’s. That would’ve expanded their business without getting too far out of their niche. Customer walks into a KTM dealer and their limited to what they can purchase. Same customer walks into a Honda dealer and they can pick up a generator, 4x4 Foreman, CBR100, CRF450R or a Goldwing. Look at how many different customers can come through the door. The outdoorsman who bought a generator might be back for an ATV because he already knows where to get it from. That’s also not taking into account the other industries they are in. 

My local Honda dealer is a ghost town every time I’ve ever been there. As is Kawi. Ktm may be getting the market share of “oh my god they’re screwed” at the moment but this is going to be tough sledding for any dealer the next few years. 

7
Team403
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Lago Vista, TX, USA
12/15/2024 4:17am
Agreed.  One of the things I always liked about KTM, might also be part of what got in trouble.  I liked how they offered so many...

Agreed.  One of the things I always liked about KTM, might also be part of what got in trouble.  I liked how they offered so many different models of bikes... you want an adventure bike, they have a 390, 790, 890, 1200, etc to choose from.  You want a supermoto, they have like 3 of them in their lineup.  Want a dual sport, they have 3-4 to choose from.    But then compare that to the Japanese brands, take Yamaha for example.  They only have ONE adventure bike currently in their lineup, they have not touched the supermoto segment, and they just make inexpensive dual sports, but only 1-2 models.  The Japanese are very conservative, which always frustrated me... I wanted them to come out with a 450 adventure bike, maybe even do a supermoto or dual sport to compete with Honda, and they might eventually, but it takes them a long time.  KTM seemed to be coming out with new models at the snap of a finger, and I wonder if it was just too many models, too many parts, too much of everything, not enough focus on quality and reliability, etc that helped cause some of their issues.

Coming from a Japanese dealership background I always looked at KTM as a niche brand. That along with not thinking the virus sales were going to...

Coming from a Japanese dealership background I always looked at KTM as a niche brand. That along with not thinking the virus sales were going to drop is what got them in this mess. In my opinion the Japanese brands could afford to lose the odd super moto and adventure bike sales because they can more than make it up with ATV and SXS sales. I think the diversity the Japanese brands have is why this will probably never happen to them. Their eggs aren’t all in one basket. The MV Augusta/bicycle money could’ve been put towards R&D/production of smaller bore play bikes/pit bikes similar to CRF-F’s and KLX’s. That would’ve expanded their business without getting too far out of their niche. Customer walks into a KTM dealer and their limited to what they can purchase. Same customer walks into a Honda dealer and they can pick up a generator, 4x4 Foreman, CBR100, CRF450R or a Goldwing. Look at how many different customers can come through the door. The outdoorsman who bought a generator might be back for an ATV because he already knows where to get it from. That’s also not taking into account the other industries they are in. 

Good points - I think a lot people look at SX as a means to sell dirtbikes when in fact it is a marketing program for all things Yamaha, Honda, etc.. 

4
BAREIN
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southern, WI, USA
12/15/2024 6:29am
mxrose3 wrote:

Just curious, but how much are people seeing the dealers let a new or leftover KTM 450 or 350 go for lately?  

I have been watching dual sport prices, it seems as if the Gas Gas models have the biggest discounts at a hair over 4k off list price. looks like the MX models are around 3500-4 off. I can get a new Gas Gas for less than people are asking for used 500 EXC around here

Tim507
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12/15/2024 6:44am
Tim507 wrote:
IMHO, KTM is a victim of Greed, simple as that. Other than that - Coulda Woulda Shoulda! The Evil Ones (10000 plus there Minions) control all of...

IMHO, KTM is a victim of Greed, simple as that. Other than that - Coulda Woulda Shoulda! 

The Evil Ones (10000 plus there Minions) control all of us and 95% of the Assets of Earth, they have all the Capital and we are getting it back, if one chooses to believe that🙂 

I do that's for sure! Do you really know how to pull the hole shot? It easy and there is only one step and after that step it all just happens! You got to believe you can do it!!

The current world drama that is playing out is all about our freedom on this planet. What did he just say😅 Welp it is true. So make a Keyword List and start researching! There is a plethora of sites to peruse for information. Yes!! Some of it might not be true and correct. Use your God given discernment skills! 

Is all the PMG information true and correct? But we all have interest in dirt bikes and thus we dig relentlessly for the truth, why, its my dirtbike😉 So how about your Freedom to ride your dirt bike. The oppressors close moto tracks and facilities - over charge us for everything and anything! paging RH......

What is coming cannot be stopped. What is coming is in our control if we choose to awake up and look around at the CURRENT EVENTS and how they affect you! Again each has freewill and choice, so choose wisely

Fun fact and I only have my word to support me. 1975 in Germany I was racing the 250 Class called the JR Pokal Series. I finished in the top 3 in both the North and Sud Championships riding against a Jr rider supported behind by Maico. The other rider rode for Kramer Maico. The fun fact, I only lost one hole shot all season. I chose to believe that I could.

Again no hate or anger from me as I believe that life is in our control - if one chooses to believe.

Spoonguy wrote:
Nobody controls me, except me. Well of course my wife. And I guess my kids. Well I guess my clients too.Then there's the employees, and suppliers...

Nobody controls me, except me. Well of course my wife. And I guess my kids. Well I guess my clients too.Then there's the employees, and suppliers. Then there's the accountant. Course mom needs a ride to the doctor.....What were you saying Tim?

Control is an interesting word!  

For me I’ve arrived at a place of fairly minimal control in both directions (Self vs others) Single for 15 years and it is for me a good place. Closed (I didn't file BK rather I liquidated, paid all debts except one that I did an Offer in Compromise and paid all the employees and any private investors. I ended up 435K in debt prior to settle the Offer in Compromise)  my (22m/100 + employees) Commercial Glass Contracting business in 2009 as the Elohim/Archons manipulated the market for their gain! Capital via awarded contracts were non-existent and the Bankster’s had gained even more control! So much for the GC’s, suppliers, accountants and banksters! My parents have passed.  

Still work (by choice) however it is an excellent job. 

I’d say the only real control issue in my life is my damn dirt bike(s). Thus I can create the time to do the deep research into getting our freedoms back from the Evil FKRS! 

For the record if I didn’t ride and wasn't passionate about dirt bikes, I wouldn’t waste my time on this site at all!! 

In closing our God Given Freedoms should be considered the most important aspect of our life on planet earth. There is a faction that works full time at taking them from us and we empower them with our complacent attitude.

6
avidchimp
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EGL, MN, USA
12/15/2024 7:58am
Agreed.  One of the things I always liked about KTM, might also be part of what got in trouble.  I liked how they offered so many...

Agreed.  One of the things I always liked about KTM, might also be part of what got in trouble.  I liked how they offered so many different models of bikes... you want an adventure bike, they have a 390, 790, 890, 1200, etc to choose from.  You want a supermoto, they have like 3 of them in their lineup.  Want a dual sport, they have 3-4 to choose from.    But then compare that to the Japanese brands, take Yamaha for example.  They only have ONE adventure bike currently in their lineup, they have not touched the supermoto segment, and they just make inexpensive dual sports, but only 1-2 models.  The Japanese are very conservative, which always frustrated me... I wanted them to come out with a 450 adventure bike, maybe even do a supermoto or dual sport to compete with Honda, and they might eventually, but it takes them a long time.  KTM seemed to be coming out with new models at the snap of a finger, and I wonder if it was just too many models, too many parts, too much of everything, not enough focus on quality and reliability, etc that helped cause some of their issues.

Coming from a Japanese dealership background I always looked at KTM as a niche brand. That along with not thinking the virus sales were going to...

Coming from a Japanese dealership background I always looked at KTM as a niche brand. That along with not thinking the virus sales were going to drop is what got them in this mess. In my opinion the Japanese brands could afford to lose the odd super moto and adventure bike sales because they can more than make it up with ATV and SXS sales. I think the diversity the Japanese brands have is why this will probably never happen to them. Their eggs aren’t all in one basket. The MV Augusta/bicycle money could’ve been put towards R&D/production of smaller bore play bikes/pit bikes similar to CRF-F’s and KLX’s. That would’ve expanded their business without getting too far out of their niche. Customer walks into a KTM dealer and their limited to what they can purchase. Same customer walks into a Honda dealer and they can pick up a generator, 4x4 Foreman, CBR100, CRF450R or a Goldwing. Look at how many different customers can come through the door. The outdoorsman who bought a generator might be back for an ATV because he already knows where to get it from. That’s also not taking into account the other industries they are in. 

cwel11 wrote:
My local Honda dealer is a ghost town every time I’ve ever been there. As is Kawi. Ktm may be getting the market share of “oh...

My local Honda dealer is a ghost town every time I’ve ever been there. As is Kawi. Ktm may be getting the market share of “oh my god they’re screwed” at the moment but this is going to be tough sledding for any dealer the next few years. 

There is always a flip-side to the boom years. Even a casual tourist of the history of economics could see this coming from a mile away.

6
1
12/15/2024 8:01am Edited Date/Time 12/15/2024 8:02am

Will be interesting to see how this affects the supercross team, and riders like Sexton and Plessinger.  Even though they've been told it shouldn't affect the racing program, it has to have some sort of affect on the overall morale of the team if they know they are possibly racing for the last season.  Will their checks clear?  What will they do if the team no longer exists next year, or things get considerably scaled back.  Teams and riders like consistency and low drama, but with all this negative news, ya just wonder how the teams and riders are handling it internally.

Team403
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Lago Vista, TX, USA
12/15/2024 8:05am Edited Date/Time 12/15/2024 8:07am

Think about it - all Yam really has to do drop the 450 a 100cc on the X model and offer a estart 300 yz  and they could easily flip the script in off-road.   Neither of those two initiatives seems very challenging. I really like my KTM but if something happens I’m prob heading Blue.

7
avidchimp
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EGL, MN, USA
12/15/2024 8:07am
Will be interesting to see how this affects the supercross team, and riders like Sexton and Plessinger.  Even though they've been told it shouldn't affect the...

Will be interesting to see how this affects the supercross team, and riders like Sexton and Plessinger.  Even though they've been told it shouldn't affect the racing program, it has to have some sort of affect on the overall morale of the team if they know they are possibly racing for the last season.  Will their checks clear?  What will they do if the team no longer exists next year, or things get considerably scaled back.  Teams and riders like consistency and low drama, but with all this negative news, ya just wonder how the teams and riders are handling it internally.

There is zero chance this doesn't affect the team in some way mentally, even if it's just from the background noise. 

1
12/15/2024 8:09am
Coming from a Japanese dealership background I always looked at KTM as a niche brand. That along with not thinking the virus sales were going to...

Coming from a Japanese dealership background I always looked at KTM as a niche brand. That along with not thinking the virus sales were going to drop is what got them in this mess. In my opinion the Japanese brands could afford to lose the odd super moto and adventure bike sales because they can more than make it up with ATV and SXS sales. I think the diversity the Japanese brands have is why this will probably never happen to them. Their eggs aren’t all in one basket. The MV Augusta/bicycle money could’ve been put towards R&D/production of smaller bore play bikes/pit bikes similar to CRF-F’s and KLX’s. That would’ve expanded their business without getting too far out of their niche. Customer walks into a KTM dealer and their limited to what they can purchase. Same customer walks into a Honda dealer and they can pick up a generator, 4x4 Foreman, CBR100, CRF450R or a Goldwing. Look at how many different customers can come through the door. The outdoorsman who bought a generator might be back for an ATV because he already knows where to get it from. That’s also not taking into account the other industries they are in. 

cwel11 wrote:
My local Honda dealer is a ghost town every time I’ve ever been there. As is Kawi. Ktm may be getting the market share of “oh...

My local Honda dealer is a ghost town every time I’ve ever been there. As is Kawi. Ktm may be getting the market share of “oh my god they’re screwed” at the moment but this is going to be tough sledding for any dealer the next few years. 

avidchimp wrote:

There is always a flip-side to the boom years. Even a casual tourist of the history of economics could see this coming from a mile away.

Yep.  I wasn't really following motocross and motorcycles in general back around the 2007/2008 financial crisis that hit the industry pretty hard from what I've been told.  It recovered from that and then went gangbusters during Covid, but that ended up really fugging up quite a few industries afterwards.  Look at the $hit show going on in the cycling industry, and I've often thought the motorcycle industry will see something similar, maybe not quite as bad, and it's maybe just a little delayed from when it hit cycling.  I guess we;ll see if there are other moto companies that will end up going through turmoil that we just haven't heard about yet.  I did see an article recently that Yamaha USA had a slightly better 2024 than 2023, so they seem to be doing OK.   On one of the Pulp podcasts JT has talked a little bit about how WPS and Fly have weathered the storm, with all kinds of excess inventory and dealers not being able to move products, but he seemed to think that they were actually starting to come out of that and things were stabilizing to more normalcy.

early
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12/15/2024 8:12am
Team403 wrote:
Think about it - all Yam really has to do drop the 450 a 100cc on the X model and offer a estart 300 yz  and...

Think about it - all Yam really has to do drop the 450 a 100cc on the X model and offer a estart 300 yz  and they could easily flip the script in off-road.   Neither of those two initiatives seems very challenging. I really like my KTM but if something happens I’m prob heading Blue.

This is more baffling than the PMG bankruptcy.

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Tim507
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12/15/2024 8:17am
Team403 wrote:
Think about it - all Yam really has to do drop the 450 a 100cc on the X model and offer a estart 300 yz  and...

Think about it - all Yam really has to do drop the 450 a 100cc on the X model and offer a estart 300 yz  and they could easily flip the script in off-road.   Neither of those two initiatives seems very challenging. I really like my KTM but if something happens I’m prob heading Blue.

I went blue 3 years ago after riding KTM for nearly 20 years. YZ250X, YZ144X and a YZ134. Great bikes and as someone else already stated, parts are everywhere! Regardless how PMG plays out, I'll never own a KTM again. Simple is to much fun

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Team403
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12/15/2024 8:17am

As riders and racer we will pivot if we have to it just really sucks for the local dealers who atleast in my area have been great and do a really good job of promoting and supporting the local off-road scene. If this goes down I feel like there will be a much bigger impact to the off-road peeps than moto folks.   I’d say 70-80% of our local off-road market is on PMG bikes.   It’s a real bummer.

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avidchimp
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12/15/2024 8:18am Edited Date/Time 12/15/2024 8:24am
cwel11 wrote:
My local Honda dealer is a ghost town every time I’ve ever been there. As is Kawi. Ktm may be getting the market share of “oh...

My local Honda dealer is a ghost town every time I’ve ever been there. As is Kawi. Ktm may be getting the market share of “oh my god they’re screwed” at the moment but this is going to be tough sledding for any dealer the next few years. 

avidchimp wrote:

There is always a flip-side to the boom years. Even a casual tourist of the history of economics could see this coming from a mile away.

Yep.  I wasn't really following motocross and motorcycles in general back around the 2007/2008 financial crisis that hit the industry pretty hard from what I've been...

Yep.  I wasn't really following motocross and motorcycles in general back around the 2007/2008 financial crisis that hit the industry pretty hard from what I've been told.  It recovered from that and then went gangbusters during Covid, but that ended up really fugging up quite a few industries afterwards.  Look at the $hit show going on in the cycling industry, and I've often thought the motorcycle industry will see something similar, maybe not quite as bad, and it's maybe just a little delayed from when it hit cycling.  I guess we;ll see if there are other moto companies that will end up going through turmoil that we just haven't heard about yet.  I did see an article recently that Yamaha USA had a slightly better 2024 than 2023, so they seem to be doing OK.   On one of the Pulp podcasts JT has talked a little bit about how WPS and Fly have weathered the storm, with all kinds of excess inventory and dealers not being able to move products, but he seemed to think that they were actually starting to come out of that and things were stabilizing to more normalcy.

The 2007-2008 crisis was just motivated by a different financial tool, in this case free money and unchecked income to qualify for a home purchase even if you really couldn't afford it, and existing home owners pulling out their new found equity as home prices skyrocketed to spend it on, checks notes... boats, rv's, and off-road toys. Supply was low and dealers were charging stupid amounts of money on top of msrp.

We haven't even hit the apex of what's coming for powersports and recreational businesses yet, the economy is just grabbing the front brake to set-up for the turn. The amount of rv's and adventure vans I saw just sitting on dealer lots on my drive to San Diego and back yesterday was pretty eye opening.

 

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Flatliner
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12/15/2024 8:24am
avidchimp wrote:

There is zero chance this doesn't affect the team in some way mentally, even if it's just from the background noise. 

If there was any doubt about sexton leaving after 25', its gone now.  Riders and race team staff alike have be looking elsewhere.

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Team403
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12/15/2024 8:33am
avidchimp wrote:

There is zero chance this doesn't affect the team in some way mentally, even if it's just from the background noise. 

Flatliner wrote:

If there was any doubt about sexton leaving after 25', its gone now.  Riders and race team staff alike have be looking elsewhere.

I hear Tomac is going to warm the seat up for him🤙🏼

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MxAddic
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12/15/2024 8:34am
Will be interesting to see how this affects the supercross team, and riders like Sexton and Plessinger.  Even though they've been told it shouldn't affect the...

Will be interesting to see how this affects the supercross team, and riders like Sexton and Plessinger.  Even though they've been told it shouldn't affect the racing program, it has to have some sort of affect on the overall morale of the team if they know they are possibly racing for the last season.  Will their checks clear?  What will they do if the team no longer exists next year, or things get considerably scaled back.  Teams and riders like consistency and low drama, but with all this negative news, ya just wonder how the teams and riders are handling it internally.

One thing to consider, most of this side of things is contractual. Not the same as rank and file when rolling things up.

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Team403
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12/15/2024 8:38am
Team403 wrote:
Think about it - all Yam really has to do drop the 450 a 100cc on the X model and offer a estart 300 yz  and...

Think about it - all Yam really has to do drop the 450 a 100cc on the X model and offer a estart 300 yz  and they could easily flip the script in off-road.   Neither of those two initiatives seems very challenging. I really like my KTM but if something happens I’m prob heading Blue.

early wrote:

This is more baffling than the PMG bankruptcy.

What’s so baffling - the off-road world loves a 3504T and a 3002T - almost everyone I race with considers estart mandatory.. I’m not talking moto.

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early
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12/15/2024 8:42am
Team403 wrote:
Think about it - all Yam really has to do drop the 450 a 100cc on the X model and offer a estart 300 yz  and...

Think about it - all Yam really has to do drop the 450 a 100cc on the X model and offer a estart 300 yz  and they could easily flip the script in off-road.   Neither of those two initiatives seems very challenging. I really like my KTM but if something happens I’m prob heading Blue.

early wrote:

This is more baffling than the PMG bankruptcy.

Team403 wrote:

What’s so baffling - the off-road world loves a 3504T and a 3002T - almost everyone I race with considers estart mandatory.. I’m not talking moto.

It's baffling that Yamaha hasn't made those bikes. Seems like a terrible business decision to not put a tiny amount of r&d into it especially on the 2 stroke side. We're in agreement.

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