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Agreed. One of the things I always liked about KTM, might also be part of what got in trouble. I liked how they offered so many different models of bikes... you want an adventure bike, they have a 390, 790, 890, 1200, etc to choose from. You want a supermoto, they have like 3 of them in their lineup. Want a dual sport, they have 3-4 to choose from. But then compare that to the Japanese brands, take Yamaha for example. They only have ONE adventure bike currently in their lineup, they have not touched the supermoto segment, and they just make inexpensive dual sports, but only 1-2 models. The Japanese are very conservative, which always frustrated me... I wanted them to come out with a 450 adventure bike, maybe even do a supermoto or dual sport to compete with Honda, and they might eventually, but it takes them a long time. KTM seemed to be coming out with new models at the snap of a finger, and I wonder if it was just too many models, too many parts, too much of everything, not enough focus on quality and reliability, etc that helped cause some of their issues.
Online manuals will be an issue if Pierer Mobility goes bankrupt, time to download and save that pdf!
Just curious, but how much are people seeing the dealers let a new or leftover KTM 450 or 350 go for lately?
When Pierer Mobility brought a stake in MV Agusta, parts were not available until the parts had been moved into Pierer's spare system.
If Pierer Mobility goes through bankrupt, OEM parts that are not held by dealers may not be available.
The Shop
Luxon 4-Post Bar Mounts
$189.95 - $239.95
DeCal Works Huge Plastic Inventory of UFO and Polisport kits.
Nobody controls me, except me. Well of course my wife. And I guess my kids. Well I guess my clients too.Then there's the employees, and suppliers. Then there's the accountant. Course mom needs a ride to the doctor.....What were you saying Tim?
If it wasn’t as bad as most on here think, wouldn’t PMGs press team be doing more to maintain consumer confidence?
Any word on what this means for the racing side of their business? I assume they figure out a way to keep that funded? A1 is 4 weeks away!
https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/1061597/1/ktm-workers-go-unpaid-over-christmas
“This had been assured to the employees. However, nothing will come of it now!
It would be odd if they race. Cant afford to pay salaries but are going racing? Maybe this some next level ktm keys to moto 😁
Redbull funds the majority of the money for the teams
He already told you to get ready for a “Pit Stop”. What more do you need to know?
KTM “Ready To Race” until the bitter end.
Coming from a Japanese dealership background I always looked at KTM as a niche brand. That along with not thinking the virus sales were going to drop is what got them in this mess. In my opinion the Japanese brands could afford to lose the odd super moto and adventure bike sales because they can more than make it up with ATV and SXS sales. I think the diversity the Japanese brands have is why this will probably never happen to them. Their eggs aren’t all in one basket. The MV Augusta/bicycle money could’ve been put towards R&D/production of smaller bore play bikes/pit bikes similar to CRF-F’s and KLX’s. That would’ve expanded their business without getting too far out of their niche. Customer walks into a KTM dealer and their limited to what they can purchase. Same customer walks into a Honda dealer and they can pick up a generator, 4x4 Foreman, CBR100, CRF450R or a Goldwing. Look at how many different customers can come through the door. The outdoorsman who bought a generator might be back for an ATV because he already knows where to get it from. That’s also not taking into account the other industries they are in.
The outdoorsman who visited the Honda dealer might come back for this...
or if he visited a Kawasaki dealer he might come back for this...
My local Honda dealer is a ghost town every time I’ve ever been there. As is Kawi. Ktm may be getting the market share of “oh my god they’re screwed” at the moment but this is going to be tough sledding for any dealer the next few years.
Good points - I think a lot people look at SX as a means to sell dirtbikes when in fact it is a marketing program for all things Yamaha, Honda, etc..
I have been watching dual sport prices, it seems as if the Gas Gas models have the biggest discounts at a hair over 4k off list price. looks like the MX models are around 3500-4 off. I can get a new Gas Gas for less than people are asking for used 500 EXC around here
Control is an interesting word!
For me I’ve arrived at a place of fairly minimal control in both directions (Self vs others) Single for 15 years and it is for me a good place. Closed (I didn't file BK rather I liquidated, paid all debts except one that I did an Offer in Compromise and paid all the employees and any private investors. I ended up 435K in debt prior to settle the Offer in Compromise) my (22m/100 + employees) Commercial Glass Contracting business in 2009 as the Elohim/Archons manipulated the market for their gain! Capital via awarded contracts were non-existent and the Bankster’s had gained even more control! So much for the GC’s, suppliers, accountants and banksters! My parents have passed.
Still work (by choice) however it is an excellent job.
I’d say the only real control issue in my life is my damn dirt bike(s). Thus I can create the time to do the deep research into getting our freedoms back from the Evil FKRS!
For the record if I didn’t ride and wasn't passionate about dirt bikes, I wouldn’t waste my time on this site at all!!
In closing our God Given Freedoms should be considered the most important aspect of our life on planet earth. There is a faction that works full time at taking them from us and we empower them with our complacent attitude.
There is always a flip-side to the boom years. Even a casual tourist of the history of economics could see this coming from a mile away.
Will be interesting to see how this affects the supercross team, and riders like Sexton and Plessinger. Even though they've been told it shouldn't affect the racing program, it has to have some sort of affect on the overall morale of the team if they know they are possibly racing for the last season. Will their checks clear? What will they do if the team no longer exists next year, or things get considerably scaled back. Teams and riders like consistency and low drama, but with all this negative news, ya just wonder how the teams and riders are handling it internally.
Pit Row
Think about it - all Yam really has to do drop the 450 a 100cc on the X model and offer a estart 300 yz and they could easily flip the script in off-road. Neither of those two initiatives seems very challenging. I really like my KTM but if something happens I’m prob heading Blue.
There is zero chance this doesn't affect the team in some way mentally, even if it's just from the background noise.
Yep. I wasn't really following motocross and motorcycles in general back around the 2007/2008 financial crisis that hit the industry pretty hard from what I've been told. It recovered from that and then went gangbusters during Covid, but that ended up really fugging up quite a few industries afterwards. Look at the $hit show going on in the cycling industry, and I've often thought the motorcycle industry will see something similar, maybe not quite as bad, and it's maybe just a little delayed from when it hit cycling. I guess we;ll see if there are other moto companies that will end up going through turmoil that we just haven't heard about yet. I did see an article recently that Yamaha USA had a slightly better 2024 than 2023, so they seem to be doing OK. On one of the Pulp podcasts JT has talked a little bit about how WPS and Fly have weathered the storm, with all kinds of excess inventory and dealers not being able to move products, but he seemed to think that they were actually starting to come out of that and things were stabilizing to more normalcy.
This is more baffling than the PMG bankruptcy.
I went blue 3 years ago after riding KTM for nearly 20 years. YZ250X, YZ144X and a YZ134. Great bikes and as someone else already stated, parts are everywhere! Regardless how PMG plays out, I'll never own a KTM again. Simple is to much fun
As riders and racer we will pivot if we have to it just really sucks for the local dealers who atleast in my area have been great and do a really good job of promoting and supporting the local off-road scene. If this goes down I feel like there will be a much bigger impact to the off-road peeps than moto folks. I’d say 70-80% of our local off-road market is on PMG bikes. It’s a real bummer.
The 2007-2008 crisis was just motivated by a different financial tool, in this case free money and unchecked income to qualify for a home purchase even if you really couldn't afford it, and existing home owners pulling out their new found equity as home prices skyrocketed to spend it on, checks notes... boats, rv's, and off-road toys. Supply was low and dealers were charging stupid amounts of money on top of msrp.
We haven't even hit the apex of what's coming for powersports and recreational businesses yet, the economy is just grabbing the front brake to set-up for the turn. The amount of rv's and adventure vans I saw just sitting on dealer lots on my drive to San Diego and back yesterday was pretty eye opening.
If there was any doubt about sexton leaving after 25', its gone now. Riders and race team staff alike have be looking elsewhere.
I hear Tomac is going to warm the seat up for him🤙🏼
One thing to consider, most of this side of things is contractual. Not the same as rank and file when rolling things up.
What’s so baffling - the off-road world loves a 3504T and a 3002T - almost everyone I race with considers estart mandatory.. I’m not talking moto.
It's baffling that Yamaha hasn't made those bikes. Seems like a terrible business decision to not put a tiny amount of r&d into it especially on the 2 stroke side. We're in agreement.
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