Something Has to Be Done Now Or The Sport is Finished

early
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University Heights, OH US
12/7/2024 5:52am

Has this been mentioned yet?Screenshot 20241207 085146 Chrome.jpg?VersionId=vDituD

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12/7/2024 6:45am

If these insurance companies are losing money, why the hell are they not out there fighting for Liability waivers to mean something again? 

Its a tale as old as time. See a need, create a solution, make money. If someone can make a dollar on it, they will. I dont believe these "woe is me" stories from insurance companies

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Racerx930
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773
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Stillwater, OK US
12/7/2024 7:58am Edited Date/Time 12/7/2024 8:24am

We were able to offer riders air even policies for around $200, they are no longer offered at any price.  The spot insurance was $10, then $30.  I'm not sure what it will cost or even if it will be available this upcoming seasons.  I was told both were losing money efforts.

  A few things.  There's going to be tons of brokers that say "Oh we can get motocross track insurance".   They are all going to shop you to the same providers.  I know of tracks with "Insurance" that won't do them any good if anything actually happens.

  Some states have it written into law that you cannot sue for risks that are inherent to the activity.   A risk inherent to the activity is something that the participant expects or something that he or she is aware of. For example, risks inherent to football are concussions or sprained ankles. A risk inherent to baseball is being hit by a pitch.  

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Team403
Posts
602
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12/21/2023
Location
Lago Vista, TX US
12/7/2024 8:16am Edited Date/Time 12/7/2024 8:18am
If these insurance companies are losing money, why the hell are they not out there fighting for Liability waivers to mean something again? Its a tale as...

If these insurance companies are losing money, why the hell are they not out there fighting for Liability waivers to mean something again? 

Its a tale as old as time. See a need, create a solution, make money. If someone can make a dollar on it, they will. I dont believe these "woe is me" stories from insurance companies

If you think it’s woe is me - try getting home owners ins without a drone surveying your roof… why do you think you can’t get insurance if your roof is a certain age?  Why are they prorating roof coverage?   Hell getting home ins in parts of FL is damn near impossible and shelter is critical to people. Ins Cos will continue to pull back from risk.

 My race promoter is pulling certain SM posts because the carrier bird dogs the page. 
SM crash post's are just more fuel for the fire - and grow exponentially daily…

The Shop

geeZ177
Posts
206
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7/3/2019
Location
Western NY area, NY US
12/7/2024 8:58am
soyMotero wrote:
Make safer tracks: Less jump/bigger jumps, focus on the technical aspect of dirt bike racing (ruts, bumps, turning...) speeds will be lower and therefore safer, less...

Make safer tracks: Less jump/bigger jumps, focus on the technical aspect of dirt bike racing (ruts, bumps, turning...) speeds will be lower and therefore safer, less accidents.

Also we have to reduce the sound of the bikes, in Europe this is the main cause of tracks closing down

Though I do agree some jumps/obstacles at a lot of mx tracks are getting pretty big for amateur mx racers. For me personally, the injuries I have had in the last several years have all been due to ruts and or corners. I'd personally rather see tracks get ripped not as deep, less deep ruts to twist knees and break legs, etc. But none the less dirt bikes/mx is what it is, dangerous no matter what. People need to live up to the contract/wavier they signed.

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MPJC
Posts
2025
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5/18/2017
Location
CA
Fantasy
12/7/2024 10:29am
brocster wrote:
Stopped reading after your second paragraph.  Our ins is a scam but I rather get my ACL repaired within a few days to a couple of...

Stopped reading after your second paragraph.  Our ins is a scam but I rather get my ACL repaired within a few days to a couple of weeks rather than being on crutches and out of work waiting in the extensive lines of free healthcare services.  I’ll take in and out of surgery straight into rehab and back walking in a month or so rather than delaying out months to years rebuilding a leg that has atrophied sitting around waiting for months. Pick your poison, me, I’ll take US system all day every day with the hopes of things turning around within it in the next few years. 

I’ve had my ACL torn and unrepaired for 7 or so years - this seems slightly dramatic.

brocster wrote:
I too have one that is un repaired since 2011 but also have one that had to be repaired immediately.  Each case is different and if...

I too have one that is un repaired since 2011 but also have one that had to be repaired immediately.  Each case is different and if it needs repair, I’d like it done sooner than later to prevent further complications and extensive rehab.  I have also been the victim of balance billing and threatened with garnishment of wages for a different injury. I am well aware of how fucked our system but would take that over public healthcare any day.  No drama here bud,  I have first hand info of the scenario I described earlier about atrophy , out of work, extended rehab and extended recovery all caused from not being able to see the Dr or get proper diagnosis in the public healthcare system in the short term. I.e. orthopedic and MRI. Just because it didn’t happen to you doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen - this seems a little narcissistic. 

I agree that making it about oneself is narcissistic. I’m not that interested in anyone’s stories. You can cherry pick stories to support almost anything. I maybe should have kept mine to myself. My objection to the Canadian system is that it’s slow and inefficient. My objection to the American system is that it’s predatory and exploitative. The latter is worse, in my opinion. I’m not advocating for government owned and controlled healthcare. Universal is an ideal and universal and pubtic are not synonymous. That’s why I said that some sort of hybrid is probably best. 

We have government car insurance here in Saskatchewan (literally called Saskatchewan Government Insurance) and it’s complete fucking communism. 

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yak651
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8599
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Appleton, WI US
Fantasy
12/7/2024 2:48pm
dkurtd wrote:
"wimps that have ruined motocross."I guess you never watched a race at Carlsbad or Saddleback, the greats that raced there were no wimps.  Traditionally motocross didn't...

"wimps that have ruined motocross."

I guess you never watched a race at Carlsbad or Saddleback, the greats that raced there were no wimps.  Traditionally motocross didn't have deep ruts unless it was a mudfest from rain.   

You clearly misunderstood me. I was bashing modern track prep which is what creates these slot car tracks that are all rutted but not a single...

You clearly misunderstood me. I was bashing modern track prep which is what creates these slot car tracks that are all rutted but not a single bump out there. Add in a bunch of jumps and F that. I’m just not interested. 

I was too young to have raced them but I have watched the old races of saddleback and Carlsbad and I stand by my statement that cry babies that whine about the track not being prepped have ruined the sport. Those tracks never even got groomed, never mind being “prepped”. I’d give my left nut to race either of those tracks. 

Watching the video of Marty Moates win in 1980 is one of the greatest races ever. That track was so rough and beat it was sick and he was literally floating around it. The skill it took for him to do that, his balance and line selection was out of this world that day. That’s motocross and I stand by my statement that “wimps have ruined it”

You,d Love Denmark Mx just outside of Green Bay then. It never gets worked square holes hard pack with clay powder on top. Hills valleys with...

You,d Love Denmark Mx just outside of Green Bay then. It never gets worked square holes hard pack with clay powder on top. Hills valleys with a few floater jumps . It was a full blown Mx track with doubles, triples, killer whoop section.  If  it’s watered & wood chips worked in its killer loam.  But the beat down slick hard pack is a challenge, I Love it.  In 2 yrs nobody passed me. I get stomach pain sometimes it’s soo rough & your bones hurt. I do 4 lap heaters brake r done then. Forks& shock real hot.  But u should here some riders bitch . The track is too rough , when r u gonna groom it ? 

Lolz!!

yak651
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8599
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Appleton, WI US
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12/7/2024 2:55pm

Canada might not be perfect but my MIL is from there. Every time I go there to visit they mention how they can’t believe people in the US go bankrupt due to medical issues. They had no complaints about the system and they have dealt with some serious issues (cancer with one, serious fishing accident with another) and no stories about delayed coverage or other issues. I’ll take their first hand word over people in the us that have “heard about” the issues up there. Curious if the people that love the US system if they have something other that a company sponsored plan? People are tied to a job because they can’t leave due to the unknown of what would happen with their insurance. People can’t start a small business unless a spouse has a company sponsored plan. Thankfully I have good insurance through my work, but it also limits my options for when I can retire. 

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soggy
Posts
8510
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12/3/2018
Location
UT US
12/7/2024 3:40pm
yak651 wrote:
Canada might not be perfect but my MIL is from there. Every time I go there to visit they mention how they can’t believe people in...

Canada might not be perfect but my MIL is from there. Every time I go there to visit they mention how they can’t believe people in the US go bankrupt due to medical issues. They had no complaints about the system and they have dealt with some serious issues (cancer with one, serious fishing accident with another) and no stories about delayed coverage or other issues. I’ll take their first hand word over people in the us that have “heard about” the issues up there. Curious if the people that love the US system if they have something other that a company sponsored plan? People are tied to a job because they can’t leave due to the unknown of what would happen with their insurance. People can’t start a small business unless a spouse has a company sponsored plan. Thankfully I have good insurance through my work, but it also limits my options for when I can retire. 

Almost everything people complain about would happen with universal HC is either not true or you can work around it. 

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12/7/2024 4:06pm
OwenJakes wrote:
I asked an ignorant question in another thread about this so here’s another one. How is it that these tracks get hammered so hard but trail systems...

I asked an ignorant question in another thread about this so here’s another one. 

How is it that these tracks get hammered so hard but trail systems and national forests are fine? I’ve never seen traps and people going the wrong way on a moto track…

"Recreational Use Statutes".  Protects the landowners and employees from most lawsuits, including negligence.  As long as they don't do something with the intent of causing injury, they are generally safe from lawsuits.  IANAL, so take everything with a grain of salt.  

12/7/2024 4:08pm
If these insurance companies are losing money, why the hell are they not out there fighting for Liability waivers to mean something again? Its a tale as...

If these insurance companies are losing money, why the hell are they not out there fighting for Liability waivers to mean something again? 

Its a tale as old as time. See a need, create a solution, make money. If someone can make a dollar on it, they will. I dont believe these "woe is me" stories from insurance companies

Prudential made 18% return on revenue last year, that's a return companies in other industries can only dream of...

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sumdood
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8682
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San Clemente, CA US
Fantasy
12/9/2024 8:34am

I saw on the otmx site 4 guys got hauled away at Perris yesterday when somehow the 2nd gate got dropped early and they collided with the first gate. I haven't seen the latest layout but I guess the track crosses itself after the start somewhere. Hope lawyers don't get involved in this one cause they'll be fucked with a capital F. Praying for those involved, there's no other details posted yet.

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12/9/2024 10:09am Edited Date/Time 12/9/2024 10:15am
sumdood wrote:
I saw on the otmx site 4 guys got hauled away at Perris yesterday when somehow the 2nd gate got dropped early and they collided with...

I saw on the otmx site 4 guys got hauled away at Perris yesterday when somehow the 2nd gate got dropped early and they collided with the first gate. I haven't seen the latest layout but I guess the track crosses itself after the start somewhere. Hope lawyers don't get involved in this one cause they'll be fucked with a capital F. Praying for those involved, there's no other details posted yet.

I was at that race yesterday and saw the entire thing. The current perris layout has the people taking off from the start cross the track and then loop back around and cross where they just came from. Gate 1 took off and as they were coming around for whatever reason the gate operator dropped the gate for gate #2. Both classes of riders collided into each other full speed. 3 were very seriously hurt and taken away in ambulances. Im unsure how many others went to the hospital but it was a nightmare of a scene. bikes and people laying all over the ground. 

 

in my 30 years of amateur racing ive seen a few track layouts in so.cal where the start crosses the track or does this kind of loop but its not common and the gate operator always makes sure that the first gate of riders is well into the track and there is zero chance of the two groups of riders colliding. I cant speak as to why or how the second gate was dropped allowing this to happen. if the second gate dropped 10 seconds earlier or later it might have been a near miss or maybe 1 or 2 guys get tangled up but the timing of the gate drop meant the two groups of riders collided at the exact same time where the start crosses the track. There was a track person doing the 30 second board and a track person operating the gate. Did these people do their job and check the track clearly before dropping the gate? did the gate malfunction and drop prematurely? 

you can say what you want about other situations and crashes where riders whisky throttle or make dumb mistakes but this incident was 100% not the fault of any of the riders. I'm sharing this information purely to state some facts about the events before rumors and speculation start going. Many many people watched the start of this race and these events unfold as it was the very first moto of the day and one of the faster more experienced skill groups for the club. I have no opinions about any legal matters that may or may not come of this, i have opinions like the rest of you about frivolous lawsuits and riders accepting personal responsibility when riding at a track. But what I and many other people witnessed was a horrific scene that was 100% preventable. 

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sumdood
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San Clemente, CA US
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12/9/2024 10:20am

Faawwk....   I found out it was the master / expert class. The names of the injured guys are on the otmx site in any of you have friends in that class.  What a mess. Hoping for full recoveries for all involved.  😞

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