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My daughter and wife ride English in the equine sports world. That sport has what is called the Equine Activity Liability Act, minus California and Maryland. You cannot sue the barn or hosting event if you are injured or killed. Each state has their own variations, but it saves their sport. Horse rider related injuries are pretty rough, like moto. Zero idea how this could be a thing in Moto or where to even begin, but this is an example that an inherently dangerous sport could have protection.
EXAMPLE "As provided in §44-20-104, an equine activity sponsor, an equine professional, or any other person, which shall include a corporation or partnership, shall not be liable for an injury to or the death of a participant resulting from the inherent risks of equine activities."
My argument is sometimes people are at risk of loosing their house with our shit health care and you shouldn't judge them if they decide to use our crappy legal system to try and dig outta dept. I'm not talking about a few broken bones, some injuries are life changing and you don't know what you'd do until it happens to you. I've crashed and broken my collarbone at one track, my shoulder blade and level 1 head trauma at another and I've also never thought about sueing anyone. My brother has had 2 life flights across the state and my parents had $50,000 of uncovered medical bills, they also never sued anyone. We are lucky though that my dad and now I have good paying solid jobs so we never had any letters from banks that if we don't pay they'll foreclose. If you ask anyone to their face they'd say they'd never sue, but our current situation says that some change their minds after the fact.
Really there's two issues, one our healthcare system is a patchwork of shit with some having pretty good, some not good, some god awful, and a legal system that feeds corrupt greedy lawyers. Imagine if instead of just covering for lawsuits, track insurance that covered people's medical bills if they got hurt participating in practice day or racing activities. It would be gap coverage for whatever someone's health policy didn't cover. It would cost more per person, everyone who rode there would have to sign up and pay a premium so it'd never happen, but it'd save tracks. There'd still be lawsuits if there's criminal negligence, like driving a tractor across a live track with blind jumps, but I'd bet there'd be fewer overall.
I also think that clubs are the future of private track/trail ownership. Have a thousand families paying several hundred dollars a year for membership. It's worked here in Wichita since the 1940's.
That is how the Ohio 2008 recreation law is. Can not sue the land owner for recreation on their property with permission unless you can prove negligence. Once a fee is charge-law no longer applies. Law came about a few years after hunting with written permission only came in. Land owners would not give permission to hunt because they where afraid they would be sued.
Continue to watch tracks close for the same reasons then. The solution is staring us in the face.
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What happens if a track doesn't have insurance?
Will they be less likely to get sued if there isn't a large incentive for the lawyers?
UNDER TEXAS LAW (CHAPTER 75A, CIVIL PRACTICE AND REMEDIES CODE), AN AGRITOURISM ENTITY IS NOT LIABLE FOR ANY INJURY TO OR DEATH OF AN AGRITOURISM PARTICIPANT RESULTING FROM Basically any activity on the property. It’s been litigated about 10 times and stood every time. It’s not widely used but should be by all land owners.
They’ll just sue for the land or the equipment too recoup costs.
Yeah tracks don’t ever close in Europe where they have healthcare
This! The law covers almost any activity on the property. It’s been tested many time and stood 100%!
This sign should be posted on anyone and everyone that owns property in Texas regardless of activity.
The issue for me is that when track prices go up, the experience rarely does
I’m north Texas, most tracks were $10 when I first started going
The good tracks moved it to $20 because of a fuel increase, but so did the crappy tracks
Now most tracks are around $40, that goes for the groomed tracks with flaggers, and the tracks that haven’t been touched since 2001 and no flagger to be seen
I think they would get sued and lose their land and equipment
We ALL sign the waiver before entering the track. If you don’t understand that motocross is sport just like any other sport and at any point in time there is an associated risk. We ride because we love it and the memories we build with our families at these tracks are comparable to none.
If you don’t have good insurance that’s not the tracks fault, it’s your fault for not understanding the possibilities.
I grew up riding this track my kids ride here all the time one of the few places near by (within an hour) that is still open. I pray Village given what they’ve done especially for the youth beginner riders and the minicross setup they have they pull through.
I can see public tracks ceasing to exist in the future. Tracks will be private only. There are attorney advertisements on Tv & radio 24/7, they have to perpetuate litigation to thrive, add in today’s get rich quick schemes mentality and you have what we are seeing now. Maybe public tracks will have to perform a background check on every potential rider or member to determine if said person is the litigious type. I have been involved with a few private tracks, just about everyone of them eventually shut down as the land owners were affraid of losing everything they had worked their entire lifes for. What if…. Track owners across the state or country formed an alliance and funded their own insurance coverage? With an application process that would require an inspection and outline hazards and safety concerns? Pay into a large fund and have fund managed/ invested by finance company ? Like an Insurance Company?…. Just thinking out loud as I enjoy my morning coffee….
Quit being so obtuse. Tracks can close for any number of reasons but a large portion of ours close because of lawsuits over medical bills. LACR, Elsinore, this place in Texas. A few more in this thread that have been mentioned.
We are one of the richest countries in the world and spend trillions of dollars outside our borders. It’s easily do able here, but for some reason if we get healthcare we are socialist. Which if that word didn’t have the stigma it does most people would be for.
Your view on this is completely wrong. We're not asking for an increase in experience here, we're asking that we can keep experiencing anything at all. If tracks can't pay the bills, they go away.
Village creek mx.
Does moto fall under agritourism?
Pit Row
What if the equipment and land are rented?
3 Palms near Houston has been sued numerous times. Biggest advantage they have is every rider has to purchase a 3 Palms Membership before they ride. Even if its their first time to ride there, and are from out of town. It goes from Daily Memberships to Annual. The membership form is several pages long and is very powerful against lawsuits. Lots of riders complained about it, but its saved 3 Palms many times in a court of law.
They’ll go after the land owner. But no land owner of sane mind would rent or lease there land for a moto track without said leasee carrying insurance. The buck has to stop somewhere/someone is responsible. And it should be with the participant, but with privatized insurance there is motivation to litigate against the operator of the facility to recoup expenses. And around and around we go.
Something definitley needs to happen or we will have no tracks to ride, and the sport will die as we know it.
What I don’t understand is, how come when these cases do go to court, the owner of the track saying “Your honor, they signed this document acknowledging the risk and agreeing to the terms, then chose to ride the track.”
How does that not just make it “case closed.”
Because waivers don’t cover negligence of the operator of said facility, and that’s usually what is argued.
In the case of LACR you have former professionals on the plaintiff side saying this feature was more dangerous then it needed to be and several people complained and the operator didn’t change it.
It does as long as you do some sort of ag. Could be some goats a cow horses or an attempt to grow crops successful or not.
Pipe dream. Maybe my nihilism is strong this morning but nothing we can do matters. We’re all fucked
Would be interesting to see the limits of the law in regards to a manmade racetrack or race.
Simply put even valid waivers do not cover all situations, so the parties have to litigate the issue of whether the waiver applies or not.
In my experience there are almost always deficiencies in either the form of the waiver or the method of execution, and they don't hold up in court. I'm surprised insurance companies aren't more pro-active to help facility owners with their waiver programs.
What if the land is owned by a LLC or trust that has no other holdings? Would that be enough to discourage most lawyers from filing suit? Would the LLC act as a shield to prevent the individual members' assets from being on the table?
Worst case scenario they lose the land, but not paying exorbitant insurance premiums could offset the loss depending on the value of the land? Potentially could form a new LLC buy the land back at auction?
Maybe dump some used tires or other technical but not serious environmental issue to dissuade other potential bidders........
Correct me if I'm wrong but I get the impression that with the way your health care system works in the U.S.A., people often find themselves in a "sue or you're fucked" situation. Nobody gets a bill from the hospital in Canada, and lawsuits are much less common. I suspect a connection.
You’re a great person for that decision. Mucho el respecto.
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