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9233
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4/1/2008
Location
Springfield, MO
US
Edited Date/Time
10/21/2024 8:10am
I admit that I haven’t raced in almost 15-years…and at 66 years old, I won’t be doing it again at all, but I’m getting the bug to buy a preowned dirt bike to play ride on and do some semi-easy off roading. I’m asking those here (most of you) who have ridden the KTM’s and various modern Japanese manufactured bikes.
How do they compare as far as maintenance costs to keep them in excellent shape? Is there a big difference?
I thought they were pretty good. The clutch is great, as most ppl know. So that is a nice plus, right off the bat. Filter maintenance is probably the best of any bike, also. A few thing off of the top of my head: Chain and sprockets seemed to go quick on my 350. And something common with those bikes is to pay attention to chain slack (use slightly more than on a Japanese model.) Spokes and sprocket bolts come loose. Pay attention to the triple clamp pinch bolt. . My fork seals went at like 20ish hours. Other than that, pretty standard stuff. I put them right up there with any other brand, as far as quality. Might be some issues with the newer TBI 2strokes, it seems from reading around, but I never owned one. On the 4strokes, they treated me well. Obviously any brand has some issue here and there.
I don’t own any Austrian bikes, but last I looked, their parts were quite a bit more expensive than Japanese bikes. Admittedly, it has been quite a while since I last checked, so this may have changed.
I think it's just a mixed bag and it all really depends on the riding you do and how well you stay on top of regular stuff like oil/filter changes. I have had zero motor issues with my Honda at 80-100hrs estimate (i'd have to look at my book). The only internal change I've done is replacing the clutch plates/springs to Rekluse TorqDrive and that was a riding abuse issue more than anything. I'm done a few fork seal changes but those are easy and regular maintenance stuff.
I have a KTM 350 and the parts absolutely cost more (probably double the money for an engine rebuild) but it also lasts a lot longer than my friends bikes, they all ride Yamaha and Kawi's. They rebuild engines every 50-60 hours and Im on one rebuild at 200 hours, and its not because I'm neglecting it either.
If its worth anything I asked Twisted their opinion when I did the rebuild and they told me when it comes to the Austrian bikes stick with OEM if durability and longevity is what you're looking for because everyone else is still chasing them in that department.
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Chain and sprockets last longer on the euro bikes.
Let's look at legitimate items...like bullet clutches, plane bearing cranks that go hundreds of hours...Only issue in quality I've found on the Austrian bikes vs Japanese bikes is spokes/nipples. Trash. At 66, really an modern 4 stroke that had semi-regular oil changes and wasn't left in the rain all winter will last you forever.
Agreed with above. I wouldn’t be worried about maintenance costs or reliability on any modern 450 stroke that is going to be lightly ridden. Any brand should last 100 easy with minimal maintenance costs.
I think he is worried about buying a bike that is clapped and I would be too. Not a fan of used 250'f but there is plenty of lightly used ones out there.
He’s very clearly asking about maintenance costs and comparing them. I would assume he’s not going to buy a clapped out bike.
If the bike never needs repair as you speculate the cost differential would be nil. Evidently he expects there is a chance the used bike would be worn enough when he buys it to need repair at some point. Never said the guy was going to buy a clapped bike but you love to put words in my mouth.
I've had a new KTM 450 since 2012. Current 2022 is at 75h, 2021 practise bike at 190h. Never had any major issues. 2013 I had to replace fuel pump + start engine at 135h. Cables needs to be dirt and water proofed and occasionally at 60-100h cable behind front number plate wears off. But much less since I preppy all cables when new.
I think the new 23 there is major issues with cables. I would say all that I know that had the bikes over 50-60h has experienced it.
Comparing with friends running japs, mostly their clutches goes at 15-30h. KTM I replace at 80-90 just because I don't want material to fail. Design doesn't break the clutch.
Parts availability has been an issue for KTM in the recent past and their financial troubles may make that worse. Something to consider also
Clutch life really is user dependent. I'm at 175 hours on my Yamaha 450fx clutch and it's fine, but I also never really slip it. Keefer says he kills the same clutch in 10 hours so is it a quality issue, or a technique issue? Use the throttle to modulate power on a 450, not the clutch, and any of the OEM clutches will last a long time.
I have only had KTMs so can't speak from own experience, however everyone I know that has had both wears out japs clutches like 1:3 to 1:5 ratio compared to KTM. One just switched back to KTM from the new Yamaha because they where tired of the 15h switch on the Yamaha 450. KTM they never replace clutch during 60-90h they have bike per season.
But I also think clutch is the only thing that differs unless some "new model issues" sneaks in.
Still at it huh? 🤐
I think the main point is just the overall design on the KTMs is just superior. The basket won't notch like the typical Japanese design , plus it's self adjusting etc. And in recent years some of the Japanese bikes have tried to make a similar design (like the Yamaha 450) and it's just not as good. Maybe the 25 with the updated hub will be, but in general it's safe to say that KTM clutch is tops. Sure, some Japanese brand riders get great life out of their clutch too, which is great, but the fact remains.
I just PM'd you. Happy to share my experience.
Get a 250 two stroke. Very inexpensive. Much lighter and safer than a 450 in my opinion. 🙂
Pit Row
maintenance is the same, its the cost of oem parts that is significantly higher. KTM four strokes are great engines, everything else sucks. New KTM 2 strokes, not a chance.
all hydraulic clutches "self adjust", its the nature of the design. but youre right, ktm clutches are better in general
Can you give some examples of the commonly replaced parts that are significantly higher and need replaced in the same intervals? I suspect KTM pistons are more expensive, but if you follow the manufacturer change intervals KTM is about 3x as long as the Japanese bikes so that may explain the more expensive piston. I was curious so I looked up some prices on RMATV.
YZ250f - linkage rebuild kit $210, KTM 120, Shock bearing YZ 120, KTM 103. Fork seals not sure on this. YZ $43 but that may only be one side. KTM 58 for both sides. Oil filter yz $10.50, KTM $8. I am not seeing huge differences and the KTM parts are almost all less expensive.
Right, I probably wasn't clear on what I meant. I was meaning how KTM had been using that clutch when other brands were still using the old style basket, cable clutch for so long. And then you had brands at least going hydro but still not the basket design that KTM had (like the initial Kawi hydro clutch.) And then now you have some Japanese brands that have adopted the basket/actuation design also. But I still think the KTM design has been proven for a while now and should be a non issue, in most cases. As we saw, the newest Yamaha 23/24 450 clutch is not quite there yet, even though it's a similar design. But updated for '25.
My book shows 125hrs - soooo maybe it's time for a new top end.
Considering half of your posts in the last 5 months are one line cheap shots @ me from left field it would seem you are the one "Still At It".
Yep and that’s what he’s asking. All things being equal what are the maintenance costs between brands. And they’ll all be about the same for oil/filters/tires etc. and none have glaring weaknesses if they are going to be lightly ridden by a 66 y/0. Except Suzuki with no e start.
@davistld01 - not exactly what you asked, but I would definitely check out a Rekluse RadiusCX 4.0 clutch.
Not only do these clutches keep your oil cleaner because they perfectly apply the clutch/reduce slipping wear, but they are game-changing products if you do a variety of riding (mx, singletrack, offroad, etc.).
I've also started to consider them safety equipment at this point as well (e.g. the bike won't stall mid-air if the rear brake is locked up).
I use my RadiusCX clutches normally and don't even know they are there.
Misleading post, you added the price of the Yamaha linkage and swingarm kits together but only listed the KTM's swingarm bearing kit. Add another $125 for the 3 KTM linkage kits you'd need to do a rebuild. The Yamaha shock bearing kit includes the upper and lower bearings, but KTM is only the upper, it's shock doesn't have a lower bearing because it's in the linkage. Note, both the Yamaha shock bearing and linkage bearing kits include the lower shock bearing, in my experience the upper rarely needs anything other than grease. The Yamaha fork seal kit includes both sides oil and dust seals as well as the inner and outer bushings. The KTM fork seal kit doesn't include the bushings, add another $22 for the bushing kit.
I have owned a 2019 KX 450, 2020 Yz 450, 2021 FC 450, 2022 Ktm 450 (114 hours), 2023 Gas Gas 350, and 2024 Ktm 350 within the last 5 years. I've put 50-60 hours on each bike. The Kawasaki I had to replace the clutch 5 times, the chain sliders twice, and countless brake pads and I lost many bolts and plastic pieces and the stock rims were easily bent. I spent more than $2000 just to keep in in riding/racing shape for a year. For the Yamaha I had to replace 3 clutches in 40 hours and the plastics and chain slider brake pads were pretty weak but lasted slightly longer than the Kawasaki parts. For all of my Austrian bikes, I never had to replace a clutch, chain slider, or rim, I will get 40 hours out of the brake pads and I never really have to replace anything. The Austrian bikes are just built so much better, you don't lose bolts and they are great for a weekend warrior guy like me who wants to do minimal work on the bike. I tortured my 2023 KTM 450, I put over 110 hours on the bike and I had zero issues. I never changed a clutch and never had to do anything to the engine. It ran great for 114 hours, the only thing I really replaced was grips, brake pads, chain and sprocket and it ran perfectly until I sold it. I personally like the feel of a Kawasaki but I'm at a point in my life where I don't race anymore I have a kids and the Austrian bikes are the easier and most durable bikes to depend on when riding each weekend in my opinion.
I missed some of the KTM linkage bits. Looks like fork seals/bushings are basically the same cost. Assuming the KTM SKF stuff isn't any better than the KYB the point remains. Maintenance costs between KTM and Yamaha are very close.
My experience over the last 30 years. Not much of a difference in part prices but reliability of the Austrians is head and shoulders above the Japanese. We won't ever got back to Japanese bikes they are not made to last. KTM also stands behind their stuff and the Japanese just say tough luck. I'm sure I'll get backlash but it has been 100% how it has gone for us. KTMs have been bulletproof.
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