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Since it seems to be pretty widely accepted that 4 strokes aren’t suitable for hard enduro, does that mean 4 strokes are just toys and shouldn't be taken seriously?
I mean 4 strokes have dominated championships for at least the last 2 decades so I would classify that as proven, Electric is new and unproven, the guy gave a honest opinion, it could be compared to the Suzuki/kawi partnership of 04, “this is going to work but don’t jump the gun just yet” people where sceptical back then and bikes were half the price, Every new technology has its teething problems doesn’t mean it’s not the future but all the guy is saying is don’t throw 5 figures just yet,
Btw can you post a picture of you on your varg in sand please
This thread has been about calling the Varg a toy because it doesn't work for a couple very specific use cases.
How is that any different than 4 strokes not working for a specific use case?
Btw can you post a picture of you doing hard enduro on a 4 stroke please?
I never called 4 strokes anything my man, same as I haven’t called electric anything, I haven’t made a single claim in this topic I have just gave my views on said opinions, I never made a comparison, I expressed opinion and thought on a fellow users actual experience.
Oh and just to humour you, can you show me where 4 strokes have not worked for this sport,
Also i would like to take this opportunity to state I said originally 4 strokes where not accepted and we had our doubts, but time helped us with our purchases, just like I said this guys opinion may help us with our future ones! I never said electric wasn’t the future, i never bashed either or run to the defence of any!
Just discussing current moto my pal
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One post he says a Varg is like the Kawasaki/Suzuki partnership. Implying the Varg is only on par with the most hated Japanese 4 stroke to ever come out the KX/RMZ250. And then comes back to say he is not making any comparisons or claims. Perhaps putting " In my opinion" someplace in the non claims he makes could help make it more clear that he is not stating something as fact and only expressing his opinion. If that is what he is doing.
If that is not making a comparison than than I have a worse understanding of the English language than I thought.
I don't want to sound like I am attacking him. I just find his posts contradictive.
There wouldn't be so many different bike brands and models if there was a perfect bike for everything.
or they could increase the size of the cooling fins on the sides of the battery pack
For those interested.
I set bike at 56hp and 20% regen. I got a total of 29mins ride time and used 93% Battery. Take into account it takes me around 3 mins and uses about 3% Battery each way to ride to and from my track. So around 23 minutes of actual track riding.
I had got to about 15 mins ride time and was starting to get a bit excited that this may have been the fix. Sadly about 2 mins later I felt the power drop a little and sure enough the light had come on. The less regen definitely did make a difference but non the less it still derated.
And ill say it again so people understand, I'm not having a go at the actual battery run time. Obviously I would love more but I knew this was going to be an issue going into this with my conditions. My issue is with the bike being advertised as a competitor to a modern 450cc motocross machine. If anyone of you bought a new motocross bike and it ran hot in 10-20 mins regardless of what terrain your motocross track is you would be very disappointed.
Its a big improvement from the Alta in range and dealing with heat. The earlier 4 strokes were also not the finely tuned machines they are these days. I had problems with My first generation CRF 450 overheating and blowing water pump seals when I rode in that deep dry sand that a local pit track had . There was a recall on them for sucking sand and catching fire.
His experience ( the OP) is good to have documented so if there is not a way to fix it, future potential buyers will know of another limitation that may apply to how they want to use it.
They will get better and work in the more extreme conditions better and better. I just feel bad for the OP that he's having the problem with it on his private track. I really hope that there is a way for him to get an acceptable to him work around to help with the heat issue.
Too bad most of us are arguing about the bike . Some people say it will not work for them, I think they should try riding one first if they ride MX and do not race AMA races and after that if You dislike them still , great do not buy one. Its not helping this dude to pile on and say the company is doomed and the bike sucks for everybody since its not working in a few very specific cases. Unfortunately for the OP, I would understand if he said it sucked for his personal application.
When the bikes on it's stand,when you rotate the rear wheel, is there a lot of drag from the chain through the chain guide, or does the rear wheel rub on the swingarm?
There is nothing rubbing but the wheel is noticeably harder to turn than my 350sxf. I run a standard chain on that so whether it is the o-ring chain on the stark causing the extra drag im not sure. It is a riveted chain so I can't do a quick swap to test.
I also like your idea about bigger fins on the battery, it is something I thought about also. They could easily be double the size, whether this would actually have a noticeable effect im not sure.
To be fair, for a large majority of people who ride amateur MX it probably is a suitable alternative. Would be interesting to know if anyone else in WA has a Varg that they ride on a sand track, like maybe Coastal MX, and whether they are having the same issue.
O-ring chains do have more drag, but you'll have to cut the stock chain off to replace it.
Another owner complained about the rear tire touching the swingarm's mud guard and excessive chain drag through the chain guide...
The extra drag may be small, it may make a difference, or not.
Bigger fins would make a difference, considering how narrow the bike is, they could easily be significantly bigger, without effecting ergonomics.
While my experience does suck for me, I still would not discourage anyone who's thinking about a stark to give it a try. For most people I can see this bike possibly being the best bike they have ever ridden.
As you said I think it is good to have everyone's personal experience documented so it can help possible future buyers. I still think it is not right of Stark to advertise the bike how they are. If there is a disclaimer somewhere that says in certain situations your bike may overheat and go into limp mode and I have missed it then I apologise and retract everything I have said. If there was something along those lines I would have reconsidered my purchase.
I really hope this is something that can be fixed because if I wasn't having this issue and the battery was a little better I would probably be selling my 350 and buying a second stark ha ha.
Yeah but CAN you do a hard enduro on a four stroke? Can it physically be done?
OK, so here in Western Australia, where the OP lives as well, a local veteran Pro called Dean Porter won a local three round state series on a Varg, and also earlier this year won a race at a well known local sand track (Coastal Motocross Park) in the Vet MX1 class.
Once I knew Dean Porter was riding one on tracks like coastals that gave me a bit more confidence in my purchase. It is also why I am quiet shocked with my experience and was hoping there was simply something wrong with my bike.
It must be noted that the races he has been doing have been very short races, only 4 maybe 5 laps top's so i could see this not being a problem. I'm hoping at some stage I may be able to get in touch with him somehow and find out more about his experience with the stark.
I believe this was an issue earlier on with bikes coming with a 48 tooth sprocket. It made the wheel come too far forward and rub. They have since switched to a 47 tooth which mine has and that has fixed that issue.
You may need to add a water crossing to your track, to cool it once per lap!
Pit Row
Thanks for the experiment 👍
The slight power drop looks like going from 56 hp to maybe 50 hp after 20 min? Much better than limp mode previously mentioned at 10 min so by adjusting regen and power you can now ride almost free of thermal limitation, good news.
I guess that reasonably rules out any issue with your own bike, that's just current technical limitations of this model.
How does it ride at 20% regen compared to your previous setting of 70-90%, do you like it? And just for the sake of it, could you try a run at 0 regen?
I'm glad you're getting a bit more value out of your bike, hopefully you'll also get to enjoy it riding at other tracks for which it will be better suited.
On the other side (literally as it's just 2 days drive from your place 😆) Stark riders won 30+ and 40+ Aus MX national titles earlier this year.
Mike Sleeter says he used 63% battery for 19 min race (55 hp, 40% regen) at Queensland Moto Park.
https://mytwowheellife.com/mytwowheellife/2024/8/18/2024-australian-vet…
Ask Jonny Walker.
Queensland's sand is on it's beaches, not it's motocross tracks...
Didn't want to imply QMP was a sand track, sorry for the confusion.
Sorry no confusion, just pointing out the beautiful dirt Queensland track have!
So, when this varg battery overheats, is it okay & safe too cool it down with a hosepipe or watering can ?
Can you touch the battery case, or is it too hot
Or, do you have to let it cool down naturally on its own, however long that takes
Just curious
I would say at 56hp I got around 17-18 mins of decent ride time. When the light comes and it limits power the battery just seems to disappear after that.
Yeah I'm pretty sure my bike isn't faulty it's just the bikes limitations. I rode again today at 52hp and the light didn't come on till 20% so that is another step forward, got around 20 mins ride time with a few stops dicking around with suspension.
I didn't really like it at 20% to be honest, ill get used to it if that's what I have to do but I'm so used to 4 stroke engine braking it was a little hard to adjust.
I'm definitely not giving up on the stark just sharing my experience in the hope it may help others.
On another not, when I was done with the stark today I hoped straight on my 350sxf and I think the stark may have ruined every other bike for me. Holy crap it felt like a heavy slow diesel tractor 🤣
Are you sure it is limiting because of battery temperature? When the light comes on does it say battery temp, motor temp, or inverter temp? It could be any of those 3. I would actually lean towards motor. So does it just give a temperature warning light or specify on which component it is thermal limiting?
Can they - Stark - do an 'as you are riding' remote observation of what is happening with your bike?
I'd be surprised if they couldn't. Though, the communication from them you put up seems to imply your problem is deemed to be "such as it is", to them.
I'd ask them if they can do it - the remote observation.
As I've written, I've several friends with them, and they / we ride them, in incredibly deep, sucking sand at times. One long section is in a sand 'seep', like a dried out creek, that is lower than the nearby river, so but an inch or two below the surface, the water table resides. It is, horrendous in how deep and sucking it is once the crust is broken.
There's only been one event of (drastic, such as yours) power restriction, other than when the batteries have got right down to the designated 'restricted zone ' - sorry, I've gone blank on what percentage it is. That, was traced back to the radiator fan not working. I think a connector had come loose, or was dodgy. So, said bike did what yours is doing, until the problem was found. I wasn't there at the time, so can't give accurate details of the problem / solution.
It must Truly be disappointing to have the problems you've described, I hope it gets resolved.
I like the Stark Varg almost as much as I like my old Dinosaur of a bike - well, it's trending towards my liking them more. I hope to get back to a very basic ride on them and the Old Teddy Bear of a bike around New Years Day, a tradition I've tried to stick to for many years.
Motor and inverter are liquid cooled, the battery is not.
That being said I'm not sure if the light specifically indicates battery temp ?
I know that. My company designed the friggin thing. Still, the motor is most prone to overheat.
Post a reply to: Stark Varg is just a Toy