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Edited Date/Time
9/25/2024 7:22am
Could be clickbait, but someone called in this local (to me) podcast claiming KR is helping Yamaha develop a 350 and will be racing it next year in XC1 GNCC. I've heard that Randy Hawkins, owner of AMPRO Yamaha has been begging Yamaha to make one for years and was told no. I wonder if he finally convinced them they could take sales away from KTM?
Hope it’s true so maybe Honda can jump on that to.
I really want a 350, but not a austrian one…
I dropped the Russell coming back to GNCC on a Yamaha nugget last week. I've heard about it for a bit now but everything I've been told is YZ250F in XC1.
I think its just someone speculating, no less than 10 of my buddies have sent me this damn video also.
It seems like if Yamaha wanted to make a 350 they already would be doing so, its not rocket science to put a bigger cylinder on a 250.
I'd buy one tomorrow but sadly I think manufacturers will be releasing electric bikes before they make 350's. It's a bloody shame.
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Hope all manufactures do. Then MXDN can have a a real open class. MX2, MX1, open. 250, 350, 450.
In all seriousness though. Do you guys think there’s a big enough market for manufactures to produce another bike? Is it as simple as slapping. 350 motor in a 250 or 450 frame, or do they test and build completely different tooling to make a different frame?
You, me, and most of my buddies in the pit.
I've owned three 350's and hated everyone of them. Just wore me out trying to race them in the woods. I always did much better on a 250/300 2stk. Given the right rider/conditions I can definitely see their advantage though.
The austrian one is just a big bore 250 in the same frame etc.
So the guy that must remain nameless read on Vital that Kailub Russell is going to Yamaha and then added his own spin that it must be to develop a 350. Where can I place my deposit? lol
It's not just a big bore. Different crank, stroke, piston, transmission. I believe the cams are different too. Not sure on valvetran.
The last part of your comment is why i felt electric Bikes from the big 4 is being held back... If you sold an electric bike then you wouldn't need multiple engine sizes and bikes... I'm still a gas bike fan but that's what i always thought.
Main shaft gears are different part numbers between the 250 and 350. The counter shaft gears have some common part numbers.
I’d bet most of, if not all, the Japanese manufacturers have some sort of 350 development done. Whether that is just on paper or an actual built motorcycle is anyone’s guess though. Just like Yamaha did with the 150 to compete with Honda, they probably haven’t been able to justify releasing a 350.
My point was that it’s based out of the 250 engine and chassis.
Just like the 150 is based on a 125 but with different cdi, exhaust, crank, piston, cylinder etc.
The old italian Husky fourstrokes were made to be able to use multiple displacements on the same cases.
So it don’t have to be a complete new bike for the japanese brands if they make room in the cases for a crank with longer stroke the next time they design a new 250 engine.
I wonder if the reason the Japs haven't built a 350 is because it will take away sales from the 250/450? In terms of leadership I would put Yamaha and Honda at the top for having their ducks in a row. KTM not so much and that's coming from a KTM/Husky owner. I think KTM would build any size bike if they thought it would sell regardless of the impact on other models they produce. I don't see the Jap's doing that thus why they haven't built one yet, and may never. I'm not drinking what the video I posted is serving, I was just looking to spark some conversations.
I just bought a 24 FC 350 and said it will be the last bike I ever buy brand new.
I will be 56 in December but dam I would most likely buy a Yamaha if they were to make one.
How difficult and how big of a big bore kit can you put on a 250f anyway?
290cc seems to be the largest you can go on a Honda 250f.
Pit Row
I had a 2020 250sxf and I believe the biggest bore those cases would handle was a 270. In the woods it was a handful too, not near as smooth as a 350 but the 350 had way more torque.
The japanese brands look for the american market and ktm look over the whole world.
For many years the typical american way would be the bigger the better and why would riders choose a 350 in the 450 class even if Cairoli won mxgp titles on one.
But in the later years the 350 has become more popular in the US and many VET riders seems to love them. So hopefully that could change the mind a little regarding a 350 when the americans starts to buy them.
The Honda crf red moto enduro bikes that are built in italy and can be bought in europe can be bought as a 300 (290cc) and 400 (413cc) and with the regular 250 and 450 sizes. They use athena kits to change the displacement.
But the 300 and 400 seems more popular than the 250 and 450. I have a 400 but that feels like a small 450 and i’d rather have the feeling of a large 250.
KTM 350 has a bigger bore and a longer stroke, thats why it feels much better than a big bore 250.
Generally a bigger bore to stroke ratio will make more power, faster revving vs a longer stroke will have more torque and be slower revving.
The 350 has a closer ratio to the 450 than it does the 250.
If yamaha was smart they would make a 380-390 and call it the YZ400F. It would sell out and the 450 would be a pro mx/sx flat track choice.
And actually I would not be surprised if at 380 or 390cc that you wouldn't see them used in pro sx and mx over the ktm 350. 30-40 cc in a modern bike is enough to bridge alot of the gap to the 450's now a days. Hell the 350 makes comparable hp 50.5 and 26.6 on the 350 and 56.4 and 34.6 for the 450
A YZ380 or YZ390 will at least split those numbers. Then a built or factory bike should be a give or take vs a 450
I think if all manufactures made a 350 it would be each companies highest selling bike. Almost all Vet riders (Myself included) would probably have one. I think their bigger concern would be the sales being take away from the 450. Honestly the only market for a 450 at that point (IMO) would be for serious Vet racers and maybe some young serious racers. Also some of the bigger dudes might still buy them
My prediction is a 350 Yamaha would sell great! Yes it would take some 250/450 sales, but the total would be higher as they would take some of Austrian 350 sales.
Done right it would require a mostly new motor, but most of the rest of the bike would crossover.
The KTMs 250,350 and 450 all have the same frame. The Yamaha 250 and 450 have the same frame also.
Seriously? Looking back over his career with KTM, the support KTM gives his training facility in Florida, the financial impact KTM has on his family's GNCC series, I find it hard to believe he's in bed with Yamaha. Of course, he might, just to piss off Stew Baylor... Someone needs to ask Carrie Coombs-Russell, quick.
Yamaha started with a 400🤣 the ole 426 that kicked like a mule
We need to get rid of 450s anyway and make 350 the limit for the premier class. The manufacturers should be all over this because it will sell more bikes.
And us off road racers...don't forget about us! We'd still buy 450's.
Though if any Jap brand made a 350, I'd buy one...especially if Yamaha made one...I think my next bike will be either a KTM 350 or a Beta 300 2-stroke...but a 350 yamaha would trump both of those choices.
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