Is this a changing point in our sport?

9/11/2024 7:51pm
Lay off the paint huffing. In what fantasy were 90's riders much better riders? Technique has advanced so much since then. Those guys look like C...

Lay off the paint huffing. In what fantasy were 90's riders much better riders? Technique has advanced so much since then. Those guys look like C riders compared to current pros. Even Dungey said techniques had changed a lot when he came out of retirement and he was sitting down too much. He was only retired 5yrs. But 25yrs ago they were better riders? 

MxAddic wrote:

C riders huh? Sure..

Exciting race with a lot of racing much better track design than todays tracks. I was in Morgantown today Ohio b4 that. Then went threw Mt Morris threw  Pitsburgh etc.  I wish DC would get a National in the hillbilly WV. So many huge valleys in the big hills & mtns.  Chad Johnson a late 90,s to early 2000,s won both motos at a pro am on a stock bike this yr. 

5
Not hillbilly
Posts
1345
Joined
6/8/2024
Location
Gaithersburg, MD, USA
9/11/2024 8:18pm

Care to elaborate? Not saying you’re wrong, just don’t know what they should do to be more like stick and ball sports

I’ve given this a lot of thought, and have actually written essays about it, but I’m too tired to get into it right now. But if...

I’ve given this a lot of thought, and have actually written essays about it, but I’m too tired to get into it right now. But if you look at major leagues, they focus on home teams that have home facilities that not only have more than one major event a year, they are multi use, so the home team owners can maximize profits.

With this model, multiple cities/ regions are involved, each with their own team.

League play is team versus team. If you follow the model set by the NFL, most of the events take place simultaneously on one day. Considering the physicality of MX/SX, that probably makes more sense than say the MLB model of holding events every other day or so.

In any case, the point is to multiply everything: more teams mean more jobs for riders and crew members and facility workers; holding multiple events simultaneously means more races/tickets sold without having to have a ridiculously long season.

Y’all can take it from there. European Speedway has been doing this forever.

So I am clear, you are proposing a league model that looks like… an Aldon vs Star race in FL, on the same day/time as a...

So I am clear, you are proposing a league model that looks like… an Aldon vs Star race in FL, on the same day/time as a PC vs HRC race in SoCal?

 

That’s the gist of it, but more teams/locations/events. And just like NFL, you go to or watch your favorite live, then catch up on the others later (if you want). Then post -season playoffs, etc.

6
Herr Lich
Posts
2568
Joined
7/11/2023
Location
Sydney, NSW, AU
9/11/2024 8:49pm
I have always said, if this sport really wants the big bucks, then they need to drop the traveling circus business model and adopt the league...

I have always said, if this sport really wants the big bucks, then they need to drop the traveling circus business model and adopt the league play business model used to great effect by the big stick and ball leagues. 

Care to elaborate? Not saying you’re wrong, just don’t know what they should do to be more like stick and ball sports

Moto just can't be compared to stick and ball sports. The whole infrastructure around them is completely different. Moto can only be usefully compared to other motorsports. 

3
Herr Lich
Posts
2568
Joined
7/11/2023
Location
Sydney, NSW, AU
9/11/2024 8:54pm
I don’t think anything will change from a schedule perspective, but Lewis talking about MXGPs training compared to the US was eye opening I do think overtime...

I don’t think anything will change from a schedule perspective, but Lewis talking about MXGPs training compared to the US was eye opening 


I do think overtime you will start to see riders relax on their training programs, we won’t ever go back to the 90s program, but the daily grind won’t be there forever

The late 90,s riders rode a lot more than todays riders. That’s why they  where much better riders . Check out the best free ride vid...

The late 90,s riders rode a lot more than todays riders. That’s why they  where much better riders . Check out the best free ride vid ever, McGrath hit every jump in dozens of different ways and did impossible cliff jumps.  Most talented rider ever most say he was born to ride a bike. Ever see him ride and you would agree.  People say they didn’t train but they did just not like the robots of today.  MC was more ripped than any pro now.  Emig hell all of them.  I think the sx riders pay should get clipped and sent to a 125 pro series.  Arenacross is 100 % more exciting than sx , throw some sx money there too.  The pro ams get the purses up and add a points fund, there a much better event than sx.  If it wasn’t for fan boyz no one would really care about sx boring series. IMG 0887

Lay off the paint huffing. In what fantasy were 90's riders much better riders? Technique has advanced so much since then. Those guys look like C...

Lay off the paint huffing. In what fantasy were 90's riders much better riders? Technique has advanced so much since then. Those guys look like C riders compared to current pros. Even Dungey said techniques had changed a lot when he came out of retirement and he was sitting down too much. He was only retired 5yrs. But 25yrs ago they were better riders? 

This guy has run out of glue bags, paint stripper and petrol. 

9
1

The Shop

Not hillbilly
Posts
1345
Joined
6/8/2024
Location
Gaithersburg, MD, USA
9/11/2024 9:47pm
I have always said, if this sport really wants the big bucks, then they need to drop the traveling circus business model and adopt the league...

I have always said, if this sport really wants the big bucks, then they need to drop the traveling circus business model and adopt the league play business model used to great effect by the big stick and ball leagues. 

Care to elaborate? Not saying you’re wrong, just don’t know what they should do to be more like stick and ball sports

Herr Lich wrote:
Moto just can't be compared to stick and ball sports. The whole infrastructure around them is completely different. Moto can only be usefully compared to other...

Moto just can't be compared to stick and ball sports. The whole infrastructure around them is completely different. Moto can only be usefully compared to other motorsports. 

I am not making a comparison, sport vs sport. I am suggesting a different business model for extracting profit than the current, one-race-at-a-time, 30 weeks on the road circus… er, circuit.

1
3
Pop Shmoke
Posts
2173
Joined
6/17/2020
Location
Boston, MA, USA
9/12/2024 1:59am
I don’t think anything will change from a schedule perspective, but Lewis talking about MXGPs training compared to the US was eye opening I do think overtime...

I don’t think anything will change from a schedule perspective, but Lewis talking about MXGPs training compared to the US was eye opening 


I do think overtime you will start to see riders relax on their training programs, we won’t ever go back to the 90s program, but the daily grind won’t be there forever

Pop Shmoke wrote:
Exactly, Id encourage everybody to listen to the pulp podcast from today because they dug in super deep about the compounds. Lewis said without mentioning his...

Exactly, Id encourage everybody to listen to the pulp podcast from today because they dug in super deep about the compounds. Lewis said without mentioning his name that herlings basically just rides his dirt bike for hours and hours and hours and then shows up to every single off season race he possibly can instead of doing tons and tons of bicycle riding or working out and that works for him obviously but if he came to the us he would be told hes doing it wrong and needs to follow aldons program. He also said that lots of the gp guys are able to take days off or even a week off here and there without getting yelled at or made to feel like theyre slacking. Obviously its not hurting them at all in fitness so theres different ways to skin a cat. 

Weimer was saying that its not so much how many races they do its only once per week but all of the training every day with 0 days off that really wears ppl out by the end of the year. So it seems like in a lot of cases its not even how many races the guys are doing thats burning them out its the training compounds during the week. We all know rv retired basically to stop having to do aldons program another year. I think theres really something to this. 

OFalk280 wrote:
I feel like you’re acting like at the 450 level the trainers are actually the ones running the show. Here’s the convenient part about being a...

I feel like you’re acting like at the 450 level the trainers are actually the ones running the show. Here’s the convenient part about being a 450 guy (short of within KTM group for now), generally they choose their own trainer…they don’t like 50 weeks of boot camp and think that it would benefit them to relax for some time? Hire a trainer that agrees with that…250 guys don’t have the same luxury sometimes on the factory outfits, but they also don’t race the 31 races that 450 guys do.

I’m  not acting like anything, I just gave a summary of the conversation lewis, jake, and steve had on the show today. They also had justin cooper call in mid convo who is not an aldon guy and he had a long conversation about how he is not allowed to take any days off and at star you have to follow the group program and for him that works because it is his style but he can see how for other guys who dont work good in that situation it would hinder them. The first thing I said in my comment was Id encourage ppl to listen to that convo because if not its kinda hard to have a conversation about what they were talking about. 

2
9/12/2024 3:06am
The late 90,s riders rode a lot more than todays riders. That’s why they  where much better riders . Check out the best free ride vid...

The late 90,s riders rode a lot more than todays riders. That’s why they  where much better riders . Check out the best free ride vid ever, McGrath hit every jump in dozens of different ways and did impossible cliff jumps.  Most talented rider ever most say he was born to ride a bike. Ever see him ride and you would agree.  People say they didn’t train but they did just not like the robots of today.  MC was more ripped than any pro now.  Emig hell all of them.  I think the sx riders pay should get clipped and sent to a 125 pro series.  Arenacross is 100 % more exciting than sx , throw some sx money there too.  The pro ams get the purses up and add a points fund, there a much better event than sx.  If it wasn’t for fan boyz no one would really care about sx boring series. IMG 0887

Lay off the paint huffing. In what fantasy were 90's riders much better riders? Technique has advanced so much since then. Those guys look like C...

Lay off the paint huffing. In what fantasy were 90's riders much better riders? Technique has advanced so much since then. Those guys look like C riders compared to current pros. Even Dungey said techniques had changed a lot when he came out of retirement and he was sitting down too much. He was only retired 5yrs. But 25yrs ago they were better riders? 

Mike Brown beats a lot young guys when he races the pro classes.  Mike is a 90,s rider.  A 2nd place 250f rider today would fight...

Mike Brown beats a lot young guys when he races the pro classes.  Mike is a 90,s rider.  A 2nd place 250f rider today would fight to get in the top 10 in 95-99.  They lost the art of corner speed .  No one does the big scrub anymore because it doesn’t shave time off a lap. So what advances r there in riding ?  Staying low off jumps ?  No one is as good as MC today at it.  All the tracks r easier now nothing technical about them. 

image 47.gif?VersionId=eIScTjrOZAuhIkGcbZuknkH0B
7
OFalk280
Posts
327
Joined
6/27/2012
Location
Elwood, IL, USA
9/12/2024 4:31am
Pop Shmoke wrote:
Exactly, Id encourage everybody to listen to the pulp podcast from today because they dug in super deep about the compounds. Lewis said without mentioning his...

Exactly, Id encourage everybody to listen to the pulp podcast from today because they dug in super deep about the compounds. Lewis said without mentioning his name that herlings basically just rides his dirt bike for hours and hours and hours and then shows up to every single off season race he possibly can instead of doing tons and tons of bicycle riding or working out and that works for him obviously but if he came to the us he would be told hes doing it wrong and needs to follow aldons program. He also said that lots of the gp guys are able to take days off or even a week off here and there without getting yelled at or made to feel like theyre slacking. Obviously its not hurting them at all in fitness so theres different ways to skin a cat. 

Weimer was saying that its not so much how many races they do its only once per week but all of the training every day with 0 days off that really wears ppl out by the end of the year. So it seems like in a lot of cases its not even how many races the guys are doing thats burning them out its the training compounds during the week. We all know rv retired basically to stop having to do aldons program another year. I think theres really something to this. 

OFalk280 wrote:
I feel like you’re acting like at the 450 level the trainers are actually the ones running the show. Here’s the convenient part about being a...

I feel like you’re acting like at the 450 level the trainers are actually the ones running the show. Here’s the convenient part about being a 450 guy (short of within KTM group for now), generally they choose their own trainer…they don’t like 50 weeks of boot camp and think that it would benefit them to relax for some time? Hire a trainer that agrees with that…250 guys don’t have the same luxury sometimes on the factory outfits, but they also don’t race the 31 races that 450 guys do.

Pop Shmoke wrote:
I’m  not acting like anything, I just gave a summary of the conversation lewis, jake, and steve had on the show today. They also had justin...

I’m  not acting like anything, I just gave a summary of the conversation lewis, jake, and steve had on the show today. They also had justin cooper call in mid convo who is not an aldon guy and he had a long conversation about how he is not allowed to take any days off and at star you have to follow the group program and for him that works because it is his style but he can see how for other guys who dont work good in that situation it would hinder them. The first thing I said in my comment was Id encourage ppl to listen to that convo because if not its kinda hard to have a conversation about what they were talking about. 

“So it seems like in a lot of cases its not even how many races the guys are doing thats burning them out its the training compounds during the week. We all know rv retired basically to stop having to do aldons program another year. I think theres really something to this.”


Sure sounds like your opinion and not just a recap of the conversation. Is Justin Cooper forced to train with Star’s trainer? Or is he just not allowed days off as a result of him choosing to continue with Star’s trainer? Sure seems like Tomac isn’t training with Star…(yes I get it Tomac should be allowed certain liberties no matter what)

3
9/12/2024 4:54am
The late 90,s riders rode a lot more than todays riders. That’s why they  where much better riders . Check out the best free ride vid...

The late 90,s riders rode a lot more than todays riders. That’s why they  where much better riders . Check out the best free ride vid ever, McGrath hit every jump in dozens of different ways and did impossible cliff jumps.  Most talented rider ever most say he was born to ride a bike. Ever see him ride and you would agree.  People say they didn’t train but they did just not like the robots of today.  MC was more ripped than any pro now.  Emig hell all of them.  I think the sx riders pay should get clipped and sent to a 125 pro series.  Arenacross is 100 % more exciting than sx , throw some sx money there too.  The pro ams get the purses up and add a points fund, there a much better event than sx.  If it wasn’t for fan boyz no one would really care about sx boring series. IMG 0887

Lay off the paint huffing. In what fantasy were 90's riders much better riders? Technique has advanced so much since then. Those guys look like C...

Lay off the paint huffing. In what fantasy were 90's riders much better riders? Technique has advanced so much since then. Those guys look like C riders compared to current pros. Even Dungey said techniques had changed a lot when he came out of retirement and he was sitting down too much. He was only retired 5yrs. But 25yrs ago they were better riders? 

Mike Brown beats a lot young guys when he races the pro classes.  Mike is a 90,s rider.  A 2nd place 250f rider today would fight...

Mike Brown beats a lot young guys when he races the pro classes.  Mike is a 90,s rider.  A 2nd place 250f rider today would fight to get in the top 10 in 95-99.  They lost the art of corner speed .  No one does the big scrub anymore because it doesn’t shave time off a lap. So what advances r there in riding ?  Staying low off jumps ?  No one is as good as MC today at it.  All the tracks r easier now nothing technical about them. 

You do realize that Mike Brown credits training to his success, right? He trains more than the kids he coaches and has been doing it since 1994. 

I’m not the fastest guy out there, and I never was, but racing is about being smart, making the right choices and keeping up with the training.” - Mike Brown

https://motocrossactionmag.com/mike-brown-interview-im-not-the-fastest-…

yz133rider
Posts
5027
Joined
8/1/2013
Location
Avondale, PA, USA
9/12/2024 4:58am
I wasn’t aware that Dungee was the bench mark of the sport .  Is he the fastest most winning rider ever with the highest level of...

I wasn’t aware that Dungee was the bench mark of the sport .  Is he the fastest most winning rider ever with the highest level of talent?   Huffman could beat Dungee easily. Larocco, Larry Ward  , etc

Dungey is 2nd ALL TIME in Mx wins…

7
ATKpilot99
Posts
10500
Joined
4/13/2010
Location
Lake Geneva, WI, USA
9/12/2024 5:22am
I wasn’t aware that Dungee was the bench mark of the sport .  Is he the fastest most winning rider ever with the highest level of...

I wasn’t aware that Dungee was the bench mark of the sport .  Is he the fastest most winning rider ever with the highest level of talent?   Huffman could beat Dungee easily. Larocco, Larry Ward  , etc

9516c6f4809ef12138d80120054556f5 w200.gif?VersionId=AxMIDVwlZl6v9uy
6
1
9/12/2024 6:06am
I don’t think anything will change from a schedule perspective, but Lewis talking about MXGPs training compared to the US was eye opening I do think overtime...

I don’t think anything will change from a schedule perspective, but Lewis talking about MXGPs training compared to the US was eye opening 


I do think overtime you will start to see riders relax on their training programs, we won’t ever go back to the 90s program, but the daily grind won’t be there forever

The late 90,s riders rode a lot more than todays riders. That’s why they  where much better riders . Check out the best free ride vid...

The late 90,s riders rode a lot more than todays riders. That’s why they  where much better riders . Check out the best free ride vid ever, McGrath hit every jump in dozens of different ways and did impossible cliff jumps.  Most talented rider ever most say he was born to ride a bike. Ever see him ride and you would agree.  People say they didn’t train but they did just not like the robots of today.  MC was more ripped than any pro now.  Emig hell all of them.  I think the sx riders pay should get clipped and sent to a 125 pro series.  Arenacross is 100 % more exciting than sx , throw some sx money there too.  The pro ams get the purses up and add a points fund, there a much better event than sx.  If it wasn’t for fan boyz no one would really care about sx boring series. IMG 0887

You fanboying about Mcgrath then in the same breath saying SX is only popular because of the fanboys is pretty methed up. 

Im sorry, how many outdoor titles does Mcgrath have? He has one. You know why he has that one title? Because he got tired of the other riders beating him as they were in better shape. What did he do to win that one outdoor title….? 

…..He trained. 

1
1
motomike137
Posts
8180
Joined
4/22/2010
Location
Fenton, MI, USA
9/12/2024 6:24am
Falcon wrote:
^I'm with you, mgif. I know these guys train hard, race hard, sacrifice, travel, etc. But so do I. You know how many weeks a year...

^I'm with you, mgif. I know these guys train hard, race hard, sacrifice, travel, etc. But so do I. You know how many weeks a year I work? 50. And my job is not nearly as fun as racing. 

 

Falcon, I used to work 50 weeks myself. But my occupation didn't entail risking serious injury or even my life on a daily basis. As a fan I hate to give up any viewing opportunities but if I were a pro racer at the highest level, I can see their point. I think we are actually seeing moto in a moment where things can and will change, mature and grow. I'd like to see the playoff grow and mature with maybe even a natural track thrown in the mix and the regular season shrink a little. Maybe 20 regular season rounds and 5 playoff rounds. I know one thing; this playoff and the purse money has gotten the attention of the riders and motivated them.

3
1
MxAddic
Posts
5308
Joined
11/24/2022
Location
USA
9/12/2024 6:43am

I think the changing point for the sport is when the jumps became too challenging for the average rider to participate in a way they consider meaningful. 

2
zookrider62!
Posts
6825
Joined
12/22/2008
Location
Plano, TX, USA
9/12/2024 8:46am
MxAddic wrote:
I think the changing point for the sport is when the jumps became too challenging for the average rider to participate in a way they consider...

I think the changing point for the sport is when the jumps became too challenging for the average rider to participate in a way they consider meaningful. 

Interesting, by all accounts local tracks have become easier and easier

2
zookrider62!
Posts
6825
Joined
12/22/2008
Location
Plano, TX, USA
9/12/2024 8:50am Edited Date/Time 9/12/2024 8:50am

Care to elaborate? Not saying you’re wrong, just don’t know what they should do to be more like stick and ball sports

I’ve given this a lot of thought, and have actually written essays about it, but I’m too tired to get into it right now. But if...

I’ve given this a lot of thought, and have actually written essays about it, but I’m too tired to get into it right now. But if you look at major leagues, they focus on home teams that have home facilities that not only have more than one major event a year, they are multi use, so the home team owners can maximize profits.

With this model, multiple cities/ regions are involved, each with their own team.

League play is team versus team. If you follow the model set by the NFL, most of the events take place simultaneously on one day. Considering the physicality of MX/SX, that probably makes more sense than say the MLB model of holding events every other day or so.

In any case, the point is to multiply everything: more teams mean more jobs for riders and crew members and facility workers; holding multiple events simultaneously means more races/tickets sold without having to have a ridiculously long season.

Y’all can take it from there. European Speedway has been doing this forever.

So I am clear, you are proposing a league model that looks like… an Aldon vs Star race in FL, on the same day/time as a...

So I am clear, you are proposing a league model that looks like… an Aldon vs Star race in FL, on the same day/time as a PC vs HRC race in SoCal?

 

Interesting philosophy, but I don’t think there’s enough riders to support it. You’d have to merge all factory/factory support/privateer teams to make this work 


Essentially a team Honda, team Yamaha, etc racetrack/stadium, which would mean like 10 teams at absolute top 


I don’t think anyone would go watch a 4 vs 4 race, and let’s pretend we got to 10 teams of 10 riders


That’s only 10 cities that would get to watch live, and I don’t think you could sell out a stadium, or even an arena 15+ times a year

3
1
MxAddic
Posts
5308
Joined
11/24/2022
Location
USA
9/12/2024 12:49pm
MxAddic wrote:
I think the changing point for the sport is when the jumps became too challenging for the average rider to participate in a way they consider...

I think the changing point for the sport is when the jumps became too challenging for the average rider to participate in a way they consider meaningful. 

Interesting, by all accounts local tracks have become easier and easier

Maybe they have figured it out.

motomike137
Posts
8180
Joined
4/22/2010
Location
Fenton, MI, USA
9/12/2024 3:17pm
MxAddic wrote:
I think the changing point for the sport is when the jumps became too challenging for the average rider to participate in a way they consider...

I think the changing point for the sport is when the jumps became too challenging for the average rider to participate in a way they consider meaningful. 

Interesting, by all accounts local tracks have become easier and easier

If you mean the jumps have become safer, I will buy that. They don't build any death triples anymore that I know of. They have also fine-tuned the track lengths to get a certain lap time and maybe even done away with some really technical stuff for flow on the four strokes. They do however get choppy, rutty and rough as hell. 

zookrider62!
Posts
6825
Joined
12/22/2008
Location
Plano, TX, USA
9/12/2024 3:26pm Edited Date/Time 9/12/2024 3:28pm
MxAddic wrote:
I think the changing point for the sport is when the jumps became too challenging for the average rider to participate in a way they consider...

I think the changing point for the sport is when the jumps became too challenging for the average rider to participate in a way they consider meaningful. 

Interesting, by all accounts local tracks have become easier and easier

If you mean the jumps have become safer, I will buy that. They don't build any death triples anymore that I know of. They have also...

If you mean the jumps have become safer, I will buy that. They don't build any death triples anymore that I know of. They have also fine-tuned the track lengths to get a certain lap time and maybe even done away with some really technical stuff for flow on the four strokes. They do however get choppy, rutty and rough as hell. 

Yeah, I meant specifically the jumps. Before my time, but I’ve heard how technical 90s tracks were, and in the early 2000s I remember tracks with big booters and technical jumps that were costly if you came up short


Don’t go to tracks anymore, but what I’ve seen from videos, most tracks don’t have nearly as many gap jumps, still some huge jumps, but you won’t die if you come up short



2010ish or so, a local track had a small step-up followed by a decent table. After the table the elevation dropped naturally, so riders would clear the table and land on the natural down slop



I suggested that they build up the right side of the step up so fast riders (not me) could land on the table, and then make the right side of the table a step-off

Track owner wanted nothing to do with it, essentially the bikes are good enough now that if something is jumpable, people who shouldn’t go for it, go for it.


I think most track owners would rather keep the track tame to reduce risk of litigation 

davis224
Posts
7570
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Cornland, IL, USA
Fantasy
9/12/2024 4:06pm

Emig didn't actually get vertigo from flying in the fighter jet, he got it from riding along in an 18 wheeler in the northeast.

2
Not hillbilly
Posts
1345
Joined
6/8/2024
Location
Gaithersburg, MD, USA
9/12/2024 7:12pm
I’ve given this a lot of thought, and have actually written essays about it, but I’m too tired to get into it right now. But if...

I’ve given this a lot of thought, and have actually written essays about it, but I’m too tired to get into it right now. But if you look at major leagues, they focus on home teams that have home facilities that not only have more than one major event a year, they are multi use, so the home team owners can maximize profits.

With this model, multiple cities/ regions are involved, each with their own team.

League play is team versus team. If you follow the model set by the NFL, most of the events take place simultaneously on one day. Considering the physicality of MX/SX, that probably makes more sense than say the MLB model of holding events every other day or so.

In any case, the point is to multiply everything: more teams mean more jobs for riders and crew members and facility workers; holding multiple events simultaneously means more races/tickets sold without having to have a ridiculously long season.

Y’all can take it from there. European Speedway has been doing this forever.

So I am clear, you are proposing a league model that looks like… an Aldon vs Star race in FL, on the same day/time as a...

So I am clear, you are proposing a league model that looks like… an Aldon vs Star race in FL, on the same day/time as a PC vs HRC race in SoCal?

 

Interesting philosophy, but I don’t think there’s enough riders to support it. You’d have to merge all factory/factory support/privateer teams to make this work Essentially a team...

Interesting philosophy, but I don’t think there’s enough riders to support it. You’d have to merge all factory/factory support/privateer teams to make this work 


Essentially a team Honda, team Yamaha, etc racetrack/stadium, which would mean like 10 teams at absolute top 


I don’t think anyone would go watch a 4 vs 4 race, and let’s pretend we got to 10 teams of 10 riders


That’s only 10 cities that would get to watch live, and I don’t think you could sell out a stadium, or even an arena 15+ times a year

You’re absolutely right, there’s no way it would work with the current number of riders, but that’s the point. It would have to expand, providing more opportunities for riders and support staff. Teams would be larger. 4 vs 4 is not enough, but a night program of 6 vs 6 (x 2 engine classes), along with support races (i.e. Futures and/or local A class amateurs… and you have an interesting couple of hours at the races. Then you go home and watch the highlights from the other races you didn’t attend.


It would be a totally different experience. Supercross doesn’t have to involve spending an entire day at the stadium just to see two main events. The current business model is designed to milk as much cash out of the audience as possible, because each facility gets one shot at it every season. In league play, each facility will hold multiple events throughout the season.


As for facilities being used, that would have to change, too. The big stadiums are designed for entirety different sports, and their schedules will not accommodate a SC league. So promoter/team owners  will need other venues that will permit more control over scheduling and the like. Facilities purpose-built for the sport would be best, but even re-purposing existing structures, such as minor league ballparks, could work. Going after municipal funds with the promise of bringing jobs and fan revenue in is the game the big league guys play; this should be a goal of a motorsports league as well.

Finally, the racing will no longer be as predictable as watching the same 20 guys race each other every week, with the fast dude always winning and every one else fighting for scraps. Sure, the top teams will have the top talent, but the matchups will change every weekend and make it more fun.

1
2
Soul Indigo
Posts
933
Joined
5/25/2023
Location
Phuket, TH
9/12/2024 11:13pm
So I am clear, you are proposing a league model that looks like… an Aldon vs Star race in FL, on the same day/time as a...

So I am clear, you are proposing a league model that looks like… an Aldon vs Star race in FL, on the same day/time as a PC vs HRC race in SoCal?

 

Interesting philosophy, but I don’t think there’s enough riders to support it. You’d have to merge all factory/factory support/privateer teams to make this work Essentially a team...

Interesting philosophy, but I don’t think there’s enough riders to support it. You’d have to merge all factory/factory support/privateer teams to make this work 


Essentially a team Honda, team Yamaha, etc racetrack/stadium, which would mean like 10 teams at absolute top 


I don’t think anyone would go watch a 4 vs 4 race, and let’s pretend we got to 10 teams of 10 riders


That’s only 10 cities that would get to watch live, and I don’t think you could sell out a stadium, or even an arena 15+ times a year

You’re absolutely right, there’s no way it would work with the current number of riders, but that’s the point. It would have to expand, providing more...

You’re absolutely right, there’s no way it would work with the current number of riders, but that’s the point. It would have to expand, providing more opportunities for riders and support staff. Teams would be larger. 4 vs 4 is not enough, but a night program of 6 vs 6 (x 2 engine classes), along with support races (i.e. Futures and/or local A class amateurs… and you have an interesting couple of hours at the races. Then you go home and watch the highlights from the other races you didn’t attend.


It would be a totally different experience. Supercross doesn’t have to involve spending an entire day at the stadium just to see two main events. The current business model is designed to milk as much cash out of the audience as possible, because each facility gets one shot at it every season. In league play, each facility will hold multiple events throughout the season.


As for facilities being used, that would have to change, too. The big stadiums are designed for entirety different sports, and their schedules will not accommodate a SC league. So promoter/team owners  will need other venues that will permit more control over scheduling and the like. Facilities purpose-built for the sport would be best, but even re-purposing existing structures, such as minor league ballparks, could work. Going after municipal funds with the promise of bringing jobs and fan revenue in is the game the big league guys play; this should be a goal of a motorsports league as well.

Finally, the racing will no longer be as predictable as watching the same 20 guys race each other every week, with the fast dude always winning and every one else fighting for scraps. Sure, the top teams will have the top talent, but the matchups will change every weekend and make it more fun.

I applaud the creativity.

I don’t see it, from a business perspective or a fan perspective.

4
Shakybonez15
Posts
484
Joined
2/3/2023
Location
Killa,Kali, CA, USA
9/13/2024 12:13am

Holy thread derailment. 

Back to the Op’s point. Yea the sport is definitely changing and it needs to change imo.

There are too many races, same issue happening in F1, way too many races.

Supercross should be 10 rounds

Motocross should be 10 rounds

Smx 4 rounds

For a grand total of 24.

=======================

Personally the level of risk these athletes have is 2nd to none. Imo there needs to be a cap on practicing during the week ala f1 style. 

So currently its 17 sx rounds.. allow like 10 practice sessions. No more, have other people do all the testing and such.

Leave training up to the riders.


========================

The older i get. the more disenfranchised i get with the sport. Its needs important changes at multiple levels but the only way to implement any changes is big $$$ and the balls to buck the status quo.


To the people saying its a privilege to race and you work 40hours a week. Your work doesn’t give you a daily life altering risk of injury. Besides maybe driving to work. 

 

3
2
Tumic
Posts
2904
Joined
11/27/2012
Location
Sundsvall, SE
9/13/2024 4:11am
TheMilkman wrote:
Riders aren’t contracted to race the playoff rounds. If they want to sit them out they can. They’re CHOOSING to do the extra races for the...

Riders aren’t contracted to race the playoff rounds. If they want to sit them out they can. They’re CHOOSING to do the extra races for the extra money. 

Not now, but as soon as there is time for a new contract they will be contracted to do it.

Or do you belive that the teams will let this imaginary world championship that we have to hear about the whole effing year from weege and rc during the broadcast just slip away?.

Sure the riders can say no, but so will the teams do to the riders that don’t want to race.


But it’s a luxury problem getting payed milions of dollars doing what you love compared to earning a normal sallary doing what you must to survive.

The difference is that we get each weekend off and they have to work on the weekends to. But they work 10-15years and are sett for life. 

Would be interesting to hear something from Craig or Jmart regarding this that had a short paus and worked some regular jobs between their moto gig what they rather choose to do. 

1
kxking
Posts
1972
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Oakville, Ontario, CA
Fantasy
9/13/2024 4:30am
Holy thread derailment. Back to the Op’s point. Yea the sport is definitely changing and it needs to change imo.There are too many races, same issue happening...

Holy thread derailment. 

Back to the Op’s point. Yea the sport is definitely changing and it needs to change imo.

There are too many races, same issue happening in F1, way too many races.

Supercross should be 10 rounds

Motocross should be 10 rounds

Smx 4 rounds

For a grand total of 24.

=======================

Personally the level of risk these athletes have is 2nd to none. Imo there needs to be a cap on practicing during the week ala f1 style. 

So currently its 17 sx rounds.. allow like 10 practice sessions. No more, have other people do all the testing and such.

Leave training up to the riders.


========================

The older i get. the more disenfranchised i get with the sport. Its needs important changes at multiple levels but the only way to implement any changes is big $$$ and the balls to buck the status quo.


To the people saying its a privilege to race and you work 40hours a week. Your work doesn’t give you a daily life altering risk of injury. Besides maybe driving to work. 

 

That's almost half the SX win bonuses off the table. Less races = less pay, less sponsorship money, less gate revenues, less TV exposure and advertising opportunities.....

You can't grow the sport with less.  

2
motomike137
Posts
8180
Joined
4/22/2010
Location
Fenton, MI, USA
9/13/2024 7:43am
Holy thread derailment. Back to the Op’s point. Yea the sport is definitely changing and it needs to change imo.There are too many races, same issue happening...

Holy thread derailment. 

Back to the Op’s point. Yea the sport is definitely changing and it needs to change imo.

There are too many races, same issue happening in F1, way too many races.

Supercross should be 10 rounds

Motocross should be 10 rounds

Smx 4 rounds

For a grand total of 24.

=======================

Personally the level of risk these athletes have is 2nd to none. Imo there needs to be a cap on practicing during the week ala f1 style. 

So currently its 17 sx rounds.. allow like 10 practice sessions. No more, have other people do all the testing and such.

Leave training up to the riders.


========================

The older i get. the more disenfranchised i get with the sport. Its needs important changes at multiple levels but the only way to implement any changes is big $$$ and the balls to buck the status quo.


To the people saying its a privilege to race and you work 40hours a week. Your work doesn’t give you a daily life altering risk of injury. Besides maybe driving to work. 

 

I'm optimistic about what is going on. SX and MX coming together under one umbrella (at least agreeing to work together into the near future) is a big step and was needed. I had consternation about the playoff, but I see it as a great move as well injecting huge interest and participation at a time of year when everything is waning big time unless there is a tight championship battle. It is going to be tough sledding getting the schedule cut down but even just a few less rounds with some breaks during the year I think could work.

1
9/13/2024 5:21pm
Tumic wrote:
Not now, but as soon as there is time for a new contract they will be contracted to do it.Or do you belive that the teams...

Not now, but as soon as there is time for a new contract they will be contracted to do it.

Or do you belive that the teams will let this imaginary world championship that we have to hear about the whole effing year from weege and rc during the broadcast just slip away?.

Sure the riders can say no, but so will the teams do to the riders that don’t want to race.


But it’s a luxury problem getting payed milions of dollars doing what you love compared to earning a normal sallary doing what you must to survive.

The difference is that we get each weekend off and they have to work on the weekends to. But they work 10-15years and are sett for life. 

Would be interesting to hear something from Craig or Jmart regarding this that had a short paus and worked some regular jobs between their moto gig what they rather choose to do. 

This is like bitching about working overtime while cashing the check. 

Literally everyone would love to work less and get paid more. It’s human nature. But the reality of the situation is if the riders had more time off…they would compete in one off races to pad their personal bank accounts. 

They are professional racers for only a certain amount of time. They need to suck it up and race every opportunity they can to make hay while the sun shines. If they personally feel it’s too much…they can sit out and not make money. But they won’t. That’s life and that’s business.

Complaining about too many opportunities to make money is a bitch move. 

3
1

Post a reply to: Is this a changing point in our sport?

The Latest