So...tomac or plessinger?

KurtJ99
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8/18/2024 5:59pm

I’m not saying who should go, just trying to understand the decision making process. I think this is more on Plessinger at Ironman than Tomac. Tomac will be top 5. If Plessinger is ahead of Tomac, decider’ers say Plessinger. 
If not, Tomac. If Tomac’s championship pedigree was relevant it would already be decided. Maybe it already is, barring an injury in the final round. But that is what alternates are for. Would Tomac be OK being an alternate?  It would be weird. 

dhp_mma94
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8/18/2024 6:17pm

we was there & I zoned in on Eli in specifically, with tht being said , AP is at his max celling & he can’t get any better than where hes at right now, 1st moto ELI was impressive & 2nd moto I watched him come thru the pack before he hit the wall as i expected he would with LIMITED PREP TIME , u can build & work on extra needed base fitness as  the weeks progress , u gotta send ELI 

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MXD
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8/18/2024 6:19pm

AP has not performed well at the MXdN whereas Tomac and Copper have.  I put much more stock in that than I do the points standings.  If Tomac improves next weekend and looks like the trajectory will get him where he needs to be, I think you have to send him.  If not, I’d pick Copper over AP.  

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dhp_mma94
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8/18/2024 6:20pm

also I like to add , this goona be unorthodox but I would send chase , Eli & have J coop drop back to a 250 , resend the 2022 redbud team 

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The Shop

8/18/2024 6:20pm
 Mind blowing the amount of swinging and blind hope here...it is Vital though. Lets pass up the guy who has been in the trenches all year...

 Mind blowing the amount of swinging and blind hope here...it is Vital though. Lets pass up the guy who has been in the trenches all year for a guy that has been MIA till this past weekend. Peoples champ all day long over a perceived knight.  

kpiper wrote:
Because that guy who has been MIA lately is an all-time great, 4x MX champ and prior MXON champion. He is not that old yet either...

Because that guy who has been MIA lately is an all-time great, 4x MX champ and prior MXON champion. He is not that old yet either. Pretty simple choice if he thinks he will be ready. Not mind-blowing at all. 

That makes perfect sense in an idol worship world that many here live in. Hell, lets see if Dungey wants to do it.   

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Herr Lich
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8/18/2024 6:32pm
MXD wrote:
AP has not performed well at the MXdN whereas Tomac and Copper have.  I put much more stock in that than I do the points standings...

AP has not performed well at the MXdN whereas Tomac and Copper have.  I put much more stock in that than I do the points standings.  If Tomac improves next weekend and looks like the trajectory will get him where he needs to be, I think you have to send him.  If not, I’d pick Copper over AP.  

I'd be concerned about AP going, but Tomac hasn't always performed that well at MXDN either - 2018 at Redbud comes to mind.  

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8/18/2024 6:32pm
I love AP but honestly how many meaningful passes has he ever made? Not to mention his MXDN results are quite disappointing.  Give me Jcoop or...

I love AP but honestly how many meaningful passes has he ever made? Not to mention his MXDN results are quite disappointing.  Give me Jcoop or a well rested Eli.  

Guys, anything?? I think he’s a very low pick for us.   Cool a fan favorite. What’s that mean on paper.  If Deegan doesn’t go that might be the last straw I have for him.   I want to like him 

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Herr Lich
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8/18/2024 6:36pm
 Mind blowing the amount of swinging and blind hope here...it is Vital though. Lets pass up the guy who has been in the trenches all year...

 Mind blowing the amount of swinging and blind hope here...it is Vital though. Lets pass up the guy who has been in the trenches all year for a guy that has been MIA till this past weekend. Peoples champ all day long over a perceived knight.  

kpiper wrote:
Because that guy who has been MIA lately is an all-time great, 4x MX champ and prior MXON champion. He is not that old yet either...

Because that guy who has been MIA lately is an all-time great, 4x MX champ and prior MXON champion. He is not that old yet either. Pretty simple choice if he thinks he will be ready. Not mind-blowing at all. 

That makes perfect sense in an idol worship world that many here live in. Hell, lets see if Dungey wants to do it.   

Yes, people need to look at the decision objectively.  The question with Eli is whether he is still as fast as he was (I suspect not - injuries, time-off, and age are hard to defeat) and if he is whether he can get to that speed by the time of the race.  Of course, if he is he absolutely should go.  Peak Eli Tomac is in a whole different stratosphere to AP.  I personally don't think AP has the cold ruthless grit required of a champion.  He's more interested in blowing the fans with his cowboy shtick. 

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Johnny Ringo
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8/18/2024 6:38pm
MXD wrote:
AP has not performed well at the MXdN whereas Tomac and Copper have.  I put much more stock in that than I do the points standings...

AP has not performed well at the MXdN whereas Tomac and Copper have.  I put much more stock in that than I do the points standings.  If Tomac improves next weekend and looks like the trajectory will get him where he needs to be, I think you have to send him.  If not, I’d pick Copper over AP.  

Herr Lich wrote:

I'd be concerned about AP going, but Tomac hasn't always performed that well at MXDN either - 2018 at Redbud comes to mind.  

He went 6-5 or something. AP has one top 10 moto. 

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Herr Lich
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8/18/2024 6:42pm Edited Date/Time 8/18/2024 9:25pm
MXD wrote:
AP has not performed well at the MXdN whereas Tomac and Copper have.  I put much more stock in that than I do the points standings...

AP has not performed well at the MXdN whereas Tomac and Copper have.  I put much more stock in that than I do the points standings.  If Tomac improves next weekend and looks like the trajectory will get him where he needs to be, I think you have to send him.  If not, I’d pick Copper over AP.  

Herr Lich wrote:

I'd be concerned about AP going, but Tomac hasn't always performed that well at MXDN either - 2018 at Redbud comes to mind.  

He went 6-5 or something. AP has one top 10 moto. 

Yep, see about post about AP.  I'm definitely not sold on AP going.  If Eli is not up to scratch to go I'm actually leaning toward J-Coop going. I think he's more focused than AP. 

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kpiper
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8/18/2024 7:12pm Edited Date/Time 8/18/2024 7:14pm
 Mind blowing the amount of swinging and blind hope here...it is Vital though. Lets pass up the guy who has been in the trenches all year...

 Mind blowing the amount of swinging and blind hope here...it is Vital though. Lets pass up the guy who has been in the trenches all year for a guy that has been MIA till this past weekend. Peoples champ all day long over a perceived knight.  

kpiper wrote:
Because that guy who has been MIA lately is an all-time great, 4x MX champ and prior MXON champion. He is not that old yet either...

Because that guy who has been MIA lately is an all-time great, 4x MX champ and prior MXON champion. He is not that old yet either. Pretty simple choice if he thinks he will be ready. Not mind-blowing at all. 

That makes perfect sense in an idol worship world that many here live in. Hell, lets see if Dungey wants to do it.   

You are just wrong on this

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yod292
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8/18/2024 8:05pm

For those of you saying eli is being picked because he is the peoples champ.... 

look at mxon like the post season in the nfl. 

Would you rather have Dak Prescott who has "been in the trenches all year" or tom brady coming back from injury for the last two regular season games leading into the post season... where he has had a lot of success before whereas dak usually chokes hard. There you go. 

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kpiper
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8/18/2024 8:20pm

Don't forget too where this race will be held and that Tomac is our best mud rider. Yes, better than AP in the mud.

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bama205
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8/18/2024 8:47pm

Sexton, Tomac and Cooper or

Sexton Tomac and deegan 


those are championship teams. 

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8/18/2024 8:51pm
Exactly, and he still went like 6-5 or something!!!. Maybe if Eli grew a mullet and spoke in a southern accent everyone would be on board? Maybe...

Exactly, and he still went like 6-5 or something!!!. 

Maybe if Eli grew a mullet and spoke in a southern accent everyone would be on board? Maybe it’s all about attitude?

He actually went 4-5, which at the time seemed terrible but looking back it doesn’t seem that bad all things considered. Not to make excuses for a race that happened six years ago but not only was it on a bike he had barely ridden, that was when Kawasaki added the hydraulic clutch and we all know how partial he is to the cable clutch.

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9bro9
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8/19/2024 12:17am

AP seems to buckle under pressure. Like the guy and all that, but having ET3 is a better option even if he is racing into shape. He's got the experience / resume to get another USA title. I can't say I feel that Plessinger has that, even having as good of a year he's had for himself, he'd be the one to drop a score (or two). 


all the AP mudder talk - SHOW ME results where he's actually done well in the mud on a 450 in MX!? I'll wait. 

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8/19/2024 2:10am
I think if Tomac wants to go you have to send him, his ceiling is just that much higher. Him and Anderson are the only two...

I think if Tomac wants to go you have to send him, his ceiling is just that much higher. Him and Anderson are the only two to win motos for team USA at the race in the past ten years. And not to shit on AP but he hasn’t exactly set the world on fire at the race in the past either.


Edit: I just remembered that Barcia won a moto back in 2015 as well but I think my point still stands

Tomac never won a moto outside the USA 

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ando
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8/19/2024 3:00am

I was curious about Tomac's past performances at MXoN...

He's competed four times - twice at home in 2018 and 2022, and twice overseas in 2013 and 2014.  

Moto results (in chronological order) - 16, 2, 6, 3, 4, 5, 1, 6

Team results - 2, 3, 5, 1

Class results - 4, 3, 3, 2

Overall pretty good but perhaps not as spectacular as some here have been making out.  Also interesting that he hasn't raced overseas in ten years.

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ando
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8/19/2024 3:08am

Big problem for the US if Deegan doesn't go is who's your 250 rider?  I'm assuming Kitchen can't go because of the Kawasaki thing.  After that it looks pretty lean - I guess on points it's probably Hymas?  Next available after that (assuming Masterpool is in the same boat as Kitchen) is Pierce Brown?

I suppose the other option is to get Cooper to drop back to the 250 again.

Australia faces the same problem, I'm assuming our third rider will be Webster after his couple of rides in the US.

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CPR
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8/19/2024 3:53am
ando wrote:
Big problem for the US if Deegan doesn't go is who's your 250 rider?  I'm assuming Kitchen can't go because of the Kawasaki thing.  After that...

Big problem for the US if Deegan doesn't go is who's your 250 rider?  I'm assuming Kitchen can't go because of the Kawasaki thing.  After that it looks pretty lean - I guess on points it's probably Hymas?  Next available after that (assuming Masterpool is in the same boat as Kitchen) is Pierce Brown?

I suppose the other option is to get Cooper to drop back to the 250 again.

Australia faces the same problem, I'm assuming our third rider will be Webster after his couple of rides in the US.

US HRC seems to have no problem supporting MXdN, so if Deegan doesn’t go, Hymas is most likely.

Webster has already been confirmed as Australia’s 250 rider.

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8/19/2024 4:55am

Typical AMA bullshit wait, wait, wait oh we decided on a guy who hasn't raced outdoors in a long time over some riders who have been working their asses off all season. Sexton, Plessinger, Deegan or Hymass, I would not choose Tomac he just hasn't been grinding like these guys. 

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PFitzG38
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8/19/2024 5:33am

How can this even be a question. Tomac had his chance. Now that he’s over the hill he wants to go um…..yeah NO!!

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snillum
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8/19/2024 5:44am

Eli still has essentially 2 months to train. He will be an animal by then. Besides, I'm selfish and want to see a MXGP and open moto with Herlings, Jett, Hunter, Tomac, Sexton, Coldenhoff, Prado, Gasjer, Febvre. Think how epic that will be!

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Johnny Ringo
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8/19/2024 5:45am
Typical AMA bullshit wait, wait, wait oh we decided on a guy who hasn't raced outdoors in a long time over some riders who have been...

Typical AMA bullshit wait, wait, wait oh we decided on a guy who hasn't raced outdoors in a long time over some riders who have been working their asses off all season. Sexton, Plessinger, Deegan or Hymass, I would not choose Tomac he just hasn't been grinding like these guys. 

Almost as if having a fresh guy would be better. Considering AP blamed being “fried” for his 18th last year

FIREfish148
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8/19/2024 5:59am

Gotta go with ET although AP has been riding good.

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8/19/2024 5:14pm Edited Date/Time 8/19/2024 5:24pm

It's unreal that you guys don't see that AP is having a similar season as he did last year. He finished behind the same guys that he's behind now, and add Hunter into the mix. AP is start dependent. If he gets a start outside the top 10 we are dropping his score. He has proven twice that he cannot handle the pressure, despite his character. A 90% Tomac could match a 100% AP. 

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dboivin
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8/19/2024 6:07pm

won't hurt my feelings whoever gets picked. i'm big tomac fan, but i'll always root for AP too. i'd be happy with whichever gets picked. totally ok with it. and have full confidence in the team with either one. 

cwel11
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8/19/2024 6:28pm

Love Tomac but how many years did he choose not to go?  AP this year not even a question. Riding the best he ever has and has earned the spot. 

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Johnny Ringo
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8/19/2024 6:52pm
cwel11 wrote:
Love Tomac but how many years did he choose not to go?  AP this year not even a question. Riding the best he ever has and...

Love Tomac but how many years did he choose not to go?  AP this year not even a question. Riding the best he ever has and has earned the spot. 

I don’t think Tomac has ever turned it down himself. 2015 he was hurt, 2016-2021 he was on Kawi who doesn’t support the event. 

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8/19/2024 6:59pm

He ate shit battling Ken for the lead in 2013 but other than that he has never been as bad as AP at  MXdN. 

His worst performance was when Kawi thought it’d be a good idea to use the race to test the 2019 bike.

Exactly, and he still went like 6-5 or something!!!. Maybe if Eli grew a mullet and spoke in a southern accent everyone would be on board? Maybe...

Exactly, and he still went like 6-5 or something!!!. 

Maybe if Eli grew a mullet and spoke in a southern accent everyone would be on board? Maybe it’s all about attitude?

His before and after race interviews were some of the best he has ever had.  Just look relaxed and happy.  I think he is ready to go.  Thought more people would pick up on that.

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