Will there ever be a dirt bike Made in USA?

Jeremy A.K.
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6/21/2024 9:59am
Dave v3.0 wrote:
Rokon, Cannondale, Cobra, Alta, Harley (designed in US, manufactured in Italy) all had American bikes.  Probably some others I have forgotten.  And I didn't list the...

Rokon, Cannondale, Cobra, Alta, Harley (designed in US, manufactured in Italy) all had American bikes.  Probably some others I have forgotten.  And I didn't list the dozens of minis that were produced here in the 70's.

Labor, raw material costs, and the EPA have pretty much sealed the fate of American manufacturing for the foreseeable future. 

Let’s be clear that the reason “labor” costs are higher in the US is because the cost of living is higher than those nations that have...

Let’s be clear that the reason “labor” costs are higher in the US is because the cost of living is higher than those nations that have lower pay for workers. There are plenty of right to work states where a US manufacturer could hire non-union workers to build their bikes, but good luck getting skilled people to work for starvation wages. If we could figure out how to significantly lower the cost of living, the US could compete effectively.

Employee wages are not what's holding back american manufacturing. 

7
ILoveMoto
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6/21/2024 10:04am
ILoveMoto wrote:

95% of the items sold in Home Depot and Lowes are imported. People want $35 ceiling fans! 🤓 

Dudes are lining up to pop $30k+ on American built side-by-sides.

Yup, and they're financing them too! 😲

5
6/21/2024 10:08am Edited Date/Time 6/21/2024 10:10am
ILoveMoto wrote:

95% of the items sold in Home Depot and Lowes are imported. People want $35 ceiling fans! 🤓 

Dudes are lining up to pop $30k+ on American built side-by-sides.

ILoveMoto wrote:

Yup, and they're financing them too! 😲

So then it isn't just labor, regulatory, or market conditions keeping us from playing.

ILoveMoto
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6/21/2024 10:19am

Dudes are lining up to pop $30k+ on American built side-by-sides.

ILoveMoto wrote:

Yup, and they're financing them too! 😲

So then it isn't just labor, regulatory, or market conditions keeping us from playing.

I'm against financing toys. 

8

The Shop

Forty
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6/21/2024 10:21am

We don't build stuff, we buy stuff.  Drive by anybody USA's garage.  

3
3strokemx
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6/21/2024 10:21am Edited Date/Time 6/21/2024 10:23am
Mossy940 wrote:
Highland MX - This is a story I feel got lost in time and there is hardly ever any discussion of USHighland’s endeavor. If memory serves...

Highland MX -

This is a story I feel got lost in time and there is hardly ever any discussion of USHighland’s endeavor.

If memory serves the bike only made it to a single sanctioned professional(ish) race.

https://www.motorcycle.com/news/us-highland-to-compete-at-xgames-16-898…
 

At the end of the article it gives a synopsis of the 3 executives of the company being killed in a plane crash and ultimately ending the pursuit of building an American made dirtbike….

https://www.motorcycle.com/news/us-highland-executives-die-in-plane-cra…

 

image-20240621132050-12010 GNCC Rd.1,  I think 17th and 21st were Highlands.

Also notice that Aprilla finishing 15th! 

2
Village Idiot
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6/21/2024 10:29am
Forty wrote:

We don't build stuff, we buy stuff.  Drive by anybody USA's garage.  

Buy Back Better.

Has a certain ring to it, no?

Definitely more accurate than its cousin.

1
1
6/21/2024 10:31am
ILoveMoto wrote:

95% of the items sold in Home Depot and Lowes are imported. People want $35 ceiling fans! 🤓 

Dudes are lining up to pop $30k+ on American built side-by-sides.

Yeah "those guys" are fkn stupid. Just buy a truck for the price you're spending on mods and suspension BS..

1
4
6/21/2024 10:38am
ILoveMoto wrote:

95% of the items sold in Home Depot and Lowes are imported. People want $35 ceiling fans! 🤓 

Dudes are lining up to pop $30k+ on American built side-by-sides.

Rosso391 wrote:

Yeah "those guys" are fkn stupid. Just buy a truck for the price you're spending on mods and suspension BS..

Wait til you hear what other folks think about people who spend $11K on a dirt bike...

5
zippytech
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6/21/2024 11:15am

They buy SXS to haul chicks and it takes talent to ride a bike

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1
6/21/2024 11:23am
zippytech wrote:

They buy SXS to haul chicks and it takes talent to ride a bike

Why aren't the ladies men solely going for Indian and Chinese side-by-sides?

I was assured in this thread that we couldn't compete with them (even though neither has really made any impact whatsoever in the competition dirt bike market).

soyMotero
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6/21/2024 11:35am
Dave v3.0 wrote:
You will NEVER be able to lower the cost of living in the US enough to be competitive with countries that have no OHSA, no EPA...

You will NEVER be able to lower the cost of living in the US enough to be competitive with countries that have no OHSA, no EPA, no welfare system, and no minimum wage.  We are now destined to be a service and consumption economy...by design.  Our politicians delight in squashing small businesses with regulations and taxes. 

Japan and Austria both have extensive worker protections and welfare systems. And Italy (TM/Beta/Fantic) and France (Sherco) are vastly more regulated and socialized than the U.S.

Dave v3.0 wrote:
And the Austrian's are now utilizing production facilities in India and China to lower costs. The Japanese have also off-shored production. Everyone in developed countries are...

And the Austrian's are now utilizing production facilities in India and China to lower costs.

The Japanese have also off-shored production.

Everyone in developed countries are stuck trying to compete with the 3rd world countries that can (and WILL) do it for less.

Yes, the Japanese, Austrian, British and Italian manufacturers have production facilities in Asia, you know what they build over there? Cheap 125s, scooters and small bore road or trail motorcycles, those that I've mentioned are the most sold motorcycles in the World, their high end Products (600/1000cc sports and Naked bikes, Big bore Trail bikes and more importantly their Motocross and Enduro bikes) are made on their homeland, the average Motocross riders wants quality, no matter the price, KTM or Honda will be damn sure that the bike that Chase or Jett rides has been built under extreme quality control, because the Motocross customer will buy New bikes no matter the price, as long as they have quality.

As other have mentioned, the countries that build high end motocross bikes (Japan, Austria, UK, Italy and Spain with the Stark Varg) have far more taxes and regulations that the US will ever have, that is not the excuse, the US Industry (Harley, Indian or Can-Am) doesn't care about dirt bikes at all, they make much more money selling choppers or Side by Side UTV. Alta was the only motocross brand that the US had and the biggest american Motorcycle manufacturer, Harley Davidson, decided to kill Alta.

2
1
kawasa84
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6/21/2024 12:04pm
Dave v3.0 wrote:
You will NEVER be able to lower the cost of living in the US enough to be competitive with countries that have no OHSA, no EPA...

You will NEVER be able to lower the cost of living in the US enough to be competitive with countries that have no OHSA, no EPA, no welfare system, and no minimum wage.  We are now destined to be a service and consumption economy...by design.  Our politicians delight in squashing small businesses with regulations and taxes. 

Japan and Austria both have extensive worker protections and welfare systems. And Italy (TM/Beta/Fantic) and France (Sherco) are vastly more regulated and socialized than the U.S.

Dave v3.0 wrote:
And the Austrian's are now utilizing production facilities in India and China to lower costs. The Japanese have also off-shored production. Everyone in developed countries are...

And the Austrian's are now utilizing production facilities in India and China to lower costs.

The Japanese have also off-shored production.

Everyone in developed countries are stuck trying to compete with the 3rd world countries that can (and WILL) do it for less.

Kawasaki Motors has been assembling ATV's in Maryville, Missouri, (about 1 1/2 hours north of Kansas City) for around 40 years. 

4
TeamGreen
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6/21/2024 12:15pm
ILoveMoto wrote:

Yup, and they're financing them too! 😲

So then it isn't just labor, regulatory, or market conditions keeping us from playing.

ILoveMoto wrote:

I'm against financing toys. 

Financed 2 Kawsakis at 2.9%. Paid $850ish in interest over 3 years. 

Not complaining. Laughing

2
TeamGreen
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6/21/2024 12:17pm Edited Date/Time 6/21/2024 12:18pm

Japan and Austria both have extensive worker protections and welfare systems. And Italy (TM/Beta/Fantic) and France (Sherco) are vastly more regulated and socialized than the U.S.

Dave v3.0 wrote:
And the Austrian's are now utilizing production facilities in India and China to lower costs. The Japanese have also off-shored production. Everyone in developed countries are...

And the Austrian's are now utilizing production facilities in India and China to lower costs.

The Japanese have also off-shored production.

Everyone in developed countries are stuck trying to compete with the 3rd world countries that can (and WILL) do it for less.

soyMotero wrote:
Yes, the Japanese, Austrian, British and Italian manufacturers have production facilities in Asia, you know what they build over there? Cheap 125s, scooters and small bore...

Yes, the Japanese, Austrian, British and Italian manufacturers have production facilities in Asia, you know what they build over there? Cheap 125s, scooters and small bore road or trail motorcycles, those that I've mentioned are the most sold motorcycles in the World, their high end Products (600/1000cc sports and Naked bikes, Big bore Trail bikes and more importantly their Motocross and Enduro bikes) are made on their homeland, the average Motocross riders wants quality, no matter the price, KTM or Honda will be damn sure that the bike that Chase or Jett rides has been built under extreme quality control, because the Motocross customer will buy New bikes no matter the price, as long as they have quality.

As other have mentioned, the countries that build high end motocross bikes (Japan, Austria, UK, Italy and Spain with the Stark Varg) have far more taxes and regulations that the US will ever have, that is not the excuse, the US Industry (Harley, Indian or Can-Am) doesn't care about dirt bikes at all, they make much more money selling choppers or Side by Side UTV. Alta was the only motocross brand that the US had and the biggest american Motorcycle manufacturer, Harley Davidson, decided to kill Alta.

Recently…

The Austrian folks have been setting up shop at a very serious level…in China…and have leaned on their vendors to do the same. 

3
soggy
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6/21/2024 12:31pm
Dave v3.0 wrote:
And the Austrian's are now utilizing production facilities in India and China to lower costs. The Japanese have also off-shored production. Everyone in developed countries are...

And the Austrian's are now utilizing production facilities in India and China to lower costs.

The Japanese have also off-shored production.

Everyone in developed countries are stuck trying to compete with the 3rd world countries that can (and WILL) do it for less.

soyMotero wrote:
Yes, the Japanese, Austrian, British and Italian manufacturers have production facilities in Asia, you know what they build over there? Cheap 125s, scooters and small bore...

Yes, the Japanese, Austrian, British and Italian manufacturers have production facilities in Asia, you know what they build over there? Cheap 125s, scooters and small bore road or trail motorcycles, those that I've mentioned are the most sold motorcycles in the World, their high end Products (600/1000cc sports and Naked bikes, Big bore Trail bikes and more importantly their Motocross and Enduro bikes) are made on their homeland, the average Motocross riders wants quality, no matter the price, KTM or Honda will be damn sure that the bike that Chase or Jett rides has been built under extreme quality control, because the Motocross customer will buy New bikes no matter the price, as long as they have quality.

As other have mentioned, the countries that build high end motocross bikes (Japan, Austria, UK, Italy and Spain with the Stark Varg) have far more taxes and regulations that the US will ever have, that is not the excuse, the US Industry (Harley, Indian or Can-Am) doesn't care about dirt bikes at all, they make much more money selling choppers or Side by Side UTV. Alta was the only motocross brand that the US had and the biggest american Motorcycle manufacturer, Harley Davidson, decided to kill Alta.

TeamGreen wrote:

Recently…

The Austrian folks have been setting up shop at a very serious level…in China…and have leaned on their vendors to do the same. 

primarily for their small bikes and some DS models I thought?

1
ILoveMoto
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6/21/2024 12:32pm

So then it isn't just labor, regulatory, or market conditions keeping us from playing.

ILoveMoto wrote:

I'm against financing toys. 

TeamGreen wrote:
Financed 2 Kawsakis at 2.9%. Paid $850ish in interest over 3 years.  Not complaining. 

Financed 2 Kawsakis at 2.9%. Paid $850ish in interest over 3 years. 

Not complaining. Laughing

It's just goes against my principles. Sure you can get a low-rate and keep your money invested in something (CD, gold, stocks) I just prefer not owing anybody anything. I'd also like to die with my boots on. 🙂

3
4
6/21/2024 12:33pm
Dave v3.0 wrote:
You will NEVER be able to lower the cost of living in the US enough to be competitive with countries that have no OHSA, no EPA...

You will NEVER be able to lower the cost of living in the US enough to be competitive with countries that have no OHSA, no EPA, no welfare system, and no minimum wage.  We are now destined to be a service and consumption economy...by design.  Our politicians delight in squashing small businesses with regulations and taxes. 

Austria and Italy have all those things , and make dirt bikes 

3
6/21/2024 12:38pm
kawasa84 wrote:

Kawasaki Motors has been assembling ATV's in Maryville, Missouri, (about 1 1/2 hours north of Kansas City) for around 40 years. 

Also in Lincoln Nebraska , 

3
ando
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6/21/2024 12:39pm

You guys have a very large scale car manufacturing industry; no reason someone couldn’t be manufacturing motorcycles as well.  

2
Village Idiot
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6/21/2024 12:43pm

I thought Gary was having those made in Mexico? Wasn't that the joint venture, hence the AmMex name?

I always thought of it as a multinational undertaking rather than a domestic one since they weren't being manufactured in the States. A type of Hodaka, if you will.

6/21/2024 12:44pm Edited Date/Time 6/21/2024 12:56pm
kawasa84 wrote:

Kawasaki Motors has been assembling ATV's in Maryville, Missouri, (about 1 1/2 hours north of Kansas City) for around 40 years. 

scott_nz wrote:

Also in Lincoln Nebraska , 

- And -

Yamaha in Newnan, Georgia

Honda in Timmonsville, SC

Suzuki in Rome, Georgia

4
NSP139
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6/21/2024 12:46pm
ando wrote:

You guys have a very large scale car manufacturing industry; no reason someone couldn’t be manufacturing motorcycles as well.  

LOL our American cars are made in Mexico or Canada🤷‍♂️ we don't make s*** anymore!

2
1
ando
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6/21/2024 12:46pm
Dave v3.0 wrote:
Rokon, Cannondale, Cobra, Alta, Harley (designed in US, manufactured in Italy) all had American bikes.  Probably some others I have forgotten.  And I didn't list the...

Rokon, Cannondale, Cobra, Alta, Harley (designed in US, manufactured in Italy) all had American bikes.  Probably some others I have forgotten.  And I didn't list the dozens of minis that were produced here in the 70's.

Labor, raw material costs, and the EPA have pretty much sealed the fate of American manufacturing for the foreseeable future. 

Let’s be clear that the reason “labor” costs are higher in the US is because the cost of living is higher than those nations that have...

Let’s be clear that the reason “labor” costs are higher in the US is because the cost of living is higher than those nations that have lower pay for workers. There are plenty of right to work states where a US manufacturer could hire non-union workers to build their bikes, but good luck getting skilled people to work for starvation wages. If we could figure out how to significantly lower the cost of living, the US could compete effectively.

High cost of living is the outcome of the demand for a high standard of living.  Infrastructure, health care, education, reliable agriculture, quality housing, modern transport etc are not cheap.  You can’t lower the cost of living without impacting those.

2
ando
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6/21/2024 12:48pm
ando wrote:

You guys have a very large scale car manufacturing industry; no reason someone couldn’t be manufacturing motorcycles as well.  

NSP139 wrote:

LOL our American cars are made in Mexico or Canada🤷‍♂️ we don't make s*** anymore!

Not all of your vehicles are made across the border, and in any case that’s no different to the other countries that manufacture motorcycles - they all offshore some portion of the production.

onefiveight
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6/21/2024 12:50pm
bayodome wrote:
Dust Moto will be going into production next year. 4/5 scale bikes with 21/18 wheels. They're electric, so haters get your tired rants out of the...

Dust Moto will be going into production next year. 4/5 scale bikes with 21/18 wheels. They're electric, so haters get your tired rants out of the way.

Great looking machines. Perfect for backyard ripping. Hopefully one day they go full size as well.

That thing looks like a lot of fun.

1
NSP139
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6/21/2024 12:59pm
ando wrote:

You guys have a very large scale car manufacturing industry; no reason someone couldn’t be manufacturing motorcycles as well.  

NSP139 wrote:

LOL our American cars are made in Mexico or Canada🤷‍♂️ we don't make s*** anymore!

ando wrote:
Not all of your vehicles are made across the border, and in any case that’s no different to the other countries that manufacture motorcycles - they...

Not all of your vehicles are made across the border, and in any case that’s no different to the other countries that manufacture motorcycles - they all offshore some portion of the production.

Only GM makes more Vehicles here in America than Toyota that says a lot and it's pretty sad

6/21/2024 1:01pm Edited Date/Time 6/21/2024 1:43pm
Dave v3.0 wrote:
And the Austrian's are now utilizing production facilities in India and China to lower costs. The Japanese have also off-shored production. Everyone in developed countries are...

And the Austrian's are now utilizing production facilities in India and China to lower costs.

The Japanese have also off-shored production.

Everyone in developed countries are stuck trying to compete with the 3rd world countries that can (and WILL) do it for less.

soyMotero wrote:
Yes, the Japanese, Austrian, British and Italian manufacturers have production facilities in Asia, you know what they build over there? Cheap 125s, scooters and small bore...

Yes, the Japanese, Austrian, British and Italian manufacturers have production facilities in Asia, you know what they build over there? Cheap 125s, scooters and small bore road or trail motorcycles, those that I've mentioned are the most sold motorcycles in the World, their high end Products (600/1000cc sports and Naked bikes, Big bore Trail bikes and more importantly their Motocross and Enduro bikes) are made on their homeland, the average Motocross riders wants quality, no matter the price, KTM or Honda will be damn sure that the bike that Chase or Jett rides has been built under extreme quality control, because the Motocross customer will buy New bikes no matter the price, as long as they have quality.

As other have mentioned, the countries that build high end motocross bikes (Japan, Austria, UK, Italy and Spain with the Stark Varg) have far more taxes and regulations that the US will ever have, that is not the excuse, the US Industry (Harley, Indian or Can-Am) doesn't care about dirt bikes at all, they make much more money selling choppers or Side by Side UTV. Alta was the only motocross brand that the US had and the biggest american Motorcycle manufacturer, Harley Davidson, decided to kill Alta.

TeamGreen wrote:

Recently…

The Austrian folks have been setting up shop at a very serious level…in China…and have leaned on their vendors to do the same. 

Of course they have. It is the world's largest motorcycle market and a major manufacturing hub. Any global company would be stupid not to set up shop at a very serious level in China.

But all the manufacturers are still building many, many bikes outside of Asia, including basically all of the competition models we consider here at Vital. It stands to reason USA could too if we cared.

2
zehn
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6/21/2024 1:07pm Edited Date/Time 6/21/2024 1:08pm
Dave v3.0 wrote:
Rokon, Cannondale, Cobra, Alta, Harley (designed in US, manufactured in Italy) all had American bikes.  Probably some others I have forgotten.  And I didn't list the...

Rokon, Cannondale, Cobra, Alta, Harley (designed in US, manufactured in Italy) all had American bikes.  Probably some others I have forgotten.  And I didn't list the dozens of minis that were produced here in the 70's.

Labor, raw material costs, and the EPA have pretty much sealed the fate of American manufacturing for the foreseeable future. 

Let’s be clear that the reason “labor” costs are higher in the US is because the cost of living is higher than those nations that have...

Let’s be clear that the reason “labor” costs are higher in the US is because the cost of living is higher than those nations that have lower pay for workers. There are plenty of right to work states where a US manufacturer could hire non-union workers to build their bikes, but good luck getting skilled people to work for starvation wages. If we could figure out how to significantly lower the cost of living, the US could compete effectively.

ando wrote:
High cost of living is the outcome of the demand for a high standard of living.  Infrastructure, health care, education, reliable agriculture, quality housing, modern transport...

High cost of living is the outcome of the demand for a high standard of living.  Infrastructure, health care, education, reliable agriculture, quality housing, modern transport etc are not cheap.  You can’t lower the cost of living without impacting those.

Exactly, there is basically no one in the US that would be willing to sacrifice a significant quality of life if it meant we could manufacture things like dirt bikes in the US

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