Will there ever be a dirt bike Made in USA?

To this day, I'm surprised there isn't 1 U.S. motorcycle manufacturer making dirt bikes in the USA. Will that every change?

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Speak917
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6/21/2024 7:32am

What about ATK?   
 

 

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bayodome
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6/21/2024 7:38am

Dust Moto will be going into production next year. 4/5 scale bikes with 21/18 wheels. They're electric, so haters get your tired rants out of the way.

Great looking machines. Perfect for backyard ripping. Hopefully one day they go full size as well.

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Village Idiot
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6/21/2024 7:40am

Cannondale says "hi".

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The Shop

zippytech
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6/21/2024 7:48am

Has the US ever made any good bikes at all?

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3
6/21/2024 7:48am

There is going to be a renaissance in American manufacturing in the coming decades out of necessity.  I do hope that means we will see an American made ICE dirt bike that is as good as what we have today.  It may be that one of the manufacturers in today's market moves dirt bike production here.  Honda and Yamaha already build other products here, so why not dirt bikes.

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randbagger
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6/21/2024 7:50am

All costs higher than other countries. 

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Dave v3.0
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6/21/2024 7:59am

Rokon, Cannondale, Cobra, Alta, Harley (designed in US, manufactured in Italy) all had American bikes.  Probably some others I have forgotten.  And I didn't list the dozens of minis that were produced here in the 70's.

Labor, raw material costs, and the EPA have pretty much sealed the fate of American manufacturing for the foreseeable future. 

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Not hillbilly
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6/21/2024 8:12am
Dave v3.0 wrote:
Rokon, Cannondale, Cobra, Alta, Harley (designed in US, manufactured in Italy) all had American bikes.  Probably some others I have forgotten.  And I didn't list the...

Rokon, Cannondale, Cobra, Alta, Harley (designed in US, manufactured in Italy) all had American bikes.  Probably some others I have forgotten.  And I didn't list the dozens of minis that were produced here in the 70's.

Labor, raw material costs, and the EPA have pretty much sealed the fate of American manufacturing for the foreseeable future. 

Let’s be clear that the reason “labor” costs are higher in the US is because the cost of living is higher than those nations that have lower pay for workers. There are plenty of right to work states where a US manufacturer could hire non-union workers to build their bikes, but good luck getting skilled people to work for starvation wages. If we could figure out how to significantly lower the cost of living, the US could compete effectively.

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3strokemx
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6/21/2024 8:14am

image-20240621110430-1

People have tried it!

It's a niche market and would take a big investment. It's pretty wild to have manufacturers (from any nation) stepping into the motocross market. Ducati, Triumph.....and Beta (all existing brands but a renewed moto focus). 

Before this year there's only been 1 new manufacturer in the main event of a supercross in the past 40 years?


off hand here's a list of failed new dirtbike ventures I can think of from recent history:
Cannondale
BMW
ATK
Vor
Husaberg
Highland Motors
Suzuki  (*just kidding)
Alta (Bought by Harley Davidson)
 

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Dave v3.0
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6/21/2024 8:24am
Dave v3.0 wrote:
Rokon, Cannondale, Cobra, Alta, Harley (designed in US, manufactured in Italy) all had American bikes.  Probably some others I have forgotten.  And I didn't list the...

Rokon, Cannondale, Cobra, Alta, Harley (designed in US, manufactured in Italy) all had American bikes.  Probably some others I have forgotten.  And I didn't list the dozens of minis that were produced here in the 70's.

Labor, raw material costs, and the EPA have pretty much sealed the fate of American manufacturing for the foreseeable future. 

Let’s be clear that the reason “labor” costs are higher in the US is because the cost of living is higher than those nations that have...

Let’s be clear that the reason “labor” costs are higher in the US is because the cost of living is higher than those nations that have lower pay for workers. There are plenty of right to work states where a US manufacturer could hire non-union workers to build their bikes, but good luck getting skilled people to work for starvation wages. If we could figure out how to significantly lower the cost of living, the US could compete effectively.

You will NEVER be able to lower the cost of living in the US enough to be competitive with countries that have no OHSA, no EPA, no welfare system, and no minimum wage.  We are now destined to be a service and consumption economy...by design.  Our politicians delight in squashing small businesses with regulations and taxes. 

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5
6/21/2024 8:34am
Speak917 wrote:

What about ATK?   
 

 

Fuckers were absolutely legendary marketing wise. 

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Not hillbilly
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6/21/2024 8:37am
Dave v3.0 wrote:
You will NEVER be able to lower the cost of living in the US enough to be competitive with countries that have no OHSA, no EPA...

You will NEVER be able to lower the cost of living in the US enough to be competitive with countries that have no OHSA, no EPA, no welfare system, and no minimum wage.  We are now destined to be a service and consumption economy...by design.  Our politicians delight in squashing small businesses with regulations and taxes. 

I think I understand where you’re coming from, but I think it’s possible to have safety regulations and social safety nets without completely squashing businesses. But you’re right, countries that don’t police their businesses in the same way, and don’t provide for their citizens like we do, have an advantage… of sorts.

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Soul Indigo
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6/21/2024 8:41am
Speak917 wrote:

What about ATK?   
 

 

Rickyisms wrote:
Fuckers were absolutely legendary marketing wise. 

Fuckers were absolutely legendary marketing wise. 

Anti Chain Torque Eliminator. 
 

Double negative? Ya, no, fer sure.

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FWYT
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6/21/2024 8:59am

7
6/21/2024 9:12am Edited Date/Time 6/21/2024 9:39am
Dave v3.0 wrote:
Rokon, Cannondale, Cobra, Alta, Harley (designed in US, manufactured in Italy) all had American bikes.  Probably some others I have forgotten.  And I didn't list the...

Rokon, Cannondale, Cobra, Alta, Harley (designed in US, manufactured in Italy) all had American bikes.  Probably some others I have forgotten.  And I didn't list the dozens of minis that were produced here in the 70's.

Labor, raw material costs, and the EPA have pretty much sealed the fate of American manufacturing for the foreseeable future. 

Let’s be clear that the reason “labor” costs are higher in the US is because the cost of living is higher than those nations that have...

Let’s be clear that the reason “labor” costs are higher in the US is because the cost of living is higher than those nations that have lower pay for workers. There are plenty of right to work states where a US manufacturer could hire non-union workers to build their bikes, but good luck getting skilled people to work for starvation wages. If we could figure out how to significantly lower the cost of living, the US could compete effectively.

Dave v3.0 wrote:
You will NEVER be able to lower the cost of living in the US enough to be competitive with countries that have no OHSA, no EPA...

You will NEVER be able to lower the cost of living in the US enough to be competitive with countries that have no OHSA, no EPA, no welfare system, and no minimum wage.  We are now destined to be a service and consumption economy...by design.  Our politicians delight in squashing small businesses with regulations and taxes. 

Japan and Austria both have extensive worker protections and welfare systems. And Italy (TM/Beta/Fantic) and France (Sherco) are vastly more regulated and socialized than the U.S.

15
Dave v3.0
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6/21/2024 9:21am
Let’s be clear that the reason “labor” costs are higher in the US is because the cost of living is higher than those nations that have...

Let’s be clear that the reason “labor” costs are higher in the US is because the cost of living is higher than those nations that have lower pay for workers. There are plenty of right to work states where a US manufacturer could hire non-union workers to build their bikes, but good luck getting skilled people to work for starvation wages. If we could figure out how to significantly lower the cost of living, the US could compete effectively.

Dave v3.0 wrote:
You will NEVER be able to lower the cost of living in the US enough to be competitive with countries that have no OHSA, no EPA...

You will NEVER be able to lower the cost of living in the US enough to be competitive with countries that have no OHSA, no EPA, no welfare system, and no minimum wage.  We are now destined to be a service and consumption economy...by design.  Our politicians delight in squashing small businesses with regulations and taxes. 

Japan and Austria both have extensive worker protections and welfare systems. And Italy (TM/Beta/Fantic) and France (Sherco) are vastly more regulated and socialized than the U.S.

And the Austrian's are now utilizing production facilities in India and China to lower costs.

The Japanese have also off-shored production.

Everyone in developed countries are stuck trying to compete with the 3rd world countries that can (and WILL) do it for less.

5
SonofThor32
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6/21/2024 9:21am Edited Date/Time 6/21/2024 7:01pm
Dave v3.0 wrote:
Rokon, Cannondale, Cobra, Alta, Harley (designed in US, manufactured in Italy) all had American bikes.  Probably some others I have forgotten.  And I didn't list the...

Rokon, Cannondale, Cobra, Alta, Harley (designed in US, manufactured in Italy) all had American bikes.  Probably some others I have forgotten.  And I didn't list the dozens of minis that were produced here in the 70's.

Labor, raw material costs, and the EPA have pretty much sealed the fate of American manufacturing for the foreseeable future. 

Let’s be clear that the reason “labor” costs are higher in the US is because the cost of living is higher than those nations that have...

Let’s be clear that the reason “labor” costs are higher in the US is because the cost of living is higher than those nations that have lower pay for workers. There are plenty of right to work states where a US manufacturer could hire non-union workers to build their bikes, but good luck getting skilled people to work for starvation wages. If we could figure out how to significantly lower the cost of living, the US could compete effectively.

Dave v3.0 wrote:
You will NEVER be able to lower the cost of living in the US enough to be competitive with countries that have no OHSA, no EPA...

You will NEVER be able to lower the cost of living in the US enough to be competitive with countries that have no OHSA, no EPA, no welfare system, and no minimum wage.  We are now destined to be a service and consumption economy...by design.  Our politicians delight in squashing small businesses with regulations and taxes. 

Let's not forget, other countries also will not have 'leadership' declaring to the world that every working citizen needs to make a living wage, which has absolutely decimated what historically was "entry level".  In ripe timing I might add, while the country was already economically crippled by the pandemic - the timing of that stupid power grab could not have been worse.  Entry level jobs, and entry level wages were always meant to be for unskilled (young) workers without a resume, get their feet wet, and begin a resume, at a low wage which was always expected, and grow from there.  It seems leadership assumed that the only entry level jobs in the world are in the fast food industry, and look at us 4 years later, idiots.  But hey, they are growing their voter base, at the price of the US economy, and small businesses being crippled.

So to your point, you are 100% correct, we are doing everything thing we can to ensure we destroy American manufacturing - go team!

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7
6/21/2024 9:22am
Dave v3.0 wrote:
You will NEVER be able to lower the cost of living in the US enough to be competitive with countries that have no OHSA, no EPA...

You will NEVER be able to lower the cost of living in the US enough to be competitive with countries that have no OHSA, no EPA, no welfare system, and no minimum wage.  We are now destined to be a service and consumption economy...by design.  Our politicians delight in squashing small businesses with regulations and taxes. 

Japan and Austria both have extensive worker protections and welfare systems. And Italy (TM/Beta/Fantic) and France (Sherco) are vastly more regulated and socialized than the U.S.

Dave v3.0 wrote:
And the Austrian's are now utilizing production facilities in India and China to lower costs. The Japanese have also off-shored production. Everyone in developed countries are...

And the Austrian's are now utilizing production facilities in India and China to lower costs.

The Japanese have also off-shored production.

Everyone in developed countries are stuck trying to compete with the 3rd world countries that can (and WILL) do it for less.

But all those countries are building dirt bikes, and the U.S. is not, for the most part.

6/21/2024 9:25am Edited Date/Time 6/21/2024 9:35am
Let’s be clear that the reason “labor” costs are higher in the US is because the cost of living is higher than those nations that have...

Let’s be clear that the reason “labor” costs are higher in the US is because the cost of living is higher than those nations that have lower pay for workers. There are plenty of right to work states where a US manufacturer could hire non-union workers to build their bikes, but good luck getting skilled people to work for starvation wages. If we could figure out how to significantly lower the cost of living, the US could compete effectively.

Dave v3.0 wrote:
You will NEVER be able to lower the cost of living in the US enough to be competitive with countries that have no OHSA, no EPA...

You will NEVER be able to lower the cost of living in the US enough to be competitive with countries that have no OHSA, no EPA, no welfare system, and no minimum wage.  We are now destined to be a service and consumption economy...by design.  Our politicians delight in squashing small businesses with regulations and taxes. 

Let's not forget, other countries also will not have 'leadership' declaring to the world that every working citizen needs to make a living wage, which has...

Let's not forget, other countries also will not have 'leadership' declaring to the world that every working citizen needs to make a living wage, which has absolutely decimated what historically was "entry level".  In ripe timing I might add, while the country was already economically crippled by the pandemic - the timing of that stupid power grab could not have been worse.  Entry level jobs, and entry level wages were always meant to be for unskilled (young) workers without a resume, get their feet wet, and begin a resume, at a low wage which was always expected, and grow from there.  It seems leadership assumed that the only entry level jobs in the world are in the fast food industry, and look at us 4 years later, idiots.  But hey, they are growing their voter base, at the price of the US economy, and small businesses being crippled.

So to your point, you are 100% correct, we are doing everything thing we can to ensure we destroy American manufacturing - go team!

In Italy, every worker not only gets a "living wage", but a full month of annual paid leave, and mandatory severance arbitration/pay. They are building TMs, Fantics, Betas, and soon Ducatis.

Surely, we in the U.S. are capable of building something without all the excuses.

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ILoveMoto
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6/21/2024 9:34am
Dave v3.0 wrote:
You will NEVER be able to lower the cost of living in the US enough to be competitive with countries that have no OHSA, no EPA...

You will NEVER be able to lower the cost of living in the US enough to be competitive with countries that have no OHSA, no EPA, no welfare system, and no minimum wage.  We are now destined to be a service and consumption economy...by design.  Our politicians delight in squashing small businesses with regulations and taxes. 

Japan and Austria both have extensive worker protections and welfare systems. And Italy (TM/Beta/Fantic) and France (Sherco) are vastly more regulated and socialized than the U.S.

Dave v3.0 wrote:
And the Austrian's are now utilizing production facilities in India and China to lower costs. The Japanese have also off-shored production. Everyone in developed countries are...

And the Austrian's are now utilizing production facilities in India and China to lower costs.

The Japanese have also off-shored production.

Everyone in developed countries are stuck trying to compete with the 3rd world countries that can (and WILL) do it for less.

But will they do it better 🥴

6
Dave v3.0
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6/21/2024 9:34am Edited Date/Time 6/21/2024 9:37am
Dave v3.0 wrote:
You will NEVER be able to lower the cost of living in the US enough to be competitive with countries that have no OHSA, no EPA...

You will NEVER be able to lower the cost of living in the US enough to be competitive with countries that have no OHSA, no EPA, no welfare system, and no minimum wage.  We are now destined to be a service and consumption economy...by design.  Our politicians delight in squashing small businesses with regulations and taxes. 

Let's not forget, other countries also will not have 'leadership' declaring to the world that every working citizen needs to make a living wage, which has...

Let's not forget, other countries also will not have 'leadership' declaring to the world that every working citizen needs to make a living wage, which has absolutely decimated what historically was "entry level".  In ripe timing I might add, while the country was already economically crippled by the pandemic - the timing of that stupid power grab could not have been worse.  Entry level jobs, and entry level wages were always meant to be for unskilled (young) workers without a resume, get their feet wet, and begin a resume, at a low wage which was always expected, and grow from there.  It seems leadership assumed that the only entry level jobs in the world are in the fast food industry, and look at us 4 years later, idiots.  But hey, they are growing their voter base, at the price of the US economy, and small businesses being crippled.

So to your point, you are 100% correct, we are doing everything thing we can to ensure we destroy American manufacturing - go team!

In Italy, every worker not only gets a "living wage", but a full month of annual paid leave, and mandatory severance arbitration/pay. They are building TMs...

In Italy, every worker not only gets a "living wage", but a full month of annual paid leave, and mandatory severance arbitration/pay. They are building TMs, Fantics, Betas, and soon Ducatis.

Surely, we in the U.S. are capable of building something without all the excuses.

Not at the expense of destroying "share holder value".Whistling 

I think you might also be surprised to find that the line labor workers in those plants may not all be local Italians or French

These aren't excuses, they are economic realities of the current American economy.  Manufacturing has been steadily destroyed in the U.S. since the 1960's.

5
6/21/2024 9:35am
Dave v3.0 wrote:
Rokon, Cannondale, Cobra, Alta, Harley (designed in US, manufactured in Italy) all had American bikes.  Probably some others I have forgotten.  And I didn't list the...

Rokon, Cannondale, Cobra, Alta, Harley (designed in US, manufactured in Italy) all had American bikes.  Probably some others I have forgotten.  And I didn't list the dozens of minis that were produced here in the 70's.

Labor, raw material costs, and the EPA have pretty much sealed the fate of American manufacturing for the foreseeable future. 

Let’s be clear that the reason “labor” costs are higher in the US is because the cost of living is higher than those nations that have...

Let’s be clear that the reason “labor” costs are higher in the US is because the cost of living is higher than those nations that have lower pay for workers. There are plenty of right to work states where a US manufacturer could hire non-union workers to build their bikes, but good luck getting skilled people to work for starvation wages. If we could figure out how to significantly lower the cost of living, the US could compete effectively.

China's dollar being worth less US dollars also helps them.   When the Euro was really strong around 2007, I was selling and shipping a lot of graphics over to England and Ireland. I met some people through the 07 MXON and they loved that they effectively got stuff for half price because of the exchange rates. At the time  prices were similar in euros to the price in dollars. So a set of $200 graphics became 100 euros.   

At the moment I am writing this 1 us dollar converts to 7.26 Chinese yuan . 

My quick research shows that the average cost of living in China is roughly half that of the US when converted to  the same currency.

Their currency being weaker helps them  be able to sell something  much cheaper.    It is  a big advantage for China that helped it become  the worlds factory. But a US dollar just goes so much farther along with stuff being cheaper to begin with , the exchange rates are the biggest help. 

 

When the shipping costs spiked , it helped level out the prices of making stuff in the US.  I don't know how China is as far as socially or schooling as far as the mindset of factory workers or construction workers goes. But the US has been working against itself for years by teaching kids that jobs in the trades or manufacturing are looked down on and You don't want to end up doing that.  For years many people think they need a degree in something , and that degree will be the key to making good money.  Finding people to work at factories is difficult in the US. 

And then after a company goes through all of the trouble to setup in the US. the same people wanting a US made item go buy the cheaper item to save money. If there was a bigger actual demand for US made stuff , it would be made. There may be people that are vocally  saying they want US products. But Sales numbers must show that is not the case when it comes to real world spending in the segments that an American made item is not available.

 

3
6/21/2024 9:36am Edited Date/Time 6/21/2024 9:37am
Let's not forget, other countries also will not have 'leadership' declaring to the world that every working citizen needs to make a living wage, which has...

Let's not forget, other countries also will not have 'leadership' declaring to the world that every working citizen needs to make a living wage, which has absolutely decimated what historically was "entry level".  In ripe timing I might add, while the country was already economically crippled by the pandemic - the timing of that stupid power grab could not have been worse.  Entry level jobs, and entry level wages were always meant to be for unskilled (young) workers without a resume, get their feet wet, and begin a resume, at a low wage which was always expected, and grow from there.  It seems leadership assumed that the only entry level jobs in the world are in the fast food industry, and look at us 4 years later, idiots.  But hey, they are growing their voter base, at the price of the US economy, and small businesses being crippled.

So to your point, you are 100% correct, we are doing everything thing we can to ensure we destroy American manufacturing - go team!

In Italy, every worker not only gets a "living wage", but a full month of annual paid leave, and mandatory severance arbitration/pay. They are building TMs...

In Italy, every worker not only gets a "living wage", but a full month of annual paid leave, and mandatory severance arbitration/pay. They are building TMs, Fantics, Betas, and soon Ducatis.

Surely, we in the U.S. are capable of building something without all the excuses.

Dave v3.0 wrote:
Not at the expense of destroying "share holder value".  I think you might also be surprised to find that the line labor workers in those plants...

Not at the expense of destroying "share holder value".Whistling 

I think you might also be surprised to find that the line labor workers in those plants may not all be local Italians or French

These aren't excuses, they are economic realities of the current American economy.  Manufacturing has been steadily destroyed in the U.S. since the 1960's.

Doesn't matter.

Not all our line workers are ever going to be local either (and never were). But they are building (good) dirt bikes, and we are not.

1
6/21/2024 9:39am

I know they've "tried" before. But nothing in recent years as other motorcycle manufacturers bring in new dirt bikes to the market. It just seems like a very good time to come out with one.

2
ILoveMoto
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6/21/2024 9:40am

95% of the items sold in Home Depot and Lowes are imported. People want $35 ceiling fans! 🤓 

3
5
Mossy940
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La Quinta, CA, USA
6/21/2024 9:45am

Highland MX -

This is a story I feel got lost in time and there is hardly ever any discussion of USHighland’s endeavor.

If memory serves the bike only made it to a single sanctioned professional(ish) race.

https://www.motorcycle.com/news/us-highland-to-compete-at-xgames-16-898…
 

At the end of the article it gives a synopsis of the 3 executives of the company being killed in a plane crash and ultimately ending the pursuit of building an American made dirtbike….

https://www.motorcycle.com/news/us-highland-executives-die-in-plane-cra…

 

11
6/21/2024 9:56am

You guys are assuming that people will be building the bikes... In the not to distant future, bikes (and everything else) will be manufactured using robots, automation, and designed with AI.  Labor costs and location costs will be less of a factor, and with America being the #1 market for large motorcycles it would make sense to have the factories here to cut down on logistic costs of bringing them in from over seas.  So, I do think you will see more production in the USA. 

1
6/21/2024 9:57am
ILoveMoto wrote:

95% of the items sold in Home Depot and Lowes are imported. People want $35 ceiling fans! 🤓 

Dudes are lining up to pop $30k+ on American built side-by-sides.

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