Is a full spring conversion worth it over a single side spring setup for a vet C level rider ('22 MC350F)? I am having a difficult time justifying the expense of the dual spring conversion, like a 6500 drop-in or KYB conversion. I have read some people say that the weight of the single sided spring can make the bike feel unbalanced in turns. For a vet c class rider I am likely to even feel this? However, going with a single side conversion with valving puts me half-way to the cost of a full setup. Is there going to be any better hold-up and more importantly, plushness with a 6500 conversion vs. single side setup?
Revalving the Xact's has been a consideration as well, but I am not sure it is so much less expensive to justify the inconvenience of keeping up with the changing air pressures.
Just not sure if I would be regretting the single side setup instead of just biting the bullet and paying for the dual spring conversion. And likewise on revalving the current air forks. I suspect I would be annoyed with myself for not doing away with the air chamber altogether.
Looking for some opinions and feedback from older slower vet guys on their experiences. I know that my experience is not going to be the same as a B/A/Pro level rider/racer.
Most important for me is plushness and holdup for my 230-240lbs when geared up to ride. Ride mainly track. And yes, I will be addressing the shock as well.
Thanks guys.
I would suggest staying with stock forks. Trying different pressures and clicker settings.
I ride a 22 FC 350, and would also call myself a true C class rider. IMO the forks on your bike will work well for your skill level without spending big bucks. Like the poster above said adjust air pressures, and try different clicker settings. These forks have a lot of variety in the clickers and I'm sure you will find a setup you like. It took me a little while to find a setting that worked for me but there are a lot of options. I just don't think a C level rider can push the forks to a point where we need the subtlety of the top suspensions. I am sure they are better, but stock forks today are pretty darned good.
I would love to hear the imbalance talk...think those guys should be test riders. If you are a true C rider, then stock is just fine, lots of adjustment. You wouldn't be able to tell much if you are a true C with mega dollars spent versus stock tuning. Use that money for a class/tires/etc
As others have said, unless you are trying to solve a very specific problem, you are likely much better off setting the air spring to the correct pressure, making sure the forks are properly serviced and working on your riding (as opposed to working on the bike). We all are quick to crack open the checkbook when really its seat time we need to be focused on.
This isn't to say the forks can't be improved upon, but as a C (or B...or A) you are unlikely to see much change in lap times no matter how much you spend on your forks.
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First things first, do you have the correct rear spring on the bike? You can not get the forks on these bikes too feel good at all until the shock is properly set up.
For a C rider stock stuff is 1000% good. This is my main gripe with these pro level testers. They make it seem like everyone needs to invest $3000 into WP stuff to make it good. When in reality, $509 into coaching would make for a far better and safer rider than suspension changes.
To me the single biggest problem with the air fork is that it has a spring in one side and a damper in the other. A single side spring conversion does not fix this. Air forks are also known for resisting bottoming more which sounds like something you are concerned with. Make sure the loosen the fork axle lugs and push it through the travel a few times then retorque. This usually freed mine up if it was feeling a little sticky.
Some guys like the feel of having extra weight on the front end. I guess a single side spring conversion would add this.
My air forks seemed more sensitive to if I was ever being lazy and/or stupid and not having the forks/axle aligned properly than a conventional fork, so that is definitely worth keeping on top of.
As for changing air pressures, personally when I found one that was alright I left it alone besides checking it before I went out or if the temps rose a lot from when I checked before leaving the house.
This doesn't answer your question, but just a couple of things to echo what's usually said in these threads.
I have the same bike (2023 model). Also, I sell a drop-in KYB conversion and have a bias in that direction...
For most guys, I believe the air fork is pretty good. The trouble with our GasGas motocross models is that they come stock with the European spec KTM suspension valving. At 165lbs, that was ok on a easy hard-pack vintage style clay track for a break-in ride. As soon as I took the bike to more challenging tracks I was blowing through the stroke and having issues with hold-up at both ends.
If you stick with the air-fork, I don't think you can get a great fork feel with the clickers and air-pressure, given your weight.
When you bump the air pressure and low speed damping on the XACT air fork up, it is far better than the older AER-48 fork, but still gives some extra sting on slapper landings and less comfort at the top of the stroke. I've ridden some revalved air forks that had more comfort than stock while offering some extra hold-up. They don't have the same level of comfort I feel in a spring fork, especially in the upper part of the stroke, but they do excel when compared to a stock XACT-48 air fork. Maybe that's enough?
At your weight, getting at least a re-valve is very important. That bike can be so much better with a few shims and some oil.
That GasGas shock is hopelessly soft too. I had the compression clickers buried and I was burning a hole through the rear fender, even with a stiffer spring at my weight. A good tuner can make that shock hold-up, resist bottoming and still give you excellent rear wheel traction and comfort. I'm on a 45N/mm spring now with firmer valving and the REP linkage. I love the bike. It's a good shock when tuned and in my opinion it's a good chassis.
Kyb dual spring on my 23 GasGas MC350 since 10 hours. Air forks suck. I'm a true c class vet. I don't jump everything, but will jump big jumps if they are setup safe and easy. My biggest problem with air forks is always in the turns because the front wheel never seems planted enough for me. If I get the front wheel good in turns, air forks seem to bottom too hard on the bigger jumps.
At this point I'm not buying another KTMish bike unless they give us spring forks. 3 sets of air forks between Alta and GasGas, and I've officially struck out with those pos forks. My Stark came with kyb setup for my weight for $12k, and it feels pretty good. Why can't the most expensive gas bikes have a suspension option like that instead of shit forks?
1. Because Air Forks are cheaper to produce resulting in higher profits.
2. Because Air Forks are quite a bit lighter than spring forks so they can market that.
3. Because KTM owns WP so everytime someone gets fed up with air forks and buys 6500 kits or Cone Valves they make even more money off of you.
OP....single side conversion will be just fine and is an upgrade from Air Forks for sure. If you can notice the weight being different on side or another of your forks you should reach out to an OEM about doing testing for them. 99% of folks who throw a leg over a dirt bike will never be able to tell.
I have the single sided conversion in AER done by Enzo. I think the magic is in valving more than dual spring or single. I’m very picky about suspension and very impressed. I suggested going coil and go with someone who can give you a great spring/valving setup for your weight and speed.
I don’t know how someone could say it makes the bike unbalanced, considering there’s a muffler on one side of the bike and not the other. But that’s just my 2 cents.
I did the 6500 kit and its a lot more consistent always good,more front tire feel. the air was good but was very inconsistent even with checking pressures, and it developed a lot of Stiction over time.
I guess I'm just one of the freaks that like the AER fork. I've had KYB conversions set up by two different big name tuners, Cone Valves, Coppersmith Hybrid (the best of all) and still liked the stock (22 KTM 350SX) forks better than all except for the hybrid. It could be I'm a bigger guy and it could be the tracks I ride on, but I liked stock and I'm picky about suspension.
I'm a fast Vet C slow B and have gone to single side spring/ valving as well as revalved/sprung rear shock on my 22 gg 450. I don't notice an imbalance of the bike, only on the stand the bars will always drop to the left. It does offer more front end feel/softer than the air fork. Biggest thing I have noticed is initial fork movement seems softer which is what I wanted, but I believe I need mine valved stiffer as now there seems to be too much fork movement. I fought with the same issues as you about money vs. Performance, I honestly think you can't go wrong either way. But if I were to do it on another bike I would probably spend all my available money on thr forks and do the 6500 kit and leave the rear shock alone save for the rear spring as I didn't notice much difference in the rear end.
Thanks to those who replied. I was away for a couple weeks and just getting back to this.
I currently have a RaceTech 5.4kg spring on the bike. I have put on weight since then RaceTech actually recommends a 5.6kg (Novice, prefer soft, 6'3+)
My question is, would the difference in this spring rate be enough to adversely affect the performance of the front forks? I am trying to determine if its worth the cost for the heavier spring. Would I actually see a difference.
Also, as I am losing weight, even though I have the 5.4 available, could the 5.6 still easily work by changing the pre-load? With the difference in spring rate, should I be able to make the 5.4 work?
I really do not want to get into spending money on revalving.
A wrong spring for your weight can be compensated some by clickers but it will affect the performance of the suspensions operation.
Don't compensate for spring rate with preload. Just set your sag to the spec (probably 104mm - 105mm) or as close as you can.
Write down all of your current settings, then...
Use your low speed and high speed compression adjusters to compensate.
If the bike wallows in slow rollers, g-outs or drops deep into the stroke on jump faces you can use some low speed compression.
Don't be afraid to crank the high speed adjuster in 1/6 or 1/4 turn. You'll feel a noticeable change in perceived ride height in the rear end. If it's too much, you can back out half of that change. If 1/6 to 1/4 turn isn't enough, try going in farther.
Typically the HSC adjuster is 1-1/2 to 2 turns (out from closed) but I had to go all the way to 7/8 turn (out from closed) on my stock GasGas shock before I re-valved another shock.
Too much high speed compression can make the bike feel really harsh on square edge bumps and chatter.
Pit Row
Thanks guys
I have the kyb dual spring conversion from cwtoyota on my 21 250sx. Last weekend I rode my 250. Yesterday I rode my 21 150sx that still has air.
I fought the front end all day. harsh feeling on high speed impacts. Harsh on slapper landings. What I disliked the most was the lack of feel feedback going into corners. As soon as I can afford another kyb swap air setup will be gone.
When I did the swap on my 250 I could feel instantly. The better front end feel feedback. It felt like the front end suddenly had better traction. And it was much more plusher.
Never going back to air.
I am a vet A rider (well either a slow vet A rider or a fast vet B rider depending on how you look at it), and I have 7-ish hours on the Race Tech single side spring conversion on my '22 FC 350. My complaint of the stock setup was that if I made the forks soft enough to get rid of slap down harshness and not beat up my hands on little stuff in the hardpack, then they were too mushy on big G outs or under braking. If I added enough air for holdup, they were just too harsh initially (Keefer calls it the "crust" and I think that's a great description).
After two years of always trying to balance this on the fly at different tracks and in different conditions, I decided to look for something that would be consistently good everywhere without tinkering.
Initially I installed just the spring conversion with no revalve and let's just say it didn't work well. Then I upped to the .96 spring rate (which is basically the equivalent of .48 on a dual spring fork) and did the RT gold valves, but the settings provided were way too soft (pro tip from Race Tech, if you are an A or B rider and still doing large jumps, just put standard age instead of the older ages.) I ended up sending the forks to them and they double checked everything and gave me a better setting. RT was great to work with but it was a lot of time chasing it.
In the end, they are okay. They are definitely better on slapdowns,and of course more consistent. But IMO the gain wasn't worth the amount of $ that I ended up sinking into them after buying other springs, shipping the forks, buying gold valves, etc. This isn't a dig on Race Tech at all - I think it goes back to limitations of the single side design. There's no way it can't have some type of binding effect, and it's wild the way the right side fork gets warm. You are also limited in spring rate selection increments. By comparison, I jumped on a bone stock YZ 450 and the forks felt worlds better than my modified setup on the same track..
If I were doing it all over again, if I wanted to spend money I would go with the 6500 kit or cwtoyota's KYB drop in conversion kit and SSS internals, unfortunately I wasn't aware of that when I was doing my conversion. And if I wanted to be cheaper, I'd try a revalve to see if maybe that could get some of the slapdown/crust out of it and then just call it good. But I personally wouldn't do a single side conversion again.
Also, be advised that the bushings wear pretty quick in these and that will add harshness -- if you have over 20 hours and they feel harsh, replace the bushings.
I've actually got a used 56 spring got sale.
On the 2022 and older bikes big tall blokes need a big spring to hold the bike up and make the forks work properly
Also, in my experience the race tech springs on the ktm don't line up as well as the oem WP ones.
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