Did Glen Helen pull a fast one on MX Sports?

docweedon
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3/31/2010 6:09pm
Pops Weedon and I will be at the USGP at Glen Helen this year and are really excited about this opportunity to see the GP riders in action. I do hope a few US riders show up to do battle as well.

I do think it will draw a smaller crowd, as the casual fans don't follow the GP riders at all. Hopefully a lot of motodads bring their children to this and expose them to the other world of Motocross, just like my dad did taking me to the USGP in Carlsbad back in the day.
rileymx
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3/31/2010 6:10pm
if this is really going on i think it is a great move by luongo.......having an go at GH right after they droped the national might just be the way to atract the hard core mx fans from the area, and they are a lot......also for the us mx teams and riders it is a new oportunityu since they are not used to pre-season races like is europe......you saw from jimmy and mike whats the use of those races, its good to see where you are at, whats not working good and most of all pt out all the first rece flyes that most people has........
i still have the april fools thing in mind........but if it does happen then i am sure that even if at first the atendence and hype cold not be a blast, for sre that all the real mx fans that go will enjoy 2 days of hard racing, 6 35+2 motos, lots of unknown riders ridding good and a lot of one of a kind "works" bikes and will have a great mx weekend..........
and with the anouncement in the YS pr that the 2012 mxdn might be there also, i guess that even the most patriotic mx fans that i see here, will like to go to a one off race one a year at glen helen.......
if ther was a way for YS to have an usgp........this is the one for sure

still theres that april fools thing...........that i'm not over it yet......!!!!!!!!!!!!
oldx
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3/31/2010 6:21pm
He studders.
zookrider62!
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3/31/2010 6:25pm
how anyone could possibly think it will have a higher attendance then a regular MX race is beyond me. I doubt many ameriican riders will race, and without them, the fans will not come out.

time will tell I suppose

The Shop

Craze
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3/31/2010 6:27pm
It will be like the USGP's at Carlsbad, only better because it's at Glen Helen!!!
Rupert X
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3/31/2010 6:28pm
jasonv43 wrote:
Personally, I blame the Davalos twins over this whole matter. Before they came along everything was perfect. Now look at what they have done.


Finally, someone with a thorough thought process and the universal intelligence

to gather the data, scramble it up - erase logical conclusions and present

complete nonsense as significant and factual findings to a skeptical public..

Well done .

3/31/2010 6:29pm
GuyB wrote:
The MXoN is something entirely different than the average GP, and it's hard to compare the two. The MXoN spawns a whole lot more national pride...
The MXoN is something entirely different than the average GP, and it's hard to compare the two. The MXoN spawns a whole lot more national pride, which is why it also ends up spawning the BRoN. (Bench Racing of Nations.)
WORCSRacer wrote:
So what you're saying is seeing the best racers from the FIM has to offer against the best racers racing here in the USA will be...
So what you're saying is seeing the best racers from the FIM has to offer against the best racers racing here in the USA will be less exciting than the MXdN?


I think there will be a shitload of flag waving going on and if there is a collective half a brain at YS they will bump the gate to 40 riders instead of the the top 26. It will be bigger than the Nat it is replacing. IMHO of course....
who says the top US riders will ride (they did not in the past USGP's), the bikes will be different, (noise and fuel are different) and Youthstream do not allow open entries or qualifying, i think some riders may do it but i do not think you will have all the top US teams,
3/31/2010 6:31pm
I have no idea who did what to who and at this point I could give a bleep...I'm just happy we have a usgp again and can't wait to see who from the ama shows up.

As far as crowd goes my guess is we'll see between 20-30,000 people there.
Overdrive
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3/31/2010 6:34pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 9:49pm


Yeah its all their fault.
Regis
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Fantasy
3/31/2010 6:55pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 9:49pm
GuyB wrote:
The MXoN is something entirely different than the average GP, and it's hard to compare the two. The MXoN spawns a whole lot more national pride...
The MXoN is something entirely different than the average GP, and it's hard to compare the two. The MXoN spawns a whole lot more national pride, which is why it also ends up spawning the BRoN. (Bench Racing of Nations.)
WORCSRacer wrote:
So what you're saying is seeing the best racers from the FIM has to offer against the best racers racing here in the USA will be...
So what you're saying is seeing the best racers from the FIM has to offer against the best racers racing here in the USA will be less exciting than the MXdN?


I think there will be a shitload of flag waving going on and if there is a collective half a brain at YS they will bump the gate to 40 riders instead of the the top 26. It will be bigger than the Nat it is replacing. IMHO of course....
but you do realize due to contractual agreements our "best" (the majority of them) will not be racing!

More of the AMA regulars will probably race the warm up race the week before Hangtown than the GP with al the sign up rules / regulations etc etc. I bet we can count the US regulars racing the USGP on one hand.
RideMX
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3/31/2010 7:25pm
MX Sports shot itself in the foot.

Glen Helen will have a great GP.
FreshTopEnd
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3/31/2010 7:33pm Edited Date/Time 3/31/2010 7:37pm
GuyB wrote:
The things that I think are interesting look like this: Having a GP in So. Cal. would probably be about the dream scenario for Youthstream. Close...
The things that I think are interesting look like this:

Having a GP in So. Cal. would probably be about the dream scenario for Youthstream. Close to the manufacturers, an established fan base, etc.

YS also has their list of infrastructure requirements (some of the same bike wash, etc. goodies that seemed objectionable to them when dealing with MX Sports). Do they jump when YS says jump?

Who handles the track design, length, etc?

How big a crowd will they draw?

The biggest one, of course, is who from the U.S. series will line up to compete? Teams will have to change their setups for sound, etc. (I'd assume the same standards as the MXoN.) Will it be the usual GP crowd only? Will some of the U.S. teams opt in? That's the big question for me.

Talking with Larry Brooks last weekend, he was really bummed that GH was off the schedule, since it's so close to the San Manuel home turf. They were looking forward to racing there and bring out their sponsors...
I wonder if the most workable deal for both the parties on short notice is to keep it as simple as possible. Something like YS wants to be here and assumes the cost of the event and GH hands them the keys to the track to put it into place. The should have a ready made audience of folks expecting a race that weekend. Some may not even know the difference.

I don't see a lot of top US Nationals teams putting their riders at risk, and having them there would complicate things for the GP regulars. But who knows at this point.

So, it can be a pretty cool event ~ more MX is always better than less ~ but
Ozy
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3/31/2010 7:34pm
GuyB wrote:
The things that I think are interesting look like this: Having a GP in So. Cal. would probably be about the dream scenario for Youthstream. Close...
The things that I think are interesting look like this:

Having a GP in So. Cal. would probably be about the dream scenario for Youthstream. Close to the manufacturers, an established fan base, etc.

YS also has their list of infrastructure requirements (some of the same bike wash, etc. goodies that seemed objectionable to them when dealing with MX Sports). Do they jump when YS says jump?

Who handles the track design, length, etc?

How big a crowd will they draw?

The biggest one, of course, is who from the U.S. series will line up to compete? Teams will have to change their setups for sound, etc. (I'd assume the same standards as the MXoN.) Will it be the usual GP crowd only? Will some of the U.S. teams opt in? That's the big question for me.

Talking with Larry Brooks last weekend, he was really bummed that GH was off the schedule, since it's so close to the San Manuel home turf. They were looking forward to racing there and bring out their sponsors...
Maybe Hosting both a GP and AMA Nat and having a long term contract for each will motivate GH to install a few more upgrades. Still have my fingers crossed MX Sports can work something out wit Glen Helen. I would go to both GP and Nat
jmar
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3/31/2010 7:35pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 9:49pm
scott_nz wrote:
i can not believe that Glen Helen would think Luongo would be easier to deal with than MX Sports, be interesting to see what happens, i...
i can not believe that Glen Helen would think Luongo would be easier to deal with than MX Sports,

be interesting to see what happens, i think a GP would draw a hell of a lot less crowd than a MX Natioanl would, although a MXoN would pull alot more,
scott_nz wrote: i can not believe that Glen Helen would think Luongo would be easier to deal with than MX Sports,


With all due respect, do you really think the operations people at GH are some type of idiots?


You and I have absolutely no idea which one is harder to work with.
FreshTopEnd
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3/31/2010 7:39pm
thiel77 wrote:
I will start with a few things before my point. I am no one biased toward MX Sports, YS, or Glen Helen. Also moving the race...
I will start with a few things before my point. I am no one biased toward MX Sports, YS, or Glen Helen. Also moving the race off of the MX Sports Schedule does not effect me, being from Ohio, so I am looking at this strictly from a fans perspective. Lastly, I am not trying to stir the pot, I am just posing a question.

With the timing and speed of all of this news, I don't even think it's been a full two weeks yet, I am starting to wonder if Glen Helen didn't pull a fast one on MX Sports. Think about all the hostility between MX Sports and YS a year or so ago when they were biding for the rights to the Nationals. I know that it seemed a lot of the Americans wanted to keep the sanctioning body American. We also know that YS has been wanting a piece of the American MX scene for sometime now. So my question, or scenario, is did Glen Helen wait/ "not fulfill their contractual obligations" so that it looks like the two sides couldn't come to an agreement so that the public perceived it as, they tried to make MX Sports happy. All the while, they were doing talks with YS to get a GP here?
Nothing new about that as far as the US goes.
BobbyM
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3/31/2010 7:40pm
I have no idea who did what to who and at this point I could give a bleep...I'm just happy we have a usgp again and...
I have no idea who did what to who and at this point I could give a bleep...I'm just happy we have a usgp again and can't wait to see who from the ama shows up.

As far as crowd goes my guess is we'll see between 20-30,000 people there.
last week you said you understood the issues...wtf dannyboy
WORCSRacer
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3/31/2010 7:43pm
thiel77 wrote:
I will start with a few things before my point. I am no one biased toward MX Sports, YS, or Glen Helen. Also moving the race...
I will start with a few things before my point. I am no one biased toward MX Sports, YS, or Glen Helen. Also moving the race off of the MX Sports Schedule does not effect me, being from Ohio, so I am looking at this strictly from a fans perspective. Lastly, I am not trying to stir the pot, I am just posing a question.

With the timing and speed of all of this news, I don't even think it's been a full two weeks yet, I am starting to wonder if Glen Helen didn't pull a fast one on MX Sports. Think about all the hostility between MX Sports and YS a year or so ago when they were biding for the rights to the Nationals. I know that it seemed a lot of the Americans wanted to keep the sanctioning body American. We also know that YS has been wanting a piece of the American MX scene for sometime now. So my question, or scenario, is did Glen Helen wait/ "not fulfill their contractual obligations" so that it looks like the two sides couldn't come to an agreement so that the public perceived it as, they tried to make MX Sports happy. All the while, they were doing talks with YS to get a GP here?
Nothing new about that as far as the US goes.
Well you can watch via the internet.
Craze
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3/31/2010 7:43pm
I have no idea who did what to who and at this point I could give a bleep...I'm just happy we have a usgp again and...
I have no idea who did what to who and at this point I could give a bleep...I'm just happy we have a usgp again and can't wait to see who from the ama shows up.

As far as crowd goes my guess is we'll see between 20-30,000 people there.
BobbyM wrote:
last week you said you understood the issues...wtf dannyboy
LOL....Set hiim straight Bobby!!!
Jwilkey
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3/31/2010 7:45pm
I would think none of the parties really know what the final outcome will be but, I'm sure they are weighting out possible results. It was a bold but necessary move by GH if they wish to remain viable as one of the "Great US MX facilities’"

RideMX
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3/31/2010 7:51pm
This might be the best move Glen Helen could have made.
BobbyM
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3/31/2010 7:54pm Edited Date/Time 3/31/2010 7:55pm
Craze wrote:
LOL....Set hiim straight Bobby!!!
danny boy....indian dunes or not, this dannyboy is a flako. post after post proves it.

and why the fuck would a national rider race a one off world title race in between nats?
txmxer
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3/31/2010 7:57pm
lot of opinions on both sides.

I tend to think it's a golden opportunity for US riders. I could be wrong. Hope we see a lot of the top US guys in the race.

Attendance? I think it will be as big as if it were a National if not bigger. As long as YS doesn't screw it up.

On the money side, I think YS gave this one away in comparison to their usual fees.
TerryK
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3/31/2010 9:50pm
Rooster wrote:
Given that the rumor is that they signed a 5 year agreement, a reasonable person might conclude that GH may make the improvements since they now...
Given that the rumor is that they signed a 5 year agreement, a reasonable person might conclude that GH may make the improvements since they now have a guarantee of 5 events to amortize the cost over.

Sounded like the big issue with MXsports was lack of a long term contract.

Looks like GH got what they wanted from somebody else.

Now we just have to get someone in Canada off their asses so we can tie a Canadian GP in with the travel expenses for the USGP and reduce the costs for everyone. Plus we get to see even more great racing.
Canadian GP? Great idea!!

Brett Lee, are you listening??? Oh wait, Walton is CMRC country and Brett is a CMRC director. Sad
CamP
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3/31/2010 10:22pm
txmxer wrote:
lot of opinions on both sides. I tend to think it's a golden opportunity for US riders. I could be wrong. Hope we see a lot...
lot of opinions on both sides.

I tend to think it's a golden opportunity for US riders. I could be wrong. Hope we see a lot of the top US guys in the race.

Attendance? I think it will be as big as if it were a National if not bigger. As long as YS doesn't screw it up.

On the money side, I think YS gave this one away in comparison to their usual fees.
"On the money side, I think YS gave this one away in comparison to their usual fees."

That's what I was thinking. My guess is YS has been falling over themselves to race a GP at Glen Helen. I can't wait to see the GP guys race that track with, or without, the top US guys racing.
Xavier
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4/1/2010 1:54am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 9:49pm
GuyB wrote:
The things that I think are interesting look like this: Having a GP in So. Cal. would probably be about the dream scenario for Youthstream. Close...
The things that I think are interesting look like this:

Having a GP in So. Cal. would probably be about the dream scenario for Youthstream. Close to the manufacturers, an established fan base, etc.

YS also has their list of infrastructure requirements (some of the same bike wash, etc. goodies that seemed objectionable to them when dealing with MX Sports). Do they jump when YS says jump?

Who handles the track design, length, etc?

How big a crowd will they draw?

The biggest one, of course, is who from the U.S. series will line up to compete? Teams will have to change their setups for sound, etc. (I'd assume the same standards as the MXoN.) Will it be the usual GP crowd only? Will some of the U.S. teams opt in? That's the big question for me.

Talking with Larry Brooks last weekend, he was really bummed that GH was off the schedule, since it's so close to the San Manuel home turf. They were looking forward to racing there and bring out their sponsors...
I wonder if the most workable deal for both the parties on short notice is to keep it as simple as possible. Something like YS wants...
I wonder if the most workable deal for both the parties on short notice is to keep it as simple as possible. Something like YS wants to be here and assumes the cost of the event and GH hands them the keys to the track to put it into place. The should have a ready made audience of folks expecting a race that weekend. Some may not even know the difference.

I don't see a lot of top US Nationals teams putting their riders at risk, and having them there would complicate things for the GP regulars. But who knows at this point.

So, it can be a pretty cool event ~ more MX is always better than less ~ but
+1


Hence the 5 -year deal and the MXDN option thrown in somewhere (I'm pretty sure Y/S gives the GP to GH at no cost this time).


It will be a very difficult operation this time, for all parties, but by giving themselves time, they play it smart.


Main problems for this edition :


- GP teams logistics.

When Y/S used to compensate the teams for that, it was an estimated 6K€ per rider ($8,1K). Y/S has quit compensating the teams last year and it was quite a controversial move. Now, adding one "overseas" event with such short notice and logistical nightmare (French GP the week after USGP!!) will be a tough sale to those teams... unless Y/S or GH pays for that, which would create a precedent. Do the math : if they have to bring top 10 of each class, that's a $160K cost ($240K for top 15). Who will pay for that bill is the key for year 1 of the deal.


- US riders participants.

Unless he has a LOT of political leverage (thru the factories in Japan), which I doubt, I don't see Luongo in a position to trigger the US-based factory teams to participate. Some riders in danger to lose their ride might be interested but, by definition, won't be in a position to ask their team to accomodate the necessary logistics between two Nationals.

One HUGE exception though : there seems to be a golden (and lucky) opportunity to attract Stewart / L&M, which would create a big enough buzz to mask the no-shows from Nationals regulars.

And as the GH GP sets in the calendar in the years to come, participation of top US riders will get better (same scenario as with the US Open)...


- Filling the gates.

Even if you have 10 (or 15?) Euro riders there + Bubba, you still need to fill in the gate. At $1350 the entry and no purse, how many will go for it and how good those racers will be ?

If Y/S - GH somehow change that rule, again, this would create a precedent that Y/S would have to deal with, later on.


- Spectators.

This is where the 5-year deal helps. One can expect a not-so-good to maybe bad turnout this time.

Not such a bid deal if you look at the big picture and, say, the MXDN at GH in 2012 or 2013.


I say GH and Luongo win round 1 hands-down, round 2 (race day) may be more difficult for them but they can expect more good rounds after.


As far as MX Sports, unless they have hidden cards that we can't think of right now, it looks as they have been taken way off-guard by that one.
mccread
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4/1/2010 3:12am
GuyB wrote:
The MXoN is something entirely different than the average GP, and it's hard to compare the two. The MXoN spawns a whole lot more national pride...
The MXoN is something entirely different than the average GP, and it's hard to compare the two. The MXoN spawns a whole lot more national pride, which is why it also ends up spawning the BRoN. (Bench Racing of Nations.)
WORCSRacer wrote:
So what you're saying is seeing the best racers from the FIM has to offer against the best racers racing here in the USA will be...
So what you're saying is seeing the best racers from the FIM has to offer against the best racers racing here in the USA will be less exciting than the MXdN?


I think there will be a shitload of flag waving going on and if there is a collective half a brain at YS they will bump the gate to 40 riders instead of the the top 26. It will be bigger than the Nat it is replacing. IMHO of course....
It already is a 40 riders gate...
Dobermann
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4/1/2010 4:36am
Guys....IS REAL THE NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Woohoo Woohoo Woohoo
Mxxer
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4/1/2010 5:29am
mccread wrote:
It already is a 40 riders gate...
An average of 30.67 riders started the first moto over the entire 2009 season.
pmcc
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4/1/2010 5:55am
They changed it back to a 40 rider gate this year! 36 regulars and 4 wildcards i think
englishman
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4/1/2010 8:49am
englishman wrote:
How has crowd attendance been at previous USGP's? Not including Carlsbad but they had one a Glen Helen around 90- 91 and a 250 one at...
How has crowd attendance been at previous USGP's?

Not including Carlsbad but they had one a Glen Helen around 90- 91 and a 250 one at Hollister around the same time and Unadilla of course and I always thought the crowds and US riders were thin on the ground ?
DownSouth wrote:
I thought the rumors were that the '98 Budds Creek GP drew only about about 8,000-10,000 fans.
Right and I think Hollister drew a crowd of about 1000.... Cows that is that were grazing in the field next door, nobody else bothered going.

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