I bought a set of Fake Riding Gear..

soggy
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4/18/2024 11:35am
studworx wrote:
I agree $50 to ride a prepped national level track isn’t the hill to die on.. What I will say to his point is on non-prep...

I agree $50 to ride a prepped national level track isn’t the hill to die on..

What I will say to his point is on non-prep days the fee shouldn’t be the same as the prep days, and evening rides should be discounted. And small tracks that groom one day a week shouldn’t be the same price as Red Bud. The issue I have is how national tracks went to $50 so all the little guys who put no work and don’t even operate as a business followed. 
 

Not 100% of business costs are pushed down to the consumer. But for a lot of tracks, they are. Equipment running costs are a write off if you operate as a proper business. And only proper businesses should be charging $50 per ride. 
 

again, I’ll happily pay it for tracks that are a business, and ran as such. 

soggy wrote:

A write off doesn’t make it free. Equipment costs a shitload to run and it breaks and you have to pay the operator 35+ an hour..

studworx wrote:
Not one track pays their track crew 35 an hour. Usually they are under the table, for cash and much less than that. (for example here...

Not one track pays their track crew 35 an hour. Usually they are under the table, for cash and much less than that. (for example here, around minimum wage just cash). 
 

And see my reply above this. 

Yea full disclosure I don’t know how much someone gets paid to prep a track. But from my operating experience 30-35/hr is going rate for an experienced operator doing skilled work(not just loading dump trucks).
 

Club tracks are the answer imo. My club costs 1000 to join, they groom 3 times a week minimum, access any time as long as they aren’t prepping.  Yea it’s a substantial amount of money but if I ride 20-30 times its well worth it.  You can bring a non member for a 35$ gate fee that goes to the club for operating costs. 

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3strokemx
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4/18/2024 11:36am
(I’m the OP) I live in Asia now, there are cheap gear options back home and great outlets, but not here unfortunately.. this is gear I...

(I’m the OP)

I live in Asia now, there are cheap gear options back home and great outlets, but not here unfortunately..

this is gear I will wear once so I wanted to check out this set just out of curiosity..

Yes I understand. I'm glad gave a quick review of it. It's interesting content that the moto media won't dare discuss!
 

LungButter
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4/18/2024 11:40am Edited Date/Time 4/18/2024 11:41am
studworx wrote:
Not one track pays their track crew 35 an hour. Usually they are under the table, for cash and much less than that. (for example here...

Not one track pays their track crew 35 an hour. Usually they are under the table, for cash and much less than that. (for example here, around minimum wage just cash). 
 

And see my reply above this. 

So you know what tracks are paying the dudes that run their equipment huh?

 

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studworx
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4/18/2024 11:44am
studworx wrote:
Because as I said, not 100% of costs are passed down to the consumer in a real business. There is such thing as “the cost of...

Because as I said, not 100% of costs are passed down to the consumer in a real business. There is such thing as “the cost of doing business”.
 

And for something that is being written off, you typically don’t also pass on 100% of the cost to the consumer. Because it’s not costing you 100% of your upfront cost. 

LungButter wrote:
How is it not costing 100% of the upfront cost? So by your line of thinking....since Lettuce is a write off for a Restaurant, they should...

How is it not costing 100% of the upfront cost?

So by your line of thinking....since Lettuce is a write off for a Restaurant, they should only worry about recouping 70% of the cost of that lettuce and not 100% of the cost of it?  Seems like a good way to go out of business.....but I could be wrong, although I did own and subsequently sell several pretty successful restaurants in a past life.

Maybe I'm missing something.

Anywho....we've thoroughly derailed this from fake gear Laughing but I stand by my original statement that most track owners aren't getting rich doing this so whatever they need to charge to keep the gate open I'll keep paying.

In my original post can you tell me what you disagree with? Because I clearly stated I 100% support paying the $50 to a track being ran as a business, putting work in to prep, etc.  But recommended they bring back en evening reduced rate, and maybe a reduced rate on as-is days with zero prep or maintenance  

But I don’t support a track operating under the table, not prepping, maintaining, etc charging the same as the track operating as a business, paying taxes, employees, running costs, etc. 

Or are you arguing because you disagree that I don’t believe 100% of upfront cost of a write off should be passed down to consumer (but will happily pay if they are maintaining the track actively)?

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The Shop

studworx
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4/18/2024 11:44am
studworx wrote:
Not one track pays their track crew 35 an hour. Usually they are under the table, for cash and much less than that. (for example here...

Not one track pays their track crew 35 an hour. Usually they are under the table, for cash and much less than that. (for example here, around minimum wage just cash). 
 

And see my reply above this. 

LungButter wrote:

So you know what tracks are paying the dudes that run their equipment huh?

 

Yes I literally worked for one, running equipment, as a kid for 4 years throughout school. 

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KHNC
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4/18/2024 11:46am

Everything looks on point tbh but I’d change out that goggle lens for a genuine one. 

Would you change out those t-ts in your profile pic for genuine? Or keep the fakes? Askin for a friend. 

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LungButter
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4/18/2024 12:43pm Edited Date/Time 4/18/2024 12:44pm
studworx wrote:

Yes I literally worked for one, running equipment, as a kid for 4 years throughout school. 

Gotcha.....so your experience at Chicken Licks raceway years ago is the exact experience at every track in existence....got it. Holy shit that's a wild line of thinking.

I know for a fact that one track local to me pays $40 an hour for their operators.  So, ummmmm you're....what's that word....or yeah, wrong.

You asked what I disagreed with, it's this: Not 100% of business costs are pushed down to the consumer. But for a lot of tracks, they are. Equipment running costs are a write off if you operate as a proper business. 

It literally make zero sense.  If 100% (plus some profit on top) of costs aren't passed to the consumer....the business losses money and goes out of business.  But I'm sure you understand that right?  Or do you run your business to only cover 80% of your business costs and just lose money every year?  

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3strokemx
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4/18/2024 1:05pm

Just to fuel the fire a little bit, check out this helmet manufacturer's customers:
image-20240418160318-1A note of caution, just because a customer helmet is manufactured by the same firm, possibly even at the same factory, they are likely built to customer specifications. 

So I wouldn't worry that a 6D or TLD helmet is the same as a Simpson or Revzilla house brand, that's not the case.  

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studworx
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4/18/2024 1:55pm Edited Date/Time 4/18/2024 2:28pm
studworx wrote:

Yes I literally worked for one, running equipment, as a kid for 4 years throughout school. 

LungButter wrote:
Gotcha.....so your experience at Chicken Licks raceway years ago is the exact experience at every track in existence....got it. Holy shit that's a wild line of...

Gotcha.....so your experience at Chicken Licks raceway years ago is the exact experience at every track in existence....got it. Holy shit that's a wild line of thinking.

I know for a fact that one track local to me pays $40 an hour for their operators.  So, ummmmm you're....what's that word....or yeah, wrong.

You asked what I disagreed with, it's this: Not 100% of business costs are pushed down to the consumer. But for a lot of tracks, they are. Equipment running costs are a write off if you operate as a proper business. 

It literally make zero sense.  If 100% (plus some profit on top) of costs aren't passed to the consumer....the business losses money and goes out of business.  But I'm sure you understand that right?  Or do you run your business to only cover 80% of your business costs and just lose money every year?  

Not at all what I’m saying. You are arguing a literal micro point. Incredible. 
 

I’m saying you do not pass every single cost onto the consumer. You mark up the services you do pass on, and those cover the expenses that you are expensing, anyways. Whatever your costs ended up being on those expensed things gets covered. But marking each individual service up and passing it onto consumers is bad practice. 
 
My point is in business we mark every service up. To cover for certain things we don’t factor in to consumer costs. I run a members only boxing academy. From North America to the Gold Coast of Australia. I have a monthly fee. $200 per month. I maintained 36,000 members per month in 2023. That $200 per month factored in everything from rents, insurance, wages, equipment fee’s, cleaning fee’s, etc. I do not factor in me or my employees driving company trucks around club to club to advertise or check in. I did not factor in flying me or employees around the world to meet with potential new customers. I did not factor in all the money I put into advertising campaigns, etc. all that was expensed. That is the cost of doing business. I also don’t factor in random expenses like maintenance issues, such as a roof top unit going out last month. That is the cost of doing business! When you are profitable, not every single thing is passed on. It’s how the monthly rate never changes. 
If you go to a pay-per-use club you could be spending $70 for 4-5 coaching hours. Whereas you have unlimited access at my clubs to all of it. You can get $1500 a month in value going 3-4 days per week. 

Long story short, you mark up non deductible expenses and it covers what write offs ended up costing you. You absolutely do not mark up up front costs of write offs  

 

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4/18/2024 3:25pm

For apparel / soft goods the mark up at the retailer is typically 100% sometimes a little more (keystone and keystone +, are the terms for that), a t-shirt that wholesales for $15.00 from the manufacturer retails for $30.00 in store. It's the retailer that makes the most money.

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Magoofan
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4/18/2024 3:47pm

Anyone know where I can find knock-off Pro-Circuit parts....

Asking for a friend. 

 

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Spooner
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4/18/2024 4:23pm
For apparel / soft goods the mark up at the retailer is typically 100% sometimes a little more (keystone and keystone +, are the terms for...

For apparel / soft goods the mark up at the retailer is typically 100% sometimes a little more (keystone and keystone +, are the terms for that), a t-shirt that wholesales for $15.00 from the manufacturer retails for $30.00 in store. It's the retailer that makes the most money.

Safe to say you've never worked in the motorcycle industry then.  I know in many retail types that is true but definitely not the case in moto. 

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wwdiii
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4/18/2024 4:27pm

I make all my own clothes and riding gear!  

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4/18/2024 4:50pm
For apparel / soft goods the mark up at the retailer is typically 100% sometimes a little more (keystone and keystone +, are the terms for...

For apparel / soft goods the mark up at the retailer is typically 100% sometimes a little more (keystone and keystone +, are the terms for that), a t-shirt that wholesales for $15.00 from the manufacturer retails for $30.00 in store. It's the retailer that makes the most money.

I wish that was the case , but so far it is not even close at the levels that most dealers are buying stuff at. 

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4/18/2024 4:57pm
eins4eins wrote:
if you don't like the prices brands are putting on their stuff, don't buy it. This doesn't justify buying counterfeits. Somebody invested in the brand to...

if you don't like the prices brands are putting on their stuff, don't buy it. This doesn't justify buying counterfeits. Somebody invested in the brand to make it available and desirable. Those guys selling copies for cheap, steal all that work and make profit from it. Would you buy other stolen stuff? Probably not.

Its cool and amazing, until it affects your own income. 

And this whole myth about counterfeits being the real stuff, just from a different channel, is as old as aliexpress. Might be true in some seldom cases, for the majority its not. They're just really good at copying. 

There’s two very easy ways to avoid this.

Crisp
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4/18/2024 5:06pm

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Dr Wario
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Livonia, MI US
4/18/2024 5:29pm

Moto truck: $30,000

MX bike: $7,000

Gear: $1,000

Tools, fluids, parts: $1,000

Track: $50 (waaaaa cry moan bitch)

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ge217
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4/18/2024 7:14pm
motosaki wrote:
Funny that everyone says China when in reality, China became too expensive a long time ago. Look at the knock off stuff, made in Vietnam. This...

Funny that everyone says China when in reality, China became too expensive a long time ago. Look at the knock off stuff, made in Vietnam. This stuff is not real and not "backdoored" by bad suppliers. The goggle for example is not an actual product. The foam and strap attachment are visibly different from an actual 100% goggle. The lens is also most likely different to make it cheaper and probably less safe.

Everyone places the blame of increased prices on marketing and sponsorship. What about testing in order to meet safety regulations? You think a knockoff helmet that hasn't been tested is worth putting on your head? Same should be said for goggles. Take some roost in the face with your $10 goggles, hopefully you don't lose an eye.

Brands pay to build an image, they also deal with certifications, testing, R&D for new projects, potential liability. Add to that markup for distributors and dealers. Everyone thinks that brands are making huge profits on a $200 pair of pants, I guarantee you that is not the case.

These brands are also the ones that support the sport and allow us to watch live races every Saturday night. Consider that the next time you think it's worth saving a few bucks on knockoff gear.

 

You know FXR has been made in Vietnam for good 5 plus years now? I just picked up a 24 FOX Airline kit from my local dealer. Made in Vietnam. These companies are cutting their own throats doing business there. FXR was made in Pakistan around 2018, real quality stuff then. They switched two manufacturers to end up in Vietnam. In FXR’s case, they don’t make boots, don’t do helmets, and pretty sure their googles are made from a different google company. So how much r&d are they doing. 

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4/18/2024 7:23pm
zehn wrote:

Could be that they’re not actually fake and just sold out the back door of the factory

Either way, score!

had mates buying the same deal with golf clubs ..ping, Calloway etc up in hong kong.....they were legit just a back door scenario.....

OwenJakes
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sebree, KY US
4/18/2024 8:48pm
OwenJakes wrote:
Dude these guys foam at the mouth when I tell them a ride day should not and can not be $50 and more. You’re talking to...

Dude these guys foam at the mouth when I tell them a ride day should not and can not be $50 and more. You’re talking to the air on this one unfortunately. 

LungButter wrote:
That's a whole different debate. You ever ran equipment to know what it costs just to start that shit up every day?  You think that cats...

That's a whole different debate.

You ever ran equipment to know what it costs just to start that shit up every day?  You think that cats and skid steers and loaders run on pixie dust?

You checked the price of diesel and hydraulic oil and diesel motor oil lately?

Look, I don't wanna pay more than I have to either but most the tracks that I go to I don't see the owners rolling around in Bentleys....they ain't getting rich.  They are charging what they have to charge to keep the gate open.

Actually our family has a very large logging outfit which is why I KNOW it doesn’t cost that to put on a practice day. It’s not that hard on equipment to pull a till around either. Neither is it “hard work” for a dozer to be pushing dirt on a few jumps. 

where I can’t and won’t comment is on property and water costs but I’ve yet to visit a track that didn’t have a pond. Insurances and taxes as well. Can’t comment there. 
 

bottom line - a practice day does not cost $1000 to host. Period. 

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OwenJakes
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4/18/2024 8:49pm
Dr Wario wrote:

Moto truck: $30,000

MX bike: $7,000

Gear: $1,000

Tools, fluids, parts: $1,000

Track: $50 (waaaaa cry moan bitch)

You behave feminine. 

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WhipMeister
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4/18/2024 8:54pm
Richy wrote:
I'm not arguing with your opinion at all, but t's not counterfeit, although some would say it's worse. A lot (or almost all) of gear companies...

I'm not arguing with your opinion at all, but t's not counterfeit, although some would say it's worse.

A lot (or almost all) of gear companies have their stuff produced 'over there' and the Chinese have absolutely no morales, customer loyalty or business etiquette, so they often just sell it themselves for nothing.

It sucks for the companies who have done the research, the design, and paid money for production and shipping etc for inventory only for the company they've paid to produce their products to undersell them...

But money talks. Perhaps the actual gear companies need to adjust their prices as clearly they  are putting MASSIVE markup on this cheap Chinese clothing.

Not judging anyone or picking sides, just saying.

There is something to what you are saying.. if this company can sell a set of gear at $40 and still make enough profit for it...

There is something to what you are saying..

if this company can sell a set of gear at $40 and still make enough profit for it to be worthwhile, you can’t convince me that the legit stuff needs to be 10x more expensive..

What if it's not counterfeit, but is stolen?

4/18/2024 8:55pm
TerryB wrote:
Most "real" gear is junk and falls apart in no time.  The prices are outrageous for how long it lasts. Boots and Helmets from the big...

Most "real" gear is junk and falls apart in no time.  The prices are outrageous for how long it lasts.

Boots and Helmets from the big players seem to last, but the gloves, jerseys and pants... all start coming apart after a couple of rides.

I’ve been wearing FXR since ‘17 and other than their gloves, my gear had held up great. Most comfortable pants/ jerseys, gloves run small and fingers have blown out out on a few pairs. 

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4/18/2024 9:11pm
OwenJakes wrote:
Dude these guys foam at the mouth when I tell them a ride day should not and can not be $50 and more. You’re talking to...

Dude these guys foam at the mouth when I tell them a ride day should not and can not be $50 and more. You’re talking to the air on this one unfortunately. 

LungButter wrote:
That's a whole different debate. You ever ran equipment to know what it costs just to start that shit up every day?  You think that cats...

That's a whole different debate.

You ever ran equipment to know what it costs just to start that shit up every day?  You think that cats and skid steers and loaders run on pixie dust?

You checked the price of diesel and hydraulic oil and diesel motor oil lately?

Look, I don't wanna pay more than I have to either but most the tracks that I go to I don't see the owners rolling around in Bentleys....they ain't getting rich.  They are charging what they have to charge to keep the gate open.

Some track owners don't care if the track makes money, it's a cash business which can be used for laundering money from other less reputable sources.

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4/18/2024 9:12pm
Dr Wario wrote:

Moto truck: $30,000

MX bike: $7,000

Gear: $1,000

Tools, fluids, parts: $1,000

Track: $50 (waaaaa cry moan bitch)

You only ride once?

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studworx
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4/18/2024 9:52pm Edited Date/Time 4/18/2024 9:59pm
OwenJakes wrote:
Dude these guys foam at the mouth when I tell them a ride day should not and can not be $50 and more. You’re talking to...

Dude these guys foam at the mouth when I tell them a ride day should not and can not be $50 and more. You’re talking to the air on this one unfortunately. 

LungButter wrote:
That's a whole different debate. You ever ran equipment to know what it costs just to start that shit up every day?  You think that cats...

That's a whole different debate.

You ever ran equipment to know what it costs just to start that shit up every day?  You think that cats and skid steers and loaders run on pixie dust?

You checked the price of diesel and hydraulic oil and diesel motor oil lately?

Look, I don't wanna pay more than I have to either but most the tracks that I go to I don't see the owners rolling around in Bentleys....they ain't getting rich.  They are charging what they have to charge to keep the gate open.

OwenJakes wrote:
Actually our family has a very large logging outfit which is why I KNOW it doesn’t cost that to put on a practice day. It’s not...

Actually our family has a very large logging outfit which is why I KNOW it doesn’t cost that to put on a practice day. It’s not that hard on equipment to pull a till around either. Neither is it “hard work” for a dozer to be pushing dirt on a few jumps. 

where I can’t and won’t comment is on property and water costs but I’ve yet to visit a track that didn’t have a pond. Insurances and taxes as well. Can’t comment there. 
 

bottom line - a practice day does not cost $1000 to host. Period. 

When I was a youngin’ and worked at one of our smaller MX tracks while I was in school, this is how a typical summer week worked out: 

this was over a decade ago, and a pretty small track. Purely for perspective on operating costs. Our weekly riders were bigger tracks daily averages on a weekend  

350 riders per week, usually most traffic Sat-Sun which was around 150 on a sat and 100 on a Sun. 100 throughout the week. 
$30 entry at the time

$10,500 per week (average) 

Groom 3 days a week  Thurs, Sat, Sun

Total equipment run time combining all equipment was around 7 hours per week.

10 gallons per hour = 70 gallons per week

Price of dyed diesel at the time was $4.90 per gallon

fuel cost per week = $350 typically   

Watering was done via irrigation system fed by an on-site pond. We ran the irrigation system 1 hour per day, all 5 days we were open. Cost per day was around $30 in fuel 

$10,000

Now insurance.. at that time Insurance was $250 per practice day. We were open 5 days a week. $1500 in insurance per week. 
 

$8500

There was no flaggers on any day, 3 employees. One at front counter, and 2 maintenance/labours. All were paid $15 cash at the time for each of the 5 days we were open for the entire 8 hours per day. 
Wages: $360 a day - 1800 a week

$6700

That was pretty much it for weekly operating costs

No property loan as it was owned for 50+ years

Property tax around $3500 per year. 
Equipment cost was $1500 per month in financing 

Give or take, $6275 per week post expenses, $25,000 a month. 
Of course this doesn’t factor in absolutely everything. But it’s just some perspective into day-to-day running costs. 

It’s a good gig considering it was a smaller track that only averaged around 350 guys per week: some bigger tracks get that per day

 

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4/19/2024 1:22am

I have some experience in this, when a brand is sold through dealers it has a few hands to go through. Let’s say a jersey costs $7 to make:

 

$7 manufacturing cost

 

$21 distributor cost + shipping & duty

 

$35 dealer cost 

 

$49.99 RRP

 

Nobody gets rich here, the manufacturer invests in R&D, it has employees and it signs those high value internationally recognised athletes. The distributor has the storage and financing, employees and also does some regional/national sponsorship and marketing. The dealer has his building, his employees and also supports local guys and helps out with discounts.

 

Circumnavigating this and buying from Temu is contributing to lowering the investment in our sport that so many are saying is dying. When buying through official channels your dollars or pounds are being spent to support a network of people that develop these products, market them and introduce them into a sales channel, not just a CEO who you think is making $43 off a jersey.

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David934
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4/19/2024 3:24am
eins4eins wrote:

nothing cool or amazing in buying counterfeit stuff. 

How do you know from your computer that stuff is fake?

eins4eins
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DE
4/19/2024 3:58am
eins4eins wrote:

nothing cool or amazing in buying counterfeit stuff. 

David934 wrote:

How do you know from your computer that stuff is fake?

Because i have experience with this topic from my job. Every serious brand has processes in place to ensure that their supplier doesn't sell stuff through the backdoor and those processes work very good. Contracts include hefty fines and in the end, its also not in the interest of the manufacturer to loose customers. 

 

Price too high is a lame excuse for buying counterfeits. Nobody is forced to buy the 200$ goggle or 300$ pants. There are alternatives for much less. But if you're honest, the reason you're not buying them but rather the cheap copy is because they're not cool enough and you want the big brand logo to brag with.

And the reason you want the big brand logo is that you see the Pro's and all other cool guys wearing it. Which makes complaining about sponsoring, because it increases prices, the most stupid argument of all.

 

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