From MXA

RACERX69 wrote:

My conclusion is simply an opinion drawn from other threads, including DC's vague attmept at clarity and also this statement by Jody. No crap this was...

My conclusion is simply an opinion drawn from other threads, including DC's vague attmept at clarity and also this statement by Jody. No crap this was a mutual business decision between the two party's. I'm not questioning that. I do question why GH along with possibly Hangtown and Washougal were only offerd a 1 year contract. Why were other tracks offered more? Doesn't seem like a wise business decison on Feldcamp's part to dump truckloads of $$ into the facilty when there was no gurantee of future revenue stream. It's an un-realistic request from MX Sports plain and simple, and one I hope all you smart guy's wouldn't accecpt if you were running a business.

I realize there has been much push and pull over the years between Feldcamp and the promoters and I don't think he's free from blame in this situation. I just feel MX Sports and DC intentionally backed him into a corner leaving him no other choice than to end the relationship.Seems MX sports intentionally put the onus on Feldcamp and in the end got what they wanted. No GH!! Dirty Pool imo. No matter what though, both sides had a responsibility to make this year's race happen.

It's just a shame, GH represented core MX and if anyone understood that, i figured it would've been DC. If there was ever an exception to be made in his master plan, GH should've been it.

In the end, I'm just dissapointed. This was the one race I looked forward to attending every year and this year was no different. I've attended many other venues and none even come close to the experience of GH. All these yahoos who are sitting on there hands blindly following DC have obviously never been to an Outdoor National at GH. If they have, imo, aren't true fans of the sport.

One more thing to rant about before I conclude. I'm out 5 bills in airfare, damn it!!!

wired4speed wrote:

Broome, Glen Helen....sounds like the making of another outdoor series.

c3011 wrote:

Does Youthstream still have a so. Cal. office? I bet something involved with the GP's turns up at GH and possibly any other track that has...

Does Youthstream still have a so. Cal. office? I bet something involved with the GP's turns up at GH and possibly any other track that has trouble with MX Sports.

oldx wrote:

I don't think Jody is as important as he thinks he is. I know for a fact he is not and has never been as fast...

I don't think Jody is as important as he thinks he is. I know for a fact he is not and has never been as fast as he thinks he is or was.

The Rock wrote:

It is right next to the track at the end of the Walk of Fame. Legal question FTE-Is it possible to write a contract with a...

It is right next to the track at the end of the Walk of Fame.


Legal question FTE-Is it possible to write a contract with a clause specifying if one (or both) of the parties doesn't live up to the contract then the contract is null and void?

Shenzi wrote:

Rock, that's what we (sponsors) do with riders, that's pretty standard.

kwebster447 wrote:

I would be curious to hear DC's side of this "smooth track" issue. I tend to agree with Jody that a rough track makes for better...

I would be curious to hear DC's side of this "smooth track" issue. I tend to agree with Jody that a rough track makes for better racing. However, if there is a legitimate correlation between rough tracks and rider safety that would make sense too.

CR250Rider wrote:

Jody speaks from his MX heart, Dc speaks as a businessman.



MXA is 10x the magazine racer-ex is,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Moto East Mag wrote:

What do we know, we're just "cellar dwellers" according to Jody. We are the ignorant masses-- a throng of barbarians whose only brief union with the...

What do we know, we're just "cellar dwellers" according to Jody.
We are the ignorant masses-- a throng of barbarians whose only brief union with the light of knowledge is when the Elite Gods of Motocross Industry choose to rain enlightenment upon our darkened, desperate souls.
He has spoken. All must remain silent and bask in the joy and wonder of the nuggets of wisdom dropping from On High.

TJ 755 wrote:

Shougal is next... been expecting it for years...sux

bana0401 wrote:

What a bunch of flipping crybaby whiners, its business dont make it so personal. If Glen Helen would have done a better job they would not...

What a bunch of flipping crybaby whiners, its business dont make it so personal. If Glen Helen would have done a better job they would not be in this boat. MXA stop the whining!

CR250Rider wrote:

Jody speaks from his MX heart, Dc speaks as a businessman.



MXA is 10x the magazine racer-ex is,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Moto East Mag wrote:

What do we know, we're just "cellar dwellers" according to Jody. We are the ignorant masses-- a throng of barbarians whose only brief union with the...

What do we know, we're just "cellar dwellers" according to Jody.
We are the ignorant masses-- a throng of barbarians whose only brief union with the light of knowledge is when the Elite Gods of Motocross Industry choose to rain enlightenment upon our darkened, desperate souls.
He has spoken. All must remain silent and bask in the joy and wonder of the nuggets of wisdom dropping from On High.

Pdub wrote:

Wow. What he said.

HuskyEd wrote:

Copied from MXA: By Jody Weisel Although many people have an urge to make the story about Glen Helen dropping off of the AMA National schedule...

Copied from MXA:

By Jody Weisel

Although many people have an urge to make the story about Glen Helen dropping off of the AMA National schedule into a classic tale of good and evil—it was for the most part a business deal that didn’t work out (and, yes, there were a lot of different points of disagreement that would have had to have been worked out).

Yet, in its simplest terms, Glen Helen wanted a long-term contract before they would commit to holding another National. You can’t blame them. It is a big investment, much larger than what the cellar dwellers on the internet could ever comprehend, and without a guarantee that he will be holding a race the following year, a promoter could lose his shirt if there was a rain storm, earthquake, tornado, wind event or other crowd killing catastrophe. If you don’t believe that, ask the promoters who held AMA Nationals in 2009 during major thunderstorms. There is even one East Coast National that failed to pay the money they owed on time.

As for facility upgrades at the track: Glen Helen has added immensely to its facility in the last few years; including a two-story sign-up building (that the AMA uses at the National); there are three separate permanent restrooms at Glen Helen (one in each of the towers and the original one near the starting gate, plus Glen Helen brings in 200 port-cans on race weekend and meets all the MX Sports requirements for water bibs and porta-cans in the pits), Glen Helen also built an elevated viewing platform, separate announcer’s tower and added a second paved road into the track from the back (which comes from a massive parking lot with free parking). Glen Helen also has eight acres of flat pits and a separate, air-conditioned building for timing and scoring. Glen Helen was also the only track to comply with MX Sports’ request to build a bike washing area for all the bikes at the National (after it was built, MX Sports said that since no one else built one that it wouldn’t be used). Glen Helen was also the only race track in the USA to donate to the Danny "Magoo" Chandler Van Fund. Did everyone forget that Glen Helen opened it pits up for free in 2009? Other tracks charged up to $20 for a pit pass! Additionally, Glen Helen builds a new racetrack every year and fences it on both sides to allow the fans to get as close to the action as possible (this costs Glen Helen $50,000 and few if any tracks on the National circuit redesign their tracks every year).



What is true is that Glen Helen fought hard not to knuckle under to the AMA’s Steve Whitelock’s or MX Sports’ John Ayers’ “smooth track” concept (and every AMA National track owner should continue to fight against this stupid idea). And although harsh words were spoken every year, especially last year when John Ayers, and John Ayers alone, decided to put a Monster Arch on the landing ramp of a jump, the track was not a factor in the contract talks. Davey Coombs said on Thursday, “It had nothing to do with the track– Jody builds a very dynamic, spectacular track, and I asked him before about building some more in the future. Losing the race course itself is the most regrettable part of this development.”

So, the real issues on the demise of Glen Helen’s National program really boiled down to the length of the contract. Many other AMA National tracks had four-year deals. Glen Helen only had a deal for 2010, with no guarantee for 2011 or beyond. With another SoCal racetrack telling everyone who would listen that they were getting the Glen Helen date in 2011, it became obvious to Glen Helen owner Dr. Bud Feldkamp that MX Sports had no intention of renewing the contract after May 29th, 2010. Thus, Glen Helen pushed for a long-term deal. As an AMA National and FIM Grand Prix track (and the track that donated its use to save what was left of the ill-fated Competition Park MXDN in San Jacinto; honoring every MXDN ticket and holding the World Cup event so that teams that were stranded in America could have a race), Glen Helen felt that being the only National on the circuit not to have a long-term contract was a slap in the face.

Davey Coombs said on Thursday, in answering an email, “...for what it's worth, the one-year extension was the same one that a track in Pennsylvania got.” This is true, but actually false. MX Sports runs the track in Pennsylvania in question (Mt. Morris) and has already decided to drop Mt. Morris off the 2011 schedule because of disputes with the land owner. Thus, the one-year extension at Mt. Morris is not comparable to the one-year extension at Glen Helen.

So, when MX Sports refused to extend Glen Helen’s National contract, Glen Helen assumed that MX Sports had already committed, at least in principle, to the other track in question for 2011 (Pala).

"This was a difficult decision, but ultimately, we simply were not able to come to contractual terms with Glen Helen Raceway," said Davey Coombs. "By moving the date to September 11, we will have time to find a suitable venue. Riders, teams and fans are making travel plans now and we want them to feel secure that we will have an exceptional venue ready in Southern California. We apologize for any inconvenience caused by this change."

Leading up to the eventual outcome, Glen Helen, Hangtown and Washougal sought legal counsel (together) to resolve issues with MX Sports. The Hangtown group is not a favorite of MX Sports (nor vice versa), but it is reported that they got some of what they were asking for. Washougal, on the other hand, felt that they were on the chopping block for 2011—thus, they joined with Glen Helen and Hangtown as a group. Hangtown, for its part, did not stick with the group, but instead took the MX Sports compromise deal and dropped out of their “one-for-all” agreement with the other two tracks. It wasn’t the bravura move that you would expect from the Dirt Digger MC, but it happened. As for Washougal, that deal hasn't been decided yet. But Washougal feels that its days are numbered with MX Sports (and with talk of more Nationals at automobile tracks in the future), they wanted to fight now instead of getting the axe later (and alone). Perhaps, Glen Helen dropping out will get them a contract extension. We'll see.

As Davey Coombs said, “Change is never easy. Glen Helen's decision to cancel their 2010 National over the length of their new contract is as surprising as it is disappointing. It leaves us no choice but to move forward and find a new facility in Southern California. I feel bad for the fans of Glen Helen, as well as the ones who have already made travels plans for Memorial Day weekend.”

The reason that few people heard about what was transpiring was because contract talks are private until a resolution of some kind is reached. There was always the possibility of some kind of agreement. And, if the media had reported on this issue a week ago, it would have said that Hangtown, Glen Helen and Washougal were all going to pullout of the 2010 AMA Nationals. That would have been inaccurate—because negotiation take many twists and turns. Thus, nobody involved said anything in hopes that it would all work out. It should be noted that several leaks caused rumors to spread that actually impacted the contract talks—it is obvious that the rumors tainted the opinion of Glen Helen against the true intent of MX Sports’ position.

No one conspired to ruin the sport. MX Sports and Glen Helen had a difference of opinion, and based on the available evidence, they negotiated with their ultimate goals in mind. It didn’t work out.

This is also not about a battle between MXA and Racer X. Apart from the fact that I design the Glen Helen National track and have for 15 years, MXA has nothing to do with the management of Glen Helen (although we do race there all the time). Davey and I meet often to discuss issues of interest about the Nationals (we just had lunch two months ago). I am often at odds with Davey (particularly on the smooth track concept, moto length, track length, timed qualifying and limiting pro rider entries), but we normally state our opinions, agree to meet again when he’s in town and move forward. I don’t see how either magazine benefits from the AMA National series getting a black-eye.

On a side note: It is refreshing that neither Glen Helen nor MX Sports are attempting to trash each other in their press releases. The Nationals will continue and Glen Helen will most likely find another high-profile event for their facility.

oldschoolmxr203 wrote:

"cellar dwellers"

FreshTopEnd wrote:

After sleeping on it, it’s pretty clear that Jody's “article” isn't an explanation but an attempt at continuing negotiations through MXA’s forum. If it wasn’t that...

After sleeping on it, it’s pretty clear that Jody's “article” isn't an explanation but an attempt at continuing negotiations through MXA’s forum. If it wasn’t that, it would have been the usual scorched earth sniping from the Jody’s box throne instead of an uncharacteristically conciliatory recognition of DC and RX in spite of their acknowledged differences on some issues and this contract.


Negotiating in public to appeal to the court of public opinion and throwing other people under the bus at the same time isn't a very smart thing to do. It's a sign of desperation.


What's absent in all of that unloading of everyone else’s supposed dirty laundry is any explanation of what MXSports was asking them to do that they were unwilling to do in one year, but would be willing to do in three.


What commitment are they unwilling to make for one year that they are willing to make for three?


That's the issue, isn't it? Not smooth tracks or relocating to car racing facilities (Pala is a car racing facility?). Not shorter tracks or shorter motos. None of that red herring crap that gets hoisted up the purist flagpole The issue is how long the contract is and what facility improvements are part of that. That’s according to Jody. There aren’t other issues.


The notion that Jody is some purist above business and DC’s a suit is ridiculous. Jody’s not on his side of the deal with his wallet. Bud Feldkamp is. Bud Feldkamp is a businessman. He’s pretty clearly willing to play brinksmanship. Fair enough. That's how people get close to the deal they want. That's business. Anyone not concerned about the business in these times is a fool. To assume that motocross is not accountable to some bottom line is delusional. Jody's not delusional on this; he says flat out it was a business difference. Not a competing purist vision difference, a business difference.


Rock, to answer your question, people can generally write whatever contract they agree to as long as the object isn’t illegal. Contracts are private law governing the parties (which is why it’s not possible to offer an opinion on contract rights without seeing the contract). That includes, if the parties choose, performance benchmarks, with the failure to meet those cause for termination (although that can be a litigation trap for the party seeking to terminate if the other parties fail to perform). That might have been a great place to start a counterproposal six weeks ago rather than setting up a cabal of other tracks you expect to join you in slitting your wrists.


Sometimes negotiating a deal gets ugly. A lot of the time it gets ugly. Usually in private, and then everyone either smiles at the deal or quietly moves on.

DANIELINS wrote:

My opinion is this: when you have a few years in this sport you begin to not only appreciate whats happening now with the sport but...

My opinion is this: when you have a few years in this sport you begin to not only appreciate whats happening now with the sport but what has happened before, glen helen for all it's faults is a legendary track like carlsbad, saddleback, hopetown etc etc.... if you are fairly new to the sport tradition probably means nothing.... it seems to me that mx sports wants to dumb down the sport and make it more mainstream, bring in new fans... can't argue with that but when you start replacing these tracks with pala, honeylake or maybe an infield track at barber than you are damaging the sport... i have no doubt that d.c. loves the sport of mx but it seems to me that they wanted glen helen to go away, everyone gets a multi year deal and glen helen gets a one year deal, seems pretty plain to me.... motocross is a tough sport, we used to have mud holes and other natural obsticles for christ sake...now they want supercross outdoors, you have to be freekin kidding me.... and i guess i am an old guy because i really don't care if we attract the nascar guys or the monster truck crowd.. motocross is just that, motocross... not some dumbed down version of supercross.... seems the tail is starting to wag the dog..... just my 2 cents...

DANIELINS wrote:

My opinion is this: when you have a few years in this sport you begin to not only appreciate whats happening now with the sport but...

My opinion is this: when you have a few years in this sport you begin to not only appreciate whats happening now with the sport but what has happened before, glen helen for all it's faults is a legendary track like carlsbad, saddleback, hopetown etc etc.... if you are fairly new to the sport tradition probably means nothing.... it seems to me that mx sports wants to dumb down the sport and make it more mainstream, bring in new fans... can't argue with that but when you start replacing these tracks with pala, honeylake or maybe an infield track at barber than you are damaging the sport... i have no doubt that d.c. loves the sport of mx but it seems to me that they wanted glen helen to go away, everyone gets a multi year deal and glen helen gets a one year deal, seems pretty plain to me.... motocross is a tough sport, we used to have mud holes and other natural obsticles for christ sake...now they want supercross outdoors, you have to be freekin kidding me.... and i guess i am an old guy because i really don't care if we attract the nascar guys or the monster truck crowd.. motocross is just that, motocross... not some dumbed down version of supercross.... seems the tail is starting to wag the dog..... just my 2 cents...

kwebster447 wrote:

I would be curious to hear DC's side of this "smooth track" issue. I tend to agree with Jody that a rough track makes for better...

I would be curious to hear DC's side of this "smooth track" issue. I tend to agree with Jody that a rough track makes for better racing. However, if there is a legitimate correlation between rough tracks and rider safety that would make sense too.

DANIELINS wrote:

My opinion is this: when you have a few years in this sport you begin to not only appreciate whats happening now with the sport but...

My opinion is this: when you have a few years in this sport you begin to not only appreciate whats happening now with the sport but what has happened before, glen helen for all it's faults is a legendary track like carlsbad, saddleback, hopetown etc etc.... if you are fairly new to the sport tradition probably means nothing.... it seems to me that mx sports wants to dumb down the sport and make it more mainstream, bring in new fans... can't argue with that but when you start replacing these tracks with pala, honeylake or maybe an infield track at barber than you are damaging the sport... i have no doubt that d.c. loves the sport of mx but it seems to me that they wanted glen helen to go away, everyone gets a multi year deal and glen helen gets a one year deal, seems pretty plain to me.... motocross is a tough sport, we used to have mud holes and other natural obsticles for christ sake...now they want supercross outdoors, you have to be freekin kidding me.... and i guess i am an old guy because i really don't care if we attract the nascar guys or the monster truck crowd.. motocross is just that, motocross... not some dumbed down version of supercross.... seems the tail is starting to wag the dog..... just my 2 cents...

ridge wrote:

Smoother tracks make for tighter racing, unfortunately. Why do you think NASCAR is so close at the end of their races? It's simple, they levelled the...

Smoother tracks make for tighter racing, unfortunately. Why do you think NASCAR is so close at the end of their races? It's simple, they levelled the playing field.

All of that "Indian Money" is still US currency. And, it will probably all go towards getting motocross on TV more often.

MX Sports is a business and the more popular motocross gets, the more money they make.

JB65 wrote:

Faster Mx does not equate to closer racing, And Nascar is kept close by a pace car. "Oh my god what have i done" Alec Guiness...

Faster Mx does not equate to closer racing,
And Nascar is kept close by a pace car.

"Oh my god what have i done"
Alec Guiness - Bridge over the River Kwai
jb.

slomoto wrote:

isnt Pala all flat? so it will become a supercross track.......lame!

2Smoke wrote:

Pala is mostly flat right now with a big step-up and a couple of small downhills. They have plenty of land out there where they could...

Pala is mostly flat right now with a big step-up and a couple of small downhills. They have plenty of land out there where they could probably put together a solid outdoor track, but the bigger issue is accessibility. it is a single lane winding country road that takes 20-25 minutes from the freeway with no traffic. it will be a nightmare trying to get all the teams and spectators to the venue and there is no way around it. unless pala wanted to fork up 10's of millions to widen the road. i'd rather sit and watch it at home then be in traffic for 4-5 hours trying to get to the track.

Moto East Mag wrote:

What do we know, we're just "cellar dwellers" according to Jody. We are the ignorant masses-- a throng of barbarians whose only brief union with the...

What do we know, we're just "cellar dwellers" according to Jody.
We are the ignorant masses-- a throng of barbarians whose only brief union with the light of knowledge is when the Elite Gods of Motocross Industry choose to rain enlightenment upon our darkened, desperate souls.
He has spoken. All must remain silent and bask in the joy and wonder of the nuggets of wisdom dropping from On High.

Pdub wrote:

Wow. What he said.

CamP wrote:

Jody is more clued in than 90% of the internet wannabes and I think I'm being generous when I say 90%.