This is going to be a bit long winded, so I apologize in advance.
I have 11 hours on a GG MC350F and I am seriously considering changing it for a '22-23 CRF250R. I realize this may appear a stark contrast.
I purchased a 350 based on their reputation as the perfect in-between vet friendly bike. I was 230lbs at the time and getting back into the sport so I wanted something more than a 250f but not a 450. I made the decision for a 350 in part out of ignorance on how capable modern day 250f's can be, and because I wanted a bike I could grow on as my speed increased.
Though I realize 11 hours of ride time is limited, I am not sold on the 350. Although I am now 215lbs (and dropping) - for my mid-to-front pack c class vet skill, I am sure I would not be losing anything on a 250f. Other than comfort and confidence, the bike itself is not going to make or break my results.
In preparation for this upcoming season I have been trying to decide whether to invest in a spring fork conversion (6500) to try and mold the 350 into what I hope it can be, or instead purchase a CRF250R. I own a Twisted mapped ECU for the 350, purchased to help with the engine braking and increase bottom-end. I would remap the Vortex for the Honda.
After my time on the 350, I am not partial to it. My brother-in-law owns a '21 KX250 and I like the ergo's and the overall power delivery on that bike for a 250. My understanding is that the Honda and KX feel similar in ergonomics (I am 6'4), with the CRF having stronger bottom-end power.
So why the CRF250R? The light and nimble feeling I hear about, the ergonomics, accommodating for taller guys like the KX, strong (enough?) power delivery for my skill level. I appreciate that any bike for my weight will require springs and/or a revalve, especially the '22 crf250r from what I hear. My thinking with the 250f is it would help me better develop my skills and fitness on a bike I am more capable of getting more out of.
So really it comes down to this. Keep the 350 and invest in 6500's in hopes of transforming the bike and accept the current ergo's and steel frame feel, but fear giving up some power. Or change it out in favor of a '22-'23 CRF250R, respring/revalve and ride it, with the potential to add a big-bore kit in the future if required.
Looking for guys who can speak from experience to offer their opinion. My fear is that I will spend the money on the GasGas and at the end of the day, it's still an Austrian bike, not necessarily a bad thing, I think I feel more at home on the Japanese frames.
Get the Honda
I really like my CRF250. I've owned a bunch of bikes and this is by far one of the easiest to ride. I'm 195 pounds and find the power to be enough for my vet b skill level. I love the feel of the cable clutch on this bike.
Only downside I find is that the bike is a bit finicky when it comes to suspension set up and you have to constantly be in a good riding position to get the bike to handle well. I find this a good thing because it forces me to ride with proper form and not get lazy on the bike. If I stay in good form the bike turns on a dime.
Man that’s a really tough one. But if you felt comfortable on the KX, why not one of those or maybe the new 24 Kawi 450?
My issue with the CRF is personally I find it very rigid when the track gets rough and most of the power is when the bike is at high RPM.
I just wonder at your weight how that power will be.
It’s so hard to say because I don’t think changing the 350 fork will magically transform the bike but I’m not sure if the crf250 will magically be your favorite bike either?
I can’t comment on the the MC350. I have a 23 Honda, same as 22, pretty sure 24’s are the same too.
It’s all about set up with the Honda. It’s not easy setup forgiving like a Yamaha.
The Honda has a great very Yamaha like power band, sits good, reliable but unless you have spring rate right/settings right it’s slippery on exit and I mean slippery on exit. Last year I was at 225 and swapped rear spring for the OEM Honda. Then beer and BBQ got the best of me and gained some weight. A couple of weeks back I went with a heavier racetech rear spring but every time I try to go to the track it rains. So far I haven’t been able to get the right set up but I haven’t worked real hard at it and have other bikes to ride. The Honda front forks are stiff for most but at your weigh I’d guess you will like the front, I like the front on mine. I’ve posted on my Honda before. I have a love hate relationship with it. Honda’s are well engineered, easy to work on, service etc. But my experience picky to set up. If you can deal with ridged frame and get one set up they with carve. One other thing about the Honda. It starts and runs good and clean. It doesn’t seem to have any quirks as far as start, run idle etc. No flashing firmware or back to the dealer crap. Hondas are picky but solid.
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Thought I would try something different since I have the opportunity to ride the KX whenever I want. It sounds like the CRF has more bottom-end pull which as a 200lbs+ vet rider sounds like a plus to me.
The '23 KX450 sounds appealing, but the cost is a bit out of reach right now. Also, not sure how well I would get on with the 450 at my skill level.
Any chance installing some Flexx bars and different engine hangers/mounts would help with the felt rigidity? I don't have a problem spending a bit of money to make the chassis feel plusher and more compliant if everything else is favorable. Obviously, you can only take things so far without getting into re-engineering. Not willing to get into that type of money. But for basic bolt on parts and a likely suspension revalve, I would be willing to spend that money (maybe not on triple clamps though).
The new Honda 250 has decent bottom end.
225lb vet c guy on a 23 crf250. I can’t see how anyone would not love this bike. I softened the front two clicks stiffened the rear one plus sped rebound one and it is very comfortable. More than enough power for me and I ride mostly sand. If you’re ever in WA let me know and you can ride it.
I love my Honda. Like people have mentioned it took a little bit to get dialed however, everyone that rides it cant say enough good things. Suspension, Ecu, Yosh, 110 on the rear, plus one tooth on the rear sprocket.
Man, I wish you were closer. I have a 22 KX250 with all the PC goodies, Arc levers, Twin Air powerflow kit on it I would trade out for that 350.
Why?
Current 250f are IMO the perfect bike NOW, with the programable mapping, they offer what I believe to be the best of all worlds for MX. Lighter total weight, very good to excellent torque achievability, HP numbers that work for the vast majority of amateur riders, excellent, tunable suspension, quality OEM parts, and aftermarket parts availability is endless.
The 350cc motocross bike was a gap filler that at the time of introduction in the early 2010's was deemed "the perfect size" and I don't think that applies anymore, at least not like it used to.
Yes, I've ridden and raced them all, and again this is my opinion.
If I were shopping for a new bike now, it would be a 250f.
hit the nail on the head with this post.
The Honda is down 10% on power compared to the Kawi and Austrian bikes and almost 5% down compared to the Yamaha. It only out pulls the Austrian bikes below 7k rpm and starts to get gapped above that. It does rev out further than the Yamaha. The steering on the Honda is crazy when you have it set up right but it is not as stable as the other bikes.
Compared to your 350 you will be down about 30% on power. If you are not using all the power the 350 has the 250 may be easier to ride and you might ride it faster because it will not be as intimidating.
It sounds like you are getting a new Honda this weekend..
I went from the Yamaha to the Honda, it’s made me a better rider. It has ergos that make good body positioning and technique more natural. It’s not as stable as the Yamaha, but the way it handles, you can just carve around any big pot holes. I love riding it. If you get an FC revalve and linkage, it’s really one of the best packages out there right now for a vet rider just looking to have fun. Add an ECU, exhaust, and fuel, and you’re really having fun.
Also, the thing looks killer in the garage.
Agreed. I’ve riden all the Austrian bikes, 2 stroke and 4 stroke in the last few years. Riden with every combination of suspension from A kit cone valves and Traxx, Ohlins, KYB, MX Tech, etc…. I was last racing a 450 KTM, both a SXF in vet/senior moto and a XCF off-road, I then switched to a new Yamaha 250f. Immediately with stock suspension I was able to hang with my group on the MX track who were still on 450’s. Same thing off-road. The biggest difference is I don’t get tired near as soon now. For reference, I’m 230 lbs dressed to ride. If you’re on the fence about a 250, don’t be. The modern 250f’s are so good! Also, some people just jell better with the aluminum framed bikes. Once the Austrians switched from the 18’ frame, they have just been going down hill IMO, but not everyone will agree with that thought.
I finally went out and got to test a 350, 250F and 450 on the same day. Granted I'm a 54 year old that is fit for a super mini but at the end of the day, I was consistently faster on the 250F. It did reinforce that i no longer need or want a 450. i'm also surprised how many of you say to get the ECU? Are you guys riding a 250f stock to it's potential? I'm a retired vet pro and I just can't see the gain for the money.
Pit Row
Honda's are challenging to setup and unstable at high speed. Have you put any thought into that?
I didn’t like the 22 crf250 i rode at all. The engine felt like the worst 250f engine I’d ridden in a long while. The handling felt good , and the brakes felt absurdly on off touchy.
wasn’t impressed one bit, it was a used bike probably 40-60 hours on it so maybe a fresh one would have been better.
i own a gg 350 and I wouldn’t trade for the 250 at all, the 350 is easier to ride every step of the way and can go faster in second gear than the crf would be going pegged in 3rd.
I’ve been considering a 450 because I prefer the lighter throttle opening style of a 450 but the crf 250 wasn’t a winner to me.
everyone’s style is different though.
I am not the original poster, but I am curious about this statement. How does the '22+ CRF250 compare with the '22-'23 MC350f in terms of stability?
yeah it seems like hes already talked himself into it lol might as well just get the bike you want to ride and have fun!
No one here is. No one here could tell the difference between motor mounts either. A lot of dreaming and bs ing themselves goin on. IMHO
Honestly I don’t think the Hondas are any more challenging than an Austrian bike to set up. And once they are set up right, can be just as stable at high speed.
You're right as far as most of us go, but ability varies massively here and some people are genuinely fast fast.
That's what can make bike advice on Vital tricky sometimes.
This may be true but in context of the reply, us vet riders mostly mod cause we can rather than because it makes any real difference that we can tell. That is outside of dialing in a suspension setup for comfort which is essential for seat time.
An ECU my someone like XPR is also going to settle the chassis.
Thanks for the thoughts and opinions. I have definitely NOT made up my mind or convinced myself one way or another otherwise I would not have posted this.
The question is genuine and is a dilemma because on the one hand I feel that with a 250F I have the potential to push it harder and get more out of the bike while continuing to improve my riding and get back into shape. Whereas with my current 350 I have that extra power available, but I do not find myself riding it high enough in the RPM range to actually use it all. That is why I feel a 250f with good bottom-end power that can be rode lower in the rpm range would be a good option. I am not a screamer. That said I also do not think I am really a 450 guy either as although I like the idea of riding around in 3rd gear, I am not sure I want that the extra weight feeling and that immediate on-tap power delivery that can easily get me into trouble. The new KX450 sounds like it could be worth some consideration but I am not in a position to spend what a brand new KX costs. I can wait a year and purchase one used for a few thousand less. Maybe get an opportunity to ride one this year. Not sure if I would regret that heavier 450 feeling.
But back to the original topic. I have read about the "harshness" of the new Honda chassis. What options exist to address that? Would split triple clamps and bar mounts with elastomers reduce that rigid feel? Do engine mounts make any difference? In terms of stability, for a guy at my skill, am I really riding fast enough for that to be a huge concern once the suspension is dialed in for me?
Just trying to make an informed decision without the ability to ride one. I know people who own every bike BUT the newer CRF250r. Go figure.
On your last question. No matter the skill level, having a suspension suited to your weight makes the world of difference. It really is the best place to spend money. Speed comes into play with dampening but a correctly sprung bike really does matter for everyone.
At 200+ lbs, you are really handicapping yourself going from a 350 to a 250. 1/2 the race is from the starting line to the first turn. Additionally, with your size, your shift points are going to need to be damn perfect to keep a 250 singing in the meat of the power band. You should be looking at a mellow, easy to ride 450 like the new KX that doesn’t demand perfection. On top of that, if you are determined to move to a 250, why would you pick the slowest modern 250 of the bunch to start with?
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