How much longer will we consider KTM to be an Austrian/European brand?

djr
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12/9/2023 4:03am
I mean I kind of get it: KTM is  49% Bajaj, so this one is a razor thin distinction. I don't consider Royal Enfield a british...

I mean I kind of get it: KTM is  49% Bajaj, so this one is a razor thin distinction.

I don't consider Royal Enfield a british brand at this point.

I am not sure , but I think I read somewhere that the 49% Bajaj share of KTM group may have been reduced/diluted after the purchases of Husqvarna + GasGas without Bajaj money, 

( I could well be wrong, and I am sure someone will point it out if I am - as understanding complicated financial deals is not my speciality )

APLMAN99
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12/9/2023 5:08am

I think many may have thought that I was denigrating KTM and/or making an inference that quality would be poorer on bikes made in China. That wasn’t the intent. I think that everyone knows that you can get almost any level of quality that you desire in Chinese products, you just need to pay for it and have a robust QA program put in place  

As was pointed out, Royal Enfield really can’t be counted as a British company. Husqvarna can’t really be counted as Swedish. Bajaj already owns 49.9% of the KTM parent company. 

The real question for me is how much longer does KTM keep any meaningful production in Austria now that they have easy access to production plants with people working for less than 5% of the wages paid ‘back home’. It’s an interesting wrinkle in international trade that just happens to be happening with motorcycles right now. 

3
12/9/2023 6:41am
studworx wrote:

Never hear people saying Toyota is an american vehicle manufacturer and they make lots of vehicles here.

The Tundra is more American than the F150. Toyota NA is an American company. Former CEO of Toyota global now lives near Dallas, and has a crazy private track on his land.

The Shop

Natester551v
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12/9/2023 8:18am
bvm111 wrote:
oh my good it’s made in asia… the horror 😱 just about everything is made in Asia/China, even components in the F35! At this point nothing...

oh my good it’s made in asia… the horror 😱

just about everything is made in Asia/China, even components in the F35! At this point nothing is 100% american made and for those of us that remember US made Oldsmobuicks made since the 70s you would know that isn’t a bad thing. 

I have friends who work in the mountain bike industry, engineering etc. From what they tell me, essentially at this point the best carbon frame manufacturing...

I have friends who work in the mountain bike industry, engineering etc. From what they tell me, essentially at this point the best carbon frame manufacturing techniques are in Taiwan, hands down. Western nations failed to build facilities to build carbon frames at scale, and we never invested in the equipment and hence don't even have the knowledge or labor. A few companies have tried local US-based carbon fiber frame manufacturing, such as Guerrilla Gravity, who just announced they were shutting down ops last month.

The Made in China=Poor Quality is a tired trope that is no longer accurate.

Taiwan vs. mainland China are not even remotely the same thing in terms of economics, quality, and tech.

4
12/9/2023 9:37am
APLMAN99 wrote:
With their recent announcement of moving more production and R&D to India and China, at what point will we consider them another ‘Asian’ motorcycle manufacturer?  The...

With their recent announcement of moving more production and R&D to India and China, at what point will we consider them another ‘Asian’ motorcycle manufacturer?  The financial justification is obvious, the average annual pay for manufacturing jobs in India is less than $4K per year…….

https://www.advrider.com/piere-mobility-cuts-euro-jobs-moves-more-ktm-h…
 

The big 4 Japanese brands build a lot of their bikes in others parts of Asia , Kawasaki and Honda have bing plants in Thailand for example 

1
1
dcg141
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12/9/2023 9:42am Edited Date/Time 12/9/2023 9:44am
bvm111 wrote:
oh my good it’s made in asia… the horror 😱 just about everything is made in Asia/China, even components in the F35! At this point nothing...

oh my good it’s made in asia… the horror 😱

just about everything is made in Asia/China, even components in the F35! At this point nothing is 100% american made and for those of us that remember US made Oldsmobuicks made since the 70s you would know that isn’t a bad thing. 

I have friends who work in the mountain bike industry, engineering etc. From what they tell me, essentially at this point the best carbon frame manufacturing...

I have friends who work in the mountain bike industry, engineering etc. From what they tell me, essentially at this point the best carbon frame manufacturing techniques are in Taiwan, hands down. Western nations failed to build facilities to build carbon frames at scale, and we never invested in the equipment and hence don't even have the knowledge or labor. A few companies have tried local US-based carbon fiber frame manufacturing, such as Guerrilla Gravity, who just announced they were shutting down ops last month.

The Made in China=Poor Quality is a tired trope that is no longer accurate.

So KTM has a joint project with Maxcom to build a carbon fiber plant in Bulgaria to make bicycles. WP is also now in mountain bike suspension. https://seenews.com/news/bulgarias-maxcom-austrias-pierer-to-jointly-invest-in-new-e-bike-plant-in-plovdiv-748453

mike44
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12/9/2023 10:48am

The only thing that is almost certain is that 2025 bikes will be more expensive than 2024 bikes...

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Timo
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12/9/2023 11:17am
bvm111 wrote:
oh my good it’s made in asia… the horror 😱 just about everything is made in Asia/China, even components in the F35! At this point nothing...

oh my good it’s made in asia… the horror 😱

just about everything is made in Asia/China, even components in the F35! At this point nothing is 100% american made and for those of us that remember US made Oldsmobuicks made since the 70s you would know that isn’t a bad thing. 

I have friends who work in the mountain bike industry, engineering etc. From what they tell me, essentially at this point the best carbon frame manufacturing...

I have friends who work in the mountain bike industry, engineering etc. From what they tell me, essentially at this point the best carbon frame manufacturing techniques are in Taiwan, hands down. Western nations failed to build facilities to build carbon frames at scale, and we never invested in the equipment and hence don't even have the knowledge or labor. A few companies have tried local US-based carbon fiber frame manufacturing, such as Guerrilla Gravity, who just announced they were shutting down ops last month.

The Made in China=Poor Quality is a tired trope that is no longer accurate.

I've seen some trick carbon fiber manufacturing at Spirit aero systems in Wichita...

1
12/9/2023 11:17am
Nairb#70 wrote:

Unfotunately, in order to purchase one you will have to take part in what is bringing our society to an end.

0 lXbLg-E3tY0lWUve

1
APLMAN99
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12/9/2023 12:28pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
With their recent announcement of moving more production and R&D to India and China, at what point will we consider them another ‘Asian’ motorcycle manufacturer?  The...

With their recent announcement of moving more production and R&D to India and China, at what point will we consider them another ‘Asian’ motorcycle manufacturer?  The financial justification is obvious, the average annual pay for manufacturing jobs in India is less than $4K per year…….

https://www.advrider.com/piere-mobility-cuts-euro-jobs-moves-more-ktm-h…
 

scott_nz wrote:
The big 4 Japanese brands build a lot of their bikes in others parts of Asia , Kawasaki and Honda have bing plants in Thailand for...

The big 4 Japanese brands build a lot of their bikes in others parts of Asia , Kawasaki and Honda have bing plants in Thailand for example 

Yeah, I think that the majority of production is still in Japan, but that may not be the case anymore either I suppose. My original question also assumed that such wide labor rate disparities and the way that KTM worded things, more and more production will be transferring to India and China will soon result in Austria being passed by the other countries in units made. 

3
rjg
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12/9/2023 1:34pm
wrc777 wrote:
Inflation in the EU has been worse than in the US since Covid. Energy cost in the EU was already higher but with the Russian sanctions...

Inflation in the EU has been worse than in the US since Covid. Energy cost in the EU was already higher but with the Russian sanctions and rush to "green" energy it is driving the cost even higher. Meanwhile India is building lots of coal plants (and China already did) and China is pushing to build a lot of nuclear plants.

That’s what I want to live next to.  A “Made in China” nuclear power plant.

China cant sucessfully operate a nuclear plant for any long duration. They have multiple different styles of fission reactors and do not have the intuition/innovation to keep them successfully running. Its a societal problem there that most of their citizens have very little creative/innovative thinking and mostly just copy without understanding. They continuously invite strong individuals from the european/north american nuclear industry to assist them but because of the type of education/copying they cant think foreward enought to be successful.

From someone in the nuclear fission industry. 

3
mike44
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12/10/2023 1:35am
wrc777 wrote:
Inflation in the EU has been worse than in the US since Covid. Energy cost in the EU was already higher but with the Russian sanctions...

Inflation in the EU has been worse than in the US since Covid. Energy cost in the EU was already higher but with the Russian sanctions and rush to "green" energy it is driving the cost even higher. Meanwhile India is building lots of coal plants (and China already did) and China is pushing to build a lot of nuclear plants.

That’s what I want to live next to.  A “Made in China” nuclear power plant.

rjg wrote:
China cant sucessfully operate a nuclear plant for any long duration. They have multiple different styles of fission reactors and do not have the intuition/innovation to...

China cant sucessfully operate a nuclear plant for any long duration. They have multiple different styles of fission reactors and do not have the intuition/innovation to keep them successfully running. Its a societal problem there that most of their citizens have very little creative/innovative thinking and mostly just copy without understanding. They continuously invite strong individuals from the european/north american nuclear industry to assist them but because of the type of education/copying they cant think foreward enought to be successful.

From someone in the nuclear fission industry. 

yes for sure, they've just started commercial operation of the first fourth generation fission nuclear power plant  but the are just only retarded monkey.....Laughing

I think the topic is more  that an european brand is going like others in asia to lower production cost and maximize profit; and not about the quality of the final product.

European are brainless, they don't have any natural ressource, and sent all their industries outside europe....it will be the new 1/3 world in not so much time.

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