First off the Boat

kxking
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kxking 10/19/2023 4:32am
10/19/2023 4:32am
CPan wrote:

HRC will never let Jett go. 

ando wrote:
Here’s the thing - winning all the time is great for brand exposure but really expensive for the team in win and championship bonuses.  It’s a...

Here’s the thing - winning all the time is great for brand exposure but really expensive for the team in win and championship bonuses.  It’s a fairly realistic possibility that Jet wins both SX and MX titles for the next few years.

If that happens there’ll be a point Honda will decide, quite rightfully, that the payouts are out of proportion to the value generated.

Don't these teams take out insurance policies for win/championship bonuses?

I thought I read that somewhere.

DoctorJD
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DoctorJD 10/19/2023 5:02am
10/19/2023 5:02am
CPan wrote:

HRC will never let Jett go. 

LungButter wrote:

You're talking about the Team that let McGrath and Carmichael walk away.  Never is a long time.

They had a kid named Tomac there at one time, too. 

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CPan
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CPan 10/19/2023 5:18am
10/19/2023 5:18am
CPan wrote:

HRC will never let Jett go. 

ando wrote:
Here’s the thing - winning all the time is great for brand exposure but really expensive for the team in win and championship bonuses.  It’s a...

Here’s the thing - winning all the time is great for brand exposure but really expensive for the team in win and championship bonuses.  It’s a fairly realistic possibility that Jet wins both SX and MX titles for the next few years.

If that happens there’ll be a point Honda will decide, quite rightfully, that the payouts are out of proportion to the value generated.

kxking wrote:

Don't these teams take out insurance policies for win/championship bonuses?

I thought I read that somewhere.

Sometimes they do. But as a rider gets more likely to win, the insurance policy gets more expensive. Given Jett’s chances of winning I’m not sure anyone would even underwrite that policy. 

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quadzrulebro 10/19/2023 6:13am
10/19/2023 6:13am Edited Date/Time 10/19/2023 6:20am
CPan wrote:

HRC will never let Jett go. 

ando wrote:
Here’s the thing - winning all the time is great for brand exposure but really expensive for the team in win and championship bonuses.  It’s a...

Here’s the thing - winning all the time is great for brand exposure but really expensive for the team in win and championship bonuses.  It’s a fairly realistic possibility that Jet wins both SX and MX titles for the next few years.

If that happens there’ll be a point Honda will decide, quite rightfully, that the payouts are out of proportion to the value generated.

According to MIC data, Honda sold fewer CRF450s in the US on a rolling 12 basis this year than last.  Over that same time frame, 450 motocross industry sales grew by double digit percentage.  If Honda is selling fewer MX bikes here in the US, it really doesn’t make sense to continue to pump more and more money into rider salaries and bonuses.  Both Kawasaki and KTM sold more 450 MX bikes in the past 12 months in the US than Honda did, and both of them paid out a tiny fraction of the bonuses Honda did.  Both KTM and Kawasaki offered big rebates this year, as well.  Professional racing is all about ROI.  A manufacturer needs to decide whether the ROI on rebates and incentives is more valuable than the ROI on championship and race win bonuses, I suppose.

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Last2Stroke 10/19/2023 6:23am
10/19/2023 6:23am
CPan wrote:

HRC will never let Jett go. 

ando wrote:
Here’s the thing - winning all the time is great for brand exposure but really expensive for the team in win and championship bonuses.  It’s a...

Here’s the thing - winning all the time is great for brand exposure but really expensive for the team in win and championship bonuses.  It’s a fairly realistic possibility that Jet wins both SX and MX titles for the next few years.

If that happens there’ll be a point Honda will decide, quite rightfully, that the payouts are out of proportion to the value generated.

quadzrulebro wrote:
According to MIC data, Honda sold fewer CRF450s in the US on a rolling 12 basis this year than last.  Over that same time frame, 450...

According to MIC data, Honda sold fewer CRF450s in the US on a rolling 12 basis this year than last.  Over that same time frame, 450 motocross industry sales grew by double digit percentage.  If Honda is selling fewer MX bikes here in the US, it really doesn’t make sense to continue to pump more and more money into rider salaries and bonuses.  Both Kawasaki and KTM sold more 450 MX bikes in the past 12 months in the US than Honda did, and both of them paid out a tiny fraction of the bonuses Honda did.  Both KTM and Kawasaki offered big rebates this year, as well.  Professional racing is all about ROI.  A manufacturer needs to decide whether the ROI on rebates and incentives is more valuable than the ROI on championship and race win bonuses, I suppose.

Professional racing is all about brand exposure.

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Motofinne
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Motofinne 10/19/2023 6:25am
10/19/2023 6:25am

If Jett keeps dominating, i could see KTM getting tired of it and signing him for whatever sum it takes.

UpTiTe 10/19/2023 6:29am
10/19/2023 6:29am
CPan wrote:

HRC will never let Jett go. 

ando wrote:
Here’s the thing - winning all the time is great for brand exposure but really expensive for the team in win and championship bonuses.  It’s a...

Here’s the thing - winning all the time is great for brand exposure but really expensive for the team in win and championship bonuses.  It’s a fairly realistic possibility that Jet wins both SX and MX titles for the next few years.

If that happens there’ll be a point Honda will decide, quite rightfully, that the payouts are out of proportion to the value generated.

quadzrulebro wrote:
According to MIC data, Honda sold fewer CRF450s in the US on a rolling 12 basis this year than last.  Over that same time frame, 450...

According to MIC data, Honda sold fewer CRF450s in the US on a rolling 12 basis this year than last.  Over that same time frame, 450 motocross industry sales grew by double digit percentage.  If Honda is selling fewer MX bikes here in the US, it really doesn’t make sense to continue to pump more and more money into rider salaries and bonuses.  Both Kawasaki and KTM sold more 450 MX bikes in the past 12 months in the US than Honda did, and both of them paid out a tiny fraction of the bonuses Honda did.  Both KTM and Kawasaki offered big rebates this year, as well.  Professional racing is all about ROI.  A manufacturer needs to decide whether the ROI on rebates and incentives is more valuable than the ROI on championship and race win bonuses, I suppose.

A factory team’s budget isn’t dictated by the number of bikes sold. The budget comes from the advertising budget, and that’s based on the overall sales of the company. 

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quadzrulebro 10/19/2023 6:31am
10/19/2023 6:31am
ando wrote:
Here’s the thing - winning all the time is great for brand exposure but really expensive for the team in win and championship bonuses.  It’s a...

Here’s the thing - winning all the time is great for brand exposure but really expensive for the team in win and championship bonuses.  It’s a fairly realistic possibility that Jet wins both SX and MX titles for the next few years.

If that happens there’ll be a point Honda will decide, quite rightfully, that the payouts are out of proportion to the value generated.

quadzrulebro wrote:
According to MIC data, Honda sold fewer CRF450s in the US on a rolling 12 basis this year than last.  Over that same time frame, 450...

According to MIC data, Honda sold fewer CRF450s in the US on a rolling 12 basis this year than last.  Over that same time frame, 450 motocross industry sales grew by double digit percentage.  If Honda is selling fewer MX bikes here in the US, it really doesn’t make sense to continue to pump more and more money into rider salaries and bonuses.  Both Kawasaki and KTM sold more 450 MX bikes in the past 12 months in the US than Honda did, and both of them paid out a tiny fraction of the bonuses Honda did.  Both KTM and Kawasaki offered big rebates this year, as well.  Professional racing is all about ROI.  A manufacturer needs to decide whether the ROI on rebates and incentives is more valuable than the ROI on championship and race win bonuses, I suppose.

Last2Stroke wrote:

Professional racing is all about brand exposure.

A strategy which, in theory, should result in sales that exceed rather than pale in comparison to the industry average.

kxking
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kxking 10/19/2023 6:34am
10/19/2023 6:34am
CPan wrote:

HRC will never let Jett go. 

ando wrote:
Here’s the thing - winning all the time is great for brand exposure but really expensive for the team in win and championship bonuses.  It’s a...

Here’s the thing - winning all the time is great for brand exposure but really expensive for the team in win and championship bonuses.  It’s a fairly realistic possibility that Jet wins both SX and MX titles for the next few years.

If that happens there’ll be a point Honda will decide, quite rightfully, that the payouts are out of proportion to the value generated.

quadzrulebro wrote:
According to MIC data, Honda sold fewer CRF450s in the US on a rolling 12 basis this year than last.  Over that same time frame, 450...

According to MIC data, Honda sold fewer CRF450s in the US on a rolling 12 basis this year than last.  Over that same time frame, 450 motocross industry sales grew by double digit percentage.  If Honda is selling fewer MX bikes here in the US, it really doesn’t make sense to continue to pump more and more money into rider salaries and bonuses.  Both Kawasaki and KTM sold more 450 MX bikes in the past 12 months in the US than Honda did, and both of them paid out a tiny fraction of the bonuses Honda did.  Both KTM and Kawasaki offered big rebates this year, as well.  Professional racing is all about ROI.  A manufacturer needs to decide whether the ROI on rebates and incentives is more valuable than the ROI on championship and race win bonuses, I suppose.

All good points, but if you look at the data, Chase just clinched the SX title end of May, and Jett just got on the 450 in June, so a rolling 12 months from that point would be more accurate statistic of "Does winning on Sunday sell on Monday?"

How does the 250 data compare?

1
quadzrulebro 10/19/2023 6:41am
10/19/2023 6:41am Edited Date/Time 10/19/2023 6:49am
ando wrote:
Here’s the thing - winning all the time is great for brand exposure but really expensive for the team in win and championship bonuses.  It’s a...

Here’s the thing - winning all the time is great for brand exposure but really expensive for the team in win and championship bonuses.  It’s a fairly realistic possibility that Jet wins both SX and MX titles for the next few years.

If that happens there’ll be a point Honda will decide, quite rightfully, that the payouts are out of proportion to the value generated.

quadzrulebro wrote:
According to MIC data, Honda sold fewer CRF450s in the US on a rolling 12 basis this year than last.  Over that same time frame, 450...

According to MIC data, Honda sold fewer CRF450s in the US on a rolling 12 basis this year than last.  Over that same time frame, 450 motocross industry sales grew by double digit percentage.  If Honda is selling fewer MX bikes here in the US, it really doesn’t make sense to continue to pump more and more money into rider salaries and bonuses.  Both Kawasaki and KTM sold more 450 MX bikes in the past 12 months in the US than Honda did, and both of them paid out a tiny fraction of the bonuses Honda did.  Both KTM and Kawasaki offered big rebates this year, as well.  Professional racing is all about ROI.  A manufacturer needs to decide whether the ROI on rebates and incentives is more valuable than the ROI on championship and race win bonuses, I suppose.

kxking wrote:
All good points, but if you look at the data, Chase just clinched the SX title end of May, and Jett just got on the 450...

All good points, but if you look at the data, Chase just clinched the SX title end of May, and Jett just got on the 450 in June, so a rolling 12 months from that point would be more accurate statistic of "Does winning on Sunday sell on Monday?"

How does the 250 data compare?

That is a good point, but the variance between Honda and the two leading 450 brands actually grew over the past six months, likely as a results of aggressive rebates.  I didn’t get a chance to see 250 numbers.

You’re right, though.  The next 12 months will be a more appropriate time period to test the “win on Sunday, sell on Monday” theory.

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Shred
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Shred 10/19/2023 9:50am
10/19/2023 9:50am Edited Date/Time 10/19/2023 9:58am
quadzrulebro wrote:
According to MIC data, Honda sold fewer CRF450s in the US on a rolling 12 basis this year than last.  Over that same time frame, 450...

According to MIC data, Honda sold fewer CRF450s in the US on a rolling 12 basis this year than last.  Over that same time frame, 450 motocross industry sales grew by double digit percentage.  If Honda is selling fewer MX bikes here in the US, it really doesn’t make sense to continue to pump more and more money into rider salaries and bonuses.  Both Kawasaki and KTM sold more 450 MX bikes in the past 12 months in the US than Honda did, and both of them paid out a tiny fraction of the bonuses Honda did.  Both KTM and Kawasaki offered big rebates this year, as well.  Professional racing is all about ROI.  A manufacturer needs to decide whether the ROI on rebates and incentives is more valuable than the ROI on championship and race win bonuses, I suppose.

kxking wrote:
All good points, but if you look at the data, Chase just clinched the SX title end of May, and Jett just got on the 450...

All good points, but if you look at the data, Chase just clinched the SX title end of May, and Jett just got on the 450 in June, so a rolling 12 months from that point would be more accurate statistic of "Does winning on Sunday sell on Monday?"

How does the 250 data compare?

quadzrulebro wrote:
That is a good point, but the variance between Honda and the two leading 450 brands actually grew over the past six months, likely as a...

That is a good point, but the variance between Honda and the two leading 450 brands actually grew over the past six months, likely as a results of aggressive rebates.  I didn’t get a chance to see 250 numbers.

You’re right, though.  The next 12 months will be a more appropriate time period to test the “win on Sunday, sell on Monday” theory.

No doubt when you can literally walk out the door with a KX 450 for $6000 otd (crazy) and you can do the same for a KTM around $8000 then that will sell bikes.  I also think in the day of social media and multiple bike reviews and shootouts….. that Honda’s off the shelf bike quality has so little relevance to Jett winning on a Honda that the correlation of winning races to selling bikes is less then ever.  HRC Honda has given Jett possibly the best bike in the track!  Honda has not done the same for stock bikes…. Not even close.  I hoped on a friends crf last week.  Did one lap and brought it back and said “nope”.  Got on my still not completely broken in Husky that felt so much better and did more laps with a smile on my face.  (and no we didn’t attempt to adjust anything…it just felt so much less rideable I wouldn’t have even tried) I know some red riders will come to Honda’s defense…and everybody feels something different on different bikes….but most think the Honda is just plain not as good for them.

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dsc131
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dsc131 10/19/2023 10:36am
10/19/2023 10:36am
quadzrulebro wrote:
According to MIC data, Honda sold fewer CRF450s in the US on a rolling 12 basis this year than last.  Over that same time frame, 450...

According to MIC data, Honda sold fewer CRF450s in the US on a rolling 12 basis this year than last.  Over that same time frame, 450 motocross industry sales grew by double digit percentage.  If Honda is selling fewer MX bikes here in the US, it really doesn’t make sense to continue to pump more and more money into rider salaries and bonuses.  Both Kawasaki and KTM sold more 450 MX bikes in the past 12 months in the US than Honda did, and both of them paid out a tiny fraction of the bonuses Honda did.  Both KTM and Kawasaki offered big rebates this year, as well.  Professional racing is all about ROI.  A manufacturer needs to decide whether the ROI on rebates and incentives is more valuable than the ROI on championship and race win bonuses, I suppose.

kxking wrote:
All good points, but if you look at the data, Chase just clinched the SX title end of May, and Jett just got on the 450...

All good points, but if you look at the data, Chase just clinched the SX title end of May, and Jett just got on the 450 in June, so a rolling 12 months from that point would be more accurate statistic of "Does winning on Sunday sell on Monday?"

How does the 250 data compare?

quadzrulebro wrote:
That is a good point, but the variance between Honda and the two leading 450 brands actually grew over the past six months, likely as a...

That is a good point, but the variance between Honda and the two leading 450 brands actually grew over the past six months, likely as a results of aggressive rebates.  I didn’t get a chance to see 250 numbers.

You’re right, though.  The next 12 months will be a more appropriate time period to test the “win on Sunday, sell on Monday” theory.

As someone else said, it's "brand" exposure.

Not about 450's or even 250's. I'd guess there are little kids on CRF-50's tooling around in the backyard because of what happens on Saturdays with their hero (or Dad's hero).  

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DunnySeat
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DunnySeat 10/19/2023 10:55am
10/19/2023 10:55am
DoctorJD wrote:

They had a kid named Tomac there at one time, too. 

Tomac wanted the 17' Honda for 2016. To be fair, they traded for Kenny. Things would have likely been a lot different if he didn't have his crash.

bluesmoke
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bluesmoke 10/19/2023 10:58am
10/19/2023 10:58am
CPan wrote:

HRC will never let Jett go. 

LungButter wrote:

You're talking about the Team that let McGrath and Carmichael walk away.  Never is a long time.

Maybe Jett will want to prove he can win on any brand. Even a kicker! 

mark_swart
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mark_swart 10/19/2023 11:04am
10/19/2023 11:04am
GrapeApe wrote:

Plot twist, Jett and Hunter both leave for their own private team with factory equipment and a huge title sponsor.

mattyhamz2 wrote:

If they stay as a “package deal” I don’t see that being all that crazy

After all, Jett is the "Justin Beiber" of motocross (per ESPN)!

All kidding aside I think it's a viable concept- maybe those two somehow do have the appeal to attract a legit high profile outside sponsor. 

1
Last2Stroke 10/19/2023 2:38pm
10/19/2023 2:38pm Edited Date/Time 10/19/2023 4:51pm
quadzrulebro wrote:
According to MIC data, Honda sold fewer CRF450s in the US on a rolling 12 basis this year than last.  Over that same time frame, 450...

According to MIC data, Honda sold fewer CRF450s in the US on a rolling 12 basis this year than last.  Over that same time frame, 450 motocross industry sales grew by double digit percentage.  If Honda is selling fewer MX bikes here in the US, it really doesn’t make sense to continue to pump more and more money into rider salaries and bonuses.  Both Kawasaki and KTM sold more 450 MX bikes in the past 12 months in the US than Honda did, and both of them paid out a tiny fraction of the bonuses Honda did.  Both KTM and Kawasaki offered big rebates this year, as well.  Professional racing is all about ROI.  A manufacturer needs to decide whether the ROI on rebates and incentives is more valuable than the ROI on championship and race win bonuses, I suppose.

Last2Stroke wrote:

Professional racing is all about brand exposure.

quadzrulebro wrote:

A strategy which, in theory, should result in sales that exceed rather than pale in comparison to the industry average.

The Honda's brand is not limited to the CRF450, brand exposure has an impact on sales of other products...

image-20231020083743-1

 

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Beagle
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Beagle 10/19/2023 2:59pm
10/19/2023 2:59pm
Last2Stroke wrote:

Professional racing is all about brand exposure.

quadzrulebro wrote:

A strategy which, in theory, should result in sales that exceed rather than pale in comparison to the industry average.

Last2Stroke wrote:
The Honda's brand is not limited to the CRF450, brand exposure has an impact on sales of other products...    

The Honda's brand is not limited to the CRF450, brand exposure has an impact on sales of other products...

image-20231020083743-1

 

Hell yeah, the famous "Win on Sunday, sell lawnmowers on Monday" Silly

On a more serious note, Quadz could you please point me to your source for 450s US sales?

2
Last2Stroke 10/19/2023 4:29pm
10/19/2023 4:29pm
quadzrulebro wrote:

A strategy which, in theory, should result in sales that exceed rather than pale in comparison to the industry average.

Last2Stroke wrote:
The Honda's brand is not limited to the CRF450, brand exposure has an impact on sales of other products...    

The Honda's brand is not limited to the CRF450, brand exposure has an impact on sales of other products...

image-20231020083743-1

 

Beagle wrote:
Hell yeah, the famous "Win on Sunday, sell lawnmowers on Monday"  On a more serious note, Quadz could you please point me to your source for...

Hell yeah, the famous "Win on Sunday, sell lawnmowers on Monday" Silly

On a more serious note, Quadz could you please point me to your source for 450s US sales?

Win on Sunday, cut the lawn on Monday...

image-20231020102926-1

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