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the stark handling being raved about may be more to do with zero crankshaft gyro effect than frame design. if so, the honda may handle just as well or better. and ya'll are making assumptions that honda is going to re-purpose an ICE frame without knowing squat about their plans.
remember the raving that went on for years about Maico handling. it was more about their primary chain drive canceling out the gyro effect than any frame design.
Did you not see in this thread where the frame is not the same as the ICE frame. Hell, it is not even the same as the previous CR-E frame.
I worked for the Honda race team in the early 2000's. Attention to detail is NOT something that Honda lacks. Hell, the antenna mount on the team transporter was milled out of billet aluminum when it could have easily been a store bought bracket.
It’s okay that you love your gas operated stuff and car and it’s okay that you don’t want anything to do with EVs.
But to tell me that the production and distribution of oil and gas is less troublesome and less attackable than the 80 feet of cable from my solar roof to the inverter and to my car is just ridiculous.
It’s telling that your first response is to throw out wild allegations rather than address anything that I’ve said.
For the record, I work in this space. Based upon what you’ve said, I have to assume that you are purposely being obtuse or willfully ignorant. You grossly overstate the simplicity of charging your vehicle from a home solar array.
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Okay, fair enough! Would you please explain to me which part of the system wouldn’t work in case of an emergency (I‘m honestly interested):
What wouldn’t work if I’d bypass my wallbox and plug my Tesla mobile connector directly into my Wegood hybrid inverter with off-grid capabilities?
Sorry for derailing the thread. Here my points on the Honda:
- Cool that there’s some movement in the project and we will see it ride
- Looking at the battery size, power and capacity aren’t up there with the Varg
- In one of Anton Wass interviews he talks about the bike and they suspect it to be around 40HP (if I remember correctly).
I'm also curious and don't know much about these industries so I'm probably overly simplifying, please enlighten me.
Not that I have seen anyone claiming that freedom or whatever is one of the reasons they're interested in electric bikes.
It seems to me that first you need the infrastructure.
For fuel that is exploration, drilling, extraction, distribution to refinery, refining, distribution via pipelines, railways, ships to terminals for formulation, then distribution (mostly pipelines and trucks) to gas station. Quite often distribution will include one step via tanker halfway around the world (the US are the top producer yet still import 8 million barrels per day from 80 countries, which is about a third of their consumption, other countries import the vast majority of their fuel).
Setting up this infrastructure takes years, then once it's all running smoothly it takes on average 4 weeks for fuel to get extracted then go through all these steps and reach your local gas station.
For solar the infrastructure is solar panels, inverter and? I guess grid connection if you want to sell the energy you are producing locally? But you need grid connection to your house anyway so it's not like it's a requirement specific to solar.
Alright so once the infrastructure is in place, how many people and companies does it take for you to actually get the energy?
Fuel: you still need a ton of workers and companies for all these steps (drilling, refining, formulation, distribution), and of course in the end you need to buy it which is quite the dependency.
Solar: you need sun to produce your own energy then what else?
Numbers don't say everything, these are exactly the same comments as were on Tesla.
Tesla is now number one in EVs, miles ahead of the rest of the industry who completely missed the EV boat.
There is also such a thing as patents and if you don't have that right, you can be as big as you want, but then you won't make it. There are still Japanese manufacturers who do not see anything in EVs. The ban on the sales of ICE is coming and it will come sooner than most realize. And the moment the sales numbers of EVs exceed the ICE, it's done with the ICE if you like it or not.
In many cities in Europe there is already a ban on 2T and older diesels. And from 2025/26, diesel vans and small trucks will not be allowed into the city centers.
Seems you went to great detail on fossil fuel, and skipped over simialr details for solar.
Panels need to be manufactured, so raw materials, assembly, distrubution installation, battery disposal, etc...at least try to be objective, are there charging stations accessible almost everywhere. Fossil fuel isnt any better or worse, its just a more established and mature energy source.
Im looking fwd to electric bikes,should be easier to ride
Panels typically have a 25 year life, they only need to be purchased once every 25 years, fossil fuels need to be continuously purchased.
In Australia rooftop solar payback is 3-4 years, 31% of Australian homes have rooftop solar, 3% more are added every year, some people install them to save the planet, most people install them to save money.
This is getting silly.. what about the poor sun burning all the hydrogen to power the solar roofs everywhere? Anybody ever thought of that?
Let‘s get back to topic!
Are there any technical details for the Honda? Maybe from a patent?
Yeah there are patents but it's been a long time in development so I'll wait for Honda to finally say something about the bike.
So far nothing except it's going to compete, hopefully it implies that at some point they want to be a but more public about this project, maybe even provide some specs or a timeline for their plans to commercialize an electric dirt bike (which may or may not be close to this prototype).
No new patents in Japan or the US, from Honda or Mugen (M-Tec) since their original 4 patents from 2018.
One interesting thing from the original patents, the front down tube is used as a reservoir for the coolant system...
It looks like the new prototype does the same...
Nice! Just like the oil tank on my 2001 WR250f.
Will be interesting to see if the air cooling of the battery of the Varg will be sufficient or if everybody moves to water cooling eventually.
I hope air cooling is good enough. Would save complexity because cooling the motor and the battery with one system is not possible in most cases.
The Honda patents don't mention water cooling the battery, they specify cooling the motor with water jacket #90...
That doesn't mean they aren't water cooling the battery, but they haven't patented it.
That makes more sense now, when I first saw the picture it looked like they had cut the front rail out like in a 500 conversion then just tacked it back in.
Sorry to burst your EV hopeful future. But there's a zero percent chance any of that is happening. The whole world runs on oil. No one will buy EV's. They are a terrible idea and have way too many problems for the falsely advertised "saving the planet" idea. They use up more fossil fuel resources and are worse for the environment than the current world output of burning fossil fuels.
Nice researching. Good finds on the patents. Looks like maybe they're using pouch cells rather than cylindrical. Cooling properties might be favorable with pouch. It'll be really interesting to see what innovations they're bringing to the game. I'm sure it's numerous.
Also, I really hope Stark Future enters a bike in Saitama too. That would get some attention.
"[EV] use up more fossil fuel resources and are worse for the environment"
LMFAO, thank you for that, that was a good laugh, I guess that's a tie with the guy this week who doubted fossil fuels came from fossils, you're a good bunch, keep it up.
And of course this has nothing to do with why anybody who tried the Varg liked it so much. Maybe it's not propaganda and it really is a great bike to ride?
Man I would have loved reading message boards from when cars replaced horse carriages but that will do.
Pit Row
What was best selling car in the world again?
https://www.focus2move.com/world-car-market/
The battery has to be water cooled because it’s definitely not looking like an air cooled setup. Maybe they run the motor and battery on one system, but that would be a compromise.
Couldn't you run 1 pump and radiator system with different thermostat or solenoid control for the motor, battery and controller? Might need an overflow rez.
'No one will buy EV's.
Are all those EVs that are on the road now imaginary? You clearly have no clue. Or are severely trolling.
Yeah probably! You‘d have to make sure that the battery gets the water as cool as possible directly from the radiator and the send it from the battery pack to the motor.
The problem is that the battery likes low temps and that requires a large radiator because the temperature difference is low.
The Tesla system is very cool, because it has different modes where it can link or separate the two circuits with another, with its heat pump and with a radiator. They can cool/heat all components to condition the inside, keep the battery at stable temps and cool the motors. Here’s a great and short video of the system:
I know it has nothing to do with eMXs since they have no heat pump, but it shows the complexity if you want to cool two circuits with different temp requirements.
This is getting completely off topic, but one last response.
So from your link. Because Tesla sells 1 popular model, that's EV's winning? It only proves people will buy anything new. More than half will be traded back in less than 2 years. But the real funny part is your link proves my point instead.
Tesla's EV's are #1 &10 in SALES at 758,645 units sold and 364,195 units sold = 1,122,840 units.
2-9 in the list which are all fuel burning engines + GMC pickups of 241,521 '22 added to the GM Pickup total = 4,153,332 units.
Its a 3.7:1 ratio of ice vehicles to EV's sold based on your link info for top 10 most sold vehicles.
None of that includes construction or farm vehicle sales which are 99.9% Diesel. So keep trying to convince the world EV will take over when they contribute to 12.1% of worldwide vehicle sales. 87.9% is still combustion.
Worldwide its 7.26:1 fuel burning ratio.
"No one will buy EV's" - nrosso391
"Tesla EV's are #1 and 10 in SALES . . . 1,122,840 units" - also nrosso391, 3 posts later
Never change
And it’s changing quickly..
Is it really so surprising that people buy EVs now that prices inch closer to those of ICE cars and that the charging infrastructure is good enough? They must all be pretty stupid to buy something that is much nicer to drive, much more reliable, needs less maintenance and can be fueled at home compared to their old car.
Charging infrastructure in the US still sucks and its going to to take 50 years to improve it to where it needs to be. Add to that alot of the more urban people whose lifestyle is most suited to take advantage of the benefits of EVs generally don't have garages in which to install their own charger.
All this to say some people's needs cater to ev cars some don't, same with dirtbikes, both sides need to just chill and let the other side do their thing.
You take words to literally. I meant the majority of people will not buy EV's. The idiots in GOV will try to ban them with legislation and will backfire.
Agreed. The infrastructure is the biggest issue other than how expensive everything will get. Another big reason people are buying EV's is rebates/subsidies paid by US gov for purchasing one, which in turn you pay more than a gas vehicle over time anyways.
It's backfiring big time for them (whoever them might be, US, China, Europe left, right, center...), see, EV market share barely tripled in the past 3 years.
EV current market share:
Europe 20%
China 30%
some European countries are way ahead:
Germany 31%
Netherlands 35%
Finland 38%
Danemark 39%
Sweden 54%
Iceland 70%
Norway 88%
Unfortunately every thread about electric bikes get derailed by trolls, could we please talk about bikes now?
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