Stark Orders and Payments

davis224
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9/23/2023 3:29pm Edited Date/Time 9/23/2023 6:19pm

Pastrana got his and posted a video of BSing with his friends after riding it, said he almost did both a front and back flip on the same jump messing with the engine braking, and it's the best turning bike he's ever ridden.

4
9/24/2023 4:55am
Stark's communication has been poor about production delays, VIN numbers will give some idea how many Vargs have been manufactured. Current reported VIN numbers are all...

Stark's communication has been poor about production delays, VIN numbers will give some idea how many Vargs have been manufactured.

Current reported VIN numbers are all below 800, Stark is claiming 18,000 pre-orders, 17,200 more bikes need to be manufactured to meet current demand!

Beagle wrote:
Current estimate under one year for new orders means they are confident they can ship all existing pre-orders in less than a year. (Waiting for the...

Current estimate under one year for new orders means they are confident they can ship all existing pre-orders in less than a year.

(Waiting for the Global Turtleneck Conspiracy crowd to explain how it's bad news, got my bingo card ready)

Right now they're easily on path to overcoming total Alta production (less than 1000 bikes in about 3 years) in less than a year.

IF Stark succeeds in delivering 10 000 bikes a year that would be insane, a production rate much faster than any current 450 MX. And ramping up production like never seen before for a new motorcycle brand.

Obviously it's not set in stone, and they're clearly lacking in communication, I mean if they gifted you the bike in case they don't respect the initial estimated date I'll probably order a couple of them right now.

One way to check production rate is to track VIN numbers for verified deliveries. By the way, VIN numbers for US/Australia bikes are probably lagging behind VIN numbers for Europe bikes.

One of Stark's video showed 3 second battery cell placement time, that's 48 per 8 hours, if that is the bottleneck, 10,000-12,000 per year is doable...

One of Stark's video showed 3 second battery cell placement time, that's 48 per 8 hours, if that is the bottleneck, 10,000-12,000 per year is doable on one shift.

The volume of each model sold annually use to be disclosed in Australia, manufacturers stopped disclosing volumes 5 years ago. If volumes reported 5 years ago are similar to current volumes and Australia's proportion of global sales is the same, global sales of full sized motocross bikes would be 40,000-50,000. Stark's 18,000 pre-sales is a significant market share, but only if they are shipped.

 

That’s not a realistic build time for the packs, the robotic testing and placement is the fastest part of the process, I know as I have seen it with my own eyes. They are going to be increasing production significantly but only with the new production lines that are being installed.

2
9/24/2023 5:05am Edited Date/Time 9/24/2023 5:05am
Beagle wrote:
Please spare a thought for the trolls, they have been going through hard times lately. I mean, the Varg picked up 4 podiums this weekend in...

Please spare a thought for the trolls, they have been going through hard times lately.

I mean, the Varg picked up 4 podiums this weekend in Arenacross UK with Thomas Do, now Stark is shipping 500 bikes per month, tough times indeed.

Soon the only claim they will have left will be "but they cannot complete 30 min+2 laps in AMA". That should keep them going for at least a couple of years, so everyone is happy I guess?

Yep Stark are getting there, I was with Thomas at the Stark Factory and Golf MX really nice lad and a great rider. He was so excited about riding the Varg 😁👍

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1
9/24/2023 5:45am
Beagle wrote:
Current estimate under one year for new orders means they are confident they can ship all existing pre-orders in less than a year. (Waiting for the...

Current estimate under one year for new orders means they are confident they can ship all existing pre-orders in less than a year.

(Waiting for the Global Turtleneck Conspiracy crowd to explain how it's bad news, got my bingo card ready)

Right now they're easily on path to overcoming total Alta production (less than 1000 bikes in about 3 years) in less than a year.

IF Stark succeeds in delivering 10 000 bikes a year that would be insane, a production rate much faster than any current 450 MX. And ramping up production like never seen before for a new motorcycle brand.

Obviously it's not set in stone, and they're clearly lacking in communication, I mean if they gifted you the bike in case they don't respect the initial estimated date I'll probably order a couple of them right now.

One way to check production rate is to track VIN numbers for verified deliveries. By the way, VIN numbers for US/Australia bikes are probably lagging behind VIN numbers for Europe bikes.

One of Stark's video showed 3 second battery cell placement time, that's 48 per 8 hours, if that is the bottleneck, 10,000-12,000 per year is doable...

One of Stark's video showed 3 second battery cell placement time, that's 48 per 8 hours, if that is the bottleneck, 10,000-12,000 per year is doable on one shift.

The volume of each model sold annually use to be disclosed in Australia, manufacturers stopped disclosing volumes 5 years ago. If volumes reported 5 years ago are similar to current volumes and Australia's proportion of global sales is the same, global sales of full sized motocross bikes would be 40,000-50,000. Stark's 18,000 pre-sales is a significant market share, but only if they are shipped.

 

That’s not a realistic build time for the packs, the robotic testing and placement is the fastest part of the process, I know as I have...

That’s not a realistic build time for the packs, the robotic testing and placement is the fastest part of the process, I know as I have seen it with my own eyes. They are going to be increasing production significantly but only with the new production lines that are being installed.

Do you know what their current bottle neck is?

The Shop

MxAddic
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9/25/2023 5:10am

After seeing some asswad wheelie through the pits WFO doing 60MPH on Saturday night (first one I have seen) @ the Zoar Reunion I don't think it say's positive things about their customers. Can't say I am looking forward to seeing more of this type of thing in the future.

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LungButter
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9/25/2023 5:22am
MxAddic wrote:
After seeing some asswad wheelie through the pits WFO doing 60MPH on Saturday night (first one I have seen) @ the Zoar Reunion I don't think...

After seeing some asswad wheelie through the pits WFO doing 60MPH on Saturday night (first one I have seen) @ the Zoar Reunion I don't think it say's positive things about their customers. Can't say I am looking forward to seeing more of this type of thing in the future.

Broski….this is a lame argument. You can do better. 

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stremme12
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9/25/2023 5:35am Edited Date/Time 9/25/2023 5:35am
MxAddic wrote:
After seeing some asswad wheelie through the pits WFO doing 60MPH on Saturday night (first one I have seen) @ the Zoar Reunion I don't think...

After seeing some asswad wheelie through the pits WFO doing 60MPH on Saturday night (first one I have seen) @ the Zoar Reunion I don't think it say's positive things about their customers. Can't say I am looking forward to seeing more of this type of thing in the future.

Lady with pork chops in her cart the other day ran right into me. I'M SO TRIGGERED I WILL NO LONGER EAT PORK!!!!! 

16
2
MxAddic
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9/25/2023 5:50am
LungButter wrote:

Broski….this is a lame argument. You can do better. 

You bet I can...

2
MxAddic
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9/25/2023 5:52am Edited Date/Time 9/25/2023 5:54am
stremme12 wrote:

Lady with pork chops in her cart the other day ran right into me. I'M SO TRIGGERED I WILL NO LONGER EAT PORK!!!!! 

When is the last time a little kid got hit and killed by a lady with a cart full of pork chops brainiac.

Glad you think it's so funny. Sounds like your the perfect candidate to be a stark owner.

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davis224
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9/25/2023 5:53am
MxAddic wrote:
After seeing some asswad wheelie through the pits WFO doing 60MPH on Saturday night (first one I have seen) @ the Zoar Reunion I don't think...

After seeing some asswad wheelie through the pits WFO doing 60MPH on Saturday night (first one I have seen) @ the Zoar Reunion I don't think it say's positive things about their customers. Can't say I am looking forward to seeing more of this type of thing in the future.

I saw a kid on an 06 Honda ripping 4th gear in between trucks in the pits yesterday... should we build a time machine and boycott Honda in 2006?

8
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stremme12
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9/25/2023 5:54am
stremme12 wrote:

Lady with pork chops in her cart the other day ran right into me. I'M SO TRIGGERED I WILL NO LONGER EAT PORK!!!!! 

MxAddic wrote:
When is the last time a little kid got hit and killed by a lady with a cart full of pork chops brainiac. Glad you think...

When is the last time a little kid got hit and killed by a lady with a cart full of pork chops brainiac.

Glad you think it's so funny. Sounds like your the perfect candidate to be a stark owner.

Hey man. It wasn't a cart full. Just a single pack of pork chops. 

2
MxAddic
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9/25/2023 5:57am Edited Date/Time 9/25/2023 6:01am
davis224 wrote:
I saw a kid on an 06 Honda ripping 4th gear in between trucks in the pits yesterday... should we build a time machine and boycott...

I saw a kid on an 06 Honda ripping 4th gear in between trucks in the pits yesterday... should we build a time machine and boycott Honda in 2006?

I guess your not sharp enough to know the difference between a 20 something with a unobtainable bike at a vintage ride and a little kid making a mistake.

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Richy
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9/25/2023 6:01am Edited Date/Time 9/25/2023 6:02am

Damnnn this is argument heavy even for Vital.

Can we all just agree that Stark built a cool bike but they're a bunch of dicks? 😂

5
djr
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9/25/2023 6:03am

Do you know what their current bottle neck is?

My complete guess for the current bottle neck would be -

Cash flow , causing slow payment to outside suppliers who then hold back parts needed to finish bikes.

Imagine if they are treating suppliers the same way as they are treating people who paid deposits a long time ago -

" I know we said we would pay you in September 23, but you are now going to have to wait until January 24"

 

2
davis224
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9/25/2023 6:16am
davis224 wrote:
I saw a kid on an 06 Honda ripping 4th gear in between trucks in the pits yesterday... should we build a time machine and boycott...

I saw a kid on an 06 Honda ripping 4th gear in between trucks in the pits yesterday... should we build a time machine and boycott Honda in 2006?

MxAddic wrote:
I guess your not sharp enough to know the difference between a 20 something with a unobtainable bike at a vintage ride and a little kid...

I guess your not sharp enough to know the difference between a 20 something with a unobtainable bike at a vintage ride and a little kid making a mistake.

You're*

Ooooor maybe stupid people exist, regardless of age and disposable income?

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wwdiii
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9/25/2023 7:04am
stremme12 wrote:

Lady with pork chops in her cart the other day ran right into me. I'M SO TRIGGERED I WILL NO LONGER EAT PORK!!!!! 

MxAddic wrote:
When is the last time a little kid got hit and killed by a lady with a cart full of pork chops brainiac. Glad you think...

When is the last time a little kid got hit and killed by a lady with a cart full of pork chops brainiac.

Glad you think it's so funny. Sounds like your the perfect candidate to be a stark owner.

It’s obvious you’ve never been to the Walmart in Jasper Texas!

2
ktmracer726
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9/25/2023 7:10am Edited Date/Time 9/25/2023 7:11am
MxAddic wrote:
After seeing some asswad wheelie through the pits WFO doing 60MPH on Saturday night (first one I have seen) @ the Zoar Reunion I don't think...

After seeing some asswad wheelie through the pits WFO doing 60MPH on Saturday night (first one I have seen) @ the Zoar Reunion I don't think it say's positive things about their customers. Can't say I am looking forward to seeing more of this type of thing in the future.

Sounds like all the rich moto kids at the races wheelieing through the pits on their surrons. 

3
9/25/2023 7:33am
I tested one on Wednesday here in italy. Only 3 laps on a narrow and slippery track with some jumps. It was set to just 44...

I tested one on Wednesday here in italy. Only 3 laps on a narrow and slippery track with some jumps. It was set to just 44 HPs and on the straights it looked already faster than my 2020 SxF 450. Can't imagine what it can be on a much stronger setting, but I'm sure it will be a serious PITA for a 4 stroke bike (or any bike).

BTW, it had the rear hand brake and it is incredibly easy to get used to it.

Beagle wrote:

Great, how was it? I guess 3 laps is just enough to get used to it a bit but what were your first impressions?

The bike is really skinny and "flat" compared to my sxf 450. Suspension is good if you push while a little harsher than my air forks at low speed. Entry and exit of tight turns is excellent, while mid of the curve was a little strange, probably due to the different engine brake behavior. The continuous acceleration due to the lack of gears is amazing even at that low power setting and traction seemed very good. I just closed small jumps to avoid issues to me and the bike, but it feels very manageable. Didn't test the strength of the brakes, but having the rear brake on the bar was not the problem I anticipated, to the point I think it can quickly turn in a big posture advantage. 

Consider that I only did 3 laps and my skill level is very poor, but if the bike was orange and my wallet larger I could be really keen to make a move.

Charging can be an issue if you have to rely on the (currently missing) track infrastructure, but I think easily managed by a good generator considering I usually ride 20 minutes every hour for a total of 5 or 6 motos.

4
Broseph
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9/25/2023 9:42am
MxAddic wrote:
After seeing some asswad wheelie through the pits WFO doing 60MPH on Saturday night (first one I have seen) @ the Zoar Reunion I don't think...

After seeing some asswad wheelie through the pits WFO doing 60MPH on Saturday night (first one I have seen) @ the Zoar Reunion I don't think it say's positive things about their customers. Can't say I am looking forward to seeing more of this type of thing in the future.

davis224 wrote:
I saw a kid on an 06 Honda ripping 4th gear in between trucks in the pits yesterday... should we build a time machine and boycott...

I saw a kid on an 06 Honda ripping 4th gear in between trucks in the pits yesterday... should we build a time machine and boycott Honda in 2006?

We absolutely should boycott Honda in 2006, but not for the reasons above.
 

What they did to the 2 stroke is unforgivable. 

 

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MxAddic
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9/25/2023 1:03pm
stremme12 wrote:

Hey man. It wasn't a cart full. Just a single pack of pork chops. 

I bet your a big dawg on the pock chop forums.

9
Beagle
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9/25/2023 1:13pm
I tested one on Wednesday here in italy. Only 3 laps on a narrow and slippery track with some jumps. It was set to just 44...

I tested one on Wednesday here in italy. Only 3 laps on a narrow and slippery track with some jumps. It was set to just 44 HPs and on the straights it looked already faster than my 2020 SxF 450. Can't imagine what it can be on a much stronger setting, but I'm sure it will be a serious PITA for a 4 stroke bike (or any bike).

BTW, it had the rear hand brake and it is incredibly easy to get used to it.

Beagle wrote:

Great, how was it? I guess 3 laps is just enough to get used to it a bit but what were your first impressions?

The bike is really skinny and "flat" compared to my sxf 450. Suspension is good if you push while a little harsher than my air forks...

The bike is really skinny and "flat" compared to my sxf 450. Suspension is good if you push while a little harsher than my air forks at low speed. Entry and exit of tight turns is excellent, while mid of the curve was a little strange, probably due to the different engine brake behavior. The continuous acceleration due to the lack of gears is amazing even at that low power setting and traction seemed very good. I just closed small jumps to avoid issues to me and the bike, but it feels very manageable. Didn't test the strength of the brakes, but having the rear brake on the bar was not the problem I anticipated, to the point I think it can quickly turn in a big posture advantage. 

Consider that I only did 3 laps and my skill level is very poor, but if the bike was orange and my wallet larger I could be really keen to make a move.

Charging can be an issue if you have to rely on the (currently missing) track infrastructure, but I think easily managed by a good generator considering I usually ride 20 minutes every hour for a total of 5 or 6 motos.

Thanks, it's nice to talk about bikes sometimes on this forum!

4
stremme12
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9/25/2023 1:21pm
stremme12 wrote:

Hey man. It wasn't a cart full. Just a single pack of pork chops. 

MxAddic wrote:

I bet your a big dawg on the pock chop forums.

I have no idea what you're trying to say.

MxAddic
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9/25/2023 2:15pm
stremme12 wrote:

Hey man. It wasn't a cart full. Just a single pack of pork chops. 

MxAddic wrote:

I bet your a big dawg on the pock chop forums.

stremme12 wrote:

I have no idea what you're trying to say.

For some reason that does not surprise me.

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stremme12
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9/25/2023 2:20pm Edited Date/Time 9/25/2023 2:23pm
MxAddic wrote:

I bet your a big dawg on the pock chop forums.

stremme12 wrote:

I have no idea what you're trying to say.

MxAddic wrote:

For some reason that does not surprise me.

I tried to search what a pock was. Best thing I found was a pimple. So I apologize if there is a language barrier issue here. I get forums can draw members from other countries so if English isn't your first language I totally get it man. On the other hand your defense tactic when you clearly are wrong is constantly putting down someone's intellectual ability in multiple threads so maybe you're just an asshole. 

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MxAddic
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9/25/2023 2:34pm
stremme12 wrote:
I tried to search what a pock was. Best thing I found was a pimple. So I apologize if there is a language barrier issue here...

I tried to search what a pock was. Best thing I found was a pimple. So I apologize if there is a language barrier issue here. I get forums can draw members from other countries so if English isn't your first language I totally get it man. On the other hand your defense tactic when you clearly are wrong is constantly putting down someone's intellectual ability in multiple threads so maybe you're just an asshole. 

I guess you know what I was trying to say now.

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Rupert X
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9/25/2023 2:55pm

They had three (3!) at Iron Pony in Columbus, Ohio on Saturday. My son, sadly, has been patiently awaiting his for a couple years now. Sigh. AE15CED0-B430-4C85-8BEA-4BDB3E2007D5

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Rupert X
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97441D79-4808-456B-BACF-FF0C0BF8E9B1

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Rupert X
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Rupert X
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Kulpa
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9/25/2023 3:02pm Edited Date/Time 9/25/2023 3:13pm

I had a opportunity to ride the Stark a few weeks ago. A dealer had two bikes and invited me for a test run near my place. I have one on order, but I had some concerns. First I did a 10 min warmup on my 23 YZ450f and next I got on a 60 HP setting foot rearbrake Varg. First of I was concerned about the weird noise the bike makes, while riding it didn't bother me at all, yes it sounds different, but when it revs up it feels kind of similar to a gas dirtbike + you can hear the tires braking traction under heavy acceleration and when braking was kind of cool, the nois from slapping chain didn't bother me all that much.  I thought maybe the bike is weird and kind of boring to ride without clutch and gears - it was so much fun, the power felt like a 450 when you hit a corner just right in the 3-rd gear, in the sweetspot all the time, going out from tight corners, hitting berms, fast corners - the power felt amayzing and I didn't miss the cluch and gears at all, it was just in the meat of the power all the time, I was very impressed. I only did 2 laps with the bike because other people wanted to ride also, but by the end of second lap I already felt somewhat at home on the bike - it sure turns well - the power is instant when you twist the throttle, but 60 HP on a fairly smooth track was easily managable. 2 fairly easy laps and about 4 minutes of riding the bike went from 40% battery to 30 % battery, but when I stopped and but the bike on stand the % climbed back to 33%.  Then I rode 2 laps on the second Varg at 45 HP setting (should be closer to 250F) with a hand rearbrake - the power felt good also, compared to a 250F the bike flows much better on low to mid rpm-s more like a 450. The hand brake was a bit weird at first but whe you get used to it I can totally see how you can control the braking power much better with  your fingers, not locking the rear wheel up, specially going through braking bumps and on hard landings. Braking without having to shift down and use the footbrake you can leave your feet in one palce and really focus on body position and entering the turn and the bike goes so effortlessly into offcamber ruts and into berms.  I thought that after 30 years of racing dirtbikes shifting gears, pulling cluch and footbrake are so second nature, but two laps on this bike and it felt like I can but so much more focus on body position and entering the turn when I don't have to use all these controls. At first the Varg felt a little weird on takeoffs and in the air, but 3-4 laps and I got used to it. After 2 laps I handed the second Varg to the next rider and hopped on my YZ 450 again, forgot to check the battery % this time when I got of the bike. On the 450 first of I felt the vibration of the engine, big diffrence and the YZ450 doesn't vibrate that much compared to some other OEM-s 450-s. When landing on flat jumps and going through some soft spots it felt like the cutch on the YZ450 was slipping, the Varg just has that instant connection from throttle to rear wheel, the 450 now felt like it had a little lag when you twist the throttle. On really tight 180 turns when you take the inside rut, slow down, point the bike in new direction and go, the Varg performed so much better, it was easier to make the tight turn and when you get on the throttle, the acceleration even in 45 HP setting seemed more instant and without the clutch and gearshifts it just goes - almost from stop to 4 th gear wide open so effortlesly. Back on my bike I wasnt thinking that I really missed shifting gears and pulling the clutch while on the Varg, I thought that it was a really fun bike to ride. The concern about battery life remains, but it was also really fun to ride in 45HP setting and I think when needed the battery should last a bit longer when you use it in more moderate HP settings and I am pretty sure I ordered my Varg months before this dealer even heard about the Stark Varg, but now my  order was just recently pushed from november to march 2024 while the dealer offered me to deliver a new order nov-dec. Have to think a bit what should I do.

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