Stark Varg battery life….where da haterz at?

8/23/2023 9:10pm
47% are caused by mechanical failure or malfunction, 21% are caused by electrical issues... Electricity is dangerous, it should be banned!  

47% are caused by mechanical failure or malfunction, 21% are caused by electrical issues...

image-20230824140005-1

Electricity is dangerous, it should be banned!

 

burn1986 wrote:

You know Magoo was kind of joking right?

Yes I do, but electrical issues cause 21% of vehicle fire, electricity needs to be banned immediately!

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2
8/23/2023 9:14pm
ICE powered vehicles never catch fire...

ICE powered vehicles never catch fire...

image-20230824130657-1

mattyhamz2 wrote:

What percentage of those are caused by electrical issues? 😂 Just playin around!

47% are caused by mechanical failure or malfunction, 21% are caused by electrical issues... Electricity is dangerous, it should be banned!  

47% are caused by mechanical failure or malfunction, 21% are caused by electrical issues...

image-20230824140005-1

Electricity is dangerous, it should be banned!

 

Although I was completely joking, i did get curious so thank you for posting that. I honestly didn’t think it was going to be over 10-15%.

1
burn1986
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bossier city, LA, USA
8/23/2023 9:14pm Edited Date/Time 8/23/2023 9:20pm
AMA's rules are controlled by the AMA's Board or Directors, who are made up of OEM manufacturers who have corporate headquarters in the US... Why would...

AMA's rules are controlled by the AMA's Board or Directors, who are made up of OEM manufacturers who have corporate headquarters in the US...

image-20230824140415-1

image-20230824140556-2

Why would these manufacturers let Stark race the Varg in AMA Supercross or AMA Motocross?

It basically can’t be raced in any pro racing atm.

There will have to be a whole new series developed, or maybe the E-Bike MX World Championship.

2
8/23/2023 9:17pm Edited Date/Time 8/23/2023 9:19pm
AMA's rules are controlled by the AMA's Board or Directors, who are made up of OEM manufacturers who have corporate headquarters in the US... Why would...

AMA's rules are controlled by the AMA's Board or Directors, who are made up of OEM manufacturers who have corporate headquarters in the US...

image-20230824140415-1

image-20230824140556-2

Why would these manufacturers let Stark race the Varg in AMA Supercross or AMA Motocross?

burn1986 wrote:
It basically can’t be raced in any pro racing atm. There will have to be a whole new series developed, or maybe the E-Bike MX World...

It basically can’t be raced in any pro racing atm.

There will have to be a whole new series developed, or maybe the E-Bike MX World Championship.

FIM is controlled by European countries national federations, who are controlled by local clubs, who are controlled by club members, ie riders!

Some European countries are letting the Varg race in national championships, FIM will eventually let them race in MXGP.

The AMA is controlled by the industry.

Different approaches, each has it's strengths and weaknesses.

3

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burn1986
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8/23/2023 9:21pm Edited Date/Time 8/23/2023 9:25pm
FIM is controlled by European countries national federations, who are controlled by local clubs, who are controlled by club members, ie riders! Some European countries are...

FIM is controlled by European countries national federations, who are controlled by local clubs, who are controlled by club members, ie riders!

Some European countries are letting the Varg race in national championships, FIM will eventually let them race in MXGP.

The AMA is controlled by the industry.

Different approaches, each has it's strengths and weaknesses.

I can’t see FiM allowing it in the MXGP. Of course, we don’t know what’s going to happen in the next 2-5 years. I shudder to think about the cost of these things in 5 years.

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8/23/2023 9:31pm
FIM is controlled by European countries national federations, who are controlled by local clubs, who are controlled by club members, ie riders! Some European countries are...

FIM is controlled by European countries national federations, who are controlled by local clubs, who are controlled by club members, ie riders!

Some European countries are letting the Varg race in national championships, FIM will eventually let them race in MXGP.

The AMA is controlled by the industry.

Different approaches, each has it's strengths and weaknesses.

burn1986 wrote:
I can’t see FiM allowing it in the MXGP. Of course, we don’t know what’s going to happen in the next 2-5 years. I shudder to...

I can’t see FiM allowing it in the MXGP. Of course, we don’t know what’s going to happen in the next 2-5 years. I shudder to think about the cost of these things in 5 years.

The FIM has a sustainability strategy...

https://sustainability.fim-moto.com/15-1

Which includes promoting electric in their championships...

image-20230824142746-1

I doubt Vargs will be allowed to race MXGP next year, but may be allowed to race 2025.

Other manufacturers are unlikely to have full sized electric motocross bikes until 2028/2029.

5
Beagle
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8/23/2023 10:19pm
I'm not anti ICE or anti electric, I'm anti hypocritical people who post pictures of electric vehicles on fire, but don't acknowledge ICE vehicles also catch...

I'm not anti ICE or anti electric, I'm anti hypocritical people who post pictures of electric vehicles on fire, but don't acknowledge ICE vehicles also catch fire!

I love my 2 stroke, it puts a smile on my face every time I ride it, but I can also see the appeal of the Varg, like every other bike, it has good points and bad points.

Man, what's the point being so open minded, you're ruining the discussion, I thought we had to pick teams, pledge allegiance to our electric/ fossil fuel overlords and register at the nearest enrollment office ?

Are you telling me you're enjoying bikes without letting politics and lunacy spoil you fun ? How dare you !

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1
8/23/2023 10:22pm
I'm not anti ICE or anti electric, I'm anti hypocritical people who post pictures of electric vehicles on fire, but don't acknowledge ICE vehicles also catch...

I'm not anti ICE or anti electric, I'm anti hypocritical people who post pictures of electric vehicles on fire, but don't acknowledge ICE vehicles also catch fire!

I love my 2 stroke, it puts a smile on my face every time I ride it, but I can also see the appeal of the Varg, like every other bike, it has good points and bad points.

Beagle wrote:
Man, what's the point being so open minded, you're ruining the discussion, I thought we had to pick teams, pledge allegiance to our electric/ fossil fuel...

Man, what's the point being so open minded, you're ruining the discussion, I thought we had to pick teams, pledge allegiance to our electric/ fossil fuel overlords and register at the nearest enrollment office ?

Are you telling me you're enjoying bikes without letting politics and lunacy spoil you fun ? How dare you !

No, no, no, 2 stroke Hondas rule, 4 strokes, electric and every other manufacturer should be banned!

1
1
Magoofan
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8/23/2023 10:59pm
47% are caused by mechanical failure or malfunction, 21% are caused by electrical issues... Electricity is dangerous, it should be banned!  

47% are caused by mechanical failure or malfunction, 21% are caused by electrical issues...

image-20230824140005-1

Electricity is dangerous, it should be banned!

 

burn1986 wrote:

You know Magoo was kind of joking right?

Grinning

2
5
MxAddic
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8/24/2023 5:06am Edited Date/Time 8/24/2023 5:21am

Not sure how anybody with a strait face could claim a $7K disposable battery even remotely resembles anything net zero. My idea of net zero is taking two scrap bikes and making one for half the price of a battery.

IMG 1012%5B1%5D 2.JPG?VersionId=yT6a8v

IMG 1015%5B1%5D 4

 

15
8/24/2023 8:15am
Remember how much a 42" LCD/Plasma/led TV  used to cost when they first came out?  A single Samsung factory that built blanks  at a bigger size...

Remember how much a 42" LCD/Plasma/led TV  used to cost when they first came out?  A single Samsung factory that built blanks  at a bigger size was what started the prices to drop.  Bigger blanks, more screens per blank. Everything has a screen these days and prices dropped because of it. You can still buy expensive TV's. But You can also buy a 42" flat screen for $100 on Black Friday. They used to be $3 or $4K when they first came out.  But a higher demand for more blanks allowed them to build more factories that could produce larger blanks, and screens are used in just about everything now.  

 All it takes is one company to do it and the others would have to follow or be put out of business. Electric vehicles take way fewer parts and those parts take fewer machines, processes and steps to produce.   Right now a company has to spread that cost out over 1000's of bikes. Scale that up and Your cost per bike goes down. Anton said the  materials in a Varg, raw materials cost about 500 euro's. It is the converting of raw materials into the bike that most of the cost comes from. 

    

burn1986 wrote:

You lost me bro. They’re still $13k right? 
 

Decaf coffee is your friend.

I'm talking years down the road.  Like every other new tech ,the price will come down . I used the prices of TV's as an example of my concept of sharing parts across multiple platforms.   Like  5 or 10 years from now.    Transmitters for RC cars have come way down from where they were 35 years ago. Not comparing  the value of a dollar then VS now, or adjusting for inflation. Even more items if You make adjustments for inflation. 

 Consumer level camcorders, computers,  digital camera's. I could keep going listing items that cost has gone down that were able to follow the type of model I'm talking about.  TV's being the best example since there are screens used on so many different things. 

 

3
crt32
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8/24/2023 8:21am
I'm talking years down the road.  Like every other new tech ,the price will come down . I used the prices of TV's as an example...

I'm talking years down the road.  Like every other new tech ,the price will come down . I used the prices of TV's as an example of my concept of sharing parts across multiple platforms.   Like  5 or 10 years from now.    Transmitters for RC cars have come way down from where they were 35 years ago. Not comparing  the value of a dollar then VS now, or adjusting for inflation. Even more items if You make adjustments for inflation. 

 Consumer level camcorders, computers,  digital camera's. I could keep going listing items that cost has gone down that were able to follow the type of model I'm talking about.  TV's being the best example since there are screens used on so many different things. 

 

But it wont come down, battery production is not sustainable, supply cannot support 100% EV demand, and it is not good for environment.  

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1
8/24/2023 8:32am
MxAddic wrote:
Not sure how anybody with a strait face could claim a $7K disposable battery even remotely resembles anything net zero. My idea of net zero is...

Not sure how anybody with a strait face could claim a $7K disposable battery even remotely resembles anything net zero. My idea of net zero is taking two scrap bikes and making one for half the price of a battery.

IMG 1012%5B1%5D 2.JPG?VersionId=yT6a8v

IMG 1015%5B1%5D 4

 

I was thinking about  a similar thing the other day. How cars of the 50's and 60s that were almost all metal with no plastic, were probable more recyclable , repaired instead of replaced and not al plastic like newer stuff.   

The Lithium batteries are both rebuildable and recyclable. Tesla  has talked about  a closed loop lithium battery. Were they would only use recycled lithium  from old batteries and not need to mine new lithium. With EV's being such a small segment that is growing each year , I don't see how that would be possible right now.  Right now Tesla is pretty bad about replacing instead of repairing a battery that  has any issue. There are third party places that recycle  and repair lithium  batteries right now.

I'm not really sold on Electric Vehicles made of plastic saving the planet. But as a way to power a Dirtbike, I think it could make some amazingly fun machines that could be more fun in many ways than Gas bikes. And help people be able to ride in places they could not before.      

2
8/24/2023 8:40am
I'm talking years down the road.  Like every other new tech ,the price will come down . I used the prices of TV's as an example...

I'm talking years down the road.  Like every other new tech ,the price will come down . I used the prices of TV's as an example of my concept of sharing parts across multiple platforms.   Like  5 or 10 years from now.    Transmitters for RC cars have come way down from where they were 35 years ago. Not comparing  the value of a dollar then VS now, or adjusting for inflation. Even more items if You make adjustments for inflation. 

 Consumer level camcorders, computers,  digital camera's. I could keep going listing items that cost has gone down that were able to follow the type of model I'm talking about.  TV's being the best example since there are screens used on so many different things. 

 

crt32 wrote:

But it wont come down, battery production is not sustainable, supply cannot support 100% EV demand, and it is not good for environment.  

I guess we will see.   Time will tell , and history  shows its very possible. 

2
LungButter
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8/24/2023 9:54am

Found 'em Tongue

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8/24/2023 10:48am
burn1986 wrote:

I will probably get proven wrong on this but I predict this bike never races in AMA SX or MX.

wwdiii wrote:
Considering nobody but a chosen few will have one near term.  I’d have to agree on this bike not hitting AMA or SX.  If it was...

Considering nobody but a chosen few will have one near term.  I’d have to agree on this bike not hitting AMA or SX.  If it was real the first to review would have been a major publication.  Not a bunch of fanboys !!!!   Not saying another Cannondale but  maybe another drive an F150 EV across America.  

AMA's rules are controlled by the AMA's Board or Directors, who are made up of OEM manufacturers who have corporate headquarters in the US... Why would...

AMA's rules are controlled by the AMA's Board or Directors, who are made up of OEM manufacturers who have corporate headquarters in the US...

image-20230824140415-1

image-20230824140556-2

Why would these manufacturers let Stark race the Varg in AMA Supercross or AMA Motocross?

I tend to agree that they will not want to let the Varg in.  But Stark could also join like Triumphs. And assuming that the other brands have EMX bikes in the works , maybe they let Stark in to be the guinea pig .  I think that if they do not let Stark race, they are helping Stark out. Stark can claim the bike is so good that the other brands are afraid to race against it. 

I think that the Varg could be amazing in SX. I hope that it gets into some AMA races somehow in the next couple years.  It would be cool to see how Josh hill could do. 

4
hititpind
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8/24/2023 3:19pm

I watched a "How To" video on youtube for changing gear oil on the stark. How often do you have to do this?

 

8/24/2023 4:15pm
hititpind wrote:
I watched a "How To" video on youtube for changing gear oil on the stark. How often do you have to do this?  

I watched a "How To" video on youtube for changing gear oil on the stark. How often do you have to do this?

 

Looks like break in is 5 hours and then every 40 hours or 1 time every 12 months after.   80ML  of oil,  a quart would give you  12  oil changes.          Screenshot of Varg manual below.    

      image-20230824191340-3     

image-20230824191232-2

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1
8/24/2023 4:54pm
I'm talking years down the road.  Like every other new tech ,the price will come down . I used the prices of TV's as an example...

I'm talking years down the road.  Like every other new tech ,the price will come down . I used the prices of TV's as an example of my concept of sharing parts across multiple platforms.   Like  5 or 10 years from now.    Transmitters for RC cars have come way down from where they were 35 years ago. Not comparing  the value of a dollar then VS now, or adjusting for inflation. Even more items if You make adjustments for inflation. 

 Consumer level camcorders, computers,  digital camera's. I could keep going listing items that cost has gone down that were able to follow the type of model I'm talking about.  TV's being the best example since there are screens used on so many different things. 

 

crt32 wrote:

But it wont come down, battery production is not sustainable, supply cannot support 100% EV demand, and it is not good for environment.  

Supply grows to meet demand, like all resources there is a lag.

This is a dirt bike forum, nobody cares about the environment!

4
Magoofan
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8/24/2023 4:59pm

Supply grows to meet demand, like all resources there is a lag.

This is a dirt bike forum, nobody cares about the environment!

Not true.

I'm no green fanatic and I don't buy into the climate-change-fear-mongering bullshit... but I have always cared about the environment.  That's how we were raised...

5
2
8/24/2023 5:15pm

Supply grows to meet demand, like all resources there is a lag.

This is a dirt bike forum, nobody cares about the environment!

Magoofan wrote:
Not true. I'm no green fanatic and I don't buy into the climate-change-fear-mongering bullshit... but I have always cared about the environment.  That's how we were...

Not true.

I'm no green fanatic and I don't buy into the climate-change-fear-mongering bullshit... but I have always cared about the environment.  That's how we were raised...

Think of the erosion your dirt bike tires are causing, you need to stop riding it!

4
chasetwo79
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8/24/2023 5:24pm

I think the thing seems like a technically strong designed machine. I admire it. 

However, I still don’t want to ride a bike with no motor feel or sound really what so ever I’m any significant manor. 

Not wanting an RC car sound attached to the hobby and sport I love doesn’t make me a hater. 
 

 

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hititpind
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8/24/2023 10:11pm
Looks like break in is 5 hours and then every 40 hours or 1 time every 12 months after.   80ML  of oil,  a quart would give...

Looks like break in is 5 hours and then every 40 hours or 1 time every 12 months after.   80ML  of oil,  a quart would give you  12  oil changes.          Screenshot of Varg manual below.    

      image-20230824191340-3     

image-20230824191232-2

Cool. Thanks 👍🏻

1
8/25/2023 5:28am

There is just no way Josh Hill was riding continuously for 75 minutes on 80hp setting. As others have stated, that is likely just "bike-on" time and not indicative of actual riding time. If he showed his ride log, that would tell the real story.

That said, in my experience with the bike thus far, the range is plenty for a majority of riders out there. I posted 2 entire 30+ minute motos at Cahuilla Creek MX on youtube to show realistic range expectations on a motocross track, where i used about 80% of the battery each time. I consider myself pretty average skill level amongst the motocross community, so it should be more or less indicative of the range any other joe motocross should expect to get on a motocross track. As i always say, range on electric bikes varies drastically depending on skill level, speed of the track, type of dirt, power mode you're riding in, etc. Could a slower rider get double this range on a tight, hard pack track? Absolutely. Can you go over 90 minutes dicking around in the trails on a single charge? Absolutely. Can a fast rider on a deep sand track drain the battery 100%-0% in 30 minutes? Absolutely.

Exhibit A :

 

 

4
sandman768
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8/25/2023 6:45am

So… I can still use Rotella in the gearbox?😂

5
8/25/2023 11:11am

He play rode for an hour, stopping frequently, sometimes on the gas hard to clear jumps and other times just cruising around. This was all on hard pack conditions on what seemed like a fairly mellow day weather wise. This bike is awesome and I’m eager to swing my leg over one but the tech is just not quite there yet to match an ICE and it’s range is completely dependent on outside factors, most of which are out of the riders control. 
 

It would be cool if Stark shrunk this motor/battery down and made an e-bike conversion kit for KLX/CRF/TTR pitbikes. 

2
LungButter
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9/6/2023 9:32am

Joey Lancaster claims "Riding backyard moto at my house I got 3 hours out of the battery on the first charge."

He rides faster and harder than most Vitards I would bet.

3
cwtoyota
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Tacoma, WA, USA
9/6/2023 1:25pm
LungButter wrote:
Joey Lancaster claims "Riding backyard moto at my house I got 3 hours out of the battery on the first charge." He rides faster and harder...

Joey Lancaster claims "Riding backyard moto at my house I got 3 hours out of the battery on the first charge."

He rides faster and harder than most Vitards I would bet.

Joey is a decently skilled Vet Expert / 30+A racer and the guy behind the 125 Dream Race. 
I'll vouch for his speed on the track.
It has been a few years since I remember seeing him on the gate with us at the local races.

As for the three hours, "at my house" could mean anything for riding intensity.
I believe he does a fair bit of low intensity woods and play riding.

Seeing is believing and I think the most transparent assessment we have so far is from theycallmebryan's youtube videos.
(I am not suggesting that Joey is BS-ing anyone.  He's a stand-up guy as far as I'm concerned).

2
cwtoyota
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9/6/2023 1:30pm
There is just no way Josh Hill was riding continuously for 75 minutes on 80hp setting. As others have stated, that is likely just "bike-on" time...

There is just no way Josh Hill was riding continuously for 75 minutes on 80hp setting. As others have stated, that is likely just "bike-on" time and not indicative of actual riding time. If he showed his ride log, that would tell the real story.

That said, in my experience with the bike thus far, the range is plenty for a majority of riders out there. I posted 2 entire 30+ minute motos at Cahuilla Creek MX on youtube to show realistic range expectations on a motocross track, where i used about 80% of the battery each time. I consider myself pretty average skill level amongst the motocross community, so it should be more or less indicative of the range any other joe motocross should expect to get on a motocross track. As i always say, range on electric bikes varies drastically depending on skill level, speed of the track, type of dirt, power mode you're riding in, etc. Could a slower rider get double this range on a tight, hard pack track? Absolutely. Can you go over 90 minutes dicking around in the trails on a single charge? Absolutely. Can a fast rider on a deep sand track drain the battery 100%-0% in 30 minutes? Absolutely.

Exhibit A :

 

 

I watched some of your first videos on this thing out of curiosity.
You seem to be extremely excited about it, but also realistic about pros and cons of the bike. 
That's what we need.

What skill level do you typically race at?

Is it even remotely possible to do two classes on a Varg, given the possibility that you could have moto's almost back to back sometimes?

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