Stark Vargs (as in plural)

Beagle
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Toulouse, FR
8/11/2023 3:02pm

Riding Moab on a Varg looks like great fun (at least until you get a flat tire Grinning)

 

 

3
8/11/2023 5:13pm
dcg141 wrote:

I got a VIN# and a shipping notification for our demo unit today.

VIN?

Are they into the hundreds yet?

Ray Knight
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105
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Location
Chardon, OH, USA
8/11/2023 8:11pm
Beagle wrote:
Riding Moab on a Varg looks like great fun (at least until you get a flat tire )    

Riding Moab on a Varg looks like great fun (at least until you get a flat tire Grinning)

 

 

Just watched this! At the beginning I was wondering how far they would get without a flat. My front tube had 5 pinholes after an hour on a smooth MX track at 13.5psi. They said they are working on improving the durability on those tubes. They are basically weightless which is awesome! Tubes are so heavy! Saving any weight from the tire is huge. But i'm running standard 2mm tubes for now. I hope they get these sorted so I can use them in my other bikes too. 

1
1
yota
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Crystal River, FL, USA
8/12/2023 10:34am

did they charge you VAT?

The Shop

dcg141
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USA
8/12/2023 2:21pm
dcg141 wrote:

I got a VIN# and a shipping notification for our demo unit today.

VIN?

Are they into the hundreds yet?

Yes, 296

7
Beagle
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Location
Toulouse, FR
8/14/2023 12:47pm
 

If you're worried about the lack of clutch, it looks like the instant and massive torque of electric motor can help you clear obstacles.

8
8/14/2023 5:34pm
Beagle wrote:
 

If you're worried about the lack of clutch, it looks like the instant and massive torque of electric motor can help you clear obstacles.

I have one on order, and am keen to get it for that exact style of riding. My concern watching that video is when you want to use the clutch for the initial pop, then once the wheel is up pull the clutch back in to regulate speed/drive. When he wheelies towards that last tree I think he would have pulled the clutch back in if he had one, full drive into that from that close could be rough.

8/14/2023 10:46pm
dcg141 wrote:

I got a VIN# and a shipping notification for our demo unit today.

VIN?

Are they into the hundreds yet?

dcg141 wrote:

Yes, 296

How many Alta's were built?

Beagle
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1868
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Location
Toulouse, FR
8/15/2023 12:27am

VIN?

Are they into the hundreds yet?

dcg141 wrote:

Yes, 296

ksithumper wrote:

How many Alta's were built?

Good question, with Varg production slowly ramping up (let's see where they're at at the end of the year), I was also wondering about sales numbers for motocrossers but could not find detailed information for each bike or market.

From what I gathered, Alta produced about 900 bikes and they had been delivering for 3 years before they went under.

In comparison, initial production numbers for the Stark were about 10/weeks at launch time, sure is slow (especially when you have 18 000 orders to fulfill Tongue) but 500/year was likely already on par or better than Alta. Let's see how long they take to get to 50 then 100/week.

Then I found 2020 sales numbers for Australia to get some sort of perspective. In that time the most popular MX bike was Yamaha YZ250F (800/year), looking at high power bikes more comparable to the Varg it was YZ450F (700/year), also about 400 KTM 450SXF sold per year.

My take from these relatively low numbers is that it would not take too much for Stark to become a significant player in some markets for high powered MXers.

Data found here for Australia market, january-june 2020 (doubled to roughly extrapolate for full year): https://www.mcnews.com.au/off-road-motorcycles-sales-figures/

Obviously I would love to find numbers for other markets. In Australia MX represent roughly 15% of "off-road" sales for which it's easier to get global statistics.

3
8/15/2023 1:57am Edited Date/Time 8/15/2023 6:06am
dcg141 wrote:

Yes, 296

ksithumper wrote:

How many Alta's were built?

Beagle wrote:
Good question, with Varg production slowly ramping up (let's see where they're at at the end of the year), I was also wondering about sales numbers...

Good question, with Varg production slowly ramping up (let's see where they're at at the end of the year), I was also wondering about sales numbers for motocrossers but could not find detailed information for each bike or market.

From what I gathered, Alta produced about 900 bikes and they had been delivering for 3 years before they went under.

In comparison, initial production numbers for the Stark were about 10/weeks at launch time, sure is slow (especially when you have 18 000 orders to fulfill Tongue) but 500/year was likely already on par or better than Alta. Let's see how long they take to get to 50 then 100/week.

Then I found 2020 sales numbers for Australia to get some sort of perspective. In that time the most popular MX bike was Yamaha YZ250F (800/year), looking at high power bikes more comparable to the Varg it was YZ450F (700/year), also about 400 KTM 450SXF sold per year.

My take from these relatively low numbers is that it would not take too much for Stark to become a significant player in some markets for high powered MXers.

Data found here for Australia market, january-june 2020 (doubled to roughly extrapolate for full year): https://www.mcnews.com.au/off-road-motorcycles-sales-figures/

Obviously I would love to find numbers for other markets. In Australia MX represent roughly 15% of "off-road" sales for which it's easier to get global statistics.

In 1984 Honda sold 11,764 CR125s, and 8,472 CR250s in Australia, 38,900 CR125s, and 30,191 CR250s were sold worldwide, Australia was 29% of the world wide market. In 40 years the market has shrunk significantly, total global sales of full sized motocross bikes worldwide is 40,000 to 50,000.

Stark's 18,000 preorders must have existing manufacturers concerned, but only if they deliver.

1
JM485
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Davis, CA, USA
8/15/2023 5:59am

My bike hasn’t come in yet, but I was able to borrow my buddy’s Varg for the Motoclimb at Big Hill Jam last weekend.  This thing was awesome and a game changer for me, not having to worry about covering the clutch or shifting during my run.

 

 

 

10
1
early
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University Heights, OH, USA
8/15/2023 7:02am
Beagle wrote:
 

If you're worried about the lack of clutch, it looks like the instant and massive torque of electric motor can help you clear obstacles.

I wonder if it would be useful to have a trials mode dialed in where lots of torque is available but top speed is severely limited. Could help a whiskey throttle situation a bit.

1
8/15/2023 7:30am
In 1984 Honda sold 11,764 CR125s, and 8,472 CR250s in Australia, 38,900 CR125s, and 30,191 CR250s were sold worldwide, Australia was 29% of the world wide...

In 1984 Honda sold 11,764 CR125s, and 8,472 CR250s in Australia, 38,900 CR125s, and 30,191 CR250s were sold worldwide, Australia was 29% of the world wide market. In 40 years the market has shrunk significantly, total global sales of full sized motocross bikes worldwide is 40,000 to 50,000.

Stark's 18,000 preorders must have existing manufacturers concerned, but only if they deliver.

I'm told Stark production is 200/month in August, and rising rapidly. If true, that's impressive in the current supply chain environment.

I'm also hearing of UK dealers coming under pressure from their existing OEMs to drop the Stark franchise.

The established players are concerned. They will use every trick they can  to prevent,  or at least slow down, national federations' permission for e-bikes to compete in national and international series'.

 

4
1
fourfourone
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86oh, CT, USA
8/15/2023 7:36am
Beagle wrote:
Riding Moab on a Varg looks like great fun (at least until you get a flat tire )    

Riding Moab on a Varg looks like great fun (at least until you get a flat tire Grinning)

 

 

Ray Knight wrote:
Just watched this! At the beginning I was wondering how far they would get without a flat. My front tube had 5 pinholes after an hour...

Just watched this! At the beginning I was wondering how far they would get without a flat. My front tube had 5 pinholes after an hour on a smooth MX track at 13.5psi. They said they are working on improving the durability on those tubes. They are basically weightless which is awesome! Tubes are so heavy! Saving any weight from the tire is huge. But i'm running standard 2mm tubes for now. I hope they get these sorted so I can use them in my other bikes too. 

You're doing something wrong if you get leaks like that. 

Ray Knight
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Location
Chardon, OH, USA
8/15/2023 10:17am
Beagle wrote:
 

If you're worried about the lack of clutch, it looks like the instant and massive torque of electric motor can help you clear obstacles.

I have one on order, and am keen to get it for that exact style of riding. My concern watching that video is when you want...

I have one on order, and am keen to get it for that exact style of riding. My concern watching that video is when you want to use the clutch for the initial pop, then once the wheel is up pull the clutch back in to regulate speed/drive. When he wheelies towards that last tree I think he would have pulled the clutch back in if he had one, full drive into that from that close could be rough.

Throttle on - throttle off. No clutch needed. It pops HARD with sharp throttle input! Easy to get used to. Took me 2 laps to feel natural. VERY easy to ride. 

1
Ray Knight
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Chardon, OH, USA
8/15/2023 10:19am
Beagle wrote:
Riding Moab on a Varg looks like great fun (at least until you get a flat tire )    

Riding Moab on a Varg looks like great fun (at least until you get a flat tire Grinning)

 

 

Ray Knight wrote:
Just watched this! At the beginning I was wondering how far they would get without a flat. My front tube had 5 pinholes after an hour...

Just watched this! At the beginning I was wondering how far they would get without a flat. My front tube had 5 pinholes after an hour on a smooth MX track at 13.5psi. They said they are working on improving the durability on those tubes. They are basically weightless which is awesome! Tubes are so heavy! Saving any weight from the tire is huge. But i'm running standard 2mm tubes for now. I hope they get these sorted so I can use them in my other bikes too. 

You're doing something wrong if you get leaks like that. 

Explain? I set the tire pressure. That's how they shipped the bike. Literally out of the box, set tire pressure to 13.5psi, rode one MX track session (smooth track). Come out the next day and front tire is flat. Took out the tube and found 5 pinholes on the rim side. What did I do to cause this? Seems like a defective tube to me! Rim strip was covering the spokes just fine when I pulled the tire. 

Ray Knight
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Location
Chardon, OH, USA
8/15/2023 10:25am
Beagle wrote:
 

If you're worried about the lack of clutch, it looks like the instant and massive torque of electric motor can help you clear obstacles.

early wrote:
I wonder if it would be useful to have a trials mode dialed in where lots of torque is available but top speed is severely limited...

I wonder if it would be useful to have a trials mode dialed in where lots of torque is available but top speed is severely limited. Could help a whiskey throttle situation a bit.

That's actually an awesome idea! I bet they could program that to the app easily! The thing with these bikes is when you are on the throttle, there is no speed limit. Like take a CR500 for example. Yeah it makes monster power BUT it runs out of gear. The Stark keeps going! That's part of why the 60-80HP modes are so crazy to ride. Whiskey throttle is on a whole new level now! lol. 

8500rpm
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SE
8/15/2023 11:41am

Not sure if posted, 'Sur Ronster' but the Varg will bring so many sneaker-t-shirt riding urban videos Smile

Soon Colby Raha doesn't need to sneak, just ride straight to downtown NYC... what about wheelieboyz will they appreciate the Varg?

https://youtu.be/ysT5TCqyHP0

1
8/15/2023 7:48pm
In 1984 Honda sold 11,764 CR125s, and 8,472 CR250s in Australia, 38,900 CR125s, and 30,191 CR250s were sold worldwide, Australia was 29% of the world wide...

In 1984 Honda sold 11,764 CR125s, and 8,472 CR250s in Australia, 38,900 CR125s, and 30,191 CR250s were sold worldwide, Australia was 29% of the world wide market. In 40 years the market has shrunk significantly, total global sales of full sized motocross bikes worldwide is 40,000 to 50,000.

Stark's 18,000 preorders must have existing manufacturers concerned, but only if they deliver.

ksithumper wrote:
I'm told Stark production is 200/month in August, and rising rapidly. If true, that's impressive in the current supply chain environment. I'm also hearing of UK dealers...

I'm told Stark production is 200/month in August, and rising rapidly. If true, that's impressive in the current supply chain environment.

I'm also hearing of UK dealers coming under pressure from their existing OEMs to drop the Stark franchise.

The established players are concerned. They will use every trick they can  to prevent,  or at least slow down, national federations' permission for e-bikes to compete in national and international series'.

 

200/month, 18,000 pre-orders, that's 90 months!

Starks video showing battery assembly, showed a 10 minute cycle time for one battery pack, the should be capable of producing 40-50 bikes per 8 hour shift, they need to be running 2~3 shifts to meet demand.

1
AussieParaMX
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Location
Mount Waverley, VIC, AU
8/15/2023 10:05pm
In 1984 Honda sold 11,764 CR125s, and 8,472 CR250s in Australia, 38,900 CR125s, and 30,191 CR250s were sold worldwide, Australia was 29% of the world wide...

In 1984 Honda sold 11,764 CR125s, and 8,472 CR250s in Australia, 38,900 CR125s, and 30,191 CR250s were sold worldwide, Australia was 29% of the world wide market. In 40 years the market has shrunk significantly, total global sales of full sized motocross bikes worldwide is 40,000 to 50,000.

Stark's 18,000 preorders must have existing manufacturers concerned, but only if they deliver.

ksithumper wrote:
I'm told Stark production is 200/month in August, and rising rapidly. If true, that's impressive in the current supply chain environment. I'm also hearing of UK dealers...

I'm told Stark production is 200/month in August, and rising rapidly. If true, that's impressive in the current supply chain environment.

I'm also hearing of UK dealers coming under pressure from their existing OEMs to drop the Stark franchise.

The established players are concerned. They will use every trick they can  to prevent,  or at least slow down, national federations' permission for e-bikes to compete in national and international series'.

 

200/month, 18,000 pre-orders, that's 90 months! Starks video showing battery assembly, showed a 10 minute cycle time for one battery pack, the should be capable of...

200/month, 18,000 pre-orders, that's 90 months!

Starks video showing battery assembly, showed a 10 minute cycle time for one battery pack, the should be capable of producing 40-50 bikes per 8 hour shift, they need to be running 2~3 shifts to meet demand.

Do people not understand ‘and rising rapidly’ or ‘ramping up’….

of course they need to be producing more but production does just go from Zero 6 weeks ago to 1000s a month…  It has and will take time and there will be problems with the bikes, garaunteed, but they are coming out and they are incredibly impressive and with the response from other manufacturers… game changing 

10
Motofinne
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FI
8/15/2023 11:02pm

I wish we could separate the negative comments and people to their own threads about the Stark where they can in a circle complain and find negative stuff about it. Every time i click on one of these threads they're filled with negativity when it would be nice to have a place where someone could read about the bike and the experience of the bike (since they are obviously shipping them to customers now).

But i guess that is too much to be asked. 

5
2
8/15/2023 11:33pm
ksithumper wrote:
I'm told Stark production is 200/month in August, and rising rapidly. If true, that's impressive in the current supply chain environment. I'm also hearing of UK dealers...

I'm told Stark production is 200/month in August, and rising rapidly. If true, that's impressive in the current supply chain environment.

I'm also hearing of UK dealers coming under pressure from their existing OEMs to drop the Stark franchise.

The established players are concerned. They will use every trick they can  to prevent,  or at least slow down, national federations' permission for e-bikes to compete in national and international series'.

 

200/month, 18,000 pre-orders, that's 90 months! Starks video showing battery assembly, showed a 10 minute cycle time for one battery pack, the should be capable of...

200/month, 18,000 pre-orders, that's 90 months!

Starks video showing battery assembly, showed a 10 minute cycle time for one battery pack, the should be capable of producing 40-50 bikes per 8 hour shift, they need to be running 2~3 shifts to meet demand.

Do people not understand ‘and rising rapidly’ or ‘ramping up’…. of course they need to be producing more but production does just go from Zero 6...

Do people not understand ‘and rising rapidly’ or ‘ramping up’….

of course they need to be producing more but production does just go from Zero 6 weeks ago to 1000s a month…  It has and will take time and there will be problems with the bikes, garaunteed, but they are coming out and they are incredibly impressive and with the response from other manufacturers… game changing 

Stark showed their battery pack assembly cell working 12 months ago, and their assembly line 9 months ago, their ramp up is slower than most companies would find acceptable.

 

1
1
8/16/2023 12:29am
Motofinne wrote:
I wish we could separate the negative comments and people to their own threads about the Stark where they can in a circle complain and find...

I wish we could separate the negative comments and people to their own threads about the Stark where they can in a circle complain and find negative stuff about it. Every time i click on one of these threads they're filled with negativity when it would be nice to have a place where someone could read about the bike and the experience of the bike (since they are obviously shipping them to customers now).

But i guess that is too much to be asked. 

You need to realise that objective commentary is not negativity.

The Stark was touted as the best MX bike ever. 

 

3
2
Motofinne
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8/16/2023 12:35am Edited Date/Time 8/16/2023 12:36am
Motofinne wrote:
I wish we could separate the negative comments and people to their own threads about the Stark where they can in a circle complain and find...

I wish we could separate the negative comments and people to their own threads about the Stark where they can in a circle complain and find negative stuff about it. Every time i click on one of these threads they're filled with negativity when it would be nice to have a place where someone could read about the bike and the experience of the bike (since they are obviously shipping them to customers now).

But i guess that is too much to be asked. 

You need to realise that objective commentary is not negativity.

The Stark was touted as the best MX bike ever. 

 

Haha objective commentary? I see very little objective commentary (also from the overly positive people that are almost a bit cultish). Of course Stark is touting their bike to be the best bike ever, so are all the other OEMs too? Why would you try to sell a race machine for 10k+ and not claim it to be the best. They even fielded all the ICE competitors bikes in the initial media launch because they're so confident.

Sure be critical, but when these freaking threads get flooded by absolute nonsense that drown proper interesting discussion about the bike it becomes very time consuming and frustrating to scroll through these threads and interact in them.

6
1
#434
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Location
DE
8/16/2023 12:42am
In 1984 Honda sold 11,764 CR125s, and 8,472 CR250s in Australia, 38,900 CR125s, and 30,191 CR250s were sold worldwide, Australia was 29% of the world wide...

In 1984 Honda sold 11,764 CR125s, and 8,472 CR250s in Australia, 38,900 CR125s, and 30,191 CR250s were sold worldwide, Australia was 29% of the world wide market. In 40 years the market has shrunk significantly, total global sales of full sized motocross bikes worldwide is 40,000 to 50,000.

Stark's 18,000 preorders must have existing manufacturers concerned, but only if they deliver.

ksithumper wrote:
I'm told Stark production is 200/month in August, and rising rapidly. If true, that's impressive in the current supply chain environment. I'm also hearing of UK dealers...

I'm told Stark production is 200/month in August, and rising rapidly. If true, that's impressive in the current supply chain environment.

I'm also hearing of UK dealers coming under pressure from their existing OEMs to drop the Stark franchise.

The established players are concerned. They will use every trick they can  to prevent,  or at least slow down, national federations' permission for e-bikes to compete in national and international series'.

 

200/month, 18,000 pre-orders, that's 90 months! Starks video showing battery assembly, showed a 10 minute cycle time for one battery pack, the should be capable of...

200/month, 18,000 pre-orders, that's 90 months!

Starks video showing battery assembly, showed a 10 minute cycle time for one battery pack, the should be capable of producing 40-50 bikes per 8 hour shift, they need to be running 2~3 shifts to meet demand.

„They need to need to be running 2~3 shifts to meet demand“

So pretty good production planning by Stark, I‘d say.

2
1
JMX82
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8/16/2023 12:49am
Motofinne wrote:
Haha objective commentary? I see very little objective commentary (also from the overly positive people that are almost a bit cultish). Of course Stark is touting...

Haha objective commentary? I see very little objective commentary (also from the overly positive people that are almost a bit cultish). Of course Stark is touting their bike to be the best bike ever, so are all the other OEMs too? Why would you try to sell a race machine for 10k+ and not claim it to be the best. They even fielded all the ICE competitors bikes in the initial media launch because they're so confident.

Sure be critical, but when these freaking threads get flooded by absolute nonsense that drown proper interesting discussion about the bike it becomes very time consuming and frustrating to scroll through these threads and interact in them.

I think the same people are telling in Triumph threads that the new Triumph motocross bike will be total junk even before the bike has been released only by judging few photos released from the engine and the frame Laughing

I guess they are afraid of everything new that is introduced to the sport and that their beloved Japanese manufactured bike might not be the latest and greatest technology anymore....  

6
djr
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GB
8/16/2023 1:38am
Motofinne wrote:
I wish we could separate the negative comments and people to their own threads about the Stark where they can in a circle complain and find...

I wish we could separate the negative comments and people to their own threads about the Stark where they can in a circle complain and find negative stuff about it. Every time i click on one of these threads they're filled with negativity when it would be nice to have a place where someone could read about the bike and the experience of the bike (since they are obviously shipping them to customers now).

But i guess that is too much to be asked. 

There are not many comments about the experience of the bike simply because they haven't delivered many yet.

Not many bikes = not many people to comment on the riding experience

As more bikes get delivered, then there will be more comments on the experience, I expect most will be positive ,but you may get the odd honest comment about a fault with the bike , would you prefer if these comments were deleted as they could be seen as negative ?

As for negativity, with things like the Moto vert test , would you prefer if the overheating issue they had was not mentioned ? ( it could be regarded as negative)

Do you just want the Stark/influencer /shill positive propaganda

 

3
1
GrapeApe
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Mc Kinney, TX, USA
8/16/2023 4:53am
Motofinne wrote:
I wish we could separate the negative comments and people to their own threads about the Stark where they can in a circle complain and find...

I wish we could separate the negative comments and people to their own threads about the Stark where they can in a circle complain and find negative stuff about it. Every time i click on one of these threads they're filled with negativity when it would be nice to have a place where someone could read about the bike and the experience of the bike (since they are obviously shipping them to customers now).

But i guess that is too much to be asked. 

You need to realise that objective commentary is not negativity.

The Stark was touted as the best MX bike ever. 

 

Motofinne wrote:
Haha objective commentary? I see very little objective commentary (also from the overly positive people that are almost a bit cultish). Of course Stark is touting...

Haha objective commentary? I see very little objective commentary (also from the overly positive people that are almost a bit cultish). Of course Stark is touting their bike to be the best bike ever, so are all the other OEMs too? Why would you try to sell a race machine for 10k+ and not claim it to be the best. They even fielded all the ICE competitors bikes in the initial media launch because they're so confident.

Sure be critical, but when these freaking threads get flooded by absolute nonsense that drown proper interesting discussion about the bike it becomes very time consuming and frustrating to scroll through these threads and interact in them.

To be fair most of the negativity comes from a small handful of posters. It seems like more because they keep getting clicked and coming back with new accounts. "RobertCoates350" has had at least 5 screen names since the Stark was announced, and with each one he just squats in Stark and Deegan threads.

1
BCE
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NL
8/16/2023 5:11am

I don't know if anyone else noticed,
but initially the stark bike's price was including VAT.
Now all off a sudden it's excluded.
Here in the Netherlands that's a extra 21%.
I even double checked this when they first announced the bike for pre order.

 

This was their respons:

Thank you for contacting the Support Department.

The price is including VAT. We can not exclude VAT if you are not a dealer.

Please if you have any questions, comments or concerns during the process, let us know.

Thank you.

Kind Regards.

Mike Lorenzo.

Customer Service Manager

On Wed, 15 Dec 2021 at 15:42, <support@starkfuture.com> wrote:

 

Post a reply to: Stark Vargs (as in plural)

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