Listened to Weege’s pod yesterday, and I couldn’t agree more with his point about the classes being all fucked up these days. There is way too many of them, they separate the talent so much that we really have no idea who the best is at any level at the ranch anymore. IMO we need to cut a bunch of them, forcing the talent to show what they can do against different aged riders and on different sized bikes. For example, if there was only 1 Mini Sr class, 1 super mini, and 1 125 schoolboy, then those riders wouldn’t be able to specialize on 1 bike and race the exact same guys in 2 classes. Some guys would race a 85 and supermini, or a supermini and 125, or maybe even a 125 against 250fs in the schoolboy 2 class as well. Here’s what I came up with:
1-4. Keep the 50s the same I think they have that part right.
5-6. 65 7-9 & 65 10-11 only need 2, if jr is fast enough he can also race 85 or a 50 if he’s that young.
7-9. 85 9-11, 85 11-13, Mini Sr. 12-15 kids can race different age groups instead of the same age group in a stock, then a mod class. I’d allow big wheels in Mini Sr but still 85s only.
10. SUPERMINI 12-16 No not 1 or 2, just freakin supermini. This is the one class where you can run a big bore 85, can not pigeon hole into being a supermini specialist. If they want to do this they’ll have to race another bike in another class as well if you’re doing 2.
11-12. 125 C and Schoolboy 1 I understand the need for some beginner classes. But we’re eliminating 125 bc 12-17, it’s the exact same thing as schoolboy 1. Now, if you wanna race your 125 twice you’ll have to do it against 4 strokes or hop on a 250f in another class.
13-14. Girls 11-16 & WMX they have these right
15. schoolboy 2 great class, hopefully we’d get some top 125 guys like wood and robbins this year to mix it up more
16-17. 250 & 450 C we do not need endless amounts of C classes. I get it sometimes a C rider does make it to pro, but it’s rare. With these 2 and 125 C they still have plenty of options. Eliminate the 250 C junior as well it just promotes sandbagging.
18-19 250 & 450 B the younger guys have schoolboy and the older ones have college so they still have options, just not SO many options so that they can’t hide from competition anymore. Also I’d make a rule that if you get top 10 overall in one of these 2 you are moved up to A.
20. college 17-24 no change
21-22. 250 & 450 A/pro sport no change
23. + 25 Here’s where I think big change needs to happen, guys like Keefer and Riddle should not get lumped in with the Browns of the world because they accomplished the huge goal of scoring a couple of points in their pro career. So I’d make a 100 point rule, if you scored that many in a career, you were a legit pro. Therefore the only vet class you are eligible for is +25. Wanna do a 2nd class? Race 250 or 450 PRO sport.
24. +30 sportsman. Make it so you’re ineligible for this class if you’ve ever made the fast 40. This is for guys who didn’t make it to pro, but are still fast. But sorry +45 guys with the rule change your class isn’t really needed anymore.
25-26. +40 &+50 Call em the Keefer classes. As long as you scored less than 100 points you’re eligible.
This structure tightens everyone up. No more hiding. You wanna show up to the ranch? Get ready for some competition no more trophy hunting. If DC can’t handle the financial loss, allow 80 guys in certain classes to qualify out of regionals and make the first motos a qualifier.
I've never understood the need for a 450 C class. If you're a C rider do you really need to be riding a 450? Just leave them with a 250 C class.
Get rid of all C classes.
don’t underhand why there is vet classes at the amateur national either. Maybe have just 25+
maybe get rid of the women classes too
or just leave it the way it is. Never going to make everyone happy
Race promotion is a business.
Promoters, like most people, like money.
More classes, more money.
I'm a prime example - signed up for 4 classes for Unadilla amateur days. And they are all vet classes.
C classes definitely need an overhaul. There are 8 classes a young C rider can qualify for. Its asking for sandbagging. 125 junior is exactly the same as Schoolboy1. Eliminate that class, change 125C to 125 Open, and swap out 250C junior for maybe a Vet 25+ Expert class.
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I might be in the minority, but I think Loretta's should be reserved for a focus on small bikes (125 and down). My only exception would be allowing 250 B and 250 A (Pro Sport). I see no reason their should be C classes at LL. I'd also eliminate any 450 classes at the event. I'd also allow a +25 class but only on 250 or smaller.
As for the Vet classes, I might suggest running those in a separate event (Vet Nationals).
50 classes should be
Micro 1 3-5, Micro 2 4-6, Micro E 5-7, Micro 3 7-8
I don’t think the event is focused on finding talent anymore than it is about about making $$$. Good luck ripping away all that area, regional, and actual Loretta’s revenue that those classes bring in. I bet if you got your wish the remaining classes and also track fee’s would skyrocket to account for the lost revenue they’ve gotten accustomed to. I agree that there’s too many classes, just can’t ever see them trimming it back, it seems like the program only grows.
I know there are a couple of people inside OEM and amateur programs that would like to see Supermini classes go away, and just replace them with 85 big wheels. We're the only one that really races Superminis, they don't bother with it in Europe, or other major country series. They're very, very expensive to operate and practice on. It's near impossible to fund running a year on them unless you have serious help.
I was talking to the dad of one of the Supermini title kids and he mentioned they were lucky to get 10 hours out of a Supermini all year, and that's the class they focused on all year.
Do we need a 25+ Vet class when guys are racing over that age in the fastest pro championships on the planet?
Not aimed at you bro but it seems crazy to me where a lot of people are drawing the "vet" line nowadays.
Get rid of every non youth class. Everything above 25 + should be eliminated if the goal of Loretta’s is to get kids ready for the big leagues.
50cc can be same
65cc 7-9 and open
85cc 7-11 and 11-15
125 Schoolboy 12-15 on Two strokes
250 Youth 12-15 Four Strokes
250 B and A
450 B and A
There you go, still too many classes but gets rid of all the BS.
Personally I don’t mind all the Vet classes, as a Emig fan it’s cool to see him again. But if the goal is to make good pros then trim the fat. Or make it one day of Youth and then Vet and switch like that.
Can't comment on mini stuff but I'll share my vet class restructure.
+25 Vet Pro
+30
+40
+45
+50 Vet Pro (my original suggestion had this as a no fast 40 class too, but I've reconsidered)
Vet Pro if you've made fast 40, the others if you havent.
I like keefer, but I can't get on board with your 100 point rule..
But, nothing will change. They'll have an excuse for everything. Gotta cater to their buddies.
I think the vet classes hold an important place, because without that, you'd have fast older riders taking away top finishing positions from kids in A and B trying to compete for sponsors and rides in the pro ranks.
Although there is way too many, I feel like C class does have a place and should remain. Guys like McGrath, Ronnie Mac, Doug Henry, and Dowd all raced C class at some point because they didn’t really have minicycle careers. I wouldn’t mind seeing supermini eliminated as well but sometimes the racing is really good in that class, that’s why I’d leave 1.
I’ve never understood C Class at all for an amateur National. Local races of course they are fine.
”C Class National Champion”
Huh?
Right, then every year the parents are posting that the kid is one of the fastest 42 riders in the country………but it’s the C class…….
I'm with you on this. I think the biggest issue with the C class, besides sandbagging, is that the C class throughout the country is completely different. Some areas it's considered the beginner class, other areas like the west coast C is a very small step behind B and WC has it's own beginner class(sometimes called D).
This ^^
LL should be a feeder to becoming a pro….then make it two events—> Amateur championship and Vet championship
Put age limits on the 250 and 450 classes- like 25 yrs old.
I take it you've never seen a C class Loretta's kid? A while back I was at my local track (Pax in Fl) on a practice day I was out doing my laps and noticed a kid that was ripping. After about 5 laps I pulled off by the grandstands because I wanted to check this kid out from an elevated position. I see someone timing him. Turns out it was his dad, and the kid was a LL's C class champion. Any of us that ride dirt bikes know when we see talent and it was obvious the kid had pro potential even though he had just got out of the C class a couple months before. For anyone thinking it's not worth having a C class there, exhibit A should be Jeremy McGrath.
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Age groups need scrapped period. 85 novice and expert like back in the day. Who cares if a kid is younger if he rips he needs to be with other kids that rip. That's how it should be across the board all the way down to local and all sizes. Promoters need to start advancing people again.
I mean if a kid is impressing you that much like you said he did … He probably shouldn’t be in the C Class. Lol.
450 class should be a 450 class not just another 250 class. I don't like how 250F's are in the 450class.
I don’t follow the C class, but I would guess the top 10 plus kids in the C class would have qualified in the B class. Which makes the C class even more pointless.
I’m sure when McGrath raced the C class, he could have qualified for the B class
C class riders at lorettas are. Local A class riders speed.
Not quite, there good B riders. Unless your A class is way off.
My only issue with the C class is that these kids ruin it for the actual C class kids at the local level. Why not allow them to run B locally since that's usually where they slot in, and maybe change the C class name to something else but keep the structure the same, a class for kids that never made it on minis.
Tracks , riders vary.
Don't tell them how much more money they would make with D, E, and F classes!
happens up here all the time, you can tell when lorretas c class guys are out of town shuffles everyone else up a bit.
"a couple of people inside OEM and amateur programs that would like to see Supermini classes go away" - those people were probably not Austrian.. lol
People only get 10 hrs on a Supermini because everyone of them thinks they absolutely have to have a full blown Lynks 112 engine in order to compete (3 of them for rotation, actually.. lol). Most of them would be better off riding a bolt-on 105 most of the year and saving the 112 just for the big races. The power difference is not as much as people like to make it out to be. Oh, don't forget a pallet of MRX-02. Have to have that also...
Not sure why everyone is always complaining about this. They essentially have it set up so that you can potentially qualify for 2 classes on a bike instead of for example - little billy has to have a 250F and 125. Instead he can just run a 125 in 2 classes.
It's fun to see who the best 125 rider is. I enjoy seeing the rich dads blow 15K on a supermini and seeing who can just make the craziest rocket of a bike out there. The dads that have the money to throw away run the class. The guys that don't just skip it. How is it hurting anyone else to let them run it? Shit, i enjoy watching the C class carnage. They should change the requirements for C class but i like the class. Hell there was a kid there in C class with multiple national titles in Arenacross. That ain't a C rider.... Frankly the top 5 of C class are easily 10-20 place riders in most of the B classes. Like someone else said, every C rider on the gate likely dominates most of the local B riders in their areas. But this happens in all sports.
Basically i don't have any issues with the amount of classes. It's a cool sport and we want as many people in it and dumping money in to it as possible. Restructuring some of the requirements in various classes would be fine though.
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