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You sure seem defensive. Definitely not an unbiased voice in this thread. Coming off pretty sensitive about this bike.
Nuclear one you mean ? Ursula is trying to killing it 😉
If your interest is only performance and that's the best bike and you don't care about "the eco religious thing" (Varg for sure push it in front), and maybe you think that eco or green is not so green or eco i am totally agree with you.
But take care, in some months or years in europe they will call you a terrorist or put you in jail 😅😂
I have a hard time figuring out #434's profile. From what he wrote in the last pages, he wants the fastest bike available to come down from Germany to Italy and ride two 15 minutes moto. Certainely not your average rider.
I have an August 31st listed date. I was told over the phone that it will be close, that if it's not that date, it will be somewhere near that date.
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Have you been asked to pay yet? I haven't. I also have an August 31 date and was told it will be at least a few weeks late.
Local tracks around here have 20 minute sessions for practice days. Very few people come close to the full twenty minutes out on the track. Races are usually 4-5 laps. Pro class might be 20-25 minutes. But not always. Never are they 30+2 for normal local races. 👍
Nah, I just like to argue.
The 25 minute runtime with a pro level rider ,really should not be a surprise to ANYBODY that has looked into these bikes. Its been known that its not up to a pro at 30 minutes. I do not think its crazy to turn the power down and see if its faster than a 450 still. As far as lap times go. I mean if its clearly way more powerful, why not turn it down to be similar to the levels of power the 450 has. It would be interesting, and I would bet that riders with less skill, would see a bigger reduction on their laptmes than a top pro will. The more often you find yourself in the wrong gear, or RPM. The more often you have to slip your clutch, The less that will happen on an electric bike. Recovering from a mistake should be faster and easier too given the style of power.
The advantages of Electric are not the top HP output. That's just the eye candy. The powerband of electric is what makes it so rideable. Not having to be in the correct gear and RPM to have that max power. You have all the HP and torque pretty much at any RPM. So mistakes are not amplified . Think 2 stroke powerband VS 4 stroke. How its easier to keep the 4 stroke in the power. Well Electric is just alway right there. And You can tune it much easier. After people get used to and learn about them. They are really much more simple than a gas engine. And much less to go wrong.
To the guy saying a tank swap was not comparable to buying a bigger battery.. Think of how expensive a gas tank would be if You paid for say 50% of the Gas You would use for its lifetime. I've got no idea of a real breakdown. But a friends Tesla model 3 gets around 300 miles from $15-20 on the high side of charging. I do not know what he cost per KW would be for an average generator , but I'm sure somebody could figure this all out. The point is that you can not compare the price for a battery to a gas tank as equal. Swapping a tank to a bigger size and bigger battery , I get that. But the price part would have to factor in the large fuel savings you get by purchasing a less expensive way of storing the energy than Gas is.
I have never been to a race that the pits were not already full of generators running. Motorhomes with AC on, or heat. Perhaps You may have to turn off your ac wile charging the Varg. Or skip the microwaved pizza. But A generator can become the next Gascan. People who ride MTB's don't say that their bikes are faster, and superior since they do not have to bring a gas can to go riding. Although I have had people say how its great to ride an Emtb VS a d gas dirtbike going trail riding. With the EMTB or regular MTB . You have almost 0 to do after an average ride. Plug the Ebike in , maybe lube the chain. An electric MX bike is similar.
Yes there will be things it can not do, or can not do as well. So it will be great to learn what those are , so people can be happy with their purchase. Hard core pros Like Goldmember can stick to Gas bikes so they can run their 45 +3 lap races with 13 red flag restarts. And for people who the Varg will work for, they will have a great time. And The next gen Varg will be better and better. If its already very close to a gas bike with its weak points. But is also better in many other ways, The bike can only get better.
Yeah, I like to go fast and want the fastest bike (laptime, not power). I‘m decent on a bike but have no more stamina, so 15 min motos is what I do.
I live in southern Germany and it’s a five hour drive to Ottobiano.
I think that’s pretty average. So what’s so hard to figure out?
At least I don’t have delusions of grandeur and think that I‘m as fast and hard on bikes as pro..
You mean Stark is deliberately lying on its website?
Didn't they say the runtime was up to 6 Hours ??? Unless they changed it from the last time I looked. They never said anything about a Pro level rider getting a 30+ 2 . I am pretty sure that Bryan (the first customer) said that Tortelli was saying that 30+ 2 for a active pro speed rider was not realistic in most conditions right now. I would not say it is a lie. Is it a lie that Red Bull will not really make me grow wings ? I think anybody that watched one of the videos Bryan did. Or read any of his posts people would have an idea of what they could expect for runtime. You can get a range of 6 hours to less than 30 minutes from a Gas bike too. I think anybody who rides will know they burn less gas on a trail ride than a sandtrack moto. And would expect a battery powered vehicle to have a similar things impact range. It might not impact it exactly the same. But the less you are wideopen , the less power You'll use.
Perhaps Stark should have taken an average runtime from an MX track and given that. Since it is a Motocross bike and not a trail bike. But maybe there are conditions that You can get 6 hours of runtime.
Electric Logging trucks happen to be able to make as much power as they use with their regenerative braking. Going up the mountain they are empty, coming down they are much much heavier . And depending on the routes they take, they could possible never need to be charged during the day. Perhaps there is some MX track that has some steep downhills, and an easy way back to the top . That allows the Varg to make enough power to get to that 6 hours. Its a stretch though. So perhaps up to 6 hours might be a little misleading , but not a lie.
Good point. Maybe a handful of times a year, if not less.
Check my quote of their site on the previous page.
We paid when we got the email we all got a few weeks back that said "hey your bike is getting close to production, payment releases it". So by the time I got the call, the bike was already paid for.
When did this become about the "average rider" and him "only doing a few laps anyway"?
It's always being about Starks marketing hype (read lies). I like the Varg and it's definitely a bike I'd look at a few models down the track, but outright lies should always be called out.
So start calling out just about every manufacturer of everything. Other than missing deadlines I fail to see lies. All of my posts have always said the average rider . Honda is not making any money if they just build bikes for Jett. As far as I know there are no gas powered vehicles that you can operate on the moon. And that doesn't matter to anybody because nobody is riding on the moon. If a street bike can not hit whoops is a scam. No You just buy the bike that fits what you need. And from the start, I have been saying that for the average to below average rider, the bike will make them much faster.
The reasons stock suspension on KTMs are not great is because its made for the average rider. The widest range of rider who will be the target audience. Its not because they just do not want to make the bike work perfect for everybody. They could and do make suspension that is amazing when its made for a specific rider.
Runtime is the only thing that is makes it not work for top pros. But take a look at a factory Honda and ask yourself if they spent more than the 7K people are saying it would cost to make it last a 30+2 moto. There is more $$ in Ti. . A good privateer bike can be $50k if we are talking about what it takes to make a bike for a pro.
When Chad Reed was on Hondas , running production based bikes. He had bought more than 1 bike per round of SX. The transmissions on stock bikes would not hold up to SX whoops. And he was destroying them.
NONE of the top guys run a stock bike. most of the people I know with a KTM run cone valve forks and the matching shocks. No bike will ever be perfect. Many bikes with Stock gas tanks run out of gas at Southwick in the 450 class. Top factory teams.
Yah the range needs work, Maybe the cooling if your going to be riding in hot weather and are very fast .
If you want to sell a bike, you build it to work for the average person. You would have to be totally isolated from anything other than the Stark website main image of the bike to think Your going to get 6 hours of runtime at a pro level speed. And not asked anybody any questions.
People are crazy with some of the extremes . Even the article that got the anti vargers fired up repeats the same points about its handling and traction, power etc. , that people have said other places only said because they were biased . Yes the overheating is a bummer, and the issues it sounds like they had. But so far nobody has read the entire article that has posted here.
Yes the site now says UP TO 6 hours of EASY trail riding OR a MXGP Heat . I do not follow MXGP that well but I thought that they still called the main races Motos. and the race a GP. SO what exactly is an MXGP Heat? is it a moto? Or the qualifying race they hold the day before that is 6 laps?
I think that is pretty honest. They are saying the MAX runtime. Max runtimes, MPG's , HP ratings etc. are all normally measured under perfect conditions. Conditions designed to achieve the best performance possible.
So giving you the benefit of assuming they mean a Moto with a Pro rider riding that's saying that in the best conditions that favor the Varg, somebody that can ride fast enough to qualify for an MXGP heat ( assuming a heat is a 30+2 moto and not the 6 lap qualifier races ), can run long enough to finish it. That is the MAX amount of time You can expect to get .
It did not say BETWEEN an easy 6 hour trail ride and an MXGP Moto. It did not say that the minimum runtime was a MXGP heat. It said the MAX. I don't see how that is a lie.
To prove it wrong you need to go to a track with perfect conditions for the Varg and run laptimes of the last place guy that finished a Heat. And prove that there are NOT any conditions that would allow that to happen.
I think that for the average person who will be buying one, they will get 30 to 40 ish minutes of riding from a charge on a motocross track. So that is right around the time a MXGP moto is. I think that maybe they should have under promised a little on the runtime and over delivered. Maybe some people might be confused when they read it and misunderstand it the way its written. But its not a lie.
You can bloviate until the cows come home. The Stark is advertised as The Best MX Bike Ever. It's not. It doesn't even qualify as a pro level machine.
It's obvious now to the punters that with a pro on board it cannot get anywhere near the run time for a single 30 plus 2, let alone the two 30 plus 2 Motos an hour or so apart that comprise a MXGP/AMA round.
The run time impossibility would have been obvious to Stark boffins, and so would have the other nasty, irresolvable, problems, like the overheating now being reported.
Pit Row
Don't know but when i was riding i was going to the track half day or the all day and was doing multiples 15 minutes sessions. i rode maybe 2h of cumulative time
I am very surprised that a lot o you claim that their almost never doing moto more than 1/2h 😲
An italian reseller claims you can order one and get it in about 3 weeks.
Don't know anyone who's buying it so cannot confirm. Hopefully I will see one at the track near them when it happens.
Ok, if it happens
;-)
An MXGP "heat" actually doesn't exist, which shows how much Stark knows what they're talking about.
Theres's a qualifying race and two motos.
Anyway, who would want to do a GP qualifying race knowing he won't be able to finish the motos? Your own demonstration shows finishing the race would be a miracle.
The point is Stark pretends the Varg can be a racer's weapon of choice and it's not.
By the way, I don't even think it would be allowed in the race, right now. It's just marketing bs.
Right now, the official delivery date on Stark's website is january 2025.
I want to know how much commission some of the pro-Stark cronies are earning from Stark on their continuous excuse mission of trying to deflect the bs that Stark has actually claimed? There are a few guys on here that can compete with Karine Jean-Pierre on totally ignoring what has been stated and forming a total lie into a colorful unicorn style pretty picture lol.
Okay Starks advertisement and marketing was “off” a little bit from reality.
That has been established and thank you for that. We all accept they won’t last a PRO 30min +2 moto.
Meanwhile, the bike looks really cool for a large % of riders and when the new eMX classes are established with shorter run times or runtimes that most locals run anyways duration won’t be a problem.
I dont have one on order and I’m to old and beat up ride MX anymore but how cool is new tech for Mx and glimpses of the future to come for eMX.
So to recap, when you get mad at Starks claim and ePowered bikes on the track with you for practice just remember to take a deep breath and remember they won’t be pulling holeshots in your MX class on race day. It’s okay, it’s just something new.
Almost like all the auto manufacturers lie about their mpg’s. It’s not technically a lie when all circumstances are right it is actually true. Get off your high horse lol.
Stark has inconspicuously adjusted their specs, and moved their goalposts, AGAIN.
An MXGP "Heat" is about 25 minutes. It's called a Qualifying race, and is held the day before the actual race. Make no mistake about it, Stark knows this and intentionally used the misnomer "Heat".
So now we've gone from original specs of 242 pounds and a full length MXGP moto (35 minutes) to 260 pounds and 25 minutes. And the PR spin back in May made it sound like you were getting a free gift with that larger, HEAVIER battery.
This is not hate against Stark or eBikes. As a consumer, I don't like being taken for a chump, and Stark needs to be called out on their continual BS.
For now, I still feel a used YZ 250 and a 5 gallon jug in the back of the pick-up would guarantee a better day to the "average rider".
Just my two cents.
It's a lot worse than that.
It is the thin edge of a bright green wedge, a verdant Trojan horse slowly transporting a nasty, nutty, hugely destructive Marxist globalist warming ideology into MX's midst.
Greta, legislators, useful idiots: "there are now very suitable battery machines out there. Why do we need noisy, smelly, fossil fueled dirt bikes at all?
With guys like you in charge, we‘d still be riding a horse to work!
You probably think of yourself as an average moto guy… but you’re not. All the pre orders show that people want cool new shit and the Varg is cool new shit. Even if it won’t last a moto with pro on it.
And always remember: you don’t have to buy one
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