Masterpool!

kijen
Posts
1230
Joined
10/1/2010
Location
Jacksonville, FL, USA
7/10/2023 5:18am
This argument is the same every time we have a privateer stepping up in outdoors.  First, some of you guys think the factories have unlimited pots...

This argument is the same every time we have a privateer stepping up in outdoors.  First, some of you guys think the factories have unlimited pots of cash, and they don't.  "Throw him 120K to be an outdoor test rider and then let him choose what races to do"......give him a factory bike now (how much does that cost for a mechanic, parts budget, availability of resources)......dump AC for him when they are basically finishing together and AC is struggling with grip issues.  

 

Second, It's great to root for the underdog and the guy doing it out of his van, but there is a reason Ty is out of his van.  He has had the factory rides and been on other teams and now he is not.  There is always a reason.  Family hard to deal with?  He hard to deal with?  SX skills or desire to race SX?  He was offered an MXGP ride and didn't want to go?  

 

All that said, I think he should be offered a fill in ride for Webb or Barcia, but maybe he has been offered that?  Either way, Teams are not stupid, they have budgets to deal with, and Masterpool needs to prove he can add value to a Team and a few great rides is only part of proving that.

 

You really think Kawis budget of $120k and bonuses is even a problem. That’s pennie’s to them.    Kawi has rows of factory bikes just sitting...

You really think Kawis budget of $120k and bonuses is even a problem. That’s pennie’s to them. 
 

Kawi has rows of factory bikes just sitting in Cali. 
 

We are not talking million dollar contracts here. 
 

Haul is bike, pay his transportation and give him bikes and parts. That again, cost very little for Kawi. 
 

When a privateer pulls holeshots and beats your factory riders that’s where you start to loose money from Kawis point of view. 
 

It looks really bad with all Kawis “assets” getting beat. The “CEO” of Kawi is not happy with the racing team, would you as CEO?Board meeting at Kawi HQ Mx team are not fun right now. 

stremme12 wrote:
I'm curious how it makes them lose money? Ty is riding a Kawasaki as well. To me that should make the bike look great and the...

I'm curious how it makes them lose money? Ty is riding a Kawasaki as well. To me that should make the bike look great and the riders less prepared. 

If a basically stock bike is beating factory bikes, then sort of makes me think factory bikes and all the cool things they do is a waste of money, goes past the bike, is the big high doller rig really neccesassry, or is all for show?

1
mxb2
Posts
22437
Joined
6/15/2010
Location
Bowie, MD, USA
7/10/2023 5:18am
You really think Kawis budget of $120k and bonuses is even a problem. That’s pennie’s to them.    Kawi has rows of factory bikes just sitting...

You really think Kawis budget of $120k and bonuses is even a problem. That’s pennie’s to them. 
 

Kawi has rows of factory bikes just sitting in Cali. 
 

We are not talking million dollar contracts here. 
 

Haul is bike, pay his transportation and give him bikes and parts. That again, cost very little for Kawi. 
 

When a privateer pulls holeshots and beats your factory riders that’s where you start to loose money from Kawis point of view. 
 

It looks really bad with all Kawis “assets” getting beat. The “CEO” of Kawi is not happy with the racing team, would you as CEO?Board meeting at Kawi HQ Mx team are not fun right now. 

stremme12 wrote:
I'm curious how it makes them lose money? Ty is riding a Kawasaki as well. To me that should make the bike look great and the...

I'm curious how it makes them lose money? Ty is riding a Kawasaki as well. To me that should make the bike look great and the riders less prepared. 

Lose money by dumping money into a team that gets beat by a privateer on a “stock” bike.    Would you be happy as CEO if...

Lose money by dumping money into a team that gets beat by a privateer on a “stock” bike. 
 

Would you be happy as CEO if that was your results after investment?

Now your stock bike beating Factory’s is great. Your investment in Factory team is not. 

How many millions did hrc invest in kroc to win a title?   

stremme12
Posts
1221
Joined
3/10/2015
Location
HA, HI, USA
7/10/2023 5:26am
You really think Kawis budget of $120k and bonuses is even a problem. That’s pennie’s to them.    Kawi has rows of factory bikes just sitting...

You really think Kawis budget of $120k and bonuses is even a problem. That’s pennie’s to them. 
 

Kawi has rows of factory bikes just sitting in Cali. 
 

We are not talking million dollar contracts here. 
 

Haul is bike, pay his transportation and give him bikes and parts. That again, cost very little for Kawi. 
 

When a privateer pulls holeshots and beats your factory riders that’s where you start to loose money from Kawis point of view. 
 

It looks really bad with all Kawis “assets” getting beat. The “CEO” of Kawi is not happy with the racing team, would you as CEO?Board meeting at Kawi HQ Mx team are not fun right now. 

stremme12 wrote:
I'm curious how it makes them lose money? Ty is riding a Kawasaki as well. To me that should make the bike look great and the...

I'm curious how it makes them lose money? Ty is riding a Kawasaki as well. To me that should make the bike look great and the riders less prepared. 

Lose money by dumping money into a team that gets beat by a privateer on a “stock” bike.    Would you be happy as CEO if...

Lose money by dumping money into a team that gets beat by a privateer on a “stock” bike. 
 

Would you be happy as CEO if that was your results after investment?

Now your stock bike beating Factory’s is great. Your investment in Factory team is not. 

Well they care enough about Ty doing well that they lent him a motor when they didn't have to. 

8tensolutions
Posts
3538
Joined
11/15/2009
Location
Salt Lake City, UT, USA
7/10/2023 5:53am
This argument is the same every time we have a privateer stepping up in outdoors.  First, some of you guys think the factories have unlimited pots...

This argument is the same every time we have a privateer stepping up in outdoors.  First, some of you guys think the factories have unlimited pots of cash, and they don't.  "Throw him 120K to be an outdoor test rider and then let him choose what races to do"......give him a factory bike now (how much does that cost for a mechanic, parts budget, availability of resources)......dump AC for him when they are basically finishing together and AC is struggling with grip issues.  

 

Second, It's great to root for the underdog and the guy doing it out of his van, but there is a reason Ty is out of his van.  He has had the factory rides and been on other teams and now he is not.  There is always a reason.  Family hard to deal with?  He hard to deal with?  SX skills or desire to race SX?  He was offered an MXGP ride and didn't want to go?  

 

All that said, I think he should be offered a fill in ride for Webb or Barcia, but maybe he has been offered that?  Either way, Teams are not stupid, they have budgets to deal with, and Masterpool needs to prove he can add value to a Team and a few great rides is only part of proving that.

 

You really think Kawis budget of $120k and bonuses is even a problem. That’s pennie’s to them.    Kawi has rows of factory bikes just sitting...

You really think Kawis budget of $120k and bonuses is even a problem. That’s pennie’s to them. 
 

Kawi has rows of factory bikes just sitting in Cali. 
 

We are not talking million dollar contracts here. 
 

Haul is bike, pay his transportation and give him bikes and parts. That again, cost very little for Kawi. 
 

When a privateer pulls holeshots and beats your factory riders that’s where you start to loose money from Kawis point of view. 
 

It looks really bad with all Kawis “assets” getting beat. The “CEO” of Kawi is not happy with the racing team, would you as CEO?Board meeting at Kawi HQ Mx team are not fun right now. 

Lol.  You clearly have no clue how business works.  

The Shop

MXRalph
Posts
413
Joined
11/13/2022
Location
Sacramento, CA, USA
7/10/2023 6:37am
This argument is the same every time we have a privateer stepping up in outdoors.  First, some of you guys think the factories have unlimited pots...

This argument is the same every time we have a privateer stepping up in outdoors.  First, some of you guys think the factories have unlimited pots of cash, and they don't.  "Throw him 120K to be an outdoor test rider and then let him choose what races to do"......give him a factory bike now (how much does that cost for a mechanic, parts budget, availability of resources)......dump AC for him when they are basically finishing together and AC is struggling with grip issues.  

 

Second, It's great to root for the underdog and the guy doing it out of his van, but there is a reason Ty is out of his van.  He has had the factory rides and been on other teams and now he is not.  There is always a reason.  Family hard to deal with?  He hard to deal with?  SX skills or desire to race SX?  He was offered an MXGP ride and didn't want to go?  

 

All that said, I think he should be offered a fill in ride for Webb or Barcia, but maybe he has been offered that?  Either way, Teams are not stupid, they have budgets to deal with, and Masterpool needs to prove he can add value to a Team and a few great rides is only part of proving that.

 

You really think Kawis budget of $120k and bonuses is even a problem. That’s pennie’s to them.    Kawi has rows of factory bikes just sitting...

You really think Kawis budget of $120k and bonuses is even a problem. That’s pennie’s to them. 
 

Kawi has rows of factory bikes just sitting in Cali. 
 

We are not talking million dollar contracts here. 
 

Haul is bike, pay his transportation and give him bikes and parts. That again, cost very little for Kawi. 
 

When a privateer pulls holeshots and beats your factory riders that’s where you start to loose money from Kawis point of view. 
 

It looks really bad with all Kawis “assets” getting beat. The “CEO” of Kawi is not happy with the racing team, would you as CEO?Board meeting at Kawi HQ Mx team are not fun right now. 

Lol.  You clearly have no clue how business works.  

I think you're the one that doesn't understand how these big companies work. They could give him everything he needs to finish the year and it's a write-off for them, they just write it off.

1
2
davistld01
Posts
9325
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Springfield, MO, USA
7/10/2023 6:38am
stremme12 wrote:
I'm curious how it makes them lose money? Ty is riding a Kawasaki as well. To me that should make the bike look great and the...

I'm curious how it makes them lose money? Ty is riding a Kawasaki as well. To me that should make the bike look great and the riders less prepared. 

Lose money by dumping money into a team that gets beat by a privateer on a “stock” bike.    Would you be happy as CEO if...

Lose money by dumping money into a team that gets beat by a privateer on a “stock” bike. 
 

Would you be happy as CEO if that was your results after investment?

Now your stock bike beating Factory’s is great. Your investment in Factory team is not. 

stremme12 wrote:

Well they care enough about Ty doing well that they lent him a motor when they didn't have to. 

Yeah...but in a way, they had to. It was a "save face" gesture. Ty has smoked their big-buck team members the majority of rounds so far, by simply outriding them on a bike that is basically a well setup stocker with a pipe and worked suspension. Not a good look for Kawie to be sure. 

2
zookrider62!
Posts
6825
Joined
12/22/2008
Location
Plano, TX, USA
7/10/2023 7:38am

I'm very lost on all of these dump AC for Masterpool posts. It's already established that Ty is not a factor indoors, but he is currently losing to the guy you are saying to replace him with outdoors. 

Even if you drop round 1, AC still has more points than Masterpool. Is the thought that if Masterpool was on ACs bike that he would magically be challenging Chase and Jett? We've seen plenty of fill-ins, and they have never become race win threats, or even podium threats.

4
1
Trickamoto
Posts
677
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2/6/2018
Location
Beverly Hills, CA, USA
7/10/2023 7:57am

Can't argue with that. But how is he indoors? 

One word....Terrible!! It's too bad.

1
Kyle978
Posts
1742
Joined
10/7/2013
Location
Dirt, NM, USA
7/10/2023 8:29am
kijen wrote:
If a basically stock bike is beating factory bikes, then sort of makes me think factory bikes and all the cool things they do is a...

If a basically stock bike is beating factory bikes, then sort of makes me think factory bikes and all the cool things they do is a waste of money, goes past the bike, is the big high doller rig really neccesassry, or is all for show?

I did the 2016 SX season as a mechanic with Cole Martinez when he rode for BPR/Home Depot Yamaha. 

Cole lived in a house in Murrieta with Cooper Webb at the time, and that was essentially our race shop. I had a plastic folding table, small toolbox and air compressor. His practice bike had OEM KYB suspension converted to air by Enzo, a pipe, Vortex ignition and complete clutch. Everything else was completely stock. I did all practice bike work in that garage - 2 top ends, no bottom ends, all chassis work besides suspension rebuilds. We rode at the Yamaha track with Star (Cooper Webb, Plessinger, Alex Martin, Jeremy Martin, Mitchell Harrison at the time) and he would be faster than Harrison almost every day, and sometimes faster than Alex on a bone stock engine. He couldn't even triple into one of the rhythm sections. 

For the "race bike", it had Enzo A-kit air and not much else chassis wise - cut subframe and that's about it. Engine was built by Dasa, but was less than an amateur spec engine. It was so basic, it only got rebuilt once through the season. Most of the bike builds were done in the garage on a plastic folding table. The "semi" truck we were out of had basically no parts other than graphics and a pair of bars. 

Cole finished in the top 10 a few rounds and finished the season 14th in points despite missing as couple rounds. He beat Pro Circuit, Star and TLD riders somewhat frequently. It would blow me away when he did and really made me question what is necessary for these race teams. 

Smoke and Mirrors

IMG 4323 0 

Hammered Practice Steed at Yamaha Track 

IMG 4605.JPG?VersionId= zA

 Decent guys to practice with 

IMG 4412

 

13
stremme12
Posts
1221
Joined
3/10/2015
Location
HA, HI, USA
7/10/2023 8:55am Edited Date/Time 7/10/2023 9:15am
kijen wrote:
If a basically stock bike is beating factory bikes, then sort of makes me think factory bikes and all the cool things they do is a...

If a basically stock bike is beating factory bikes, then sort of makes me think factory bikes and all the cool things they do is a waste of money, goes past the bike, is the big high doller rig really neccesassry, or is all for show?

Kyle978 wrote:
I did the 2016 SX season as a mechanic with Cole Martinez when he rode for BPR/Home Depot Yamaha.  Cole lived in a house in Murrieta...

I did the 2016 SX season as a mechanic with Cole Martinez when he rode for BPR/Home Depot Yamaha. 

Cole lived in a house in Murrieta with Cooper Webb at the time, and that was essentially our race shop. I had a plastic folding table, small toolbox and air compressor. His practice bike had OEM KYB suspension converted to air by Enzo, a pipe, Vortex ignition and complete clutch. Everything else was completely stock. I did all practice bike work in that garage - 2 top ends, no bottom ends, all chassis work besides suspension rebuilds. We rode at the Yamaha track with Star (Cooper Webb, Plessinger, Alex Martin, Jeremy Martin, Mitchell Harrison at the time) and he would be faster than Harrison almost every day, and sometimes faster than Alex on a bone stock engine. He couldn't even triple into one of the rhythm sections. 

For the "race bike", it had Enzo A-kit air and not much else chassis wise - cut subframe and that's about it. Engine was built by Dasa, but was less than an amateur spec engine. It was so basic, it only got rebuilt once through the season. Most of the bike builds were done in the garage on a plastic folding table. The "semi" truck we were out of had basically no parts other than graphics and a pair of bars. 

Cole finished in the top 10 a few rounds and finished the season 14th in points despite missing as couple rounds. He beat Pro Circuit, Star and TLD riders somewhat frequently. It would blow me away when he did and really made me question what is necessary for these race teams. 

Smoke and Mirrors

IMG 4323 0 

Hammered Practice Steed at Yamaha Track 

IMG 4605.JPG?VersionId= zA

 Decent guys to practice with 

IMG 4412

 

That's cool for Cole and all but that was a regional SX series. I have a hard time drawing a comparison to what Ty is doing in the 450 class on a lightly worked 450 to Cole in west coast supercross.

Ty tried the 250 class at Pala on a privateer bike and never came close to the top 10. You can maybe get by with a lightly modified 250 in a regional SX series but when it comes to racing an entire class for outdoors it's probably not going to cut it like Ty tried. He was able to go 8-8 at RedBud last year but failed to get those results at any other races he tried on a privateer 250 last year. 

Cole's 2019 supercross results are more impressive than what he did on a 250. 13th overall in a 450 supercross main is cool.

Cole winning Open Pro Sport was even cooler seeing all the guys he beat last year. 

2
Kyle978
Posts
1742
Joined
10/7/2013
Location
Dirt, NM, USA
7/10/2023 11:30am
stremme12 wrote:
That's cool for Cole and all but that was a regional SX series. I have a hard time drawing a comparison to what Ty is doing...

That's cool for Cole and all but that was a regional SX series. I have a hard time drawing a comparison to what Ty is doing in the 450 class on a lightly worked 450 to Cole in west coast supercross.

Ty tried the 250 class at Pala on a privateer bike and never came close to the top 10. You can maybe get by with a lightly modified 250 in a regional SX series but when it comes to racing an entire class for outdoors it's probably not going to cut it like Ty tried. He was able to go 8-8 at RedBud last year but failed to get those results at any other races he tried on a privateer 250 last year. 

Cole's 2019 supercross results are more impressive than what he did on a 250. 13th overall in a 450 supercross main is cool.

Cole winning Open Pro Sport was even cooler seeing all the guys he beat last year. 

It wasn't my intent to compare Cole's season(s) to Ty's current season. I was sharing my experience of competing at a pretty high level with minimal resources when compared to the factory efforts. 

With that said, I believe Ty's bike is much more competitive in the 450 class than a privateer bike is in 250's, regional SX included. Cole was down 7-8HP compared to a factory bike at the time, in a class where engine matters most. In 450's, a stock engine can get the jonb done (as we've seen with Ty). 

Again, my intent was to give a little insight on the contrast between factory teams and privateer efforts and that all those extra resources don't always equate to results on the track.

9
1
8tensolutions
Posts
3538
Joined
11/15/2009
Location
Salt Lake City, UT, USA
7/10/2023 11:39am
You really think Kawis budget of $120k and bonuses is even a problem. That’s pennie’s to them.    Kawi has rows of factory bikes just sitting...

You really think Kawis budget of $120k and bonuses is even a problem. That’s pennie’s to them. 
 

Kawi has rows of factory bikes just sitting in Cali. 
 

We are not talking million dollar contracts here. 
 

Haul is bike, pay his transportation and give him bikes and parts. That again, cost very little for Kawi. 
 

When a privateer pulls holeshots and beats your factory riders that’s where you start to loose money from Kawis point of view. 
 

It looks really bad with all Kawis “assets” getting beat. The “CEO” of Kawi is not happy with the racing team, would you as CEO?Board meeting at Kawi HQ Mx team are not fun right now. 

Lol.  You clearly have no clue how business works.  

MXRalph wrote:
I think you're the one that doesn't understand how these big companies work. They could give him everything he needs to finish the year and it's...

I think you're the one that doesn't understand how these big companies work. They could give him everything he needs to finish the year and it's a write-off for them, they just write it off.

Dude.  A "write-off" does not mean it doesn't cost money or come out of a budget, it simply means it is protected from taxes because it's an "expense".  100% of most factories costs is categorized as marketing and/or research and development, which are already write-offs.  They know this when the budgets are created and don't have hundreds of thousands lying around to toss to a privateer just because you think they should or he is doing well.   Note:  They also have parts budgets and order the supply needed long before the season, so just creating another factory bike and the resources along with it is not a simple flip of a switch.  

If you work for a decent size company, go ask your boss if he can just randomly hire another high level, full time employee with this magical pile of cash that just lies around within companies.

1
7/10/2023 11:55am

Lol.  You clearly have no clue how business works.  

MXRalph wrote:
I think you're the one that doesn't understand how these big companies work. They could give him everything he needs to finish the year and it's...

I think you're the one that doesn't understand how these big companies work. They could give him everything he needs to finish the year and it's a write-off for them, they just write it off.

Dude.  A "write-off" does not mean it doesn't cost money or come out of a budget, it simply means it is protected from taxes because it's...

Dude.  A "write-off" does not mean it doesn't cost money or come out of a budget, it simply means it is protected from taxes because it's an "expense".  100% of most factories costs is categorized as marketing and/or research and development, which are already write-offs.  They know this when the budgets are created and don't have hundreds of thousands lying around to toss to a privateer just because you think they should or he is doing well.   Note:  They also have parts budgets and order the supply needed long before the season, so just creating another factory bike and the resources along with it is not a simple flip of a switch.  

If you work for a decent size company, go ask your boss if he can just randomly hire another high level, full time employee with this magical pile of cash that just lies around within companies.

All these big companies...they just write it off. Hire Masterpool and just write it off.

1
GrapeApe
Posts
9027
Joined
6/7/2010
Location
Mc Kinney, TX, USA
7/10/2023 11:57am

Lol.  You clearly have no clue how business works.  

MXRalph wrote:
I think you're the one that doesn't understand how these big companies work. They could give him everything he needs to finish the year and it's...

I think you're the one that doesn't understand how these big companies work. They could give him everything he needs to finish the year and it's a write-off for them, they just write it off.

Dude.  A "write-off" does not mean it doesn't cost money or come out of a budget, it simply means it is protected from taxes because it's...

Dude.  A "write-off" does not mean it doesn't cost money or come out of a budget, it simply means it is protected from taxes because it's an "expense".  100% of most factories costs is categorized as marketing and/or research and development, which are already write-offs.  They know this when the budgets are created and don't have hundreds of thousands lying around to toss to a privateer just because you think they should or he is doing well.   Note:  They also have parts budgets and order the supply needed long before the season, so just creating another factory bike and the resources along with it is not a simple flip of a switch.  

If you work for a decent size company, go ask your boss if he can just randomly hire another high level, full time employee with this magical pile of cash that just lies around within companies.

remote image

12
MXRalph
Posts
413
Joined
11/13/2022
Location
Sacramento, CA, USA
7/10/2023 12:00pm
MXRalph wrote:
I think you're the one that doesn't understand how these big companies work. They could give him everything he needs to finish the year and it's...

I think you're the one that doesn't understand how these big companies work. They could give him everything he needs to finish the year and it's a write-off for them, they just write it off.

Dude.  A "write-off" does not mean it doesn't cost money or come out of a budget, it simply means it is protected from taxes because it's...

Dude.  A "write-off" does not mean it doesn't cost money or come out of a budget, it simply means it is protected from taxes because it's an "expense".  100% of most factories costs is categorized as marketing and/or research and development, which are already write-offs.  They know this when the budgets are created and don't have hundreds of thousands lying around to toss to a privateer just because you think they should or he is doing well.   Note:  They also have parts budgets and order the supply needed long before the season, so just creating another factory bike and the resources along with it is not a simple flip of a switch.  

If you work for a decent size company, go ask your boss if he can just randomly hire another high level, full time employee with this magical pile of cash that just lies around within companies.

All these big companies...they just write it off. Hire Masterpool and just write it off.

You don't even know what a write-off is.

2
2
7/10/2023 12:05pm
Dude.  A "write-off" does not mean it doesn't cost money or come out of a budget, it simply means it is protected from taxes because it's...

Dude.  A "write-off" does not mean it doesn't cost money or come out of a budget, it simply means it is protected from taxes because it's an "expense".  100% of most factories costs is categorized as marketing and/or research and development, which are already write-offs.  They know this when the budgets are created and don't have hundreds of thousands lying around to toss to a privateer just because you think they should or he is doing well.   Note:  They also have parts budgets and order the supply needed long before the season, so just creating another factory bike and the resources along with it is not a simple flip of a switch.  

If you work for a decent size company, go ask your boss if he can just randomly hire another high level, full time employee with this magical pile of cash that just lies around within companies.

All these big companies...they just write it off. Hire Masterpool and just write it off.

MXRalph wrote:

You don't even know what a write-off is.

But they do, and they're the ones writing it off!

3
1
kijen
Posts
1230
Joined
10/1/2010
Location
Jacksonville, FL, USA
7/10/2023 12:41pm
kijen wrote:
If a basically stock bike is beating factory bikes, then sort of makes me think factory bikes and all the cool things they do is a...

If a basically stock bike is beating factory bikes, then sort of makes me think factory bikes and all the cool things they do is a waste of money, goes past the bike, is the big high doller rig really neccesassry, or is all for show?

Kyle978 wrote:
I did the 2016 SX season as a mechanic with Cole Martinez when he rode for BPR/Home Depot Yamaha.  Cole lived in a house in Murrieta...

I did the 2016 SX season as a mechanic with Cole Martinez when he rode for BPR/Home Depot Yamaha. 

Cole lived in a house in Murrieta with Cooper Webb at the time, and that was essentially our race shop. I had a plastic folding table, small toolbox and air compressor. His practice bike had OEM KYB suspension converted to air by Enzo, a pipe, Vortex ignition and complete clutch. Everything else was completely stock. I did all practice bike work in that garage - 2 top ends, no bottom ends, all chassis work besides suspension rebuilds. We rode at the Yamaha track with Star (Cooper Webb, Plessinger, Alex Martin, Jeremy Martin, Mitchell Harrison at the time) and he would be faster than Harrison almost every day, and sometimes faster than Alex on a bone stock engine. He couldn't even triple into one of the rhythm sections. 

For the "race bike", it had Enzo A-kit air and not much else chassis wise - cut subframe and that's about it. Engine was built by Dasa, but was less than an amateur spec engine. It was so basic, it only got rebuilt once through the season. Most of the bike builds were done in the garage on a plastic folding table. The "semi" truck we were out of had basically no parts other than graphics and a pair of bars. 

Cole finished in the top 10 a few rounds and finished the season 14th in points despite missing as couple rounds. He beat Pro Circuit, Star and TLD riders somewhat frequently. It would blow me away when he did and really made me question what is necessary for these race teams. 

Smoke and Mirrors

IMG 4323 0 

Hammered Practice Steed at Yamaha Track 

IMG 4605.JPG?VersionId= zA

 Decent guys to practice with 

IMG 4412

 

Thats a pretty good job explaining the reality of what is needed to race at a very high level. Seems the sport tries to impress with the glamour, rigs, titanium bits, really adds up to nothin. A good bike (not factory bits) and rider skills is need to be competitive. Living like a rockstar is all for the marketing.

7/10/2023 12:47pm
stremme12 wrote:
That's cool for Cole and all but that was a regional SX series. I have a hard time drawing a comparison to what Ty is doing...

That's cool for Cole and all but that was a regional SX series. I have a hard time drawing a comparison to what Ty is doing in the 450 class on a lightly worked 450 to Cole in west coast supercross.

Ty tried the 250 class at Pala on a privateer bike and never came close to the top 10. You can maybe get by with a lightly modified 250 in a regional SX series but when it comes to racing an entire class for outdoors it's probably not going to cut it like Ty tried. He was able to go 8-8 at RedBud last year but failed to get those results at any other races he tried on a privateer 250 last year. 

Cole's 2019 supercross results are more impressive than what he did on a 250. 13th overall in a 450 supercross main is cool.

Cole winning Open Pro Sport was even cooler seeing all the guys he beat last year. 

Kyle978 wrote:
It wasn't my intent to compare Cole's season(s) to Ty's current season. I was sharing my experience of competing at a pretty high level with minimal...

It wasn't my intent to compare Cole's season(s) to Ty's current season. I was sharing my experience of competing at a pretty high level with minimal resources when compared to the factory efforts. 

With that said, I believe Ty's bike is much more competitive in the 450 class than a privateer bike is in 250's, regional SX included. Cole was down 7-8HP compared to a factory bike at the time, in a class where engine matters most. In 450's, a stock engine can get the jonb done (as we've seen with Ty). 

Again, my intent was to give a little insight on the contrast between factory teams and privateer efforts and that all those extra resources don't always equate to results on the track.

7-8 HP is HUGE! Blink

LungButter
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7/10/2023 12:52pm
davistld01 wrote:
I'll leave this here... If Kawasaki doesn't pick Ty Masterpool up for 2024...they are massive idiots. Either one of the current team members could easily be...

I'll leave this here...

If Kawasaki doesn't pick Ty Masterpool up for 2024...they are massive idiots. Either one of the current team members could easily be dropped to make room for Masterpool. Both are on the decline.

That is all. 

It's not too late to just delete this and act like it didn't happen....

Kyle978
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7/10/2023 1:01pm
7-8 HP is HUGE! 

7-8 HP is HUGE! Blink

It was extremely frustrating. 

The engine builder (Dasa) was also frustrated - they had their name attached to a SX team, but the budget for engines wasn't there. They had amateurs on bikes with 3-4 more HP because the parents were willing to spend the cash to rebuild, where this team wasn't willing. 

Nothing more frustrating then showing up for track walk to find a huge triple out of a corner, knowing he was going to have to die trying or improvise through that section the entire day and night. 

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toomanykaws
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7/10/2023 1:10pm

Was just waiting for someone to post Kramer up.  Hilarious.  Smile .  

1
8tensolutions
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Salt Lake City, UT, USA
7/10/2023 2:32pm
Dude.  A "write-off" does not mean it doesn't cost money or come out of a budget, it simply means it is protected from taxes because it's...

Dude.  A "write-off" does not mean it doesn't cost money or come out of a budget, it simply means it is protected from taxes because it's an "expense".  100% of most factories costs is categorized as marketing and/or research and development, which are already write-offs.  They know this when the budgets are created and don't have hundreds of thousands lying around to toss to a privateer just because you think they should or he is doing well.   Note:  They also have parts budgets and order the supply needed long before the season, so just creating another factory bike and the resources along with it is not a simple flip of a switch.  

If you work for a decent size company, go ask your boss if he can just randomly hire another high level, full time employee with this magical pile of cash that just lies around within companies.

All these big companies...they just write it off. Hire Masterpool and just write it off.

MXRalph wrote:

You don't even know what a write-off is.

Bro.....you're lost.  Explain it to us?

chump6784
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7/10/2023 2:58pm
183Matt wrote:
With so many top riders wanting to have a SX only contract,  why not hire someone like Ty to race only the US MX series.  Simply...

With so many top riders wanting to have a SX only contract,  why not hire someone like Ty to race only the US MX series.  Simply adjust the contracts accordingly.

chump6784 wrote:
This. Hire a supercross specialist and motocross specialist. The teams would have a rider concentrating on one discipline for 12 months of the year. Let AC...

This. Hire a supercross specialist and motocross specialist. The teams would have a rider concentrating on one discipline for 12 months of the year. Let AC race sx, masterpool race mx

mxb2 wrote:

Maybe ac likes to ride both .

What AC likes and what he can physically do is two different things. He was just rolling around at the end of moto 2 at Southwick. Masterpool and AC were just an example anyway

mxb2
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7/10/2023 2:59pm
chump6784 wrote:
This. Hire a supercross specialist and motocross specialist. The teams would have a rider concentrating on one discipline for 12 months of the year. Let AC...

This. Hire a supercross specialist and motocross specialist. The teams would have a rider concentrating on one discipline for 12 months of the year. Let AC race sx, masterpool race mx

mxb2 wrote:

Maybe ac likes to ride both .

chump6784 wrote:
What AC likes and what he can physically do is two different things. He was just rolling around at the end of moto 2 at Southwick...

What AC likes and what he can physically do is two different things. He was just rolling around at the end of moto 2 at Southwick. Masterpool and AC were just an example anyway

Yep and kawy wants a sx guy also. 

MO 23
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AU
7/10/2023 3:00pm
stremme12 wrote:
I'm curious how it makes them lose money? Ty is riding a Kawasaki as well. To me that should make the bike look great and the...

I'm curious how it makes them lose money? Ty is riding a Kawasaki as well. To me that should make the bike look great and the riders less prepared. 

Lose money by dumping money into a team that gets beat by a privateer on a “stock” bike.    Would you be happy as CEO if...

Lose money by dumping money into a team that gets beat by a privateer on a “stock” bike. 
 

Would you be happy as CEO if that was your results after investment?

Now your stock bike beating Factory’s is great. Your investment in Factory team is not. 

mxb2 wrote:

How many millions did hrc invest in kroc to win a title?   

There is no doubt that HRC planned to win multiple titles with him, and I am sure disappointed that they didn’t. Especially at the actual race team level.

however above that level, how many extra bikes would have been sold if he won 1 or 2 titles?

He was hired to represent the brand, and he is one of the most popular and recognizable figures in the sport, he won a lot of races etc.

ROI is so difficult to calculate when it comes to racing, but I dare say Honda did pretty well with Kenny compared to most.

1
MO 23
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Location
AU
7/10/2023 3:24pm

Bro.....you're lost.  Explain it to us?

It's easy. All the big companies write off losses. Everyone but you knows that.

I might go and buy a Porsche tomorrow, then tell my Partner “it is just a write off”, so the money doesn’t really matter.

2
mxb2
Posts
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Location
Bowie, MD, USA
7/10/2023 3:51pm
Lose money by dumping money into a team that gets beat by a privateer on a “stock” bike.    Would you be happy as CEO if...

Lose money by dumping money into a team that gets beat by a privateer on a “stock” bike. 
 

Would you be happy as CEO if that was your results after investment?

Now your stock bike beating Factory’s is great. Your investment in Factory team is not. 

mxb2 wrote:

How many millions did hrc invest in kroc to win a title?   

MO 23 wrote:
There is no doubt that HRC planned to win multiple titles with him, and I am sure disappointed that they didn’t. Especially at the actual race...

There is no doubt that HRC planned to win multiple titles with him, and I am sure disappointed that they didn’t. Especially at the actual race team level.

however above that level, how many extra bikes would have been sold if he won 1 or 2 titles?

He was hired to represent the brand, and he is one of the most popular and recognizable figures in the sport, he won a lot of races etc.

ROI is so difficult to calculate when it comes to racing, but I dare say Honda did pretty well with Kenny compared to most.

Same as ac,  popular,well spoken.  No drama and represents the brand well. 

3
GrapeApe
Posts
9027
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Mc Kinney, TX, USA
7/10/2023 4:17pm Edited Date/Time 7/10/2023 4:18pm

Bro.....you're lost.  Explain it to us?

It's easy. All the big companies write off losses. Everyone but you knows that.

I asked my accountant to write off the time I volunteered to this thread. I might also write off my time for dealing with that guy that thinks all US based riders should race in Europe.

 

1
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8tensolutions
Posts
3538
Joined
11/15/2009
Location
Salt Lake City, UT, USA
7/10/2023 4:33pm Edited Date/Time 7/10/2023 4:48pm

Bro.....you're lost.  Explain it to us?

It's easy. All the big companies write off losses. Everyone but you knows that.

This is the definition of ignorance.  

1

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