Posts
692
Joined
1/29/2023
Location
Grants Pass, OR, USA
So! what's everybody think, the 1st 450 moto at Southwick and Jett Lawrence and Chase Sexton are almost a minute ahead of Dylan Ferrandis on his Star Yamaha 450. Is team Honda killing it in the 450 class because they have the best riders, the best bike or combination of both. It just seems that Team Honda has created the perfect 450 motocross factory bike this year and it allows their riders to simply destroy the competition. Whether you love or hate Honda's, there's no denying they're sweet looking motocross weapons.
Poll
No. They have the two best riders out there right now. Don’t get me wrong, their bikes are damn good, but I’d bet you there’d be a Yamaha right there with them if he was there. Also, try going their speed on a CRF450 off the showroom floor. It won’t handle anything like Jett’s does.
It's 90% rider, 10% bike.
So yes, to the extent that it matters, which is 10%, the Honda is the best factory MX bike on the track. It's like a full 10%, while the Yamaha is like 9.5%. A stock Kawasaki is apparently somewhere around 8%, because Ty Masterpool is killing it and beating factory KX450s on one. And, of course, riding a kickstart Suzuki puts you way down in a hole at somewhere around 7.5%.
Jett Lawrence would still be 12-0, even if he were on a Suzuki.
Riders
Chase doesn't even really love that bike. Hence the switching of brands to a more stable chassis. (KTM)
The Shop
Luxon 4-Post Bar Mounts
$189.95 - $239.95
DeCal Works Huge Plastic Inventory of UFO and Polisport kits.
As much as I am a Honda guy at the moment, these top riders could win on just about every brand. Sure a well setup factory bike over a not well setup factory bike could make a slight difference.
Unfortunately people do compare a showroom bike to a factory bike and we all know the showroom bike is tricky to setup, but then again when it is setup by heck they are good.
In saying that the factory Hondas do look the part too.
Depends. If he stalled it at high point in his crash. He could still be there kicking It.
Yeah, it's all the bike
I'm sure a stock 2023 YZF450 doesn't handle anything like Tomac's or Ferrandis's bikes either at their speed.
Neither.
If I paid Jett 10m a year to ride a BMX bike, he’d probably lose.
or something like that.
As sexy as Jett and Chase make that bike look, the Honda feels like a terrifying death trap under my Vet B butt cheeks. I like that motocross is always a little scary, but that chassis takes it too far. It’s like a wild horse that you’re never confident is completely broken. One moment you’re galloping around, merry as can be, the next you’re laying on your back and gasping for air while the bike stares down at you like “try again, dickhead.”
So yeah… sick bike, but I’ not about to buy one.
Tell DF 14 the Yamaha is 9.5 . Cause that bike continues to look like shit . Roczen got very close to jet . And made that Suzuki look alot better than 7 .5
Bikes look good, but Jett and Chase are up front on anything.
Honda 250s are pretty good too …
Helps when you got the best riders lol.
KTM will all the sudden be a good bike again when Chase moves over.
So! based on the AMA rules, it sounds like the biggest difference between a Factory bike and what you can buy on the showroom floor is the suspension according to Roger Decoster in this video and the frame and swingarm on a factory bike has to be standard and the same dimensions to the stocker. I find my 2023 CRF450RWE to be an absolute blast to ride and very confidence inspiring. Just like any bike, you have to customize the suspension to your liking, because no two people are the same, but once you get it dialed it's pretty nice. I know that what the Factory guys get as far as suspension is almost un-obtainable to us average folk, but the AMA rules are pretty consistent across the brands to what is pretty much a stock bike and what they can do to turn them into a factory race bike. If the stocker is the starting point and all the factory race teams can do modifications to the engine and suspension within the rules as long as they stay within the same stock frame standards, wouldn't that mean that the Honda CRF450 is the best right now to set up for a factory team. If the stock Honda is the worst in the opinions of some, then Jett and Chase and making a bad bike look amazingly good.
I'm gonna bet a Honda fanboi posted this.
No, actually the current gen Honda frames are known to be finicky to setup, rigid, not stable, and twitchy at speed. That's according to all the moto media outlets, they all say the same thing. Honda finishes near the bottom of the shootouts. What you're witnessing are the two best riders in the class on factory bikes with unobtanium...
Last year it was a YZ and a CR a full min. ahead of the pack. So...
I'm actually a Honda and KTM fanboi where currently I own two Honda's a 1987 CR500 and 2023 CRF450RWE and 2 KTM's a 2007 525 XCW and 2022 350XCF Factory edition. Years ago I had Suzuki's, but I like all the brands, but I am happy to see Honda finally having a great year in SX and MX. Chase and Jett are basically on the same bikes, but Jett seems to gel with the CRF450 better and rides it perfectly. I think the Honda CRF450 gets an unjustified bad reputation, because it is a bike that is sensitive to set up, but one you get it right, it's nice. Maybe people are just shellshocked by the success Team HRC is having currently and in denial. I can imagine Jett's success is going to sell a lot of CRF's to the general public.
Pit Row
Jett could be on a 01 CR250 and he would still wax the competition.
A healthy Tomac would be the only one who could match Jett this season. Guess we’ll have to see that showdown in 24’
It’s usually the 3rd and 4th year of any bike’s production cycle that they win the most. The new YZ will be great by 2025, KTM will figure it out about the same time, next year the new Kawi will struggle.. it’s not the bike, it’s the time and talent of the development team. Also, Jett is thoroughly prepared, healthy, rested (250SX is a 1/2 season) and he has otherworldly talent that just fits the big Honda.
Look at the difference between the blue 450s and 250s. The 250s are on rails, the 450s not so much. The new frame hasn’t been figured out yet.
yes, but you setup the bike with damn good suspension and its a different beast, yes shootouts are done on stock suspension hence the results it gets, but most good riders do their suspension no matter the brand
well said, exactly my thoughts on it too, its one hell of a bike when properly setup i,e, proper aftermarket suspension being the biggest change
If Jett goes on to win the title this will be Honda's first big bike AMA outdoor title since RC yeah?
Its funny how much all the other manufactures have copped along the way, especially Yamaha and Suzuki, yet both have won a lot more titles in the past 20 years than big red in the U.S
No, the KTM's front end will wash out!
The only other bike to lead laps this year is the 2018 RMZ. Does that mean it’s the second best 2023 bike?
HRC frames are beefed up in some spots vs stock. Nothing new for factories to mod frames that way. So it looks like your stock bike and the rules make you feel like they are on the same bike as in your garage but they aren’t.
Better than stock….I guess….but Masterpool.
Jett riding style does relly fit the Honda chassi, and Sextons does not really. Jett is much farther back on the bike and stands almost straight up. While Sexton is over the front alot wich does not fit a bike that alreday has a front end bias chassi.
It’s not a matter of parts I can or can’t obtain, it’s a matter of skill I don’t have and a lack of time to put adequate hours on a bike.
Chase and Jett can manage a high strung bike. They can make a mistake, recover it, and immediately go back to 100% race pace without missing a beat. They can put a full time job’s worth of hours on the bike and time in the gym to keep their skills and fitness at the necessary levels.
I can’t do those things. It’s why I’m a vet B rider posting on vital and not a professional, and it’s why I don’t want to ride a Honda.
Perhaps it is better to separate the question accepting that it is 90% rider / 10% bike.
- Rider - where is everybody relative to Jett? We’ve heard his results have been discounted by a weak field, Chase’s and Webb’s concussion, Ferrandis coming off of injury.
- Bike - Yamaha not working for Ferrandis, KTM not working for Webb needs spring forks they wouldn’t let him use (irrelevant now he’s parted with KTM), Honda setup very sensitive (?) according to Jett, Kawasaki don’t know but no consistent enough results except for Masterpool.
I don’t have the answers but the problem is more complicated when the bike doesn’t allow the rider to feel confident enough to go to his 100%.
Post a reply to: Is it the 2023 HRC CRF450RWE or the riders that are allowing Honda to destroy the 450 class