Mixing hard pack track soil with sand.

Hi Guys,

Has anyone tried to mix the soil of a very hard pack track with sand. Trying to find a way to make it little softer....How hard is the job to do it for the entire track..?

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6/19/2023 6:31am
Hi Guys, Has anyone tried to mix the soil of a very hard pack track with sand. Trying to find a way to make it little...

Hi Guys,

Has anyone tried to mix the soil of a very hard pack track with sand. Trying to find a way to make it little softer....How hard is the job to do it for the entire track..?

We actually did this at our home track. Got a few dump loads of sand, spread it out in our corners, and tilled it in. Our track isn't big, I would compare it to slightly larger than arena cross size, and it made little to no difference. I think you would need a lot of sand to really loosen up the dirt so it doesn't hard pack as much.

3
GrapeApe
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6/19/2023 6:41am Edited Date/Time 6/19/2023 7:50am

Sand tends to just wash away. You need to mix in organic material and give it time to break down the soil. Or buy a different property. lol

 

7
6/19/2023 6:41am

Well, are there any other options to make it softer..at least to keep water for longer..I do not know why but it drys super fast when I say super I mean really fast. And if you dig it like 20 cm it is very wet..But if you go with the harrow then make it worse because leaving that soil not pressed then becomes super dust. 

wrc777
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6/19/2023 6:48am

Saw dust that has animal manure (horse, cow) in it tilled in will help retain moisture over time. Clean saw dust will also work it just tanks longer. Sand either has to be deep and nearly all sand or you have to keep it constantly watered otherwise you get sand on top of hard pack which is super slick.

6

The Shop

mxtech1
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6/19/2023 6:50am Edited Date/Time 6/19/2023 6:51am

Well, we were just given a case study this weekend from the High Point national on how to do it incorrectly. So just do the opposite of what they did and you'll be fine.

14
1
6/19/2023 6:51am
GrapeApe wrote:
Sand tends to just wash away. You need to mix in organic material and give it time to break down the soil. Or buy a different...

Sand tends to just wash away. You need to mix in organic material and give it time to break down the soil. Or buy a different property. lol

 

hah, no will stay with the same property as it is around 14 acre.

6/19/2023 7:45am

Agree with what was said above. Its an unending battle because you're constantly roosting off the track and rain reeks havoc. Unless you have a sand pit, it'll be tough. 

6/19/2023 8:09am

Sawdust and mulch are the best options.  You will have to be consistent over time, tilling it in, but applying it once won't help for long. 

3
6/19/2023 8:11am

Sawdust and mulch are the best options.  You will have to be consistent over time, tilling it in, but applying it once won't help for long. 

How would you mix it, just put on the track or something special?

wrc777
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6/19/2023 8:27am

Sawdust and mulch are the best options.  You will have to be consistent over time, tilling it in, but applying it once won't help for long. 

How would you mix it, just put on the track or something special?

It works faster to mix it in as the wood will hold water and release it to the surrounding soil as the soil dries. It also allows some air to work through the soil. Putting it on top will help as it still acts like a water reservoir but it takes longer for the wood to break down and mix in.

Hammer 663s
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6/19/2023 8:50am

Sawdust and wood chips (small). This is a pure clay track w/o the amendments. With them, it's the best dirt I've ever ridden.

 

step 3LYNU3728OR dustOTWA9134

1
sandtrack315
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6/19/2023 8:57am

saw dust and sand, just keep bringing it in. 

pops
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6/19/2023 9:48am
Hi Guys, Has anyone tried to mix the soil of a very hard pack track with sand. Trying to find a way to make it little...

Hi Guys,

Has anyone tried to mix the soil of a very hard pack track with sand. Trying to find a way to make it little softer....How hard is the job to do it for the entire track..?

Sand and sawdust work just fine. But it has to be worked into the hard pack, as has been said. But it’s going to take a shit ton of either or both.

1
250 cross
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6/19/2023 9:58am
GrapeApe wrote:
Sand tends to just wash away. You need to mix in organic material and give it time to break down the soil. Or buy a different...

Sand tends to just wash away. You need to mix in organic material and give it time to break down the soil. Or buy a different property. lol

 

My old track I mixed in the sawdust from cleaning horse stalls, worked good. My new track more natural terrain (i.e. hills) and is further back on the property so dumping the sawdust wasn't convenient so I have been using sand. First couple of years it worked good but when it rains hard it washed fine sand down to the bottoms of the hills which sucks in tight turns. Have been bucketing it back up the hills but it gotten so bad I need a new plan of attack. Now I'm going to raise the turns at the base of the hills and try to get the sand to wash off to the sides of the track. Loosening the soil does make it way more fun but deep sand in low speed turns is a bummer.

6/19/2023 12:24pm
Sawdust and wood chips (small). This is a pure clay track w/o the amendments. With them, it's the best dirt I've ever ridden.  

Sawdust and wood chips (small). This is a pure clay track w/o the amendments. With them, it's the best dirt I've ever ridden.

 

step 3LYNU3728OR dustOTWA9134

Is not Sawdust and wood chips almost the same ? It should be put on the track after rain or watered right? Otherwise it would just stay on the surface...

early
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6/19/2023 12:35pm
Sawdust and wood chips (small). This is a pure clay track w/o the amendments. With them, it's the best dirt I've ever ridden.  

Sawdust and wood chips (small). This is a pure clay track w/o the amendments. With them, it's the best dirt I've ever ridden.

 

step 3LYNU3728OR dustOTWA9134

Is not Sawdust and wood chips almost the same ? It should be put on the track after rain or watered right? Otherwise it would just...

Is not Sawdust and wood chips almost the same ? It should be put on the track after rain or watered right? Otherwise it would just stay on the surface...

Sawdust will breakdown and integrate faster, woodchips stay chunky for a year or more. Sometimes tree services will deliver woodchips free or cheap if they are in the area. Till, spread, till, water. Do the initial till after a rain if the dirt is hard already.

1
cloverdale
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6/19/2023 2:03pm

Redbud use to be similar to Saddleback...ha! My understanding is they were able to add a biblical amount of sand that was actually located on the property. Someone closer to the track could give additional details. Bottom line is they took a clay track and made it special!

Old Mate
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6/19/2023 2:12pm

Think a bit like your veggie garden, let sawdust and other veg compose with moisture a little before tilling in and keep the track moist enough for microbe growth. Of course sand can be added if moisture stays in the soil and only till when necessary for riding. Eg just curtain corner insides on training days and whole track on big events.

Crutcher
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6/19/2023 2:12pm
 


This is a sawdust track. Highly suggest this aggregate above all others. 

1
PDUB481
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O Fallon, IL, USA
6/19/2023 2:13pm

Sawdust is the poor mans version of SAND. You will much better results with sand. When you want to go somewhere nice, sand is usually involved.  Beach or a nice get away island.   Never heard of someone wanting to go to the saw mill. Dunlop doesn't make a sawdust tire, but the do make sand tires.  

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4
AMDnutt
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Fort Wayne, IN, USA
6/19/2023 3:00pm

Sawdust / small cut mulch along with sand then plow into the soil. Disc to small particles, then water and let sit to dry. Ride it and then do it all again. 

2
plowboy
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6/19/2023 3:08pm
PDUB481 wrote:
Sawdust is the poor mans version of SAND. You will much better results with sand. When you want to go somewhere nice, sand is usually involved. ...

Sawdust is the poor mans version of SAND. You will much better results with sand. When you want to go somewhere nice, sand is usually involved.  Beach or a nice get away island.   Never heard of someone wanting to go to the saw mill. Dunlop doesn't make a sawdust tire, but the do make sand tires.  

I started racing in east Texas.  The track at Longview TX was a mix of sawdust and sand.  The most perfect traction and dust free place I ever raced.  

2
6/19/2023 5:30pm

Yes it can be done.  It takes a lot of time and effort.  One application and tillage isn't going to do much.  Think on a time scale of years.  Eventually you'll get it to where you want it.

Sand, wood chips, sawdust.  Whatever is available and cheapest.  All three would be sweet.  

randbagger
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6/19/2023 5:42pm

Hangtown / Pairre City OHV . Rice hulls ( locally available agriculture byproduct) I think every year before the National MX race for a decade or more. 

SEEMEFIRST
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6/19/2023 5:43pm

What worked great for us was free trailer loads of horse barn refuse, mixed with cabinet shop chips.

Till that stuff in really helped our clay.

We had a bunch of sand on top of the track, but we constantly had to replace it after rain.

6/19/2023 7:56pm

I’ve seen good success with constantly tilling in horse stall clean outs.

1
6/19/2023 8:26pm

Sand is becoming an expensive commodity, good luck getting enough for a track. 
 

 

2
mxtech1
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6/19/2023 9:07pm

How would you mix it, just put on the track or something special?

The base needs to be ripped deep. Like 7-12” with a moldboard plow. Then top dressed and worked in. Repeat the process many times over to get the final result you’re after.  

1
1
Mick 22
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6/20/2023 4:54am
mxtech1 wrote:
Well, we were just given a case study this weekend from the High Point national on how to do it incorrectly. So just do the opposite...

Well, we were just given a case study this weekend from the High Point national on how to do it incorrectly. So just do the opposite of what they did and you'll be fine.

High Point has always ben the closest national to home for me, and the track has changed considerably from the old days.

Haven't been there in quite a few years now, but went to the first national in 1976 and then to everyone of them until about 1997, then only to a few more since.

Mr. Coombs used to take care of the track nicely, working in lots of sawdust and getting out the machinery as much as possible on race days. The current generation doesn't seem to give a shit about anything but $, which is obviously important but which is not the only thing.

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6/20/2023 6:41am

Guys, would these work?
Талаш, дървени стърготини

2

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