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7/8/2020
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AU
After the masterpool showing on weekend aside from all the talk he should be a factory guy he has a stock bike etc. I feel it really showed that the money spent on bike testing and development and trying new things old things crazy new parts whatever I feel like that budget could be seriously cut down and maybe flow that extra money to riders earning more or maybe production bikes don’t keep soaring to higher cost because other then the top supercross guys I mean no one needs all the new stuff not even the pros outdoors I mean burkeen qualified on essentially 15yr old technology and even he would probaly agree a brand new 450 is t going to put him In top ten next weekend. Maybe I’m miles off but cheaper dirt bikes is never a bad topic.
I think motorcycles are one of the few things that feel fair in price. 2002 YZ250 was 6K and 20 years later they are 8K, give or take a couple hundred.
Its not the "testing and designing" that costs all the money... its the CNC'd drawer liners for each tool in a 2 million dollar rig employing seven people to transport and maintain it to 25+ stops around the country. Its the $50 million dollar race facilities and the Matching patagonia embroidered jackets for everyone that handles a goggle strap... I could go on but I think you get the point.
Cheap bikes are great but good luck talking people into giving up the "useless extras".
Every factory except HONDA should just liquidate their factory team for the next 10 years and sell less expensive bikes. More R.O.I....(Maybe KTM already has with its shitbox stock parts for Coop and Pless) Or just Employ Dazzy and the boys to make them relevant again
So no more Pit Bits?
The Shop
DeCal Works Huge Plastic Inventory of UFO and Polisport kits.
Luxon 4-Post Bar Mounts
$189.95 - $239.95
In my business we spend huge money on equipment with decades old technology, with the same old problems decade after decade. Dirt bikes are constantly evolving and an amazing value, for performance, durability, and technology. I applaud most of the advances, if bikes were like they were 20years ago a lot of us older guys wouldn't be riding still. Just electric start is huge, disc brakes, chain and drive train advancements, tires have gotten better and tubeless technology, suspension is so much better, on and on. Do we NEED all that, well no, probably not. But it sure is nice, and baits you to buy new bikes. Could a pro do well on a ten or even twenty year old bike, depends on the pro, but probably.
And a new truck shouldn’t cost $50,000 - $100,000
Have you priced out a new road or MTB lately?!
I don't think the bikes are a material cost for factory teams. The human resources, trucks, and travel drive the costs. Cutting 3 races off the SX series would have a far larger impact than having all the factory guys on stock bikes. I imagine a fair bit of the factory bike expense doubles as R&D that they'd need to do anyway.
I'm actually amazed, and kinda thankful, that motocross bike pricing hasn't followed suit after the obscene prices mountain bikes seem to be able to command.
Granted cycling is way more accessible and a way easier past time for most people, but I don't know if that explains the prices being higher or if it means they should be lower? No idea, different topic anyway I guess.
No need to buy the model with massaging seats. Buy a base model.
If you want a truck with car like interior, essentially 2 vehicles in one, they're expensive.
It's why I still have my 2006 with 212k on it. It works as a truck.
I remember seeing 99 yz400f going for over 7k. Buying a 23 450 that can podium a national for 8k is amazing. I`m old and slow and don`t need another dirt bike but it`s tempting.
Not sure what you're getting at. How is electric start huge? Disc brakes were around 20+ years ago, as well as quality chains.
And?
This is about wanting the price dropped so its less expensive but still has all the best options available.
Yeah I can see that a valid point for sure.
But that’s the point. Are bikes really evolving though or do you just buy it cause the factory said it was better ?
Exactly what I was trying to get at. Are the price for bikes worth it when maybe all the new tech Hasn’t actually improved bikes that much.
Do you work for Suzuki's marketing department?
Joking aside, what you've described is basically what an RMZ is today... the cheapest bike with the least amount of tech/upgrades, and still capable of winning apparently.
On the 450 class you can definitely be competition a nearly stock bike. 250 class is a little different as the amount spent to get 5-7 hp out is huge. A rider I know who raced 250sx and 450 outdoors said he had to spend 10-15k to make his 250 competitive. His 450 got a pie and a little suspension work and he was top 20.
Pit Row
Vital says ya dont need a pipe, oem is good enough lol.
Why are MTB bikes so damn expensive? I know little to nothing about the sport but have friends that tell me how much they spend on bikes. Insane
Mmmmmm, pie.
Suspension is so much better? Tell that to Yamaha who everyone agrees has the best suspension that's 05? technology and has changed feck all. The only huge change to modern four stroke s is all electronic, mapping efis has been a big change. Other than that a 07/08 CRF is as good as any bike being make in 2023. I always hear how much new technology are in new bikes . Ie, Yamaha reverse cylinder, Bikes had reverse cylinder s in 1908 , KTM bellvile washer to hold the clutch plate s, again 1920 s technology. KTM finger followers there s bikes in the 50s with a very similar set up. Etc etc . Bikes are great now . But as far as MX bikes being on the cutting edge of technology it's not true
A high end mountain bike is the equivalent of a factory moto. It's the same bike the factory guys ride with the best suspension valving, lightest and best performing parts, titanium hardware, and carbon everywhere. A comparable moto would be north of 30K.
Top end MTBs are built to nearly works bike standards, they’re like jewelry. They’re overpriced as hell, but the market supports them, they sell a lot.
20 year old bikes are still close to competitive (fully competitive on a local level) if you swap to modern suspension. Setup is more important than the latest/ greatest hardware.
If you don’t someone else will. This is a brain dead take.
I was super stoked on Masterpool and his performance but context is important.
In an average year he would likely be fight for 6-8 which is still awesome but to suggest that factory teams should stop developing and testing because one privateer did well one time is dumb af lol
If you read other responses on this thread and actually be able to take in other opinions I’m sure you would see there is such valid points here masterpool is only a example obviously because of the weekend and he’s not even on a stock bike anyway. It’s more the fact that if you took into account the amount of money spent on development in say ten years has not really made the bike that much better and the point being made is that maybe that would of kept retail of bikes down a little bit. Dudes that want all the bling that’s sick if you got the coin go for it love seeing bikes with all the trick stuff on but for a regular guy or a racer that needs to get a new bike every two years that maybe without all the development done that hasn’t really gotten us anywhere that maybe bikes wouldn’t be getting so expensive either.
The fact that Masterpool can almost podium on a nearly stock bike is a good argument FOR development systems. The things teams develop for their bikes eventually get incorporated to varying degrees on production bikes, increases competition in the MX market and ultimately benefits the consumers. Current bikes are better machines that they were 10 years ago and idk how that can really be disputed?
Teams race budgets have absolutely nothing to do with the price of bikes. Where the hell did you come up with that
Never said factory teams I said oems I do not see why there would need to take things from the factory teams and put those into production bikes when the gains don’t equal to the cost price for the consumer
And I don’t agree that that the bikes are that much better then they were ten years ago
There's a couple of points I believe people are missing here that allowed Ty to get that bike so good on a smaller budget.
First, that chassis has been raced since 2019. The development has been done already, no need in trying a bunch of new things. They already know what works.
Second, the Masterpools put together a great team of people to build that bike for him. People who have knowledge of what factory Kawi is doing. Take that knowledge and apply it to Ty and what he needs the bike to do, and you have what we just saw Saturday. The right people who know what they are doing with a bike that they don't need to develop new parts for.
I'm not sure he could have had the same results on the same budget with one of the 1st year chassis bikes available.
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