New bike day - Stark Varg has arrived!!!!

GrapeApe
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Mc Kinney, TX, USA
6/1/2023 5:00am Edited Date/Time 6/1/2023 5:05am
truck wrote:
This isn't complicated. They directly shipped the first one out to a guy that is going to give them both publicity and quality feedback, and the...

This isn't complicated. They directly shipped the first one out to a guy that is going to give them both publicity and quality feedback, and the rest are on a boat and will be here..... some day..... they can't really tell you when because once it's on a boat it's not in their control.

How many are on a boat is an entirely different question and one that they should be able to answer. The fact that this number isn't being broadcast and that if you order today you might get it a bike in 18 months tells me production is still a big problem, but I wouldn't think they'd send one guy a one off bike just to say they are shipping. 

GrapeApe wrote:

This is ignoring sales to Europe and other areas that aren't delayed by a boat ride.

truck wrote:
You follow a lot of French language moto sites? Call it shipping, customs, whatever.... point still stands.  Is it your position that they custom made 1...

You follow a lot of French language moto sites? Call it shipping, customs, whatever.... point still stands. 

Is it your position that they custom made 1 bike and sent it to a random guy in Southern California as part of some elaborate plot?

Not quite as nefarious as you make it sound, but yes, I think they shipped one customer bike at that time and promoted it as "customer deliveries have begun". That is a true statement, but also a little disingenuous which was my point.

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6/1/2023 5:41am
GrapeApe wrote:
Not quite as nefarious as you make it sound, but yes, I think they shipped one customer bike at that time and promoted it as "customer...

Not quite as nefarious as you make it sound, but yes, I think they shipped one customer bike at that time and promoted it as "customer deliveries have begun". That is a true statement, but also a little disingenuous which was my point.

They did say "the first VARGs have been shipped"...

https://www.facebook.com/starkfutureofficial/posts/pfbid0BigAhKamEjAsp7fJGa6xZJo7ecBFf2XpsAbanDmu4VK52a2iYHfzHUJ1U2y476csl

their photo showed 6 bikes...

Starks Shipped

If they were shipped to people who are riding them on their own land and don't want the neighbors to know, you wouldn't hear about it, not everyone rides on public land or has a social media presence.

or they only shipped one!

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3
crt32
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6/1/2023 6:41am

The only pictures we have seen are the "assembly line." Just curious is Stark outsourcing their plastic, handlebars, seat, sprockets, etc? What all is actually being manufactured in-house?

1
6/1/2023 7:59am Edited Date/Time 6/1/2023 8:01am

Great riding videos!!

You have to do that triple (or uphill jump that Dubach did) in next video thou  Smile

Living in Michigan, I find those Cali tracks a joke. They sure look smooth and hard pack compared to tracks I’ve grown up on. Almost boring  😱

No flaggers at practice?

 

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The Shop

6/1/2023 8:06am
Why would they say that they ALREADY made sure that was not going to happen to other customers bikes? If they were not aware of it...

Why would they say that they ALREADY made sure that was not going to happen to other customers bikes? If they were not aware of it before he told them. That could  mean that they found  a flaw in the packing process and changed it after his was packed. It could mean they packed and shipped a container full the same day or day after Bryans was picked up. 

Its all just speculation, either could be true or it could be something totally different. If English is not the first language of the person who made the statement , perhaps they  phrased it differently than they meant to. I doubt they thought that their words would be analyzed the way they have been.  

38special wrote:
You should focus on quality versus quantity.   Or, said another way that you might better understand: "Hey fellow dirt bike enthusiasts! I wanted to start...

You should focus on quality versus quantity.

 

Or, said another way that you might better understand:

"Hey fellow dirt bike enthusiasts!

I wanted to start a conversation about the importance of quality over quantity when posting on our beloved message board. In my opinion, focusing on quality contributions and relying on factual information instead of speculation can greatly enhance our community. Here's why:

Credibility matters: We all appreciate knowledgeable experts sharing their insights. By valuing quality over quantity, we can give these authoritative voices the recognition they deserve. Let's prioritize factual information to build trust and reliability among our members. It benefits riders of all levels and promotes a healthy learning environment.

Learning and growth opportunities: With quality posts, we get the chance to dive deep into various aspects of dirt biking. We can explore topics like maintenance, riding techniques, and safety protocols in greater detail. By sharing comprehensive information, we enable everyone to enhance their skills and ensure a safe and enjoyable riding experience. Let's seize the opportunity to learn and grow together.

Avoiding misinformation and speculation: Let's face it, misinformation and speculation can be detrimental to our community. By focusing on quality content backed by facts, we can keep our discussions grounded and reliable. It's essential to maintain the authenticity of our information to ensure the safety and well-being of all riders. Let's prioritize accuracy over unfounded claims.

In conclusion, the strength of our dirt bike message board lies in the quality of our contributions and the use of factual information. Let's encourage knowledgeable experts to share their insights, foster learning and growth, and create a community rooted in trust and reliability. By valuing quality over quantity, we can maintain the integrity of our discussions and ensure a safer and more enriching experience for all riders."

 

Exactly why I speculate in the opposite way when I see speculation. No Matter if I agree with  what I am saying or not. If people are speculating at all , I was pointing out that what was being said was speculation itself and saying how it could also easily be something totally different.  I totally agree that speculating and reading into something that has to be or can be interpreted can be damaging. 

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TeamGreen
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6/1/2023 8:41am

27 pages of arguing over just about everything and anything OTHER than what the thread is about. Yup…welcome to the internet. 

Classic! Laughing

I hope Bryan just keeps.doing what he’s doing. I appreciate the time he takes us to keep us in the loop with his real world experience as a fairly damn good rider on one of the very few available examples of a new bike. 

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3
lumpy790
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6/1/2023 9:09am Edited Date/Time 6/1/2023 9:10am

If you pre ordered do you have to pick it up from your local dealer?

I did see a youtube video of a dealer in TX that has had a demo for 4 months.

Where is the USA warehouse located?

1
6/1/2023 9:34am
lumpy790 wrote:
If you pre ordered do you have to pick it up from your local dealer? I did see a youtube video of a dealer in TX...

If you pre ordered do you have to pick it up from your local dealer?

I did see a youtube video of a dealer in TX that has had a demo for 4 months.

Where is the USA warehouse located?

Those "demo" bikes that were floating around the country were non-functioning display bikes for display purposes. 

2
2
djr
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6/1/2023 10:36am

Those "demo" bikes that were floating around the country were non-functioning display bikes for display purposes. 

This is why people are skeptical.

Makes it sound like that Nikola electric truck company, where they had to roll the non-functioning truck down a hill to film a video, after telling lies about the truck being working and ready to go.

Do Honda, KTM etc give dealers non-functioning demo bikes ?

hellion
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Westfield, MA, USA
6/1/2023 11:12am

I’m paying attention to this.  Generally am resistant but also know that technology advances, either embrace it or move out of the way for those that do. 
 

Of course range is an issue as my rides are long.  But aside from that, my sticking point is that I’d like a clutch.  I use the clutch to modulate traction continuously, and traction control doesn’t fix that because with the clutch I can create traction or wheel spin.  But maybe more importantly, a finger on the clutch has saved me from many a disaster.  Some near crashes require a handful of throttle, some a quick pull of the clutch.  In the second scenario rolling off the throttle sometimes isn’t possible.  
 

I don’t hear any talk of this, but certainly I can’t be the only one…….

1
6/1/2023 11:16am Edited Date/Time 6/1/2023 11:16am

Those "demo" bikes that were floating around the country were non-functioning display bikes for display purposes. 

djr wrote:
This is why people are skeptical. Makes it sound like that Nikola electric truck company, where they had to roll the non-functioning truck down a hill...

This is why people are skeptical.

Makes it sound like that Nikola electric truck company, where they had to roll the non-functioning truck down a hill to film a video, after telling lies about the truck being working and ready to go.

Do Honda, KTM etc give dealers non-functioning demo bikes ?

I quoted "demo" bikes because Stark never called them demo bikes, they were simply non-functioning display bikes being passed around to dealers for information/training purposes, to prep dealerships (technicians, etc) before receiving production bikes, and to give a chance for some prospective customers to see what the bike looks like in person. No lies there. Whoever called them "demo" bikes is wrong, and i think that term has just been misappropriated through various channels and forums. 

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4
6/1/2023 11:16am

Those "demo" bikes that were floating around the country were non-functioning display bikes for display purposes. 

djr wrote:
This is why people are skeptical. Makes it sound like that Nikola electric truck company, where they had to roll the non-functioning truck down a hill...

This is why people are skeptical.

Makes it sound like that Nikola electric truck company, where they had to roll the non-functioning truck down a hill to film a video, after telling lies about the truck being working and ready to go.

Do Honda, KTM etc give dealers non-functioning demo bikes ?

Honda and KTM are not brand new companies with brand new bikes trying to setup a dealer network.   I don't see an issue with a non working display model.  No dealers around me let you test ride a bike before buying one anyway .  They had made it really clear it was not a working bike.  

As long as it feels to be taking , they are setting up a dealer network, training dealers  , building a manufacturing plant and figuring out a lot of the stuff in a much more public way than pretty much any other manufacturer. Then add on the Covid delays and it is not a surprise that they are not ontime.   

I think its better to be late and have a solid product , than ontime with a bike that has recalls or stop ride orders.  Very often Polaris will come out with a new model SXS and then have a stop ride order put out.  It is easier for me to say this since I am not waiting on one myself.  

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mog
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6/1/2023 11:33am

How are all the stark doubters ok with triumph ?

No real bikes, no real pictures, no production line pictures, no display bikes , no date for anything other than they say they will race in 24 , no deposit being taken, no information on weight, power or anything

Yet it's only stark that's in the limelight, which shows none of these things matter ,it's. Just because it's electric ...

 

Where are the threads on triumph ? I will wait ....

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8
6/1/2023 11:44am
GrapeApe wrote:
Not quite as nefarious as you make it sound, but yes, I think they shipped one customer bike at that time and promoted it as "customer...

Not quite as nefarious as you make it sound, but yes, I think they shipped one customer bike at that time and promoted it as "customer deliveries have begun". That is a true statement, but also a little disingenuous which was my point.

They did say "the first VARGs have been shipped"... https://www.facebook.com/starkfutureofficial/posts/pfbid0BigAhKamEjAsp7fJGa6xZJo7ecBFf2XpsAbanDmu4VK52a2iYHfzHUJ1U2y476csl their photo showed 6 bikes... If they were shipped to people who are...

They did say "the first VARGs have been shipped"...

https://www.facebook.com/starkfutureofficial/posts/pfbid0BigAhKamEjAsp7fJGa6xZJo7ecBFf2XpsAbanDmu4VK52a2iYHfzHUJ1U2y476csl

their photo showed 6 bikes...

Starks Shipped

If they were shipped to people who are riding them on their own land and don't want the neighbors to know, you wouldn't hear about it, not everyone rides on public land or has a social media presence.

or they only shipped one!

 
 

Loic Bruni and Jorge Zaragoza seem to own a Stark and look really good on it. Don’t think they paid for it, so maybe that’s where some of those bikes go. Reason I think they own them is because they ride other tracks instead of the usual Stark track. 

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38special
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6/1/2023 11:47am
mog wrote:
How are all the stark doubters ok with triumph ? No real bikes, no real pictures, no production line pictures, no display bikes , no date...

How are all the stark doubters ok with triumph ?

No real bikes, no real pictures, no production line pictures, no display bikes , no date for anything other than they say they will race in 24 , no deposit being taken, no information on weight, power or anything

Yet it's only stark that's in the limelight, which shows none of these things matter ,it's. Just because it's electric ...

 

Where are the threads on triumph ? I will wait ....

Triumph did not take people's money based on one set of specifications (specifically weight) and delivery dates, and then change them via carefully spun PR messages.  Triumph did not announce "we're in production and shipping bikes", and then 5-6 weeks later, only actually deliver 1 bike.

Triumph is behaving exactly as I'd expect a well established motorcycle manufacturer to behave.  They will show the bike when it's ready.

I am not against Stark or Customer #1, but I do raise an eyebrow to Stark's way of doing things so far.  They must assume we're all so stupid that we'll just take all the PR at face value and not take a step back and think for ourselves.

 

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thearc
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6/1/2023 12:47pm
hellion wrote:
I’m paying attention to this.  Generally am resistant but also know that technology advances, either embrace it or move out of the way for those that...

I’m paying attention to this.  Generally am resistant but also know that technology advances, either embrace it or move out of the way for those that do. 
 

Of course range is an issue as my rides are long.  But aside from that, my sticking point is that I’d like a clutch.  I use the clutch to modulate traction continuously, and traction control doesn’t fix that because with the clutch I can create traction or wheel spin.  But maybe more importantly, a finger on the clutch has saved me from many a disaster.  Some near crashes require a handful of throttle, some a quick pull of the clutch.  In the second scenario rolling off the throttle sometimes isn’t possible.  
 

I don’t hear any talk of this, but certainly I can’t be the only one…….

im a tech nerd and really want a bike that's good for hard enduro. The Stark looks awesome to me but no clutch for traction modulation and safety is what holds me back. Maybe one day they will make a model like ElectricMotion does with their electric trials bikes...those have clutches. 

2
lumpy790
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York, SC, USA
6/1/2023 1:02pm
lumpy790 wrote:
If you pre ordered do you have to pick it up from your local dealer? I did see a youtube video of a dealer in TX...

If you pre ordered do you have to pick it up from your local dealer?

I did see a youtube video of a dealer in TX that has had a demo for 4 months.

Where is the USA warehouse located?

Those "demo" bikes that were floating around the country were non-functioning display bikes for display purposes. 

I know there was 1 traveling around with a rep that was going to the Stark dealers for a day of display and tech training. Come to think of it 4 months ago was about the time the rep was traveling.

Training the dealers is another good sign that the units are getting close to hitting the dealerships soon.

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3
mog
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6/1/2023 1:29pm Edited Date/Time 6/1/2023 1:30pm
mog wrote:
How are all the stark doubters ok with triumph ? No real bikes, no real pictures, no production line pictures, no display bikes , no date...

How are all the stark doubters ok with triumph ?

No real bikes, no real pictures, no production line pictures, no display bikes , no date for anything other than they say they will race in 24 , no deposit being taken, no information on weight, power or anything

Yet it's only stark that's in the limelight, which shows none of these things matter ,it's. Just because it's electric ...

 

Where are the threads on triumph ? I will wait ....

38special wrote:
Triumph did not take people's money based on one set of specifications (specifically weight) and delivery dates, and then change them via carefully spun PR messages. ...

Triumph did not take people's money based on one set of specifications (specifically weight) and delivery dates, and then change them via carefully spun PR messages.  Triumph did not announce "we're in production and shipping bikes", and then 5-6 weeks later, only actually deliver 1 bike.

Triumph is behaving exactly as I'd expect a well established motorcycle manufacturer to behave.  They will show the bike when it's ready.

I am not against Stark or Customer #1, but I do raise an eyebrow to Stark's way of doing things so far.  They must assume we're all so stupid that we'll just take all the PR at face value and not take a step back and think for ourselves.

 

I believe stark has acted way more professional than triumph who say they have a bike and then show nothing, people want in depth analysis of Stark's inventory but expect nothing from triumph , £100 deposit, yes it's a scam lol 

You proved my point better than I could .... triumph announced they are entering Mx in July 21 and nearly 2 years later we don't have a single good picture ....stark have actual bikes but they are the ones who are conning people lol 😆

 

When will this revolutionary mx bike be for sale ,2025? 4 years later ... impressive 

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14
Goldmember
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6/1/2023 1:36pm

When does over optimism, then multiple missed delivery dates and fuzzy specifications turn into broken promises, then bullshit, and then outright lying?

 

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6/1/2023 1:41pm
hellion wrote:
I’m paying attention to this.  Generally am resistant but also know that technology advances, either embrace it or move out of the way for those that...

I’m paying attention to this.  Generally am resistant but also know that technology advances, either embrace it or move out of the way for those that do. 
 

Of course range is an issue as my rides are long.  But aside from that, my sticking point is that I’d like a clutch.  I use the clutch to modulate traction continuously, and traction control doesn’t fix that because with the clutch I can create traction or wheel spin.  But maybe more importantly, a finger on the clutch has saved me from many a disaster.  Some near crashes require a handful of throttle, some a quick pull of the clutch.  In the second scenario rolling off the throttle sometimes isn’t possible.  
 

I don’t hear any talk of this, but certainly I can’t be the only one…….

thearc wrote:
im a tech nerd and really want a bike that's good for hard enduro. The Stark looks awesome to me but no clutch for traction modulation...

im a tech nerd and really want a bike that's good for hard enduro. The Stark looks awesome to me but no clutch for traction modulation and safety is what holds me back. Maybe one day they will make a model like ElectricMotion does with their electric trials bikes...those have clutches. 

What would you guys think of some type of electronic clutch. That did the same thing as far as disengaging the power ,etc.  But it would be done via computer so that you wouldn't add the weight,oil and extra parts to the bike other than a lever and wire  from the lever. With Electric making all the torque at any RPM , you can do a lot with throttle control that is not possible on a Gas powered vehicle too.   

Adjustable in the App and could be on the bars using a lever or maybe something like a thumb throttle / or small trigger like lever on the left side so that a rear hand brake could also be an option. You could adjust how hard it was to pull too. Or how about like road bicycle shifters combine the brake lever and shifter. Combine the rear brake and   clutch . So you would kinda move the lever up and down for clutch and pull in for brake . Something like that, so that You can have the hand brake still.

I think the rear hand brake would be really handy for off road too. Less stuff to get grabbed by roots and rocks down low. And would allow you to be in any position on the bike and still hit the brake.   Being a taller rider I have trouble hitting the rear brake while   sometimes. Adjusting it is always a compromise if some direction.  

6/1/2023 2:02pm
Goldmember wrote:

When does over optimism, then multiple missed delivery dates and fuzzy specifications turn into broken promises, then bullshit, and then outright lying?

 

You already think it's bullshit, So you're already there.

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1
6/1/2023 2:25pm
Goldmember wrote:

When does over optimism, then multiple missed delivery dates and fuzzy specifications turn into broken promises, then bullshit, and then outright lying?

 

neverwas wrote:

You already think it's bullshit, So you're already there.

I was about to post the same thing, But then deleted it. and saw Your post and laughed.  Goldmember has said from the start it was all BS. So even if the bike came in lighter than a KTM 85, could recharge in 1 second and do a 69 minute moto, and Stark was beaming bikes directly to customers doorsteps and had delivered 18K of them , he would find more reasons they were not good or could never be good. 

 I really think he's just trying to get invited to the Stark factory. Its funny how much he helps promote the bike.  Just when a Varg thread starts slowing down, here comes Goldmember to bring it back to the top.

 

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4
mog
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Midlands, GB
6/1/2023 2:26pm
hellion wrote:
I’m paying attention to this.  Generally am resistant but also know that technology advances, either embrace it or move out of the way for those that...

I’m paying attention to this.  Generally am resistant but also know that technology advances, either embrace it or move out of the way for those that do. 
 

Of course range is an issue as my rides are long.  But aside from that, my sticking point is that I’d like a clutch.  I use the clutch to modulate traction continuously, and traction control doesn’t fix that because with the clutch I can create traction or wheel spin.  But maybe more importantly, a finger on the clutch has saved me from many a disaster.  Some near crashes require a handful of throttle, some a quick pull of the clutch.  In the second scenario rolling off the throttle sometimes isn’t possible.  
 

I don’t hear any talk of this, but certainly I can’t be the only one…….

thearc wrote:
im a tech nerd and really want a bike that's good for hard enduro. The Stark looks awesome to me but no clutch for traction modulation...

im a tech nerd and really want a bike that's good for hard enduro. The Stark looks awesome to me but no clutch for traction modulation and safety is what holds me back. Maybe one day they will make a model like ElectricMotion does with their electric trials bikes...those have clutches. 

What would you guys think of some type of electronic clutch. That did the same thing as far as disengaging the power ,etc.  But it would...

What would you guys think of some type of electronic clutch. That did the same thing as far as disengaging the power ,etc.  But it would be done via computer so that you wouldn't add the weight,oil and extra parts to the bike other than a lever and wire  from the lever. With Electric making all the torque at any RPM , you can do a lot with throttle control that is not possible on a Gas powered vehicle too.   

Adjustable in the App and could be on the bars using a lever or maybe something like a thumb throttle / or small trigger like lever on the left side so that a rear hand brake could also be an option. You could adjust how hard it was to pull too. Or how about like road bicycle shifters combine the brake lever and shifter. Combine the rear brake and   clutch . So you would kinda move the lever up and down for clutch and pull in for brake . Something like that, so that You can have the hand brake still.

I think the rear hand brake would be really handy for off road too. Less stuff to get grabbed by roots and rocks down low. And would allow you to be in any position on the bike and still hit the brake.   Being a taller rider I have trouble hitting the rear brake while   sometimes. Adjusting it is always a compromise if some direction.  

From what I have read from ev owners it's simply unnecessary, the clutch is needed on a ice as it lacks any torque at low revs , you manipulate the torque with the clutch , on ev you have enough torque that the throttle is enough 

Do you want to clutch a 80hp 938nm torque 110kg bike ? ....that's more torque  than a Harley I think ...

 

5
Titan1
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Lehi, UT, USA
6/1/2023 2:43pm
Goldmember wrote:

When does over optimism, then multiple missed delivery dates and fuzzy specifications turn into broken promises, then bullshit, and then outright lying?

 

neverwas wrote:

You already think it's bullshit, So you're already there.

I was about to post the same thing, But then deleted it. and saw Your post and laughed.  Goldmember has said from the start it was...

I was about to post the same thing, But then deleted it. and saw Your post and laughed.  Goldmember has said from the start it was all BS. So even if the bike came in lighter than a KTM 85, could recharge in 1 second and do a 69 minute moto, and Stark was beaming bikes directly to customers doorsteps and had delivered 18K of them , he would find more reasons they were not good or could never be good. 

 I really think he's just trying to get invited to the Stark factory. Its funny how much he helps promote the bike.  Just when a Varg thread starts slowing down, here comes Goldmember to bring it back to the top.

 

I think Goldmember (and a few others) has more of an issue with the stark cheerleaders, than the actual bike itself.  I think he just likes ruffling the feathers of the die hard cheerleaders who seem to believe Stark can do no wrong and it will, without a doubt, be the best bike ever made...

3
4
GrapeApe
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9021
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Location
Mc Kinney, TX, USA
6/1/2023 2:45pm
mog wrote:
How are all the stark doubters ok with triumph ? No real bikes, no real pictures, no production line pictures, no display bikes , no date...

How are all the stark doubters ok with triumph ?

No real bikes, no real pictures, no production line pictures, no display bikes , no date for anything other than they say they will race in 24 , no deposit being taken, no information on weight, power or anything

Yet it's only stark that's in the limelight, which shows none of these things matter ,it's. Just because it's electric ...

 

Where are the threads on triumph ? I will wait ....

Because Bobby Hewitt would never wear a turtleneck

 

5
2
6/1/2023 2:47pm
thearc wrote:
im a tech nerd and really want a bike that's good for hard enduro. The Stark looks awesome to me but no clutch for traction modulation...

im a tech nerd and really want a bike that's good for hard enduro. The Stark looks awesome to me but no clutch for traction modulation and safety is what holds me back. Maybe one day they will make a model like ElectricMotion does with their electric trials bikes...those have clutches. 

What would you guys think of some type of electronic clutch. That did the same thing as far as disengaging the power ,etc.  But it would...

What would you guys think of some type of electronic clutch. That did the same thing as far as disengaging the power ,etc.  But it would be done via computer so that you wouldn't add the weight,oil and extra parts to the bike other than a lever and wire  from the lever. With Electric making all the torque at any RPM , you can do a lot with throttle control that is not possible on a Gas powered vehicle too.   

Adjustable in the App and could be on the bars using a lever or maybe something like a thumb throttle / or small trigger like lever on the left side so that a rear hand brake could also be an option. You could adjust how hard it was to pull too. Or how about like road bicycle shifters combine the brake lever and shifter. Combine the rear brake and   clutch . So you would kinda move the lever up and down for clutch and pull in for brake . Something like that, so that You can have the hand brake still.

I think the rear hand brake would be really handy for off road too. Less stuff to get grabbed by roots and rocks down low. And would allow you to be in any position on the bike and still hit the brake.   Being a taller rider I have trouble hitting the rear brake while   sometimes. Adjusting it is always a compromise if some direction.  

mog wrote:
From what I have read from ev owners it's simply unnecessary, the clutch is needed on a ice as it lacks any torque at low revs...

From what I have read from ev owners it's simply unnecessary, the clutch is needed on a ice as it lacks any torque at low revs , you manipulate the torque with the clutch , on ev you have enough torque that the throttle is enough 

Do you want to clutch a 80hp 938nm torque 110kg bike ? ....that's more torque  than a Harley I think ...

 

I was going to say the same thing about the lack of needing one . WIth the way electric power is delivered slipping the clutch and such  should really never be needed and throttle control will replace a lot of that. 

 The only time I am thinking a clutch could come in handy would be if You are unable to let off the throttle quick enough . Since you can be pulled back on the bike by the power. Or in a bad position . I think trail riding would be  when you would might need to do something like that.  Some type of kill button , or throttle override if you are hard on the brake and throttle . You could set it to cut the power off  in a trail mode. Not totally kill the power, but reduce it by a certain % depending on how hard you are pulling the brakes, and what You set the level in the app to. I bet that it could all be done with software .  Maybe they would need some added sensors.

I've spent much more time on MX tracks than woods riding, so I am not the best person to comment on  not needing a clutch in the trails. On a track, I think I would be fine without a clutch , understanding how electric power feels along with limited experience  with electric propelled vehicles.    But the amazing stuff that can be done  and undone on electric is another reason I see it being a great way to power shorter range high performance vehicles.   

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6/1/2023 3:14pm
neverwas wrote:

You already think it's bullshit, So you're already there.

I was about to post the same thing, But then deleted it. and saw Your post and laughed.  Goldmember has said from the start it was...

I was about to post the same thing, But then deleted it. and saw Your post and laughed.  Goldmember has said from the start it was all BS. So even if the bike came in lighter than a KTM 85, could recharge in 1 second and do a 69 minute moto, and Stark was beaming bikes directly to customers doorsteps and had delivered 18K of them , he would find more reasons they were not good or could never be good. 

 I really think he's just trying to get invited to the Stark factory. Its funny how much he helps promote the bike.  Just when a Varg thread starts slowing down, here comes Goldmember to bring it back to the top.

 

Titan1 wrote:
I think Goldmember (and a few others) has more of an issue with the stark cheerleaders, than the actual bike itself.  I think he just likes...

I think Goldmember (and a few others) has more of an issue with the stark cheerleaders, than the actual bike itself.  I think he just likes ruffling the feathers of the die hard cheerleaders who seem to believe Stark can do no wrong and it will, without a doubt, be the best bike ever made...

Maybe, I think you are right about just liking to  aggravate people and not really caring about it either way.  He's been right there from the start with the Varg hating though. The early tests from media are just like every other early bike test I've read. Pointing out all of the stuff the bikes do well. Not really getting into the downsides until a shootout. But from the start he has called everybody that has ridden the bike biased. While I read and watched it like any other first impression video or test that I have read like I assume most people have done. 

 Bryan has talked about issues he has run into with the Varg. although he has not had many. And only having 4 hours on a bike, I would hope he did not have any. I think it was all charger or charging related and was taken care of . Software updates should still be fast to do  when they have 1000's  of bikes out there. Shipping replacement parts might be more tricky.  But really its crazy to think that out of all of the short  impressions ( Bryan having more time  than most) that have been put out that, there would be much that people would complain about unless the bike was a real turd. It doesn't mean that the bike doesn't do all of those things great like they have said. It might just mean that people did not notice things that they would like to change yet. Just like every other first impression bike test put out. 

I imagine that as people get more hours on them, that even the biggest lovers will find things they will change and or they would like different. I really think that people who have strong feelings against electric powered MX bikes, should go out and ride one. Or drive/ride a fast EV of some kind. Then they might understand the excitement, and what electric brings . 

Think about when you went from a flip phone to an iPhone or droid. All the new things that could be done very easy. The Varg and electric power could be motocross's smartphone.  

Natester551v
Posts
996
Joined
1/11/2015
Location
St. George, UT, USA
6/1/2023 3:17pm
thearc wrote:
im a tech nerd and really want a bike that's good for hard enduro. The Stark looks awesome to me but no clutch for traction modulation...

im a tech nerd and really want a bike that's good for hard enduro. The Stark looks awesome to me but no clutch for traction modulation and safety is what holds me back. Maybe one day they will make a model like ElectricMotion does with their electric trials bikes...those have clutches. 

What would you guys think of some type of electronic clutch. That did the same thing as far as disengaging the power ,etc.  But it would...

What would you guys think of some type of electronic clutch. That did the same thing as far as disengaging the power ,etc.  But it would be done via computer so that you wouldn't add the weight,oil and extra parts to the bike other than a lever and wire  from the lever. With Electric making all the torque at any RPM , you can do a lot with throttle control that is not possible on a Gas powered vehicle too.   

Adjustable in the App and could be on the bars using a lever or maybe something like a thumb throttle / or small trigger like lever on the left side so that a rear hand brake could also be an option. You could adjust how hard it was to pull too. Or how about like road bicycle shifters combine the brake lever and shifter. Combine the rear brake and   clutch . So you would kinda move the lever up and down for clutch and pull in for brake . Something like that, so that You can have the hand brake still.

I think the rear hand brake would be really handy for off road too. Less stuff to get grabbed by roots and rocks down low. And would allow you to be in any position on the bike and still hit the brake.   Being a taller rider I have trouble hitting the rear brake while   sometimes. Adjusting it is always a compromise if some direction.  

mog wrote:
From what I have read from ev owners it's simply unnecessary, the clutch is needed on a ice as it lacks any torque at low revs...

From what I have read from ev owners it's simply unnecessary, the clutch is needed on a ice as it lacks any torque at low revs , you manipulate the torque with the clutch , on ev you have enough torque that the throttle is enough 

Do you want to clutch a 80hp 938nm torque 110kg bike ? ....that's more torque  than a Harley I think ...

 

The idea that the clutch only acts to increase torque at low RPM is total bullshit; any decent enduro or hard enduro rider will tell you that it's a critical tool for technical riding.  So much so that every single world hard enduro guy completely rejects the Rekluse auto clutch.  There is plenty of hyperbole on both sides of the Stark issue already - no need to add to it with completely made up B.S.

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Natester551v
Posts
996
Joined
1/11/2015
Location
St. George, UT, USA
6/1/2023 3:31pm

And with respect to the clutch I'd say that any top level motocrosser would laugh at the idea of having no clutch to modulate power (Chad Reed and Eli Tomac come to mind).  It is absolutely true that the electric motor can deliver a much more linear (as in - straight line) power curve than an ICE engine but having to twist the throttle open or shut as the only means to control it is very limiting.  

And my apologies to mog for the overly harsh response - I could've been more articulate about it.  If Stark succeeds and begins to expand their lineup, they'll have to have a clutch option to reach certain riders.

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