Okay, the lavender and flashy colors look great, I understand fashion drive sales, all the PR and marketing.. but..
Herlings broke his foot landing from a jump, and he was not wearing the cheapest boots. That set him out for a year. Then Tomac last night, himself wearing some boots which we can assume are among the finest out there.
I have experienced a similar relatable injury a while back. Hear me out. I grew up with bad habit foot position on the pegs. Years go by and after some Graham Jarvis fun courses I opened my mind and repertoire of techniques, modern stuff. I found that I have to move my feet a lot, depending on the obstacles. Never truly balls of the feet only or plant only. Always shifting. That's just me. Tried expensive footpegs that were a few mm further back and it made night and day difference. Best mod I ever made on a bike.
A few years back I was experimenting on a long bumpy straight. I kept moving my feet further back on the pegs, to a point I would almost be riding on the tip of my toes.. to see how far I could maximize use of the ankles.
A little dip went by and I overstretched it bad. I was not going that fast, was not jumping.
I really expected my $600 boots to limit the hyper extension to a safe real stop, as advertised. They did not. I also never thought my feet could bend that further up. I recall that I did not expect the dip, so I was moderately relaxed, not as if I was bracing for a hard landing.
Sport Doctor told me age plays a big role. Older males ( late 20s-into 30s ) are more likely to sustain this type of injury. And the importance of stretching. We get stiffer, not everybody is the same.
There are old pictures of pros over stretching their heels upon landing big hard jumps while on their toes. Maybe not on purpose, and they were younger than Tomac. I recall in my youth having one foot slip off the peg upon a hard landing because the ankle would bend past/while too much on the toes. In hindsight, I think if my feet did not slip, I would have stretched my Achille's. Thank God old school narrow and slippery footpegs.
My point is... Alpinestars Protects? can you land a hard G while on your toes? How much protection is there and how much can be added?
Any brand out there with hinged exo-skeleton true supports co-molded in the boot, like the hinges of the knee braces? I have only seen plastic limitation straps so far. how do these work under true load?
My last thought on the topic. I think boots and knee braces should be combined. I have owned my share of boots and braces over the years, ride with and without. I found there is sometimes a conflict between the two, but if combined, the protection of both could be improved.
My next topic: Stab proof kevlar inserts in butt patches... Would it have protected Deano?
Always been Alpinestars since childhood, but I've been looking at the Leatt 5.5 boot. They have some interesting features and additional adjustments.
I'm not going into any comparisons or what-ifs on the Tomac scenario, that's pretty damn disappointing for anyone and everyone who likes supercross and/or motocross.
The butthole plate-carrier is an amusing concept, I'll give you that, and I'm sure Deano would have appreciated it.
Funny... I've slowly got more Leatt gear over the years. Every time because a friend recommends me a specific item over issues I have with the brand I am loyal to. These Leatt Boots deserve a try, thanks for the tip!
One thing to keep in mind is that the Tech 10s that the riders (top riders) use are custom made. They could be much softer and thus less protective than what we can buy from a dealer. Or vice versa, stiffer because of a previous injury etc.
Hyper dorsal flexion is what the photos show.
Short of a strong plaster or fibreglass cast no usable MX boots are going to prevent a calcaneus tendon failure.
That bit of rope routinely takes 10 times the body weight reacting against the calf muscle and that force will easily over power the boot's leather and plastic.
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The balls of your feet style riding helps because your lower legs act as suspension, I guess there’s a limit to how much this extra suspension can tolerate.
I’ve been adapting my style to ride this way over lay couple years, and definitely notice lower leg soreness when I out running within a few days of riding.
If anything related to boot and safety you should look towards Gaerne SG12 or the new SG22 and look less towards the "made in China" Leatt...
You highlighted a major problem I see (most likely not with pro riders I’d assume) how many people you see stretching at your local track? I’m not talking about forearms, I’m talking full body stretching. Especially the older ones? It’s crazy to me the amount of people getting ready to go do one of the most physically demanding sports on the planet and spend zero time getting themselves ready to do it. It’s mind blowing to me.
Have a listen to the Denver Post Race show between Lewis and ML .
Within the first 1/2 hour they discuss how a few riders, including Tomac, went to modified Alpinestars boots with reduced ankle / Achilles protection in favour of more flexibility.
Be curious to see the money spent on marketing compared to R&D from the major gear manufacturers.
So your argument is that boot safety is related to where it's made...not how it's designed?
No it was not really, but yes if you like,
If we compare a boot that is designed in South Africa (or anywhere else) and then outsourced production to a third party factory that is only in it for the money and is not brand conected = how do we produce this boot as cheap as possible so that both we and the "boot-designing" company makes money.
on the other side we have family run business with inhouse development, design and production all within the same walls with years and years of experience and is also known as the top MX boot ever to be made (SG12 has won every test i´ve ever read)
The heritage of making boots in the little town of Treviso, Gaerne, Aplinestars, Sidi (all within a miles distance from eachother) etc makes up for a healthy competition and has pushed the development so far ahead from anybody else making boots, they are invested by heart to make the best and safest boots there is to aquire. if you get the chance to visit them i would recomend it and you will understand what i am on about.
The only one still making their boots in Treviso is Gaerne since Alpinestars moved their production overseas.
what was your argument?
Tech 10’s are made in Croatia. Yes it is ‘over seas’ but literally adjacent to Italy.
The current generation tech 10 has a ‘flexion bridge’ which is like a little shock absorber between the bottom and middle buckle. There are a number of riders that do remove that for more flexibility and it appeared that Tomac didn’t have it on his boots. Jett is another one that doesn’t run it. Not saying that would have saved his foot but it’s worth mentioning at least. Top riders have a long history of favoring comfort over protection and this is just another example.
Agreed, I started mixing in yoga and static stretching before riding. I feel way better on the bike.
All my friends tell me Im gay when I tell them to do yoga, its just active stretching, you don't have to add in all the namaste hippie stuff to it. They struggle to ride two days in a row from soreness also.
I probably look like a try hard tool but I stretch and use a message gun before doing a full body band workout as I get ready. I have a humongous pump and am usually sweaty before I ever start the bike. I also run or row before I drive to the track. You'd never go into the gym and start just BLASTING regardless of age, why do it at the track?
Genuine question, isn't there an issue with transferring forces? If you place a limit on the dorsal flexion of the ankle, where does the force that causes the movement go? Into the shins? Would it not transfer the force from the ankle to the knee instead?
I’m 40, still able to keep up with the fast b group.
Always been an Astars tech 7 guy.
About a month ago I tried on a pair of leatt 5.5 and haven’t looked back.
Achilles pain and lower calf pain were not really an issue but my foot does feel more secure as the leatt has a pretty substantial amount more control in that area.
The older I get the more these pains and aches creep up. These boots seemed to have at least helped in that aspect.
Maybe I’m crazy and it’s just a placebo by they sure are more secure feeling whilst riding on the balls of my feet.
It's odd there is still the "macho" phenotype these days. So much information at our fingertips, yet "why you doin that queer yoga shit?" Very strange...
It has helped me tremendously with balance and flexibility in my hips.
Pit Row
It may be odd to you but do you not value machismo?
Anyways, it gets called gay because mostly lesbians and hippies do it as a part of unlocking chakras since Yoga is literally part of Hindu spiritualism. Yoga is a religious practice. Everyone calls it gay because it is. Now, active stretching or whatever is different. You wont catch me dead at a yoga class though.
My SG12 have quite a bit of ankle movement. I wouldn't call them the most protection in this area. After a hard ride or a 2hr+ hare my ankles hurt more than anything else. I would like to try the Leatt as well they do seem to have a better ankle stop.
Are the SG12 craft footwear? Yes. Does that mean its the highest quality or its quality can't be matched? No.
I like them but I will be trying another brand before trying the SG22/12 again.
I'll let you in on something REALLLL gay... I am stronger than ever and i attribute it to glute strength. I'm like an instagram girl at the gym straight pumping these glutes. The amount of stability and posterior strength i have gained is absurd, it's like cheating on the bike. My back is never sore, and I feel so strong from the waist down it's like I'm a tree. Anyways, take that for what it's worth and see what you think.
I just listened to that podcast on the way into work this morning. I have a pair of tech 10s, and they really limit ankle motion in the direction that would potentially tear an achilles. I have seen people posting the boots suck and and others saying no boot would protect against this injury. Obviously no boot will protect against all injuries, but the more protective the boot the more severe an occurrence will have to be to cause injury. From my own experience, the stops on side hinges don't do much. If you flex the boots really far the hinge area will bow out and lose control of the stop point. The Astars method of the extra plastic between buckles can take more force than a hinge stop. The Sidi version on the Atojo also can do this. The Sidi strap is small and doesn't look like it should work, however it feels nearly as supportive as the Astars. The sidi strap has the side benefit of reducing hyper extension as well as hyper flexion.
The weakness in Astars boots (all of them including the 10) is the foot protection at the front half of the boot. Gaerne and Sidi are way ahead of Astars on that. That is more of a problem off-road than moto though.
Yes you are exactly right, it would actually put pressure into hyperextending your knee if you had no dorsal flexion of the ankle. Same kind of idea with knee braces, the force has to go somewhere with knee braces it puts it into a strong bone vs a vulnerable joint but still.
They could ride on their arches again like back in the day which would prevent an Achilles tear but youd have guys exploding in the whoops and jumps left and right.
Link?
The issue isn’t the base boot lacking protection. The issue is it actually provides too much protection; so much so that a large number of these guys strip safety features off them to allow for flexibility and feel.
In all honestly, it’s probably safer to strip the boots to allow the rider to have better feel and movement especially in SX. It’s not like we see ankles and achilles giving out on a weekly basis. The Tech 10 is far too stiff out of the box for practical purposes.
No way these guys are going to go through whoops nearly as fast without a ton of ankle flexion, I saw a slow motion video of Craig in the whoops and its almost like his whole lower body was stationary except his ankles.
I’ve worn boots of all sorts and the Garnae feels the safest to me. People complain that you can’t feel anything in the garnaes cause there so heavy duty
Re: your 1st paragraph. I sure hope you don’t think that Leatt just designs something sends it off to China and gets in return whatever cheap mess the factory decides to send out to be sold.
I sure hope you don't truly believe the Leatt 5.5 is on the same protection level as the Tech 10. And I'm not a Tech 10 guy, but have owned Leatt 5.5's. It's not close.
I posted this in another topic but I think it fits here as well.
I did a quick search and about a million athletes are believed to have Achilles tendon injuries each year. They are injured and all sorts of ways, shit just happens, nothing or no one to blame.
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