Is the sport of Motocross past its prime?

early
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4/24/2023 6:15pm
Titan1 wrote:
I don't think the industry should hang their entire future on vacant lots in neighborhoods...but they certainly can make a lot of headway into getting new...

I don't think the industry should hang their entire future on vacant lots in neighborhoods...but they certainly can make a lot of headway into getting new riders into the sport by working to keep riding areas open...Whether that's the public land on the edge of a neighborhood, a trail system in the nearby national forest/BLM land, the local track, or the open recreation area on the outskirts of town....the "industry" as a whole keeping their head in the sand to riding areas constantly getting closed isn't helping get new riders into the sport. 

The industry (manufacturers, dealers, online retailers, pro riders and race teams, etc. etc.) really should start working together to protect riding areas, all riding areas.  That means throwing their money, and their influence, into fighting land closures (either from annoying NIMBY types, environmental groups, urban sprawl, industry, etc.).  Pay for lawyers, user their influence to sway people to use the land responsibly, donate money to rider advocacy groups (BRC, AMA), use their influence to encourage riders to donate to rider advocacy groups (Imagine Eli Tomac on the big screen at every supercross encouraging everyone in attendance to scan this barcode and join the Blue Ribbon Coalition?  Or team KTM giving out BRC membership pamplets at their pits with every autograph, Imagine dealers including a BRC or AMA membership with every machine purchased-they are like $40 a year?  Imagine dealers educating their customers on how to responsibly use their machine on public land...Imagine Yamaha offering to pay the attorney fees to help someone fight to keep a track open...I could go on and on).   

Anyway, its not the sole solution...but it will absolutely help get new riders in the sport.

Completely agree that the industry has been asleep at the wheel (bars?) regarding a concerted effort to raise awareness and funds to keep tracks and riding areas open. If you live East of the Mississippi it's mostly private land and tracks with the occasional publicly open private riding area, or state or national forest that's legal to ride in. Most harescramle venues are raceday only. Most of the private land is either family farms or old quarries that have been forgotten. Who wants to drop even $4k on just a decent used bike and gear to go to some old quarry and hope the cops don't show up or some trouble makers looking to take your bike at gunpoint? You can spend that on a really nice mountain bike and show up at free legal trails at your leisure, it's not the same as riding a motorcycle but I'm sure alot of posters here have made the calculation that they will keep an old dirtbike around and buy a new mountain bike because they get alot more use out of the pedal bike do to convenience.

The one redeeming factor is that the empty lot at the end of the street or backyard still work for riding stacycs and other kids electric bikes. Hopefully these kids never lose the itch to twist a throttle.

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Cobbler
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4/24/2023 6:33pm
Back in 1979 my yz125 cost me 11 weeks salary, I was a 1st year electrical apprentice. 2023 apprentice salary, and the yz125 will cost about...

Back in 1979 my yz125 cost me 11 weeks salary, I was a 1st year electrical apprentice.

2023 apprentice salary, and the yz125 will cost about 21 weeks.

 

He gets it.

This sport takes up too large of a chunk of income to be a hobby, it's a "lifestyle" now. I'm sure some of you think that is cool but when it comes down to family matters or a hobby, most men are doing the right thing. Plus, regular people are tired of weighing out "dang can we go out to dinner and ride this weekend without violating our savings goals". 

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4/24/2023 6:50pm

One thing that doesn't make me think it's past it's prime is the number of bike manufacturers.  We have 8.  20 years ago we had 4. This is strictly talking U.S. motocross and what 98% of the bikes were on the gate.  Convince me manufacturers are starting new lines of race bikes and all the tooling if sales have been trending down over the last decade or two.  Nah, I don't buy it.  Maybe these bikes are mostly sitting in the garage or being trail ridden.  

4/24/2023 6:59pm
Back in 1979 my yz125 cost me 11 weeks salary, I was a 1st year electrical apprentice. 2023 apprentice salary, and the yz125 will cost about...

Back in 1979 my yz125 cost me 11 weeks salary, I was a 1st year electrical apprentice.

2023 apprentice salary, and the yz125 will cost about 21 weeks.

 

Twice the price but you're getting twice the bike.  Comparing oranges and apples.

In a perfect world people would consider less to be more.  The manufacturers keep pushing the envelope as far as technology and performance.  That isn't free.  People can bitch all they want about price but they sure aren't lining up to buy RMZs.  Maybe Suzuki is the unseen hero that unwittingly tried to save the sport.  I think if you can't kickstart a bike then....... yeah, whatever people.

Anyway I agree is a shame bikes are so expensive.  Point is, you're getting something for the money.  

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The Shop

TDeath21
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4/24/2023 8:30pm

It definitely is in my opinion. What caused it is where the debate is.

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mxb2
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4/24/2023 9:02pm
Back in 1979 my yz125 cost me 11 weeks salary, I was a 1st year electrical apprentice. 2023 apprentice salary, and the yz125 will cost about...

Back in 1979 my yz125 cost me 11 weeks salary, I was a 1st year electrical apprentice.

2023 apprentice salary, and the yz125 will cost about 21 weeks.

 

Twice the price but you're getting twice the bike.  Comparing oranges and apples. In a perfect world people would consider less to be more.  The manufacturers...

Twice the price but you're getting twice the bike.  Comparing oranges and apples.

In a perfect world people would consider less to be more.  The manufacturers keep pushing the envelope as far as technology and performance.  That isn't free.  People can bitch all they want about price but they sure aren't lining up to buy RMZs.  Maybe Suzuki is the unseen hero that unwittingly tried to save the sport.  I think if you can't kickstart a bike then....... yeah, whatever people.

Anyway I agree is a shame bikes are so expensive.  Point is, you're getting something for the money.  

Exactly, comparing 40 year bikes and prices. Lol .
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Magoofan
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4/24/2023 10:00pm Edited Date/Time 12/11/2023 11:02am
Magoofan wrote:

Electric is only going to hasten the demise.

Silas444 wrote:
Full disclosure: I downvoted you, Magoofan, as I often do - but I did so with respect. You are a principled man, and over time, I've...

Full disclosure: I downvoted you, Magoofan, as I often do - but I did so with respect. You are a principled man, and over time, I've learned that.

It stands to reason that the more places there are to ride, the more people we'd have engaging in the sport, if only because they'd notice that the sport is a flat-out BLAST to participate in. Let me illustrate my point by taking it to an extreme. If there were only two places in the whole country to ride, moto would most certainly die; whereas if every town had a local track, the sport would most certainly thrive. Right? Right. So then, what is the primary reason there isn't a local track in every town? Hmmm? The answer is the exact same reason so many tracks are closing down: noise pollution complaints.

Way, way, too few of you understand is how pronounced and intractable the noise problem is for a track owner. Most track owners PAY their neighbors not to complain about it. One guy I knew paid his bitchiest neighbor a grand a month from May 'till November to keep him quiet - and that was just for ONE neighbor. He had a list, the operative word here being, "had," as he's closed down now. Most track owners aren't rich, and therefore, these "hush money" payouts are among their largest off-the-top fixed expenses. The noise pollution problem is not new: pipe-builder Darryl Bassani integrated an ecology symbol into his company's logo way back in the early 70s, because too many bikes back then had no silencers whatsoever and his pipes had them built-in. The slogan "Less sound, more ground" became a very popular sentiment back then, there were even stickers made up that we put on our bikes to declare our support for the idea. That idea seems almost absurd now, but it most certainly is not.  

So then, is the sport past its prime? If it fails to perceive electric as the lifeline it is, then yes, without question. So go ahead, don't give an inch, throw the idea of compromise out the window, let your purist flag fly and declare that you'll NEVER ride an electric bike, but do so knowing that 100 percent of nothing............. is nothing.

LESS SOUND, MORE GROUND.

 

I appreciate the full disclosure and well thought out response.      ...and no offense taken.      I really don't care if someone downvotes me.

I will say this.   It ain't the noise that is the ultimate goal of the enviros to kill this sport.   

It sounds as if you've been around the sport a long time.    Do you remember the battles with BLM and Sierra Club?   How about "The Phantom Duck of the Desert".     Rick Sieman (Dirt Bike magazine editor of the early years) too.....these men are heroes to this sport.     It was never about the noise....

 

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Magoofan
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4/24/2023 10:10pm Edited Date/Time 4/24/2023 10:11pm
     As a kid, I could ride out of my garage, down the street ( obviously illegal ) and catch a trail to 4 or...

     As a kid, I could ride out of my garage, down the street ( obviously illegal ) and catch a trail to 4 or 5 riding areas. We would literally ride railroad tracks, trails, in fields, and on motocross tracks. Neighbors were all around, but they did not bother you all that much.Throw in the occasional police chase, and you had an epic summer for years on end. I lived in Massachusetts then, and although the state has never been friendly towards motorized off road vehicles ( snowmobiles , motorbikes ) , if you were not stupid about tormenting the neighbors, you had more fun than you could stand ! One more quick point, the 1970’s was the pinnacle of the sport’s growth .

This is also  my story.  Rode out the gate of our house into the Santa Monica MTNS....    Neighbors didn't care as long as you were respectful.   Horse owners liked us riding the trails...it kept them smooth.   We had horses too, so we understood how to behave when coming up on horse owners. 

Sure, it was technically illegal to ride, but we rarely got hassled by the law.    I got caught riding along Mulhulland HWY, and the cop just said...."walk it till you get to the trail son".

Loved growing up in the era I did.

 

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Ryan625
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4/24/2023 11:47pm

I'm probably wrong (usually am) but I think moto peaked between 2000 and 2010. You won't convince me otherwise, because that's when I peaked 😂

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wardy
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4/25/2023 1:19am

Value.  it's that simple.

You want 12 lap motos, and don't want to sit around all day?  need to have 1/3 the classes.  the other side of that sword are you willing to pay 75.00 per class?  25.00 gate fee?  

A very wise older man told me long ago and he was spot on.  More classes offered = less track time, and in reality it's how tracks raise their fees.  Offer new "xyz" class you produce another "winner" and gain entries.  

How do you think the national program works, stock, mod, age classes, classification classes etc.   it's all revenue.

Moto has for a long time morphed into a process of a ton of sitting and not a bunch of racing.  

With that said.  Today's riders expect perfect flowing tracks, groomed to perfection, and it has to be sunny and 68*.  Rain, cold, wind, anything like this and a bunch will stay home.  

Costs have jumped as well. 10k bikes, hell my kids won't get them muddy often.  Lets also not forget that running through a sloppy mud hole and have your kill switch short out (honda) makes for a wasted day as well.

Is there a cure?  the short term is over promotion, and give more stuff away, while offering things that others can't.  long term who knows, the way things are going lets hope we still have a way to enjoy riding at all.  clock is ticking................ Oh and GP racing and off road racing has a different value that many old riders enjoy.  When 50cc riders are breaking femurs its time to slow it and tame it down.  yep i am old.

 

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Alan Dove
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4/25/2023 3:44am Edited Date/Time 4/25/2023 3:44am

Depends how you define peak. All motorsports have that specific time where cultural relevance, novelty and accessibility overlap and you get an explosion of interest and vibrancy that can never be replicated. What follows is a plateau or decline as things normalise. 

 

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4/25/2023 3:48am Edited Date/Time 4/25/2023 3:54am

All great points boys. I think it’s a mix of numerous things. I even always say healthcare in this country plays a part and doesn’t help either. Back in the day it was a lot cheaper when you went to the hospital with a broken arm. Then there is the whole insurance covering it or Not BS. Off work for a bit always hurts the bottom line too. 

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Alan Dove
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4/25/2023 4:04am
All great points boys. I think it’s a mix of numerous things. I even always say healthcare in this country plays a part and doesn’t help...

All great points boys. I think it’s a mix of numerous things. I even always say healthcare in this country plays a part and doesn’t help either. Back in the day it was a lot cheaper when you went to the hospital with a broken arm. Then there is the whole insurance covering it or Not BS. Off work for a bit always hurts the bottom line too. 

With have a national health service in the UK and you'll hear exactly the same stuff said here about whatever activity you can think of.

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Spoonguy
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4/25/2023 4:13am Edited Date/Time 4/25/2023 4:15am

Like any other outdoor using groups it is up to the members of that group and nobody else to secure the sport's future. In my state hunters have thousands upon thousands of acres set aside for them to use in the state game lands. Likewise golfers, snowmobilers, ATVers, and skiers have thousands of acres for their game as well. I worked with the state of Pennsylvania briefly on behalf of off road motorcycling and sadly nobody gives a solitary shit amongst riders, manufacturers, media, or aftermarket when it comes right down to it. Everybody is willing to talk a big game, but when it comes to actually organizing or doing something/anything it's all over. The AMA is useless, the other splinter groups supposedly advocating for offroad motorcycle use are more interested in listening to themselves talk like "experts" than achieving anything, realistically our sport is doomed. We simply do not organize or advocate for ourselves, at all. Most of us are too individualistic, and headstrong to organize, we certainly bitch enough but to do what is needed will never happen. Sadly, or simply, I think it is about getting several hundred thousand dollars in campaign contributions to the right politicians, and there is no way off road motorcyclists could organize enough to do that. We need to organize, we need powerful people in our corner, and we will not do that. Of course it is easier for us to blame outside forces instead for our sports decline, isn't it?

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4/25/2023 5:33am Edited Date/Time 4/25/2023 5:47am
moto543 wrote:
I remember racing the 125 C class at Millville in the mid 90's and we had 3 gates for that class and 2 gates of the...

I remember racing the 125 C class at Millville in the mid 90's and we had 3 gates for that class and 2 gates of the 250 C class. Vet, +25  and the B classes were full gates. Practice was insane! I think it's the cost price anymore. With housing, food and health insurance so expensive, people just don't have extra money to spend on hobbies anymore. Maybe they feel it's better to save for a rainy day?

Back then, what were your biggest purchases? A 25” color tv was a luxury, an oven/ stove, a washer/ dryer, a stereo, a car. That was probably it. There was probably a bar in your neighborhood. Divorce was unlikely. 
 

Today: multiple flat screen TVs, multiple subscription streaming services, XBOX, multiple Bluetooth speakers, heavy, safe, high powered trucks and cars, alimony payments, child support payments, a pool payment, a giant grill, a toy hauler payment, college/ university, traveling sports teams, a mistress, Air Jordan’s, expensive running shoes, an MTB, BMX, and road bike, special athletic gear, eat out all the time, buy designer coffee, live on energy drinks, a DUI,  etc…

 

We have gotten incredibly more expensive on our own. 
 

The old guys did it all in jeans and with a cigarette. 

11
4/25/2023 5:38am
Juck wrote:

Probably, but I do think electric bikes could have the potential to bring in new people, although I think it's unlikely to be a significant amount.

Few people really need the capabilities of the current 250/ 450 Fs that are being sold. 
 

I guess, give me the current frame, probably a 200/ 300/ 350, 8” of suspension and a reasonable track without supercross obstacles and I’m in. 

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ATKpilot99
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4/25/2023 6:36am
Back in 1979 my yz125 cost me 11 weeks salary, I was a 1st year electrical apprentice. 2023 apprentice salary, and the yz125 will cost about...

Back in 1979 my yz125 cost me 11 weeks salary, I was a 1st year electrical apprentice.

2023 apprentice salary, and the yz125 will cost about 21 weeks.

 

Twice the price but you're getting twice the bike.  Comparing oranges and apples. In a perfect world people would consider less to be more.  The manufacturers...

Twice the price but you're getting twice the bike.  Comparing oranges and apples.

In a perfect world people would consider less to be more.  The manufacturers keep pushing the envelope as far as technology and performance.  That isn't free.  People can bitch all they want about price but they sure aren't lining up to buy RMZs.  Maybe Suzuki is the unseen hero that unwittingly tried to save the sport.  I think if you can't kickstart a bike then....... yeah, whatever people.

Anyway I agree is a shame bikes are so expensive.  Point is, you're getting something for the money.  

mxb2 wrote:
Exactly, comparing 40 year bikes and prices. Lol .

You have completely missed the point . He's saying it takes approximately twice as long to pay for an equivalent machine now as it did then with a similar occupation.  

7
MotofactioN
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4/25/2023 7:33am
moto543 wrote:
I remember racing the 125 C class at Millville in the mid 90's and we had 3 gates for that class and 2 gates of the...

I remember racing the 125 C class at Millville in the mid 90's and we had 3 gates for that class and 2 gates of the 250 C class. Vet, +25  and the B classes were full gates. Practice was insane! I think it's the cost price anymore. With housing, food and health insurance so expensive, people just don't have extra money to spend on hobbies anymore. Maybe they feel it's better to save for a rainy day?

Back then, what were your biggest purchases? A 25” color tv was a luxury, an oven/ stove, a washer/ dryer, a stereo, a car. That was...

Back then, what were your biggest purchases? A 25” color tv was a luxury, an oven/ stove, a washer/ dryer, a stereo, a car. That was probably it. There was probably a bar in your neighborhood. Divorce was unlikely. 
 

Today: multiple flat screen TVs, multiple subscription streaming services, XBOX, multiple Bluetooth speakers, heavy, safe, high powered trucks and cars, alimony payments, child support payments, a pool payment, a giant grill, a toy hauler payment, college/ university, traveling sports teams, a mistress, Air Jordan’s, expensive running shoes, an MTB, BMX, and road bike, special athletic gear, eat out all the time, buy designer coffee, live on energy drinks, a DUI,  etc…

 

We have gotten incredibly more expensive on our own. 
 

The old guys did it all in jeans and with a cigarette. 

We had all that shit aside from “subscriptions” back in the day too. 
 

All the vehicles we had back in the day were considered “high powered” and “technologically advanced” at one time.

Rememeber how much a new tv used to cost? You can now get a nice flat screen for like $200. Damn right I’m gonna buy a couple of them. 

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Sandusky26
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4/25/2023 7:44am

IMG 20230425 104028 7.jpg?VersionId=z5A1P9KY1kA5S

 You guys can thank a NYPD cock sucker and a bitch from Cuba for this 

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APLMAN99
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Fantasy
4/25/2023 8:28am
moto543 wrote:
I remember racing the 125 C class at Millville in the mid 90's and we had 3 gates for that class and 2 gates of the...

I remember racing the 125 C class at Millville in the mid 90's and we had 3 gates for that class and 2 gates of the 250 C class. Vet, +25  and the B classes were full gates. Practice was insane! I think it's the cost price anymore. With housing, food and health insurance so expensive, people just don't have extra money to spend on hobbies anymore. Maybe they feel it's better to save for a rainy day?

Back then, what were your biggest purchases? A 25” color tv was a luxury, an oven/ stove, a washer/ dryer, a stereo, a car. That was...

Back then, what were your biggest purchases? A 25” color tv was a luxury, an oven/ stove, a washer/ dryer, a stereo, a car. That was probably it. There was probably a bar in your neighborhood. Divorce was unlikely. 
 

Today: multiple flat screen TVs, multiple subscription streaming services, XBOX, multiple Bluetooth speakers, heavy, safe, high powered trucks and cars, alimony payments, child support payments, a pool payment, a giant grill, a toy hauler payment, college/ university, traveling sports teams, a mistress, Air Jordan’s, expensive running shoes, an MTB, BMX, and road bike, special athletic gear, eat out all the time, buy designer coffee, live on energy drinks, a DUI,  etc…

 

We have gotten incredibly more expensive on our own. 
 

The old guys did it all in jeans and with a cigarette. 

Divorce was much more likely back in the 90s than today.  I paid more for my 32" TV in 94 than I paid for my 65" TV 3 years ago, also.  In actual dollars, not adjusted for inflation.  

Divorce rate

 

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early
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4/25/2023 8:49am
We had all that shit aside from “subscriptions” back in the day too.    All the vehicles we had back in the day were considered “high...

We had all that shit aside from “subscriptions” back in the day too. 
 

All the vehicles we had back in the day were considered “high powered” and “technologically advanced” at one time.

Rememeber how much a new tv used to cost? You can now get a nice flat screen for like $200. Damn right I’m gonna buy a couple of them. 

Pretty unbelievable when people whip out the old "flat screen tv" slur

3
DEMONDAVE
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4/25/2023 9:12am

i think its several factors affecting motocross, bike prices, gas prices, availability of local tracks, the Biden economy has triggered staggering cost increases in everything so hobbies are not as important as everyday things.

I'm not sure how you guys with 2 / 3 or kids survive and have any hobby money, of course location plays into that too, home prices and availability of homes to purchase is a huge factor.

 

4
Jesse318pnw
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4/25/2023 9:24am

It does suck to wait 9 hours to race 4-5 laps but back in the day (90's for me) that was the case and we didn't care.  The reason we didn't care is because we were hanging out with friends, watching them race and more importantly watching local pro's and intermediates.  The races were the place to be on the weekends.  

Races need to be entertaining when racers on not on the track.  I wish more industry companies made it lucrative for local pros to show up to pro purse events and race to where they can make a decent living like Rick Ryan and others used to do in the bay area.  Then more riders want to show up

In Washington if Carson Brown could make say $80K/year racing locally I think the gates would be fuller because it would be the place to be.  His competitors would also show up and you would get some positive momentum going again.

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4/25/2023 10:59am Edited Date/Time 4/25/2023 11:36am
moto543 wrote:
I remember racing the 125 C class at Millville in the mid 90's and we had 3 gates for that class and 2 gates of the...

I remember racing the 125 C class at Millville in the mid 90's and we had 3 gates for that class and 2 gates of the 250 C class. Vet, +25  and the B classes were full gates. Practice was insane! I think it's the cost price anymore. With housing, food and health insurance so expensive, people just don't have extra money to spend on hobbies anymore. Maybe they feel it's better to save for a rainy day?

Back then, what were your biggest purchases? A 25” color tv was a luxury, an oven/ stove, a washer/ dryer, a stereo, a car. That was...

Back then, what were your biggest purchases? A 25” color tv was a luxury, an oven/ stove, a washer/ dryer, a stereo, a car. That was probably it. There was probably a bar in your neighborhood. Divorce was unlikely. 
 

Today: multiple flat screen TVs, multiple subscription streaming services, XBOX, multiple Bluetooth speakers, heavy, safe, high powered trucks and cars, alimony payments, child support payments, a pool payment, a giant grill, a toy hauler payment, college/ university, traveling sports teams, a mistress, Air Jordan’s, expensive running shoes, an MTB, BMX, and road bike, special athletic gear, eat out all the time, buy designer coffee, live on energy drinks, a DUI,  etc…

 

We have gotten incredibly more expensive on our own. 
 

The old guys did it all in jeans and with a cigarette. 

We had all that shit aside from “subscriptions” back in the day too.    All the vehicles we had back in the day were considered “high...

We had all that shit aside from “subscriptions” back in the day too. 
 

All the vehicles we had back in the day were considered “high powered” and “technologically advanced” at one time.

Rememeber how much a new tv used to cost? You can now get a nice flat screen for like $200. Damn right I’m gonna buy a couple of them. 

No you didn’t unless you are calling 2010 back in the day. 
-Divorce was uncommon. From 1950-1960 less than 400,000 divorces happened per year. In 1970 total divorces were almost 800,000 and in 1980, 1.2 million. 
- In the mid 70s alimony and child support laws were reworked giving women more and addressing non supportive fathers. It wasn’t until the mid 80s these changes became effective. 
- The average car in the 60s made 227 hp, in 1970s, 96 hp, in 1980s, 110 hp, in 1990s, 132, in 2000s, 165 hp, in 2010s, 247 hp. Over 40 years to get back to 1960s level of power. 
- A fat 1969 Boss 429 weighed 3,600 lbs while a 2023 Mach 1 weighs 4,100 lbs. Cars are heavier  

-Average fuel economy in 1980 was 17 mpg with select American cars getting over 40 mpg on the highway. It’s taken 40 years to get back to this but the average car can. 
- Ataris in the 70s we’re rare and expensive. Every kid has a game system today. 
- Most had a HIFI with turntable that’s it. A color TV was a massive purchase. 

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early
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4/25/2023 11:14am Edited Date/Time 4/25/2023 11:15am
No you didn’t unless you are calling 2010 back in the day.  -Divorce was uncommon. From 1950-1960 less than 400,000 divorces happened per year. In 1970...

No you didn’t unless you are calling 2010 back in the day. 
-Divorce was uncommon. From 1950-1960 less than 400,000 divorces happened per year. In 1970 total divorces were almost 800,000 and in 1980, 1.2 million. 
- In the mid 70s alimony and child support laws were reworked giving women more and addressing non supportive fathers. It wasn’t until the mid 80s these changes became effective. 
- The average car in the 60s made 227 hp, in 1970s, 96 hp, in 1980s, 110 hp, in 1990s, 132, in 2000s, 165 hp, in 2010s, 247 hp. Over 40 years to get back to 1960s level of power. 
- A fat 1969 Boss 429 weighed 3,600 lbs while a 2023 Mach 1 weighs 4,100 lbs. Cars are heavier  

-Average fuel economy in 1980 was 17 mpg with select American cars getting over 40 mpg on the highway. It’s taken 40 years to get back to this but the average car can. 
- Ataris in the 70s we’re rare and expensive. Every kid has a game system today. 
- Most had a HIFI with turntable that’s it. A color TV was a massive purchase. 

When was the last time you drove a car from the 60's? They sucked ass to drive unless you were going in a straight line with no stops, they weren't fast, my minivan could smoke the average 60's car.

Hifi, color TV, video games oh my! Flat-screen tvs are $300, so are video game systems, I have almost every song ever recorded in my pocket. 

Choose wisely when you get married. Don't knock up some crazy chick then have a shotgun wedding.

These things aren't hard, the world isn't going to wait around to listen oldies complaining. We are going to move forward.

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4/25/2023 11:38am
No you didn’t unless you are calling 2010 back in the day.  -Divorce was uncommon. From 1950-1960 less than 400,000 divorces happened per year. In 1970...

No you didn’t unless you are calling 2010 back in the day. 
-Divorce was uncommon. From 1950-1960 less than 400,000 divorces happened per year. In 1970 total divorces were almost 800,000 and in 1980, 1.2 million. 
- In the mid 70s alimony and child support laws were reworked giving women more and addressing non supportive fathers. It wasn’t until the mid 80s these changes became effective. 
- The average car in the 60s made 227 hp, in 1970s, 96 hp, in 1980s, 110 hp, in 1990s, 132, in 2000s, 165 hp, in 2010s, 247 hp. Over 40 years to get back to 1960s level of power. 
- A fat 1969 Boss 429 weighed 3,600 lbs while a 2023 Mach 1 weighs 4,100 lbs. Cars are heavier  

-Average fuel economy in 1980 was 17 mpg with select American cars getting over 40 mpg on the highway. It’s taken 40 years to get back to this but the average car can. 
- Ataris in the 70s we’re rare and expensive. Every kid has a game system today. 
- Most had a HIFI with turntable that’s it. A color TV was a massive purchase. 

early wrote:
When was the last time you drove a car from the 60's? They sucked ass to drive unless you were going in a straight line with...

When was the last time you drove a car from the 60's? They sucked ass to drive unless you were going in a straight line with no stops, they weren't fast, my minivan could smoke the average 60's car.

Hifi, color TV, video games oh my! Flat-screen tvs are $300, so are video game systems, I have almost every song ever recorded in my pocket. 

Choose wisely when you get married. Don't knock up some crazy chick then have a shotgun wedding.

These things aren't hard, the world isn't going to wait around to listen oldies complaining. We are going to move forward.

Ok. 

APLMAN99
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Location
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Fantasy
4/25/2023 12:07pm
Back then, what were your biggest purchases? A 25” color tv was a luxury, an oven/ stove, a washer/ dryer, a stereo, a car. That was...

Back then, what were your biggest purchases? A 25” color tv was a luxury, an oven/ stove, a washer/ dryer, a stereo, a car. That was probably it. There was probably a bar in your neighborhood. Divorce was unlikely. 
 

Today: multiple flat screen TVs, multiple subscription streaming services, XBOX, multiple Bluetooth speakers, heavy, safe, high powered trucks and cars, alimony payments, child support payments, a pool payment, a giant grill, a toy hauler payment, college/ university, traveling sports teams, a mistress, Air Jordan’s, expensive running shoes, an MTB, BMX, and road bike, special athletic gear, eat out all the time, buy designer coffee, live on energy drinks, a DUI,  etc…

 

We have gotten incredibly more expensive on our own. 
 

The old guys did it all in jeans and with a cigarette. 

We had all that shit aside from “subscriptions” back in the day too.    All the vehicles we had back in the day were considered “high...

We had all that shit aside from “subscriptions” back in the day too. 
 

All the vehicles we had back in the day were considered “high powered” and “technologically advanced” at one time.

Rememeber how much a new tv used to cost? You can now get a nice flat screen for like $200. Damn right I’m gonna buy a couple of them. 

No you didn’t unless you are calling 2010 back in the day.  -Divorce was uncommon. From 1950-1960 less than 400,000 divorces happened per year. In 1970...

No you didn’t unless you are calling 2010 back in the day. 
-Divorce was uncommon. From 1950-1960 less than 400,000 divorces happened per year. In 1970 total divorces were almost 800,000 and in 1980, 1.2 million. 
- In the mid 70s alimony and child support laws were reworked giving women more and addressing non supportive fathers. It wasn’t until the mid 80s these changes became effective. 
- The average car in the 60s made 227 hp, in 1970s, 96 hp, in 1980s, 110 hp, in 1990s, 132, in 2000s, 165 hp, in 2010s, 247 hp. Over 40 years to get back to 1960s level of power. 
- A fat 1969 Boss 429 weighed 3,600 lbs while a 2023 Mach 1 weighs 4,100 lbs. Cars are heavier  

-Average fuel economy in 1980 was 17 mpg with select American cars getting over 40 mpg on the highway. It’s taken 40 years to get back to this but the average car can. 
- Ataris in the 70s we’re rare and expensive. Every kid has a game system today. 
- Most had a HIFI with turntable that’s it. A color TV was a massive purchase. 

You replied to the poster who very clearly said that he was referring to the mid-90s.  None of the things you replied with were all that accurate for that time period, but especially the divorce thing.  There are about half as many divorces now than there were then, and there were only about 200K more last year than what you are claiming for 1950-1960, with a much higher population.  

This is just a case of reality not matching up with what you believe/have been told to believe to be true.  

Ob917
Posts
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Cardiff, CA, USA
4/25/2023 4:43pm Edited Date/Time 4/26/2023 7:11am

I don’t think most people who can afford a bike these days have any clue how to change oil, properly clean and oil a filter and for hell sake they can’t do a top end on juniors crf250r, or would bother to. Also sucks a good quart of oil cost like $23.

It’s very expensive and you need to be in 100% for it to be worth the effort and expense. 

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1
4/25/2023 6:15pm Edited Date/Time 4/25/2023 6:53pm
Twice the price but you're getting twice the bike.  Comparing oranges and apples. In a perfect world people would consider less to be more.  The manufacturers...

Twice the price but you're getting twice the bike.  Comparing oranges and apples.

In a perfect world people would consider less to be more.  The manufacturers keep pushing the envelope as far as technology and performance.  That isn't free.  People can bitch all they want about price but they sure aren't lining up to buy RMZs.  Maybe Suzuki is the unseen hero that unwittingly tried to save the sport.  I think if you can't kickstart a bike then....... yeah, whatever people.

Anyway I agree is a shame bikes are so expensive.  Point is, you're getting something for the money.  

mxb2 wrote:
Exactly, comparing 40 year bikes and prices. Lol .
ATKpilot99 wrote:
You have completely missed the point . He's saying it takes approximately twice as long to pay for an equivalent machine now as it did then...

You have completely missed the point . He's saying it takes approximately twice as long to pay for an equivalent machine now as it did then with a similar occupation.  

But the machine isn't equivalent, not by a mile.  If you wanted an equivalent machine compared to the 1980's I would argue it would be cheaper today vs back then.

I suppose you're one of those people who argue that cars have gone up in price over the last 40 years... When actually they haven't when you consider how long they last.  It's nothing to get 200k out of an engine these days.  You got half that 40 years ago if you were lucky.  Not to mention parts like brakes and belts last magnitudes longer today.  I could go on.  

So the problem is people want state of the art machinery.  And then upgrade at least every two years.  Is that really necessary racing in the amateur ranks?  That's why I brought up the point about Suzuki being old school and people aren't lining up for the bike even at a discount.  Look at how much people nitpick over these bikes and then you wonder why they are so expensive?  The manufacturers have to keep up with the competition by offering new, state of the art technology.  If you don't you're just a Suzuki.    

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2
Timo
Posts
1469
Joined
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Location
Wichita, KS, USA
4/25/2023 10:05pm
Titan1 wrote:
To me it comes down to losing places to ride right next to neighborhoods.  How many people here got into riding because they saw there neighbors...

To me it comes down to losing places to ride right next to neighborhoods.  How many people here got into riding because they saw there neighbors buzzing up and down the street on their bikes going into the hills next to the neighborhood to ride...then begged mom/dad for a bike, and started riding with them?  I know I did!  The kids in my neighborhood don't have that option...all the neighbors see now is me loading and unloading my bikes...

On the electric front...quick story...a colleague of mine emailed me out of blue last week, saying her son went riding with some friends and now wants a bike (she knows I ride)...but didn't know where to start...I asked what bike they were on and where they were riding...she sends me a picture of her son on a KTM e5, riding in an empty lot right in their neighborhood.   So I found a couple used e5's online and sent her the link, sent her a link to a youth helmet, jersey, pants, boots, goggles, and gloves at RockyMountain...I had an email this morning with her son on his new (to him) bike in all his new gear.  Say what you want about ebikes...but those kids aren't buzzing around that vaccant lot on a KTM 50sx without anyone complaining.

If emx bikes can open up neighborhood riding areas...they will get more kids into dirt bikes. 

Non-riding parents aren't going to (or at least are significantly less likely to) get into a sport they know nothing about if they have to trailer 30 minutes to 2 hours to ride. 

Being able to ride out of my garage to my river trails is definitely affecting my wife's hunt for a bigger newer house! I bring up the amount of money and time it'll take to load a trailer, drive across town, unload....

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