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Completely agree that the industry has been asleep at the wheel (bars?) regarding a concerted effort to raise awareness and funds to keep tracks and riding areas open. If you live East of the Mississippi it's mostly private land and tracks with the occasional publicly open private riding area, or state or national forest that's legal to ride in. Most harescramle venues are raceday only. Most of the private land is either family farms or old quarries that have been forgotten. Who wants to drop even $4k on just a decent used bike and gear to go to some old quarry and hope the cops don't show up or some trouble makers looking to take your bike at gunpoint? You can spend that on a really nice mountain bike and show up at free legal trails at your leisure, it's not the same as riding a motorcycle but I'm sure alot of posters here have made the calculation that they will keep an old dirtbike around and buy a new mountain bike because they get alot more use out of the pedal bike do to convenience.
The one redeeming factor is that the empty lot at the end of the street or backyard still work for riding stacycs and other kids electric bikes. Hopefully these kids never lose the itch to twist a throttle.
He gets it.
This sport takes up too large of a chunk of income to be a hobby, it's a "lifestyle" now. I'm sure some of you think that is cool but when it comes down to family matters or a hobby, most men are doing the right thing. Plus, regular people are tired of weighing out "dang can we go out to dinner and ride this weekend without violating our savings goals".
One thing that doesn't make me think it's past it's prime is the number of bike manufacturers. We have 8. 20 years ago we had 4. This is strictly talking U.S. motocross and what 98% of the bikes were on the gate. Convince me manufacturers are starting new lines of race bikes and all the tooling if sales have been trending down over the last decade or two. Nah, I don't buy it. Maybe these bikes are mostly sitting in the garage or being trail ridden.
Twice the price but you're getting twice the bike. Comparing oranges and apples.
In a perfect world people would consider less to be more. The manufacturers keep pushing the envelope as far as technology and performance. That isn't free. People can bitch all they want about price but they sure aren't lining up to buy RMZs. Maybe Suzuki is the unseen hero that unwittingly tried to save the sport. I think if you can't kickstart a bike then....... yeah, whatever people.
Anyway I agree is a shame bikes are so expensive. Point is, you're getting something for the money.
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It definitely is in my opinion. What caused it is where the debate is.
I appreciate the full disclosure and well thought out response. ...and no offense taken. I really don't care if someone downvotes me.
I will say this. It ain't the noise that is the ultimate goal of the enviros to kill this sport.
It sounds as if you've been around the sport a long time. Do you remember the battles with BLM and Sierra Club? How about "The Phantom Duck of the Desert". Rick Sieman (Dirt Bike magazine editor of the early years) too.....these men are heroes to this sport. It was never about the noise....
This is also my story. Rode out the gate of our house into the Santa Monica MTNS.... Neighbors didn't care as long as you were respectful. Horse owners liked us riding the trails...it kept them smooth. We had horses too, so we understood how to behave when coming up on horse owners.
Sure, it was technically illegal to ride, but we rarely got hassled by the law. I got caught riding along Mulhulland HWY, and the cop just said...."walk it till you get to the trail son".
Loved growing up in the era I did.
I'm probably wrong (usually am) but I think moto peaked between 2000 and 2010. You won't convince me otherwise, because that's when I peaked 😂
Value. it's that simple.
You want 12 lap motos, and don't want to sit around all day? need to have 1/3 the classes. the other side of that sword are you willing to pay 75.00 per class? 25.00 gate fee?
A very wise older man told me long ago and he was spot on. More classes offered = less track time, and in reality it's how tracks raise their fees. Offer new "xyz" class you produce another "winner" and gain entries.
How do you think the national program works, stock, mod, age classes, classification classes etc. it's all revenue.
Moto has for a long time morphed into a process of a ton of sitting and not a bunch of racing.
With that said. Today's riders expect perfect flowing tracks, groomed to perfection, and it has to be sunny and 68*. Rain, cold, wind, anything like this and a bunch will stay home.
Costs have jumped as well. 10k bikes, hell my kids won't get them muddy often. Lets also not forget that running through a sloppy mud hole and have your kill switch short out (honda) makes for a wasted day as well.
Is there a cure? the short term is over promotion, and give more stuff away, while offering things that others can't. long term who knows, the way things are going lets hope we still have a way to enjoy riding at all. clock is ticking................ Oh and GP racing and off road racing has a different value that many old riders enjoy. When 50cc riders are breaking femurs its time to slow it and tame it down. yep i am old.
Depends how you define peak. All motorsports have that specific time where cultural relevance, novelty and accessibility overlap and you get an explosion of interest and vibrancy that can never be replicated. What follows is a plateau or decline as things normalise.
All great points boys. I think it’s a mix of numerous things. I even always say healthcare in this country plays a part and doesn’t help either. Back in the day it was a lot cheaper when you went to the hospital with a broken arm. Then there is the whole insurance covering it or Not BS. Off work for a bit always hurts the bottom line too.
With have a national health service in the UK and you'll hear exactly the same stuff said here about whatever activity you can think of.
Like any other outdoor using groups it is up to the members of that group and nobody else to secure the sport's future. In my state hunters have thousands upon thousands of acres set aside for them to use in the state game lands. Likewise golfers, snowmobilers, ATVers, and skiers have thousands of acres for their game as well. I worked with the state of Pennsylvania briefly on behalf of off road motorcycling and sadly nobody gives a solitary shit amongst riders, manufacturers, media, or aftermarket when it comes right down to it. Everybody is willing to talk a big game, but when it comes to actually organizing or doing something/anything it's all over. The AMA is useless, the other splinter groups supposedly advocating for offroad motorcycle use are more interested in listening to themselves talk like "experts" than achieving anything, realistically our sport is doomed. We simply do not organize or advocate for ourselves, at all. Most of us are too individualistic, and headstrong to organize, we certainly bitch enough but to do what is needed will never happen. Sadly, or simply, I think it is about getting several hundred thousand dollars in campaign contributions to the right politicians, and there is no way off road motorcyclists could organize enough to do that. We need to organize, we need powerful people in our corner, and we will not do that. Of course it is easier for us to blame outside forces instead for our sports decline, isn't it?
Back then, what were your biggest purchases? A 25” color tv was a luxury, an oven/ stove, a washer/ dryer, a stereo, a car. That was probably it. There was probably a bar in your neighborhood. Divorce was unlikely.
Today: multiple flat screen TVs, multiple subscription streaming services, XBOX, multiple Bluetooth speakers, heavy, safe, high powered trucks and cars, alimony payments, child support payments, a pool payment, a giant grill, a toy hauler payment, college/ university, traveling sports teams, a mistress, Air Jordan’s, expensive running shoes, an MTB, BMX, and road bike, special athletic gear, eat out all the time, buy designer coffee, live on energy drinks, a DUI, etc…
We have gotten incredibly more expensive on our own.
The old guys did it all in jeans and with a cigarette.
Few people really need the capabilities of the current 250/ 450 Fs that are being sold.
I guess, give me the current frame, probably a 200/ 300/ 350, 8” of suspension and a reasonable track without supercross obstacles and I’m in.
You have completely missed the point . He's saying it takes approximately twice as long to pay for an equivalent machine now as it did then with a similar occupation.
We had all that shit aside from “subscriptions” back in the day too.
All the vehicles we had back in the day were considered “high powered” and “technologically advanced” at one time.
Rememeber how much a new tv used to cost? You can now get a nice flat screen for like $200. Damn right I’m gonna buy a couple of them.
Pit Row
You guys can thank a NYPD cock sucker and a bitch from Cuba for this
Divorce was much more likely back in the 90s than today. I paid more for my 32" TV in 94 than I paid for my 65" TV 3 years ago, also. In actual dollars, not adjusted for inflation.
Pretty unbelievable when people whip out the old "flat screen tv" slur
i think its several factors affecting motocross, bike prices, gas prices, availability of local tracks, the Biden economy has triggered staggering cost increases in everything so hobbies are not as important as everyday things.
I'm not sure how you guys with 2 / 3 or kids survive and have any hobby money, of course location plays into that too, home prices and availability of homes to purchase is a huge factor.
It does suck to wait 9 hours to race 4-5 laps but back in the day (90's for me) that was the case and we didn't care. The reason we didn't care is because we were hanging out with friends, watching them race and more importantly watching local pro's and intermediates. The races were the place to be on the weekends.
Races need to be entertaining when racers on not on the track. I wish more industry companies made it lucrative for local pros to show up to pro purse events and race to where they can make a decent living like Rick Ryan and others used to do in the bay area. Then more riders want to show up
In Washington if Carson Brown could make say $80K/year racing locally I think the gates would be fuller because it would be the place to be. His competitors would also show up and you would get some positive momentum going again.
No you didn’t unless you are calling 2010 back in the day.
-Divorce was uncommon. From 1950-1960 less than 400,000 divorces happened per year. In 1970 total divorces were almost 800,000 and in 1980, 1.2 million.
- In the mid 70s alimony and child support laws were reworked giving women more and addressing non supportive fathers. It wasn’t until the mid 80s these changes became effective.
- The average car in the 60s made 227 hp, in 1970s, 96 hp, in 1980s, 110 hp, in 1990s, 132, in 2000s, 165 hp, in 2010s, 247 hp. Over 40 years to get back to 1960s level of power.
- A fat 1969 Boss 429 weighed 3,600 lbs while a 2023 Mach 1 weighs 4,100 lbs. Cars are heavier
-Average fuel economy in 1980 was 17 mpg with select American cars getting over 40 mpg on the highway. It’s taken 40 years to get back to this but the average car can.
- Ataris in the 70s we’re rare and expensive. Every kid has a game system today.
- Most had a HIFI with turntable that’s it. A color TV was a massive purchase.
When was the last time you drove a car from the 60's? They sucked ass to drive unless you were going in a straight line with no stops, they weren't fast, my minivan could smoke the average 60's car.
Hifi, color TV, video games oh my! Flat-screen tvs are $300, so are video game systems, I have almost every song ever recorded in my pocket.
Choose wisely when you get married. Don't knock up some crazy chick then have a shotgun wedding.
These things aren't hard, the world isn't going to wait around to listen oldies complaining. We are going to move forward.
Ok.
You replied to the poster who very clearly said that he was referring to the mid-90s. None of the things you replied with were all that accurate for that time period, but especially the divorce thing. There are about half as many divorces now than there were then, and there were only about 200K more last year than what you are claiming for 1950-1960, with a much higher population.
This is just a case of reality not matching up with what you believe/have been told to believe to be true.
I don’t think most people who can afford a bike these days have any clue how to change oil, properly clean and oil a filter and for hell sake they can’t do a top end on juniors crf250r, or would bother to. Also sucks a good quart of oil cost like $23.
It’s very expensive and you need to be in 100% for it to be worth the effort and expense.
But the machine isn't equivalent, not by a mile. If you wanted an equivalent machine compared to the 1980's I would argue it would be cheaper today vs back then.
I suppose you're one of those people who argue that cars have gone up in price over the last 40 years... When actually they haven't when you consider how long they last. It's nothing to get 200k out of an engine these days. You got half that 40 years ago if you were lucky. Not to mention parts like brakes and belts last magnitudes longer today. I could go on.
So the problem is people want state of the art machinery. And then upgrade at least every two years. Is that really necessary racing in the amateur ranks? That's why I brought up the point about Suzuki being old school and people aren't lining up for the bike even at a discount. Look at how much people nitpick over these bikes and then you wonder why they are so expensive? The manufacturers have to keep up with the competition by offering new, state of the art technology. If you don't you're just a Suzuki.
Being able to ride out of my garage to my river trails is definitely affecting my wife's hunt for a bigger newer house! I bring up the amount of money and time it'll take to load a trailer, drive across town, unload....
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