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Only $10 for all 2026 SX, MX, and SMX series.
and your hands and garage stay clean!
Agree! So tired of cleaning air filters!
I think it is a very cool bike and put a deposit on two. Didn't think it would take this long to get it though. I'm sure the Japanese have better in the works now.
A few points that you missed about the Varg and YZ ,
With that much time your going to go through $500 in air filter oil alone ( sarcastic guesswork on the filter oil ). nevermind the time to clean them, engine oil, clutches. If you go by what they say to do as far as replacing engine internals You'll got through a bunch more than $500 even if you get dealer cost on parts and do all the work yourself and have all the special tools needed to do said work. Of course in the real world many riders will ride their 450 and not do anything other than change the oil and do an air filter. But if you are riding enough to put 5 tanks of gas through your bike on a single ride day, and doing 96 of them, Your going to need to do a decent amount of rebuilding.
The Varg Comes with suspension setup for You and your style of riding, so that can be $700 on the very cheap end or a couple thousand. If again IF the Varg is everything that it is claimed to be, it might be more fair to compare with one of the Factory Edition bikes pricewise. You said it yourself that Stark says that they say you do not have to do anything to the motor at all with all of those hours. Check your Yamaha manual and see how much they say should be done with the amount of hours you would be putting on the bike. WHo knows, maybe the motors will need to be serviced more often than they think. Or there could be a defect here and there. If Electric is manufactured at the scale that gas bikes are now, then electric WILL be much less expensive to make. Lithium can be recycled , but it is much more specialized and not as cost effective as it is to recycle the materials most of the YZ has ( it also has a battery).
And Then it comes back around to what is important to you. Do you have a place that you could ride if the bike was not as loud? Like say a backyard track that You could roll out of your garage and ride with no driving . But the second you start up your 450 the neighbors call the cops, You could factor in the money spent on legal fees to fight so you could ride your gas bike at your house. Or ride a Varg and people may never know you even have a track. Maybe not driving an hour or 2 round trip alone is worth the extra cost at first. Maybe that lack of traveltime will allow you to ride more days. Like in the spring and fall when there is less daylight. And Charge speeds are reduced to an hour, if your able to ride through a full charge and need to charge from dead to full each time, by having the higher speed charging option at your home. But then I suppose you'll have to factor in the cost of owning your own track if cost alone is the deciding factor.
Maybe You live where there are many tracks and you have a few hundred acres you can ride out your garage from. In that case the Gas bikes are clear winners for you. I really do not think that ANYBODY that wants a Varg is saying that everybody should buy one. Nobody is forcing anybody to buy an electric MX bike. Just like some people choose a KTM over a Yamaha, or ride MX instead of off road, its all about the bike that fits what they want to do with it.
I could make a comparison chart that shows the Varg wins if certain things are more important to me, just like your gas winning chart. After the purchase the varg will cost less to ride and maintain to Stark specs than ANY gas bike. when comparing on Hour to hour of ridetime. But unfortunately this sport is not the best sport to be in if your goal is saving money. Again just like a review thread of a KTM , nobody is saying that You must buy one over a Yamaha, or that for you the KTM will work better . A review is based off of the reviewers opinions. Many many people say how each new generation KTM is a game changer and best MX bike ever. Yet people still buy other brands for whatever reason they buy them. The Varg might be just another option, or it could be the spark that lights a drastic change in MX and SX. Either Way that doesn't mean its going to be the best bike for everybody. But arguing that its not the best bike ever, before its out. Is as bad as saying its the best bike ever before its out.
Lithium is mainly sourced by siphoning briny water from underground caves to the surface and collecting the material left after evaporation. Still has environmental concerns, like I said, but it is not the picture in the meme.
Have any Altas had battery/motor failures? From what I've heard, none have failed, and a while ago Josh Hill had over 500 hours on one of his with no battery life or performance loss. To me, that's a lot more comparable to what the Varg will be than RC cars.
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Can I mute you?
Lol, you guys foreal?
I'd hate for the dirtbike stuff to mess up your nail polish...
Yes, for real, and im a gear head. I do all my own mechanical work on all my vehicles. Have done numerous motor rebuilds on gas bikes. I do my own suspension rebuilds and revalves, etc. Electric is far more reliable (performs 100% the same every time you use them), requires way less maintenance, and are not nearly as dirty to work on when doing the little amount of maintenance required on them. Just straight facts. I do not and will not miss changing air filters, clutches, engine and transmission oil, etc.
I have more problems with my gas generator than any of my electric appliances and vehicles, combined, by far.
Is electric for everyone? Maybe not. But for my use cases, theres no better choice.
And Stark is not the government taking your gas bikes away, I don't know why the fuck this is so hard for people to grasp.
As someone who has worked in pretty hellish conditions for a living, it's nice not having your whole life be dirty.
And as far as anybody taking gas bikes away, nobody has posted any proposed laws saying that gas bikes will not be allowed to be used still. Just that they may not be produced after a certain date.
Poor argument.
Stark are complicit, even if only they, and any potential customers, are mere useful idiots for the Marxist ideologues now long-game dictating your choices.
The existence of electric bikes and recreational vehicles makes it much easier for Big Government to say "well you have these BEV's to replace ICE", no matter that they are inadequate.
I don't like getting my garage or hands dirty, so I'll ride electric. Not realizing some kid in 3rd world county is having to get his hands dirty for you. Out of sight, out of mind, the American way!
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2023/02/01/1152893248/red-cob…
Just wondering if you have any intentions of getting a Storm Bee, or why that wasn't on your radar? I see some dealers have them in stock now in CA.
I ride primarily motocross and the storm bee is not a motocross bike.
Really? You don't think that's coming? They have made it illegal to use gas blowers and weed whips in some areas, you think it's a stretch to add non-license plate bikes? And the kicker is they made it illegal for the yard tools to be operated on private property. So there is that.
TM
Let me guess.....California?
Maybe in a very limited area like the gas yard tools have been banned. But I would guess that the lawn equipment was/is a bigger polluter than gas powered bikes . With so many being poorly maintained and running rich, smoking. And annoying neighbors much more than ICE dirtbikes. I think that lawmakers would get much more support for that law than a law banning bas bikes.
I geuss the way the world is going anything is possible. But I doubt there will ever be the support needed to pass a federal ban on gas powered dirt bikes. Start a petition, A facebook group , and make it known how much support there is to keep limited use gas powered bikes legal to use before they have a chance to pass the law. Do something that can help stop the laws from passing if you believe that is the direction they are going. The way the Supreme court has been deciding things, taking power from the EPA. I only see gas dirt bikes going away if there is not any pushback.Or if they are just that much better and have the range to do everything a gas bike can do. Then like the walkman, VCR , 8 track, etc the numbers will naturally thin to a point that its not a problem worth addressing. And if gas bikes do go away, wouldn't you like to still be able to ride, and have it be on a better performing, more reliable machine?
I really think the main motive behind an all EV future is money. EV's are much more profitable to make. And Money makes the world go around.
holy cow. that's like saying gas bike riders are complicit in massive oil spills. 4/20 was yesterday, man!
Pit Row
This is a fun theory, but man you're so far off.
I'm not aware of any Alta owner having to replace their electric motors in their bikes. These motors are very durable and will easily outlast the 1000 charge cycle lifecycle of the battery.
And, if you've had to replace it after a very rare case of one failing, it does not cost anywhere near $7000 to replace the motor in one of these. You can buy a complete Alta bulkhead with motor for $2200 right now. https://www.ebay.com/itm/202922957001
Not sure why you added charger price into the equation as it comes priced in with the bike. And while we're on the charging topic, charging time depends on how much battery is used and how much you want to add back in to the battery. It'll take roughly 1 minute to gain 1% in a 6000wh battery pack (which i think its understated). 400cells * (4.2Ah * 3.7v) = 6,216wh. And that's assuming the use of a 21700 p42a cell.
The battery is potentially the priciest part to replace, but you shouldn't have to worry about that for at least 5 years, and likely longer. I've noticed minimal degradation with my Alta MXR battery after 4.5 years, and I'm sure other owners can say the same. And you have to think, these are highly stressed battery packs that are constantly being fully charged and high amp discharged. They take a beating. After 5 years, likely by that time batteries reaching 500wh/kg energy density are a reality and it's worth upgrading to get double the range for the same weight. That said, each 21700 cell is roughly $6 at market price and 400 of them means $2400 in cells alone. add probably another $1000 for the rest of the components that make up a complete battery pack. But that's using today's prices. These batteries will be cheaper in 5 years.
Charging time at the track can be a little long at times with the 3.3kw charger. On my Alta i usually will use about 65% of the battery in a 20 minute practice moto. It takes an hour to recharge back to full from 35%. I definitely need a solid 20-30 minutes to recover anyway, so at times the extra 30 minutes waiting. If a track is only open 9-2, i'll only plan to get 4 20ish minute motos in. moto at 9, 10:30, 12, 1:30. Its annoying for me when tracks like Perris close the entire track to let the water truck out. Sometimes that'll cut into my "schedule". Not the track's fault, its just my problem.
Hoping Stark will eventually release Elcon's 6.6kw charger which will cut charge times almost in half. 420V at 15A means 3.75A supplied to each cell, which is well within the safe charge rate for these cells (4.2A or 1C being the upper safe limit, and double that if within 15-45*C).
People can certainly spend $800+ on a quality generator, but my 5500watt 240v generator cost me half that and suits my needs. If Stark ever decides to sell a more powerful charger i'll either upgrade to a 8000+ watt or maybe by that time i'll just be charging off a 240v 30A plug from an electric pickup truck.
My biggest expense is track entry fees. Next is tires, and then beyond that is just as needed stuff. I go through tires about the same rate as a 450 i'd say.
What isn't factored into your equation is the HOURS of time saved not having to wrench so much on an electric dirtbike. Think about how much time is spent just performing routine maintenance on your gas bike. 20 minutes every ride changing air filter. 30 minutes every 5 rides or so changing oil. 30 minutes changing clutch every 20-30 hours. 1-4 hours rebuilding your engine every 40 hours. Add up the time spent doing just those basic things and that's time I have for more riding or other things. I also no longer have those expenses.
lots of good points on both sides of the debate, but the one factor that I (and many others) haven't seen addressed properly is range and time on the batteries for anything other than amateur moto. Even with the best software tricks to manage battery life, the physics and battery tech simply do not support anywhere near the same range as an ICE engine. I did a 130-mile offroad loop a while back on my KTM 500 XC-W with a 3.5-gal IMS tank and had at least 0.5 gal left. My current 450 XCF has the stock tank (2.25-gal), and I'm pretty confident I could go 60-70 miles on my loops (no way at race pace, but technical trail riding at a fast pace). I gotta be pretty convinced that I'm not going to have to charter a helicopter to get my bike out of some remote canyon before I drop that much cheddar on a novel new tech.
But I'm not too stressed about it, because my Varg delivery date is 31 December, and I should have at least 6-months of user feedback before I have to pay the remaining $13k....
They have said up to 6 hours . If the range on a MX track is similar to the full tank on a 450 gas bike. The trail range should be similar to that same bike ridden on a trail. I know a person with an Alta that can only get 15ish minutes at speed at Southwick, but then can go out and trail ride for hours. It seems like gas bikes, the range will vary dramatically depending on how fast your riding. If your riding a lot of steep downhills You might get added range with the regen braking. That would be another interesting test to see. How much range can be added back by cranking up the engine braking. If it would help or hurt by adding heat.
I too only want a motocross bike. They actually advertise it as an MX bike, the product page shows it jumping at a motocross track. The only bad downside I can see to it is the suspension. There are hardly any reviews for it too, weird.
Lets just say I have some inside information...
This is the type fear mongering that makes headlines on major news.
You ride a big 500 in the woods? What flavor?
Bravo! Squatch! A one sentence reply!!!
1st .. indeed, well done Sasquatch !
2nd. The last two pages have been vital HOF worthy booger flicking goodness , you all should be proud of yourselves.
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Isn't it all KYB? Great starting point...
Your contribution is two lies and one obfuscation. Awesome.
The Stark Varge is KYB. The Surron Storm Bee has some weird Chinese suspension on it. I think the new Surron would be a good contender if it had real suspension on it. But as I said, it just came out and there are hardly any reviews and basically no moto guys on it.
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