Know your history kids! 🙄

philG
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4/11/2023 3:14am

Daughter took this picture an hour ago in the Red Bull shop in Salzburg in Austria. 

life goals 0

 

12
motomike137
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4/11/2023 3:24am

Who was it that won a 250 SX as a 16 year old again?

 

“If I could buy [Ronnie’s] talent for $1 million, I’d buy it because I could make $3 million with it,” Bob Hannah said on SPEED’s “The Motocross Files” in 2009.

 

Great Races: Ron Lechien and the 1983 Citrus Bowl Supercross - Racer X (racerxonline.com)

 

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1
JustMX
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4/11/2023 3:42am

Well, since we are talking history and all.

I would submit a 16 year old kid who won a professional ama supercross in his first season as a pro.

Not impressed?

How about if it was before there was a 125/250f/lites class?

How about if it was against the likes of Bailey, Johnson, Hannah, ward, glover, barnett, bell, and omara? Riders that would accumulate 12 sx titles.

Ladies and gentlemen, I submit for consideration, a 16 year old that won a 20 lap premier class sx in his rookie season, Ron lechien. (Edit, captain.olives mentioned already)

A 16 year old winning the premier supercross class?

Hold on, what is that from the back of the room?

Another 16 year old rider had done that already?

Marty tries did it in 1973 at the LA sx (but not sure the riders he beat had the resume of lechien's competition in 1983)

Now, then. Reed was in his third year as a pro when he came to America to race the entry level sx series. Is that really a rookie?

So much hype with Deegan as opposed to someone like Dungey, who came into his rookie season just about an unknown and started putting in impressive results.

 

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4/11/2023 4:16am Edited Date/Time 4/11/2023 4:18am

Easily the best rookie season belongs to Trey, he straight up beat RV for the title in a last race 1v1 matchup. 
 

I’m going to have to agree with this.  I was fortunate enough to be sitting with Trey’s family that night at the Georgia Dome when he won the very first Supercross he ever competed in.  That same season he held off one of the greatest riders in the history of the sport to claim the Eastern Region championship.  Deegan is doing great, but his rookie results aren’t even close.

11

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philG
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4/11/2023 5:22am

And of course , we have the whole ' its only half a class thing'. 

Great rider, deffo, but not even close to Lechien and Bradshaw. 

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Bultaco
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4/11/2023 5:33am

Deegan can recycle the worn out “Believe the Hype” t-shirt.  In 10-15 years we will know if he has any “Best ever” in him.  Till then it is all marketing.

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4/11/2023 6:35am
decano51 wrote:

Reeds rookie year in sx??

Reed literally had the BEST Rookie SX season in the 125 class out of this group. Won 6 races in a row and lost 1 to Jesseman @ Pontiac. Then finished 2nd at the East/West Shootout to Stewart.

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3
4/11/2023 6:59am
AC was having a good run until his shoulder came out. Would have been interesting to see what he would have done if he had stayed...

AC was having a good run until his shoulder came out. Would have been interesting to see what he would have done if he had stayed healthy.

I give AC a lot of crap on here. But maybe this is why it started. I'd say in more recent rookie history, yes AC was probably the most impressive rookie. Was undefeated and then separated shoulder I believe and then never really got healthy again.

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4/11/2023 7:16am

Ron Lechein has to be in this conversation, three 125/250f outdoor wins against Ward, Barnett, and O’mara. Two 250/450f supercross wins against all the heavy hitters of the 80, at 16 y are old. 

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mx317
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4/11/2023 7:49am

Many great rookies like Bradshaw, Lechien, Tripes, etc. 

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TeamGreen
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4/11/2023 8:20am

As others have said…James railed on a 125 against alllll those factory/factory backed 250 four-strokes. That’s something you can’t over-stated. 

Go take a look at how the few other 125s did that year. 

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kxking
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4/11/2023 8:28am

Didn't he ride the 250F on his last MX race and win by like a min+ ?

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TeamGreen
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4/11/2023 8:34am
kxking wrote:

Didn't he ride the 250F on his last MX race and win by like a min+ ?

Glen Helen on the KX250SR…

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Shawn142
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4/11/2023 9:37am

Easily the best rookie season belongs to Trey, he straight up beat RV for the title in a last race 1v1 matchup. 
 

Straight up beat?  Don't forget (know your history) this is the year RV DNF'd a round thanks to Josh Grant and he STILL nearly won the title.  RV was obviously the fastest guy, but this "straight up" race moment happened to decide the title.  Keep in mind this wasn't the last lap or even close to it, the race wasn't even half over.

Seq. 1

 Seq. 2

 

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motomike137
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4/11/2023 9:57am
UpTiTe wrote:
Ron Lechein has to be in this conversation, three 125/250f outdoor wins against Ward, Barnett, and O’mara. Two 250/450f supercross wins against all the heavy hitters...

Ron Lechein has to be in this conversation, three 125/250f outdoor wins against Ward, Barnett, and O’mara. Two 250/450f supercross wins against all the heavy hitters of the 80, at 16 y are old. 

Marty Tripes as well Wink

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kxking
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4/11/2023 10:03am

Easily the best rookie season belongs to Trey, he straight up beat RV for the title in a last race 1v1 matchup. 
 

Shawn142 wrote:
Straight up beat?  Don't forget (know your history) this is the year RV DNF'd a round thanks to Josh Grant and he STILL nearly won the...

Straight up beat?  Don't forget (know your history) this is the year RV DNF'd a round thanks to Josh Grant and he STILL nearly won the title.  RV was obviously the fastest guy, but this "straight up" race moment happened to decide the title.  Keep in mind this wasn't the last lap or even close to it, the race wasn't even half over.

Seq. 1

 Seq. 2

 

Hey, is that the MasterCraft that RC ran into ?  Grinning

1
4/11/2023 12:47pm

Easily the best rookie season belongs to Trey, he straight up beat RV for the title in a last race 1v1 matchup. 
 

Shawn142 wrote:
Straight up beat?  Don't forget (know your history) this is the year RV DNF'd a round thanks to Josh Grant and he STILL nearly won the...

Straight up beat?  Don't forget (know your history) this is the year RV DNF'd a round thanks to Josh Grant and he STILL nearly won the title.  RV was obviously the fastest guy, but this "straight up" race moment happened to decide the title.  Keep in mind this wasn't the last lap or even close to it, the race wasn't even half over.

Seq. 1

 Seq. 2

 

To this day, I still hate Canard for this. He was slower than Villopoto and knew it. So he did a Hail Mary in a place he had no business trying to make it work. Amateur move. RV shouldn't have been in this position points wise either. But still.

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16
4/11/2023 12:58pm

2003 Matt Walker slightly bumps into Travis Preston and he hits the tower. Taking him out of the title shot.TP-MW-FINISH 0

 

 2008 Same 2 teams involved. Canard takes revenge on Villopoto.

RV-TC-FINISH 0

 

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FIREfish148
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4/11/2023 1:02pm

I would say Stewart without looking at the numbers. Then Pastrana then RC. Followed by Villa and Bradshaw 

zookrider62!
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4/11/2023 1:04pm

Easily the best rookie season belongs to Trey, he straight up beat RV for the title in a last race 1v1 matchup. 
 

Shawn142 wrote:
Straight up beat?  Don't forget (know your history) this is the year RV DNF'd a round thanks to Josh Grant and he STILL nearly won the...

Straight up beat?  Don't forget (know your history) this is the year RV DNF'd a round thanks to Josh Grant and he STILL nearly won the title.  RV was obviously the fastest guy, but this "straight up" race moment happened to decide the title.  Keep in mind this wasn't the last lap or even close to it, the race wasn't even half over.

Seq. 1

 Seq. 2

 

Rosso391 wrote:
To this day, I still hate Canard for this. He was slower than Villopoto and knew it. So he did a Hail Mary in a place...

To this day, I still hate Canard for this. He was slower than Villopoto and knew it. So he did a Hail Mary in a place he had no business trying to make it work. Amateur move. RV shouldn't have been in this position points wise either. But still.

Id do an amateur move if it made me the champion lol

3
Pop Shmoke
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4/11/2023 1:12pm Edited Date/Time 4/11/2023 1:19pm
AC was having a good run until his shoulder came out. Would have been interesting to see what he would have done if he had stayed...

AC was having a good run until his shoulder came out. Would have been interesting to see what he would have done if he had stayed healthy.

Ive always said that AC turned pro too soon for his body size. He had all the talent in the world but his growth spurt was just a few years behind the other guys. Everybody grows at different rates and thats fine, its out of ur control. Ppl forget but ac looked like this his rookie year

3B141C65-68A1-437E-B5C7-4DE418035FFC

 Compare that to what he looked like 3 yrs later.

A6533B7A-A301-4784-8AD5-A21A986C86AF.jpeg?VersionId=7PHLXDaMu6PNRc

Of course a kid with the body of a 10 yr old kid is going to get injured when they crash a pro circuit 250f on a pro supercross track. Its imposssible for that not to be the outcome. What was kawi thinking? His career trajectory was derailed because his growth spurt hit a couple years after he turned pro. They should have waited until he was 18-19 when he was over 6 feet vs when he was 16 and was tiny. Hes actually one of the bigger guys out there now! 

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philG
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4/11/2023 1:54pm
AC was having a good run until his shoulder came out. Would have been interesting to see what he would have done if he had stayed...

AC was having a good run until his shoulder came out. Would have been interesting to see what he would have done if he had stayed healthy.

Pop Shmoke wrote:
Ive always said that AC turned pro too soon for his body size. He had all the talent in the world but his growth spurt was...

Ive always said that AC turned pro too soon for his body size. He had all the talent in the world but his growth spurt was just a few years behind the other guys. Everybody grows at different rates and thats fine, its out of ur control. Ppl forget but ac looked like this his rookie year

3B141C65-68A1-437E-B5C7-4DE418035FFC

 Compare that to what he looked like 3 yrs later.

A6533B7A-A301-4784-8AD5-A21A986C86AF.jpeg?VersionId=7PHLXDaMu6PNRc

Of course a kid with the body of a 10 yr old kid is going to get injured when they crash a pro circuit 250f on a pro supercross track. Its imposssible for that not to be the outcome. What was kawi thinking? His career trajectory was derailed because his growth spurt hit a couple years after he turned pro. They should have waited until he was 18-19 when he was over 6 feet vs when he was 16 and was tiny. Hes actually one of the bigger guys out there now! 

When AC spannered himself in a Euro SX, you knew things were bad. 

He spent so long on the couch , when he came back , he was almost too big for a 250F and he crashed as much for that as being too small. 

Writing this makes me think they are holding Ryder D back so they dont make the same mistake again. 

Want to see AC win a main, the guy needs a win so bad and he deserves one, and i dont think anyone would be unhappy if he did, 

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1
4/11/2023 2:14pm

I don't know about the specific order, but all of these riders had better rookie showings than HD so far:

- RC (Won 3rd SX race, MX title in first yr)

- Stewart (Won 4 SX races, MX title in first yr)

- Reed (Won 6 of 8 SX races rookie yr, 2nd in the other 2)

- Fonseca (Won 6 of 8 SX races rookie yr)

- Pastrana (Won 3 SX races, MX title in first yr)

- Canard (SX champ 1st yr beating RV)

- RV (MX title in first yr)

- Blake Bagget (1 win in first SX yr)

- J Barcia (5 podiums, 2 wins in first sx yr)

- D Bradshaw (5 wins rookie SX yr, and raced premier class SX that same yr)

 

The list goes on. This doesn't include guys who were racing the men's class their rookie yrs. 

3
DerickYZ
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4/11/2023 3:14pm

Deegan isn't one of the greatest rookies of all time. Above average? I'd say so. Not the greatest though. 

MXMattii
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4/11/2023 3:28pm

Christophe Pourcel, getting back from being paralyzed and winning the championship for Pro Circuit doesn't seem to bad as Rookie Season. I didn't want to put his name in here first because he was already world champ. But Chad Reed had won all Aussie titles you can think off, became second in the world championship and he gets named too.

1
Johnny Ringo
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4/11/2023 3:31pm
TeamGreen wrote:
As others have said…James railed on a 125 against alllll those factory/factory backed 250 four-strokes. That’s something you can’t over-stated.  Go take a look at how...

As others have said…James railed on a 125 against alllll those factory/factory backed 250 four-strokes. That’s something you can’t over-stated. 

Go take a look at how the few other 125s did that year. 

Are you talking about his rookie year? Most the guys were on 125s. Jesseman was 2nd OA. Only Yamaha had a 250F in 02

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Tarz483
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4/11/2023 3:55pm

Honorable mention Kevin Windham he was Very Dominant in the 125 class Even beating RC in the east west shoot out. And I believe us the only one to win in the big boy class on the opposite coast while still racing full time in the lites class.171142 kevin windham 1996 kuhn-20.jpg?VersionId=J5EQrwPw19jiXJmkA0u1D5bSQ2

 

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Pop Shmoke
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4/11/2023 4:03pm
TriRacer27 wrote:
I don't know about the specific order, but all of these riders had better rookie showings than HD so far: - RC (Won 3rd SX race...

I don't know about the specific order, but all of these riders had better rookie showings than HD so far:

- RC (Won 3rd SX race, MX title in first yr)

- Stewart (Won 4 SX races, MX title in first yr)

- Reed (Won 6 of 8 SX races rookie yr, 2nd in the other 2)

- Fonseca (Won 6 of 8 SX races rookie yr)

- Pastrana (Won 3 SX races, MX title in first yr)

- Canard (SX champ 1st yr beating RV)

- RV (MX title in first yr)

- Blake Bagget (1 win in first SX yr)

- J Barcia (5 podiums, 2 wins in first sx yr)

- D Bradshaw (5 wins rookie SX yr, and raced premier class SX that same yr)

 

The list goes on. This doesn't include guys who were racing the men's class their rookie yrs. 

Thats a lot of guys who won a championship their first year. Deegans definitely looking real solid but hes probably not even going to win an sx race his first year let alone championship. In outdoors its going to be even worse vs BOTH jett and hunter at the same time. YIKES, talk about tough timing going up against both of those guys.

1
1
4/11/2023 4:18pm
AC was having a good run until his shoulder came out. Would have been interesting to see what he would have done if he had stayed...

AC was having a good run until his shoulder came out. Would have been interesting to see what he would have done if he had stayed healthy.

Pop Shmoke wrote:
Ive always said that AC turned pro too soon for his body size. He had all the talent in the world but his growth spurt was...

Ive always said that AC turned pro too soon for his body size. He had all the talent in the world but his growth spurt was just a few years behind the other guys. Everybody grows at different rates and thats fine, its out of ur control. Ppl forget but ac looked like this his rookie year

3B141C65-68A1-437E-B5C7-4DE418035FFC

 Compare that to what he looked like 3 yrs later.

A6533B7A-A301-4784-8AD5-A21A986C86AF.jpeg?VersionId=7PHLXDaMu6PNRc

Of course a kid with the body of a 10 yr old kid is going to get injured when they crash a pro circuit 250f on a pro supercross track. Its imposssible for that not to be the outcome. What was kawi thinking? His career trajectory was derailed because his growth spurt hit a couple years after he turned pro. They should have waited until he was 18-19 when he was over 6 feet vs when he was 16 and was tiny. Hes actually one of the bigger guys out there now! 

philG wrote:
When AC spannered himself in a Euro SX, you knew things were bad.  He spent so long on the couch , when he came back...

When AC spannered himself in a Euro SX, you knew things were bad. 

He spent so long on the couch , when he came back , he was almost too big for a 250F and he crashed as much for that as being too small. 

Writing this makes me think they are holding Ryder D back so they dont make the same mistake again. 

Want to see AC win a main, the guy needs a win so bad and he deserves one, and i dont think anyone would be unhappy if he did, 

We can all "Monday Morning Quarterback" Cianciarulos career so far. Hes a class act. The guy has won a 250 National Championship for goodness' sake. Coming back from some tough injuries and he's finishing in the top 10 in the stacked 450 class!! I'd take his career so far in a heartbeat.

 

As far as the best rookie performance, nothing tops Lechien. Not with that field. Yes Ronnie is one of the most talented the sport has ever seen. But he was 16 years old on a garbage stock bike!!! 

decano51
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4/11/2023 4:20pm

is the question best rookie or best 16 year old to race? im confused

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