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At there best it’s Stew, For a title it’s RV, Dungey on the newer framed KTM would finish runner up and Tomac would win more races then Dungey but would also get finishes outside the top 5 which is a nail in the coffin when racing RV and RD.
Villopoto won 4 straight titles, that's a pretty big edge over Tomac.
The better rider/racer is two different things. I’d say Stewart was the most dominant in any one race however by far was the worst “racer.” He threw away so many championships throughout his career.
Dungey was the complete opposite of Stewart. Not always the fastest (but sometimes was) but phenomenal race craft and extremely consistent.
RV2 was typically the fastest on the track. He almost always had Dungey covered speed wise but missed out on a few championships due to injuries. He made a lot more mistakes than Dungey. Dungey vs Villopoto were some awesome years of racing. If one didn’t exist the other would have soooo many more race wins and championships.
Tomac was always either on or off. It was always so weird to watch him dominate everyone one week then settle for 7th the next week. His career has been so weird compared to the other guys in their championship form. For example, if Dungey didn’t win then he was typically 2nd or 3rd. That was a bad race for him. Villopoto either won, was second to Dungey or was injured. Stewart either won or crashed. Tomac is none of those things- he could win or cruise around in 7th. He’s definitely gotten much better since joining Yamaha though. His weird “float around” races have been happening much less. With that being said, he’s still not on Dungey/Villopoto level. He’s won like 5 more races than Webb this season (I think?) and he’s only a few points ahead- that’s pretty telling.
Dungey always gets the shaft in these polls. Raw speed and spectacular rides are what stick out to people. He was the guy who you’d dominate two races in a row, winning by 10-30 seconds (depending on SX or MX), but only gain 6 total points (12 in MX obviously). Then you have 2 sub par races and he gains 20 on you by going 1-1 (or 1-1-1-1 in MX). Now all the sudden you’re down in points and gaining back those points you lost is gonna take another few perfect weekends, because you’re only gaining 3 each time. I truly believe he’d be looked at differently if his chain didn’t come off and he didn’t run out of fuel in 2011. 20-25 points there each time through no fault of his own. That’s the races Dungey doesn’t give away, but his machine did.
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Hard to not pick Tomac out of that bunch...and I was (still am) a huge JS7 & Dungey fan for completely different reasons. Tomac has been called a "mental" rider...but everyone is to an extent. He's doing what he's doing now at 30...which is pretty amazing. The only guy that has almost come up to that level is RD coming back last year, basically from off the couch, and doing better than most would have thought.
Please refer to 2003 last 6 rounds of 250SX, '04 Season, '05 Orlando, Pontiac, Vegas, '06 Points were tied heading into the last round in Vegas, '09 SX Season battles, '09 Outdoor title, '11 Reed consistency, '12 Reed speed, '14 Anaheim 2, '15 Atlanta...
I was a huge Reed fan, but you are pointing out the fact that he had like 3 good races in 2005? That's not really the best evidence for why Reed should be in this discussion. BTW, he won Daytona that year.
1 Race, I think Reed finished outside the top 3 of these guys, might finish last of the 5 of them. If they are racing a whole series Idk, hard to tell, but I don't think he would win the title. I think RD would have just as good of a chance with his consistency.
They all had their moments when they were best. Stewart was probably 07 and 08. Dungey was probably best after RV retired, though he was greatly underappreciated early on a 450 on his Suzuki (2010 and 2011). Villo was best probably 2013, I remember thinking man he is spanking Dungey outdoors. Tomac's best is probably the last 2 years, just seems to be different but still has some lackluster races. Reeds peak was probably 2004, though 2011 and 2012 were pretty cool to see, aside from the Chadapult.
I think if we take these guys at their prime indoors or out I say this:
1 race
7
2
3
22
5
Series
2
5
22
3
7
They all good. I thought the rv2/ rd5 rivalry was epic. I chose rv2 , I think he had much more in the tank when he retired.
Honestly, anyone that doesn't pick Stewart is lying to themselves. It is really, really clear after all these years that JS7 was most likely going to challenge MC's 72 wins but then Yamaha made that turd. Multiple former teammates of Stew's have talked about how god awful that bike was.
Yamaha for sure robbed some remaining prime years that would easily have 2-3 years of 6-8 wins per year. And then Villo/Dunge wouldn't look as prolific. I know it is the what if game, but you're lying to yourself if you can't see it.
I'd rank them like this:
Stewart
Villopoto
Tomac
Dungey
It took Tomac 50 more starts to get those wins.
There are so many criteria to go by. The racer with the most impressive, blazing speed. The racer with the highest win percentage. The racer with the most wins. The racer with the most preservation and longevity. RV had a great win percentage, but he was roasted by the time he quit at whatever age he was. ET took some time to come into his own so-to-speak but now it looks like he could go for another five years…. and then you have the fan favorite. What criteria do you use to consider someone “better”?
Stew
Eli
RV
RD
all badasses!!!
Consistency?
The first 8 years of all these guys pro career, none of them are touching JS7 numbers of dominance! 2002 thru 2009
98 wins, 23/24 125 MX season(2004), 14/14 125 MX season(2003), 24/24 perfect MX season(2008), 13 & 11 win seasons(2007 & 2009) 7 total championships, 2 MXON championships.
Now after 2009, his career kinda went to shit for the standards he had set, whether it be injuries, decision making, choice in bikes, suspension etc…..
I did think he would turn it around in 2013, but he tore his acl in practice at A1, then in 2014 he was starting to look like the Stewart of old again indoors and outdoors. I was sure 2015 was going to be the year for James again, but we all know what happened, whatever your opinion on the suspension/adderall is, we were all robbed of seeing one of the greats end his career on a good note!
I also think James had the more difficult career as well. 1. Had to race the GOAT for 3 seasons indoor s and outdoors, and one of the seasons(2005) 250 vs 450. 2. Had to transition from 2 stroke to 4 stroke, basically went from racing a 125 2stroke to a 450 4stroke(that’s crazy). 3. Took 3 years off MX in his prime right after a perfect season(bad decision imo) 4. No fuel injection in 2009. 5. That damn backwards engine POS Yamaha from 2010-2012 😂!
ok I know that was a lot, but that’s give alittle context to James career, and that’s my argument why I put James 1st.
So, all the titles and race wins that exceed Stew's are irrelevant? 100% biased BS!
I'll take longevity anyday, over a short lived, illustrious career, riddled with bad choices and injuries from riding over his head.
I was pointing out Reed's most deserving wins of '05 with all the Legends in attendance. I'd say his best race was Anaheim 3 after his first turn tip over. He rode so fast after that.
Pit Row
Some of the younger people might not remember how much Stew dominated when he was in the championship hunt. Changed the way we ride.
Stew
RV2
Tomac
RD5
No one ever had the raw speed of Stew!
Stats don`t lie, regardless of how big of a fan you are.
tomac lasted 50 more starts, that in itself is crazy impressive in this sport. That should not be dismissed.
"The better rider/racer is two different things. I’d say Stewart was the most dominant in any one race however by far was the worst “racer.” He threw away so many championships throughout his career. "
Truest statement so far! If Stew would have backed it off just a little, he would have eclipsed every stat out there, but he couldn't....and didn't! You gotta race to win, and the people saying he did it in a shorter amount of time then the guy out there beating Stew`s records, voids his legitimacy is delusional. If you think Stew didn't want to stay out there much longer racing, you are fooling yourself. Between concussions, and bad choices, he had to bow out.
Agreed too hard to tell over that long a period. Only thing I can say is RV had RD covered
RV2..
I grew up in the stew era and he was amazing.. But RV2 was like a second coming of RC4. but just burnt out too quick
I think Tomac's reputation would be quite different if his career played out in reverse (especially if he holds on for the championship this year).
That means he would start his career with 3 SX championships and 2 MX championships in his first 5 seasons. Then he would go on to win 2 more MX championships, 20+ more SX races and then win his final SX race to end his career. (And that last part is still in play anyway.)
In a watered down lites class.....
Stats don`t lie. MC changed the game!
I would take Stew if it’s a lap not a race. After that I’d take RV. Tomac was too up and down his whole career but clearly now he’s on it. Eli today would be tough to choose against. Dungey was just too Mr. Consistent and most of the time benefited from other’s injuries. That’s part of the game too though.
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