Stark Varg Reviews

number six
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385
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efnli77643qrv, FM, USA
4/1/2023 6:30pm
Stark made another quick edit for me to share. Im still on vacay in Rome and will be posting my full review next week after we...

Stark made another quick edit for me to share. Im still on vacay in Rome and will be posting my full review next week after we return home.

 

 

Goldmember wrote:
You are posting this Stark propaganda so why don't you answer the obvious questions being asked by people with skin in? I can sense people are...

You are posting this Stark propaganda so why don't you answer the obvious questions being asked by people with skin in?

I can sense people are unhappy after all your big noting and bragging and now how you shut them down while 'on vacay'.

brocster wrote:
Not people, just dipshits like you.  He, pre and post ride, told you he would give updates when he is done with his vacay with his...

Not people, just dipshits like you. 
He, pre and post ride, told you he would give updates when he is done with his vacay with his wife. The dude owes you nothing. Why the fuck are you here, all day every day, if you hate them so much and wish for them to fail? What is your fucking purpose? Are you that miserable? Go do something!  

 

Please don't be too judgmental or harsh on he / his / her / her's / it's delicate sensibilities as it's obvious there's a colossal emotional struggle going on that's manifesting itself as a desperate desire for attention, the 'why' of it is best left to the professionals with experience in such disorders. 

Eventually, & with the proper treatment, there will be a positive outcome .. I can sense it.  Wink

We're with you GoldPecker, really, we are, no one wants to see another suffer so profoundly & publicly.

.  

8
soggy
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8849
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USA
4/1/2023 7:31pm

I want these guys to succeed but bringing over a customer who is putting out this type of content without announcement of bikes being delivered isn’t the smartest move. Definitely has a propaganda feel to it. 

9
1
4/1/2023 8:36pm Edited Date/Time 4/1/2023 8:37pm

EA6E4B12-2587-4947-AE36-F5339868CAA2The marketing for the Varg has been “different” for lack of a better word and while I am excited to start seeing them appear here in the states, Surron has quietly released the Ultra bee. Just got one a couple weeks ago and it’s an absolute blast. Roughly the same power as a 125/250f, 45-50 mile range (at least from my initial tests), can be plated so you can ride on public roads to get to the trail/track and at $6500, it’s a bargain compared to the Varg. 
 


 

 

21
APLMAN99
Posts
12724
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Tualatin, OR, USA
Fantasy
4/1/2023 8:39pm
The marketing for the Varg has been “different” for lack of a better word and while I am excited to start seeing them appear here in...

EA6E4B12-2587-4947-AE36-F5339868CAA2The marketing for the Varg has been “different” for lack of a better word and while I am excited to start seeing them appear here in the states, Surron has quietly released the Ultra bee. Just got one a couple weeks ago and it’s an absolute blast. Roughly the same power as a 125/250f, 45-50 mile range (at least from my initial tests), can be plated so you can ride on public roads to get to the trail/track and at $6500, it’s a bargain compared to the Varg. 
 


 

 

I’d likely kill for a $3-4K version of that street legal. It’d be great for around town and would cut my miles on my car by nearly half. 
 

 

2

The Shop

Muzzle
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Vernal, UT, USA
Fantasy
4/1/2023 8:51pm
#434 wrote:
No, I didn’t compare Stark to Tesla. I used Tesla as sn example, that potentially disruptive technology does, in most cases, not come from established manufacturers. ...

No, I didn’t compare Stark to Tesla. I used Tesla as sn example, that potentially disruptive technology does, in most cases, not come from established manufacturers. 

The Mugen bike btw couldn’t compete with the Stark. It’s battery is smaller and I heard the power is around 25-30 HP (I can‘t remember which Podcast I heard that number). But the biggest problem, which also plagues a lot of car manufacturers, is that they use an ICE platform and shoehorn an electric drivetrain into it. That‘s a rolling compromise from the get-go. Look at the s..t BMW is producing for example… embarrassing!

So starting with a fresh approach, a blank sheet of paper and an open mind needs commitment and courage. Something board members of big cooperations lack. All they want is good numbers, so they sell what sells good st the moment and want to cut R&D costs. Or why do you think Mugen and not HRC did this project?

Muzzle wrote:

What crap from BMW are you referring to?  I'm curious.

#434 wrote:
  Here you go! I highly recommended this YouTube channel if you’re interested in cars and aerodynamics. It got some great historical videos on technical topics...
 

Here you go! I highly recommended this YouTube channel if you’re interested in cars and aerodynamics. It got some great historical videos on technical topics too. 

That guy, unfortunately doesn't have much information and left a lot to speculation and his opinion. Not to derail this thread too much but you ought to look at some real life reviews for the i4 (or iX for that matter), you may find that his lost in the specs critique didn't play out in the real world.  Additionally, the CLAR platform will give way to the Neue Klasse dedicated EV platform in 2025, which will bring a new battery design that should increase range, charging speed, and reduce weight.

I will also fully admit that I am biased as a BMW employee :-)

3
#434
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4/1/2023 10:58pm
Muzzle wrote:

What crap from BMW are you referring to?  I'm curious.

#434 wrote:
  Here you go! I highly recommended this YouTube channel if you’re interested in cars and aerodynamics. It got some great historical videos on technical topics...
 

Here you go! I highly recommended this YouTube channel if you’re interested in cars and aerodynamics. It got some great historical videos on technical topics too. 

Muzzle wrote:
That guy, unfortunately doesn't have much information and left a lot to speculation and his opinion. Not to derail this thread too much but you ought...

That guy, unfortunately doesn't have much information and left a lot to speculation and his opinion. Not to derail this thread too much but you ought to look at some real life reviews for the i4 (or iX for that matter), you may find that his lost in the specs critique didn't play out in the real world.  Additionally, the CLAR platform will give way to the Neue Klasse dedicated EV platform in 2025, which will bring a new battery design that should increase range, charging speed, and reduce weight.

I will also fully admit that I am biased as a BMW employee :-)

So what did he get wrong in the video? Just the fact they lifted up the car, glued a battery underneath and didn’t even rearrange the wheel archers is an embarrassment for a company like BMW. A mix platform is also too expensive to produce because you have a lot of stuff on the car you’re not using. BMWs management has struggled ever since the i3 and i8 didn’t have the impact they wanted. Being a pioneer in the field, with a bold design (carbon chassis), to a dual strategy to 2030, to now realizing that that won’t work, overthrowing their whole strategy again and bringing the Neue Klasse doesn‘t look great.

My family has been driving BMWs for 40 years, I worked on a turbocharger project together with BMW (great guys!) and was always a fan. So what they’ve been doing the last 15 years hurts. Kicking their sporty image down the gutter with s..t like the Active Sports Tourer.

To get back to topic: Overall, it’s a great example that shoehorning an electric drive train in a ICE chassis is too big of a compromise, especially for a dirt bike, where packaging is everything. Taking a normal dirt bike and putting in a battery and motor will not be able to compete with a bike like the Stark. The big five will have to built new chassis if they want to have a competitive eMX. 

1
9
tek14
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Location
Vantaa, FI
4/2/2023 12:14am
#434 wrote:
  Here you go! I highly recommended this YouTube channel if you’re interested in cars and aerodynamics. It got some great historical videos on technical topics...
 

Here you go! I highly recommended this YouTube channel if you’re interested in cars and aerodynamics. It got some great historical videos on technical topics too. 

Muzzle wrote:
That guy, unfortunately doesn't have much information and left a lot to speculation and his opinion. Not to derail this thread too much but you ought...

That guy, unfortunately doesn't have much information and left a lot to speculation and his opinion. Not to derail this thread too much but you ought to look at some real life reviews for the i4 (or iX for that matter), you may find that his lost in the specs critique didn't play out in the real world.  Additionally, the CLAR platform will give way to the Neue Klasse dedicated EV platform in 2025, which will bring a new battery design that should increase range, charging speed, and reduce weight.

I will also fully admit that I am biased as a BMW employee :-)

#434 wrote:
So what did he get wrong in the video? Just the fact they lifted up the car, glued a battery underneath and didn’t even rearrange the...

So what did he get wrong in the video? Just the fact they lifted up the car, glued a battery underneath and didn’t even rearrange the wheel archers is an embarrassment for a company like BMW. A mix platform is also too expensive to produce because you have a lot of stuff on the car you’re not using. BMWs management has struggled ever since the i3 and i8 didn’t have the impact they wanted. Being a pioneer in the field, with a bold design (carbon chassis), to a dual strategy to 2030, to now realizing that that won’t work, overthrowing their whole strategy again and bringing the Neue Klasse doesn‘t look great.

My family has been driving BMWs for 40 years, I worked on a turbocharger project together with BMW (great guys!) and was always a fan. So what they’ve been doing the last 15 years hurts. Kicking their sporty image down the gutter with s..t like the Active Sports Tourer.

To get back to topic: Overall, it’s a great example that shoehorning an electric drive train in a ICE chassis is too big of a compromise, especially for a dirt bike, where packaging is everything. Taking a normal dirt bike and putting in a battery and motor will not be able to compete with a bike like the Stark. The big five will have to built new chassis if they want to have a competitive eMX. 

He didnt get any facts right. Yes they used ICE car body but if you watch real cars not prototypes they just didnt raise car and slam battery below car like they did prototype stage. 

1
Muzzle
Posts
189
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Location
Vernal, UT, USA
Fantasy
4/2/2023 12:52pm
#434 wrote:
  Here you go! I highly recommended this YouTube channel if you’re interested in cars and aerodynamics. It got some great historical videos on technical topics...
 

Here you go! I highly recommended this YouTube channel if you’re interested in cars and aerodynamics. It got some great historical videos on technical topics too. 

Muzzle wrote:
That guy, unfortunately doesn't have much information and left a lot to speculation and his opinion. Not to derail this thread too much but you ought...

That guy, unfortunately doesn't have much information and left a lot to speculation and his opinion. Not to derail this thread too much but you ought to look at some real life reviews for the i4 (or iX for that matter), you may find that his lost in the specs critique didn't play out in the real world.  Additionally, the CLAR platform will give way to the Neue Klasse dedicated EV platform in 2025, which will bring a new battery design that should increase range, charging speed, and reduce weight.

I will also fully admit that I am biased as a BMW employee :-)

#434 wrote:
So what did he get wrong in the video? Just the fact they lifted up the car, glued a battery underneath and didn’t even rearrange the...

So what did he get wrong in the video? Just the fact they lifted up the car, glued a battery underneath and didn’t even rearrange the wheel archers is an embarrassment for a company like BMW. A mix platform is also too expensive to produce because you have a lot of stuff on the car you’re not using. BMWs management has struggled ever since the i3 and i8 didn’t have the impact they wanted. Being a pioneer in the field, with a bold design (carbon chassis), to a dual strategy to 2030, to now realizing that that won’t work, overthrowing their whole strategy again and bringing the Neue Klasse doesn‘t look great.

My family has been driving BMWs for 40 years, I worked on a turbocharger project together with BMW (great guys!) and was always a fan. So what they’ve been doing the last 15 years hurts. Kicking their sporty image down the gutter with s..t like the Active Sports Tourer.

To get back to topic: Overall, it’s a great example that shoehorning an electric drive train in a ICE chassis is too big of a compromise, especially for a dirt bike, where packaging is everything. Taking a normal dirt bike and putting in a battery and motor will not be able to compete with a bike like the Stark. The big five will have to built new chassis if they want to have a competitive eMX. 

He got more wrong in the video than he got right. The CLAR platform involves much more than just jacking up an ICE car to "glue" a battery underneath. Don't believe everything you read or see on the internet. The CLAR platform allows for flexibility to meet market demands as EV's become more prominent (which makes it less expensive not more, due to economies of scale for certain areas of the platform).  Also, if you read the real world reviews of the car compared to a Tesla Model 3, it is very competitive and turned out to be quite the opposite of an "embarrassment" as you stated.  A dedicated architecture will come online for BEV's in 2025 as I mentioned, however, that doesn't mean they have realized the CLAR platform won't work, as the demand for ICE vehicles is certainly not going to die. I, personally, think it is a great strategy to have the means in place to meet market demand, whatever that may be, to ensure survival and profitability of the company.

The point I was trying to make is that sometimes people tend to get lost in the specs or the narrative rather than judging a product based upon it's actual performance.  This is pretty evident for a number of folks in this thread regarding the Stark.  I'll save my judgment for when we get actual real world reviews once a production model is coming off the line.

7
4/2/2023 2:56pm

Sorry guys, i cant pack a Stark Varg in cargo on my flight back to California. (/sarcasm) So yes, deliveries are delayed a little bit longer. But just a little bit. Based on everything ive learned, We're  so very close to receiving our bikes. I will explain in my review/recap video in the coming week. 

Keep in mind, im a customer just like all of you. I have 0 obligation to tell you any of this. Im just an electric dirtbike enthusiast (Alta owner for the past 5 years) who happened to click "BUY" first. We're all in this together. The info i share with you is genuine, We're all in this waiting game together and i really cant wait for the rest of you to experience this bike. lt truely is next level.

Im sitting on a bidet in Rome, Italy at the moment typing this. My ass is about to get power washed. My wife and i are flying home tomorrow and ill be getting to work straight away to put a review video together for you all to inform you of my thoughts and what i have learned. I really dont care if 5 people watch the video or 500,000. As the first customer who was invitied to Barcelona to tour the manufacturing facility and ride the bike for 2 days, i need to update all of you hungry customers. Stay tuned. Its worth the wait. I promise.

16
10
RMZ290
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8/15/2006
Location
New England, USA
4/2/2023 3:54pm
The marketing for the Varg has been “different” for lack of a better word and while I am excited to start seeing them appear here in...

EA6E4B12-2587-4947-AE36-F5339868CAA2The marketing for the Varg has been “different” for lack of a better word and while I am excited to start seeing them appear here in the states, Surron has quietly released the Ultra bee. Just got one a couple weeks ago and it’s an absolute blast. Roughly the same power as a 125/250f, 45-50 mile range (at least from my initial tests), can be plated so you can ride on public roads to get to the trail/track and at $6500, it’s a bargain compared to the Varg. 
 


 

 

How is it size wise and ergonomically? Does it feel like it would keep up with a 125/250f in the woods? Thinking about one as a single track bike but Chinese bikes scare me a bit. 

1
4/2/2023 6:24pm
The marketing for the Varg has been “different” for lack of a better word and while I am excited to start seeing them appear here in...

EA6E4B12-2587-4947-AE36-F5339868CAA2The marketing for the Varg has been “different” for lack of a better word and while I am excited to start seeing them appear here in the states, Surron has quietly released the Ultra bee. Just got one a couple weeks ago and it’s an absolute blast. Roughly the same power as a 125/250f, 45-50 mile range (at least from my initial tests), can be plated so you can ride on public roads to get to the trail/track and at $6500, it’s a bargain compared to the Varg. 
 


 

 

RMZ290 wrote:
How is it size wise and ergonomically? Does it feel like it would keep up with a 125/250f in the woods? Thinking about one as a...

How is it size wise and ergonomically? Does it feel like it would keep up with a 125/250f in the woods? Thinking about one as a single track bike but Chinese bikes scare me a bit. 

It’s a lot more comfy ergonomics wise compared to its baby brother the Light Bee. Feels/rides like a big bike. Suspension is soft but that is expected considering it is a Chinese dirtbike and nothing a spring upgrade and tune cant fix. I’ve owned its little brother for a year and it’s held up surprisingly well. Been using it mainly on single track and I keep up with my riding buddies just fine. Hoping it gets the same aftermarket interest it’s smaller sibling got. 

semifreeguy
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254
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Orlando, FL, USA
4/2/2023 6:45pm
The marketing for the Varg has been “different” for lack of a better word and while I am excited to start seeing them appear here in...

EA6E4B12-2587-4947-AE36-F5339868CAA2The marketing for the Varg has been “different” for lack of a better word and while I am excited to start seeing them appear here in the states, Surron has quietly released the Ultra bee. Just got one a couple weeks ago and it’s an absolute blast. Roughly the same power as a 125/250f, 45-50 mile range (at least from my initial tests), can be plated so you can ride on public roads to get to the trail/track and at $6500, it’s a bargain compared to the Varg. 
 


 

 

Finally, an electric bike that doesn't look like shit. That wasn't that hard, was it?

3
Goldmember
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Tel Aviv, IL
4/3/2023 4:32am

Not Stark but the Energica electric bike used in the 1 make FIM MotoE Cup that ran from 2019 to 2022.

These have a hefty 21kWh battery, are rated at approximately 145 hp with a 270 kmh top speed. They weigh just under 265 kg (600 lbs).

The battery, without inverter is 110kg.

The corresponding MotoGP bikes are 1000 cc up to 300hp and with a 21 litre tank that weighs about 22kg (50 lbs). Their weight is minimum of 157 kg (365 lbs)

The MotoE bikes usually raced a 30 km (19 mile) distance with no sight lap.

The MotoGP machines raced normally at an up to 140 km race distance.

 

1
1
#434
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DE
4/3/2023 5:15am
Muzzle wrote:
That guy, unfortunately doesn't have much information and left a lot to speculation and his opinion. Not to derail this thread too much but you ought...

That guy, unfortunately doesn't have much information and left a lot to speculation and his opinion. Not to derail this thread too much but you ought to look at some real life reviews for the i4 (or iX for that matter), you may find that his lost in the specs critique didn't play out in the real world.  Additionally, the CLAR platform will give way to the Neue Klasse dedicated EV platform in 2025, which will bring a new battery design that should increase range, charging speed, and reduce weight.

I will also fully admit that I am biased as a BMW employee :-)

#434 wrote:
So what did he get wrong in the video? Just the fact they lifted up the car, glued a battery underneath and didn’t even rearrange the...

So what did he get wrong in the video? Just the fact they lifted up the car, glued a battery underneath and didn’t even rearrange the wheel archers is an embarrassment for a company like BMW. A mix platform is also too expensive to produce because you have a lot of stuff on the car you’re not using. BMWs management has struggled ever since the i3 and i8 didn’t have the impact they wanted. Being a pioneer in the field, with a bold design (carbon chassis), to a dual strategy to 2030, to now realizing that that won’t work, overthrowing their whole strategy again and bringing the Neue Klasse doesn‘t look great.

My family has been driving BMWs for 40 years, I worked on a turbocharger project together with BMW (great guys!) and was always a fan. So what they’ve been doing the last 15 years hurts. Kicking their sporty image down the gutter with s..t like the Active Sports Tourer.

To get back to topic: Overall, it’s a great example that shoehorning an electric drive train in a ICE chassis is too big of a compromise, especially for a dirt bike, where packaging is everything. Taking a normal dirt bike and putting in a battery and motor will not be able to compete with a bike like the Stark. The big five will have to built new chassis if they want to have a competitive eMX. 

Muzzle wrote:
He got more wrong in the video than he got right. The CLAR platform involves much more than just jacking up an ICE car to "glue"...

He got more wrong in the video than he got right. The CLAR platform involves much more than just jacking up an ICE car to "glue" a battery underneath. Don't believe everything you read or see on the internet. The CLAR platform allows for flexibility to meet market demands as EV's become more prominent (which makes it less expensive not more, due to economies of scale for certain areas of the platform).  Also, if you read the real world reviews of the car compared to a Tesla Model 3, it is very competitive and turned out to be quite the opposite of an "embarrassment" as you stated.  A dedicated architecture will come online for BEV's in 2025 as I mentioned, however, that doesn't mean they have realized the CLAR platform won't work, as the demand for ICE vehicles is certainly not going to die. I, personally, think it is a great strategy to have the means in place to meet market demand, whatever that may be, to ensure survival and profitability of the company.

The point I was trying to make is that sometimes people tend to get lost in the specs or the narrative rather than judging a product based upon it's actual performance.  This is pretty evident for a number of folks in this thread regarding the Stark.  I'll save my judgment for when we get actual real world reviews once a production model is coming off the line.

Alright, thanks for clearing this up for me. The i4 seems to work for BMW, since they’re happy with the numbers sold.

I have to take closer look at what they will do with the new platform for 2025, since it sometimes looks like the Germans are falling behind Tesla in terms of production capabilities (big cast parts and other stuff). There’s certainly stuff Tesla introduced that they are copying at the moment.

Do you think such an approach would for a dirt bike? Build a platform that works for both?
 

#434
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1913
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3/23/2017
Location
DE
4/3/2023 5:17am
Goldmember wrote:
Not Stark but the Energica electric bike used in the 1 make FIM MotoE Cup that ran from 2019 to 2022. These have a hefty 21kWh...

Not Stark but the Energica electric bike used in the 1 make FIM MotoE Cup that ran from 2019 to 2022.

These have a hefty 21kWh battery, are rated at approximately 145 hp with a 270 kmh top speed. They weigh just under 265 kg (600 lbs).

The battery, without inverter is 110kg.

The corresponding MotoGP bikes are 1000 cc up to 300hp and with a 21 litre tank that weighs about 22kg (50 lbs). Their weight is minimum of 157 kg (365 lbs)

The MotoE bikes usually raced a 30 km (19 mile) distance with no sight lap.

The MotoGP machines raced normally at an up to 140 km race distance.

 

Ok, and what do you want to tell us with this info?

1
Goldmember
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671
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Location
Tel Aviv, IL
4/3/2023 5:39am
#434 wrote:

Ok, and what do you want to tell us with this info?

Wink

1
2
early
Posts
10017
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Location
University Heights, OH, USA
4/3/2023 8:47am
The marketing for the Varg has been “different” for lack of a better word and while I am excited to start seeing them appear here in...

EA6E4B12-2587-4947-AE36-F5339868CAA2The marketing for the Varg has been “different” for lack of a better word and while I am excited to start seeing them appear here in the states, Surron has quietly released the Ultra bee. Just got one a couple weeks ago and it’s an absolute blast. Roughly the same power as a 125/250f, 45-50 mile range (at least from my initial tests), can be plated so you can ride on public roads to get to the trail/track and at $6500, it’s a bargain compared to the Varg. 
 


 

 

How did you get it plated? Do these have a VIN number?

Last Braaap
Posts
1732
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4/19/2019
Location
Somewhere over the rainbow, CZ
4/3/2023 10:01am
The marketing for the Varg has been “different” for lack of a better word and while I am excited to start seeing them appear here in...

EA6E4B12-2587-4947-AE36-F5339868CAA2The marketing for the Varg has been “different” for lack of a better word and while I am excited to start seeing them appear here in the states, Surron has quietly released the Ultra bee. Just got one a couple weeks ago and it’s an absolute blast. Roughly the same power as a 125/250f, 45-50 mile range (at least from my initial tests), can be plated so you can ride on public roads to get to the trail/track and at $6500, it’s a bargain compared to the Varg. 
 


 

 

early wrote:

How did you get it plated? Do these have a VIN number?

remote image

7
avidchimp
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7/9/2008
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EGL, MN, USA
4/3/2023 10:13am
The marketing for the Varg has been “different” for lack of a better word and while I am excited to start seeing them appear here in...

EA6E4B12-2587-4947-AE36-F5339868CAA2The marketing for the Varg has been “different” for lack of a better word and while I am excited to start seeing them appear here in the states, Surron has quietly released the Ultra bee. Just got one a couple weeks ago and it’s an absolute blast. Roughly the same power as a 125/250f, 45-50 mile range (at least from my initial tests), can be plated so you can ride on public roads to get to the trail/track and at $6500, it’s a bargain compared to the Varg. 
 


 

 

Yesterday while hiking in the Simi hills between Simi and Agoura there were 5 dudes, 3 on Sur Rons and two on KTM free rides tearing up the hills where there wasn't a trail and I lit them up for being douche bags. People riding these things on non-motorized trails are going to ruin it for all of us.

12
2
8500rpm
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574
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SE
4/3/2023 10:33am
The marketing for the Varg has been “different” for lack of a better word and while I am excited to start seeing them appear here in...

EA6E4B12-2587-4947-AE36-F5339868CAA2The marketing for the Varg has been “different” for lack of a better word and while I am excited to start seeing them appear here in the states, Surron has quietly released the Ultra bee. Just got one a couple weeks ago and it’s an absolute blast. Roughly the same power as a 125/250f, 45-50 mile range (at least from my initial tests), can be plated so you can ride on public roads to get to the trail/track and at $6500, it’s a bargain compared to the Varg. 
 


 

 

avidchimp wrote:
Yesterday while hiking in the Simi hills between Simi and Agoura there were 5 dudes, 3 on Sur Rons and two on KTM free rides tearing...

Yesterday while hiking in the Simi hills between Simi and Agoura there were 5 dudes, 3 on Sur Rons and two on KTM free rides tearing up the hills where there wasn't a trail and I lit them up for being douche bags. People riding these things on non-motorized trails are going to ruin it for all of us.

Just curious, would you be allowed to ride a e-mtb? ...and if yes, when does the e-mtbs engine become to strong so it's motorized or is it a question of the pedals? KTM Freeride is heavy and have 18inch full size tires, but the Sur Ron, does it really make any damage? 

Also curious about Agoura/Simi, not knowing Simi Hills but I stayed a few nights in Agoura Hills last year and wonder, is there any area close by for people living there where they could ride their Freeride or Sur Ron or is it off limits the whole area?

2
avidchimp
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EGL, MN, USA
4/3/2023 11:06am
8500rpm wrote:
Just curious, would you be allowed to ride a e-mtb? ...and if yes, when does the e-mtbs engine become to strong so it's motorized or is...

Just curious, would you be allowed to ride a e-mtb? ...and if yes, when does the e-mtbs engine become to strong so it's motorized or is it a question of the pedals? KTM Freeride is heavy and have 18inch full size tires, but the Sur Ron, does it really make any damage? 

Also curious about Agoura/Simi, not knowing Simi Hills but I stayed a few nights in Agoura Hills last year and wonder, is there any area close by for people living there where they could ride their Freeride or Sur Ron or is it off limits the whole area?

The park rangers/Sheriffs don't care about e-bikes and a ton of people ride them, but the Sur Ron's have become a problem as they have gotten really popular with the younger crowd, and yeah they do tear things up. As far as places to ride them, not really as almost all open space around here falls under the MRCA jurisdiction. This was the first time I've seen people on KTM's and they were trenching lines up a hill that was until then pristine grass with the Sur Ron's trying to follow them up the hills.

I'm sure if the kids stuck to the fire roads and weren't being destructive dicks the rangers would not really harass them, but the trails around here are full of hikers and people with dogs who hate anything motorized on the trails, so not sure how long that will last.

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Muzzle
Posts
189
Joined
6/20/2013
Location
Vernal, UT, USA
Fantasy
4/3/2023 3:55pm
#434 wrote:
So what did he get wrong in the video? Just the fact they lifted up the car, glued a battery underneath and didn’t even rearrange the...

So what did he get wrong in the video? Just the fact they lifted up the car, glued a battery underneath and didn’t even rearrange the wheel archers is an embarrassment for a company like BMW. A mix platform is also too expensive to produce because you have a lot of stuff on the car you’re not using. BMWs management has struggled ever since the i3 and i8 didn’t have the impact they wanted. Being a pioneer in the field, with a bold design (carbon chassis), to a dual strategy to 2030, to now realizing that that won’t work, overthrowing their whole strategy again and bringing the Neue Klasse doesn‘t look great.

My family has been driving BMWs for 40 years, I worked on a turbocharger project together with BMW (great guys!) and was always a fan. So what they’ve been doing the last 15 years hurts. Kicking their sporty image down the gutter with s..t like the Active Sports Tourer.

To get back to topic: Overall, it’s a great example that shoehorning an electric drive train in a ICE chassis is too big of a compromise, especially for a dirt bike, where packaging is everything. Taking a normal dirt bike and putting in a battery and motor will not be able to compete with a bike like the Stark. The big five will have to built new chassis if they want to have a competitive eMX. 

Muzzle wrote:
He got more wrong in the video than he got right. The CLAR platform involves much more than just jacking up an ICE car to "glue"...

He got more wrong in the video than he got right. The CLAR platform involves much more than just jacking up an ICE car to "glue" a battery underneath. Don't believe everything you read or see on the internet. The CLAR platform allows for flexibility to meet market demands as EV's become more prominent (which makes it less expensive not more, due to economies of scale for certain areas of the platform).  Also, if you read the real world reviews of the car compared to a Tesla Model 3, it is very competitive and turned out to be quite the opposite of an "embarrassment" as you stated.  A dedicated architecture will come online for BEV's in 2025 as I mentioned, however, that doesn't mean they have realized the CLAR platform won't work, as the demand for ICE vehicles is certainly not going to die. I, personally, think it is a great strategy to have the means in place to meet market demand, whatever that may be, to ensure survival and profitability of the company.

The point I was trying to make is that sometimes people tend to get lost in the specs or the narrative rather than judging a product based upon it's actual performance.  This is pretty evident for a number of folks in this thread regarding the Stark.  I'll save my judgment for when we get actual real world reviews once a production model is coming off the line.

#434 wrote:
Alright, thanks for clearing this up for me. The i4 seems to work for BMW, since they’re happy with the numbers sold. I have to take...

Alright, thanks for clearing this up for me. The i4 seems to work for BMW, since they’re happy with the numbers sold.

I have to take closer look at what they will do with the new platform for 2025, since it sometimes looks like the Germans are falling behind Tesla in terms of production capabilities (big cast parts and other stuff). There’s certainly stuff Tesla introduced that they are copying at the moment.

Do you think such an approach would for a dirt bike? Build a platform that works for both?
 

I don't know if that approach would work for a dirt bike as I'm not an engineer.  What I would say is I wouldn't discount it and say it's garbage before I had a chance to ride it or read real world reviews.

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Goldmember
Posts
671
Joined
12/23/2021
Location
Tel Aviv, IL
4/3/2023 7:04pm
Muzzle wrote:
I don't know if that approach would work for a dirt bike as I'm not an engineer.  What I would say is I wouldn't discount it...

I don't know if that approach would work for a dirt bike as I'm not an engineer.  What I would say is I wouldn't discount it and say it's garbage before I had a chance to ride it or read real world reviews.

One of the many reasons why there are no full sized electric MX bikes is the extreme vulnerability of the necessarily large and low battery case. One cell, slightly damaged in a case out, will short and burn it down.

 

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4/4/2023 1:23am
The marketing for the Varg has been “different” for lack of a better word and while I am excited to start seeing them appear here in...

EA6E4B12-2587-4947-AE36-F5339868CAA2The marketing for the Varg has been “different” for lack of a better word and while I am excited to start seeing them appear here in the states, Surron has quietly released the Ultra bee. Just got one a couple weeks ago and it’s an absolute blast. Roughly the same power as a 125/250f, 45-50 mile range (at least from my initial tests), can be plated so you can ride on public roads to get to the trail/track and at $6500, it’s a bargain compared to the Varg. 
 


 

 

early wrote:

How did you get it plated? Do these have a VIN number?

Mine came with a title (all in Chinese) and it does have a VIN. Currently going through this third party (link below) to register it. Costs a bit more than anticipated but they take care of everything. 
 

https://www.dirtlegal.com/motorcycle-registration-options

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8500rpm
Posts
574
Joined
12/31/2020
Location
SE
4/4/2023 1:26am
The marketing for the Varg has been “different” for lack of a better word and while I am excited to start seeing them appear here in...

EA6E4B12-2587-4947-AE36-F5339868CAA2The marketing for the Varg has been “different” for lack of a better word and while I am excited to start seeing them appear here in the states, Surron has quietly released the Ultra bee. Just got one a couple weeks ago and it’s an absolute blast. Roughly the same power as a 125/250f, 45-50 mile range (at least from my initial tests), can be plated so you can ride on public roads to get to the trail/track and at $6500, it’s a bargain compared to the Varg. 
 


 

 

avidchimp wrote:
Yesterday while hiking in the Simi hills between Simi and Agoura there were 5 dudes, 3 on Sur Rons and two on KTM free rides tearing...

Yesterday while hiking in the Simi hills between Simi and Agoura there were 5 dudes, 3 on Sur Rons and two on KTM free rides tearing up the hills where there wasn't a trail and I lit them up for being douche bags. People riding these things on non-motorized trails are going to ruin it for all of us.

8500rpm wrote:
Just curious, would you be allowed to ride a e-mtb? ...and if yes, when does the e-mtbs engine become to strong so it's motorized or is...

Just curious, would you be allowed to ride a e-mtb? ...and if yes, when does the e-mtbs engine become to strong so it's motorized or is it a question of the pedals? KTM Freeride is heavy and have 18inch full size tires, but the Sur Ron, does it really make any damage? 

Also curious about Agoura/Simi, not knowing Simi Hills but I stayed a few nights in Agoura Hills last year and wonder, is there any area close by for people living there where they could ride their Freeride or Sur Ron or is it off limits the whole area?

Just crazy... no expert in the area, but remember when driving from Agoura towards Malibu, there were few houses, far between. I  understand the noise but e-whatever... can't believe you cannot find a spot where it should be Ok to ride.

When I had my KTM Freeride (only for 6months) I used to tide around the neighbourhood woods and even horse people!!! greeted my, since my KTM was silent, it didn't scare/disturb the horses. Of course you cannot come flying like a madman but if you behave, both horses and Sur-Ron/Freerides should easily fit in the same wilderness...

 

BBA
Posts
260
Joined
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Location
somewhere, NC, USA
4/4/2023 3:05am
8500rpm wrote:
Just crazy... no expert in the area, but remember when driving from Agoura towards Malibu, there were few houses, far between. I  understand the noise but...

Just crazy... no expert in the area, but remember when driving from Agoura towards Malibu, there were few houses, far between. I  understand the noise but e-whatever... can't believe you cannot find a spot where it should be Ok to ride.

When I had my KTM Freeride (only for 6months) I used to tide around the neighbourhood woods and even horse people!!! greeted my, since my KTM was silent, it didn't scare/disturb the horses. Of course you cannot come flying like a madman but if you behave, both horses and Sur-Ron/Freerides should easily fit in the same wilderness...

 

I've never understood why it's ok for a 1500-2000lbs animal with 200lbs on its back to tear up trails but not for 240lbs motorcycle with 200lbs riding it? I can remember when I was a kid back in the late 80's/early 90's when people weren't so f'n anal about everything and you could actually ride huge amounts of public lands without anyone saying anything to you. No one had an issue about it and everyone just minded their own business. Now it seems that if you do not have something to bitch about someone will make up an issue for you. 

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1
Silas444
Posts
640
Joined
5/23/2015
Location
Mid-state, ME, USA
4/4/2023 6:08am
BBA wrote:
I've never understood why it's ok for a 1500-2000lbs animal with 200lbs on its back to tear up trails but not for 240lbs motorcycle with 200lbs...

I've never understood why it's ok for a 1500-2000lbs animal with 200lbs on its back to tear up trails but not for 240lbs motorcycle with 200lbs riding it? I can remember when I was a kid back in the late 80's/early 90's when people weren't so f'n anal about everything and you could actually ride huge amounts of public lands without anyone saying anything to you. No one had an issue about it and everyone just minded their own business. Now it seems that if you do not have something to bitch about someone will make up an issue for you. 

Up here where I live, strangely, it's just the opposite. It's quite hard to find places to ride a horse, but I could ride a dirt bike all the way to Canada from my front yard. Years ago, they pulled up a major run of train tracks and converted the run into a ATV/UTV/dirtbike/snowmobile trail that goes on for miles and miles. I'm not a "woodsy" guy, so it holds little interest for me, but I can hear riders buzzing along on it year-round. You can ride it to a lake for a campout, or to the golf course, or to restaurants, gas stations, the grocery store - you can ride all day on it, and people do - 365 days a year. Weirder yet, it's considered rude to hike or even bicycle on it, and a HORSE - no flippin' way. 

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4/4/2023 7:23am Edited Date/Time 4/4/2023 7:24am
8500rpm wrote:
Just crazy... no expert in the area, but remember when driving from Agoura towards Malibu, there were few houses, far between. I  understand the noise but...

Just crazy... no expert in the area, but remember when driving from Agoura towards Malibu, there were few houses, far between. I  understand the noise but e-whatever... can't believe you cannot find a spot where it should be Ok to ride.

When I had my KTM Freeride (only for 6months) I used to tide around the neighbourhood woods and even horse people!!! greeted my, since my KTM was silent, it didn't scare/disturb the horses. Of course you cannot come flying like a madman but if you behave, both horses and Sur-Ron/Freerides should easily fit in the same wilderness...

 

BBA wrote:
I've never understood why it's ok for a 1500-2000lbs animal with 200lbs on its back to tear up trails but not for 240lbs motorcycle with 200lbs...

I've never understood why it's ok for a 1500-2000lbs animal with 200lbs on its back to tear up trails but not for 240lbs motorcycle with 200lbs riding it? I can remember when I was a kid back in the late 80's/early 90's when people weren't so f'n anal about everything and you could actually ride huge amounts of public lands without anyone saying anything to you. No one had an issue about it and everyone just minded their own business. Now it seems that if you do not have something to bitch about someone will make up an issue for you. 

Because a majority of people like/love horses but hate bikes and say we destroy the ground we ride on. Which is interesting because 99% of horse people that I know love bikes and ride moto themselves.

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1
Cobbler
Posts
432
Joined
3/13/2023
Location
cairo, IL, USA
4/4/2023 7:40am
Sorry guys, i cant pack a Stark Varg in cargo on my flight back to California. (/sarcasm) So yes, deliveries are delayed a little bit longer...

Sorry guys, i cant pack a Stark Varg in cargo on my flight back to California. (/sarcasm) So yes, deliveries are delayed a little bit longer. But just a little bit. Based on everything ive learned, We're  so very close to receiving our bikes. I will explain in my review/recap video in the coming week. 

Keep in mind, im a customer just like all of you. I have 0 obligation to tell you any of this. Im just an electric dirtbike enthusiast (Alta owner for the past 5 years) who happened to click "BUY" first. We're all in this together. The info i share with you is genuine, We're all in this waiting game together and i really cant wait for the rest of you to experience this bike. lt truely is next level.

Im sitting on a bidet in Rome, Italy at the moment typing this. My ass is about to get power washed. My wife and i are flying home tomorrow and ill be getting to work straight away to put a review video together for you all to inform you of my thoughts and what i have learned. I really dont care if 5 people watch the video or 500,000. As the first customer who was invitied to Barcelona to tour the manufacturing facility and ride the bike for 2 days, i need to update all of you hungry customers. Stay tuned. Its worth the wait. I promise.

Last time someone said "we're all in this together" they destroyed me financially immediately afterwards lol

7
3
avidchimp
Posts
5808
Joined
7/9/2008
Location
EGL, MN, USA
4/4/2023 7:52am
8500rpm wrote:
Just crazy... no expert in the area, but remember when driving from Agoura towards Malibu, there were few houses, far between. I  understand the noise but...

Just crazy... no expert in the area, but remember when driving from Agoura towards Malibu, there were few houses, far between. I  understand the noise but e-whatever... can't believe you cannot find a spot where it should be Ok to ride.

When I had my KTM Freeride (only for 6months) I used to tide around the neighbourhood woods and even horse people!!! greeted my, since my KTM was silent, it didn't scare/disturb the horses. Of course you cannot come flying like a madman but if you behave, both horses and Sur-Ron/Freerides should easily fit in the same wilderness...

 

BBA wrote:
I've never understood why it's ok for a 1500-2000lbs animal with 200lbs on its back to tear up trails but not for 240lbs motorcycle with 200lbs...

I've never understood why it's ok for a 1500-2000lbs animal with 200lbs on its back to tear up trails but not for 240lbs motorcycle with 200lbs riding it? I can remember when I was a kid back in the late 80's/early 90's when people weren't so f'n anal about everything and you could actually ride huge amounts of public lands without anyone saying anything to you. No one had an issue about it and everyone just minded their own business. Now it seems that if you do not have something to bitch about someone will make up an issue for you. 

mattyhamz2 wrote:
Because a majority of people like/love horses but hate bikes and say we destroy the ground we ride on. Which is interesting because 99% of horse...

Because a majority of people like/love horses but hate bikes and say we destroy the ground we ride on. Which is interesting because 99% of horse people that I know love bikes and ride moto themselves.

Just to piggyback on this, this is still very much horse country, and yeah they do some damage to trails, but it's nothing like kids on actual motorcycles ripping around blind corners on marked hiking trails scaring the shit out of people and dogs, let alone carving lines in hills that were once untouched. 

As I mentioned, if they were respectful of the rules and others around them nobody would really give a shit.

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