Just curious to what brand new bike you are seeing at the track or social media etc.
I would think sales would be tied to available inventory to some extent. I kinda wanted a 2023 YZ250F but none in stock a month or two back. I liked the Honda too, found a 23 250R in stock and bought it.
If I had to guess KTM would top the charts if they are at the dealers. Talked to a guy at the track Yesterday he had a 2023 450 KTM. Another guy at the track had a new 2021 YZ450F, was a leftover he got a deal on.
Seems like on Facebook I see a lot of 2023 Honda 250R’s guys are posting pic they just brought home. May just be what shows up on my page, with Facebook ya never know.
From what I see Honda and KTM’s are selling. I bet some of you guys are better informed than I am. What are you seeing new. Thanks Billy
That's really hard to know accurately based on anecdotal evidence. I have the 2022 CRF250R, though. Will probably buy a 2024 if they do some updates.
Honda releases auto sales by model, but not motorcycle sales by model, as far as I can tell.
Been a while since I have looked at it but I believe sales numbers are reported every month in industry publications like dealer news.
In the last week I have been at 2 different dealerships and seen huge numbers of Orange, Blue, Red, other Red, Green, Yellow models. Great to see the numbers back in the dealers inventory.
I sure don’t see yellow bikes new or old. But I only go the the track during the week and it’s not real busy most of the time.
I can provide the following information.
According to industry reports, the top selling motocross bike brands for 2022 are Honda, Yamaha, and KTM. These brands have consistently performed well in the market, with their bikes featuring powerful engines, advanced suspension systems, and sleek designs.
Honda's CRF450R model has proven to be a top seller, with its redesigned frame and suspension offering improved stability and control on the track. Yamaha's YZ450F model has also been a popular choice, thanks to its compact and lightweight design that allows for quick and agile handling.
KTM has also seen success with its 450 SX-F model, which boasts a state-of-the-art engine and suspension system. The brand has also released a limited edition Factory Edition of this bike, which has proven to be a hit among motocross enthusiasts.
Overall, these three brands have dominated the market for motocross bikes in 2022, with their top-performing models consistently selling well. Their commitment to producing high-quality bikes with advanced technology has solidified their position as leaders in the industry.
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It's great to see them yes....but because nobody is buying them unfortunately with the exception of a few key models. The industry is in a major slowdown and it is going to get worse unfortunately.
Rebate time
I'm always creeping Facebook marketplace. I see a mixed bag of bikes. As far as 22 and 23 models it seems pretty even If I had to say. If anything, I see more yz250fs but that bike is also super popular up here in the Northeast.
Keep in mind if you have been doing a lot of looking at Honda stuff online it can play into what facebook shows you, even on marketplace.
Same in my area.
What the fuck is up with these bot posts lately on here? This is like the 3rd or 4th one.
I have been in the MC industry for 40 years so It is winter right before Christmas and the market typically is buyers that buy a new bike every year when they come out and Christmas presents. Set up department usually can not keep up so mechanics start uncreating and building them too.
A KTM dealer did say they can not get enough of the new 300 XC to keep up with demand.
This beats the hell out of what we have been seeing the last couple years because of Covid.
I know you have been around a bit as have I. The new TBI bikes are a different deal, but the market as a whole is tanking quickly. Yes, the inventory is much better than Covid years when everyone was throwing money for everything outdoor (UTV, moto, bicycles, cars etc). The lack of availability due to supply chain etc elevated demand because everyone wants what they cannot get. Now look at facebook marketplace, eBay, etc. and you are seeing a massive amount of basically brand new bikes, UTV's, cars, bikes etc. that were bought and hardly used. Those "customers" are now gone from the aftermarket as well. Just like the rest of our economy, 2023 is going to rough on moto and aftermarket sales.
I’d have to agree on the comment on the new Austrian 2 strokes, they are unique for lack of better description. They seem to have their own market space. Doubt many will set very long on a showroom floor in a metropolitan area. I have’t seen one at the track yet. One of the guys I spoke with at the track yesterday said earlier in the week a guy was riding a new 300 two stroke. Always interesting to see new stuff.
One would think green 450’s would be selling and may, based on the good press they get.
Crazy Covid market put a lot of scooters in garages, now many are on Facebook for more than used market will bare. In the spring I bet all the Jap companies will be rebate crazy trying to move floor plan.
I think we will see less new ktms than usual. The price will have to start affecting people imo. Maybe the USA ktms aren't gone up so high. But here it's a huge jump compared to other bikes
I primarily do 2 hr off road races these days, so I see Loads of all KTM brands, lots of Yamahas , some kawasaki. very few Hondas, zero suzuki's. More Beta's, Sherco's, etc than Honda and suzuki combined
Its crazy when you think of the number of pre sales Stark has with the VARG. 17,000 on order as of right now. The majority of those are dealer reservations world wide. The new release dates will see them start to trickle out in the middle of 2023 with a ramp up at the end of the year. Its setting up to be the largest release of a new motorcycle in history. Love it or hate it, it's definitely an interesting time as it moves into the market.
I was going to sit on the sidelines for 2023, but now that Ken has committed, so have I.
Suzuki all the way.
I predict you will see one of two things regarding the Stark and maybe both:
1. A shit ton of people will change their minds and cancel their order/forfeit their deposit ($100) due to economic concerns and delays of the bike. This could lead to them stacked up in showrooms.
2. The bike will continue to get delayed and will trickle into availability over the next several years.
It's an awesome machine (appears to be), but I think many are underestimating how big Covid was for moto and how much it will drop starting now. Combined with interest rates being incredibly high, housing market out of control, and an economic downturn the first things people change their minds on are hobbies. The # of layoffs in the outdoor industry over the last 30-60 days is mind-blowing. That should tell you exactly what's coming.
Here is what I'm seeing in my opinion; The TBI bikes KTM are making head way into the the offroad market. People that enjoy riding for Fun.. FI power... etc...
All the other MFG's - except for the KTM branded group (Husky, gasgas) - are flat ignoring the market between 250 four strokes and 450 4 strokes. Frankly, most of the folks buying these bikes don't race moto. They go riding on the weekends with their buddy’s to get some fresh air and relax. They don't need a 450. They want more then a 250. Pretty clear KTM sells more 350 4 strokes then the other models they offer. So... really? Marketing folks can't read the basic feed back and realize the biggest part of the bell curve is the 300- 350 4 stroke market? Really? How blind do you have to be? Oh... let me help with the excuses - "there is no 350 racing class"... etc. Really? Are you folks that involved in corp politics that you can't see the writing on the wall? Hun? This... at this point in time ... is just nuts!
I'm speechless at the lack of intentional fortititude to jump into this market... especially the 6 speed bigger tank market.
Really? Are the head winds that strong against common sense at these mfg.’s? Product managers are so affraid of their bosses they don’t want to bring up what is obvious in the market? Honda, Kawaski or Yamaha … just one of you needs to jump into this market with a cross county version of a 350..You will sell every on produced. It's not like the forks on the KTM group products are great...IMO they suck. Badly. Bad decision. I don't think I'm alone. The market is screaming for another mfg’er to enter this space with a well though out product. My god man... let common sense prevail! It’s just sad were this far along with no competition to the KTM 350 platform. This is a missed opportunity!
Pit Row
I heard Suzuki is announcing their all new RMZ350 next week. Kickstart only.
In all seriousness I bet it would outsell their 250 and 450’s combined.
Is there any actual data of dirtscooter sales? How many units are sold per year?
It is a good thing Triumph is entering the market, I doubt all the Japanese manufacturers will remain in dirt bikes over the next few years. One or two most assuredly will drop out, just not enough juice for the squeeze.
If the Japanese made 300 two strokes and 350 four strokes, they would outsell everything else in my area. People are literally pining for a YZ350F as far as I can tell. Nothing but crickets from Japan. KTM group deserves to own the market. They are the only manufacturer who cares to produce what people want.
As I have said before, the Japanese manufacturers seem to have this need, this burning desire to think well inside the box, and to engage in a never ending game of follow the leader with each other
I would have bought a 350 crf.
If Suzuki wanted to get back into the game in a big, big way, an RM300 and RMZ350 would increase their dirtbike sales tenfold overnight. But they don't. They wish to continue their game of follow the leader....
As much as I like E-start, I would give it up for a Japanese 350 4 stroke.
One thing about KTM. They seems to listen customers. They have hit the mark on Electric start, modern 2 strokes, 350f etc., you do that you get a following. They have a following no doubt, lot orange bikes at the track. The KTM guys I talk to don’t seem to mind the premium they pay. They feel it’s made up on the number of hours they get out of a bike.
Compared to other Motorsport hobbies, outdoor hobbies etc. Dirt bikes are affordable compared to SXS’s, boats, cars. I backed off my tournament bass fishing because of the cost of new bass boats and electronics. Modern electronics on a bass boat cost more than the new Honda in my garage. I quit racing SCCA because it cost more than I wanted to spend.
My point, dirt bikes are one of the few hobbies still somewhat affordable. I hope others besides KTM listen to the market and not cave to climate change.
I'm in a ton of shops in the midwest regularly and the Austrian brands are decimating the Japanese stuff. Things are slowing a little but no more than normal when its cold out over winter. I'm much more into the off road scene than the MX stuff but like mentioned, the other brands are totally ignoring the largest market by far. I dont' think people care all that much that its another grand or so either when they are constantly coming out with new models and have a wide variety to choose from. You don't have to buy a Yamaha and convert it to what you want, you can buy off the showroom floor exactly what you want. And by having three brands to choose from you and your buddies can all have Austrian bikes without all riding the exact same bike. Its pretty brilliant.
I just wonder how long until KTM makes a side by side...
My thoughts on KTM making a SxS. I don’t think they will go down that path. SXS’s are priced out of the reach for many already. Yeah the well paid oil patch and plant hands in Texas, Oklahoma and Louisiana will continue to buy the for hunting and mid crowd but not at the pace the past few years. Friend of mine recently bought a new dirt bike said he couldn’t afford 30k for big bucks for a new SXS and didn’t like drunk mud crowd 4 wheel guys. The Chinese are creeping up on owning ATV/UTV market in a few years.
Someone has run the numbers in Japan and they will profit less selling 350s instead of 450s. What they can’t measure well is how many people are leaving their brand to get an Austrian 350. However many it is, they clearly believe it’s not enough to sell a 350 and eat into their 450 sales. Having said that, they could probably keep the same profit margin on the 350 and people would pay for it.
After adding KTM 250 and 450 hoses I quickly learned the KTM’s #1 selling bike was the 250 2 stroke by far!
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