Could an ebike race sx if homogulated?

resetjet
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resetjet
I read the 2022 rulebook and i dont specifically see ebikes mentioned.

Can they even finish a main?

How long will it be before somebody produces these in mass. Odd that there are no specific rules in the sx rulebook. There is a specific rule in mxsports to only allow an e mini class.

I thought i remember seeing that they are banned from ama racing at this point but i didnt see it.

Before you kill me i did search.

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Brad460
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Brad460 11/20/2022 8:13am
11/20/2022 8:13am
I suspect they won’t appear in the rule book until one of the current big manufacturers releases a competitive e-bike…

Until then they will do everything to squash any start-ups (like Stark).
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TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 11/20/2022 8:52am
11/20/2022 8:52am
resetjet wrote:
I read the 2022 rulebook and i dont specifically see ebikes mentioned. Can they even finish a main? How long will it be before somebody produces...
I read the 2022 rulebook and i dont specifically see ebikes mentioned.

Can they even finish a main?

How long will it be before somebody produces these in mass. Odd that there are no specific rules in the sx rulebook. There is a specific rule in mxsports to only allow an e mini class.

I thought i remember seeing that they are banned from ama racing at this point but i didnt see it.

Before you kill me i did search.

My initial educated guesses:

Does the rule book allow for an electric power plant?

Has -anyone- gotten close to 400 MX models?

Initially, I’d guess we’ll see an exhibition race…at a WSX round.

Hey, resetjet…?
Do you know how you fix 99% of the problems/error messages on an F35 Lightning II?
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Richy
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Richy 11/20/2022 9:03am
11/20/2022 9:03am Edited Date/Time 11/20/2022 9:05am
TeamGreen wrote:
My initial educated guesses: Does the rule book allow for an electric power plant? Has -anyone- gotten close to 400 MX models? Initially, I’d guess we’ll...
My initial educated guesses:

Does the rule book allow for an electric power plant?

Has -anyone- gotten close to 400 MX models?

Initially, I’d guess we’ll see an exhibition race…at a WSX round.

Hey, resetjet…?
Do you know how you fix 99% of the problems/error messages on an F35 Lightning II?
To your last point, that's pretty funny 🤣 'Fix' is a strong word... Interestingly it's the same on a lot of fairly complicated (not in comparison, though) professional racecars.
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APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 11/20/2022 9:15am
11/20/2022 9:15am
resetjet wrote:
I read the 2022 rulebook and i dont specifically see ebikes mentioned. Can they even finish a main? How long will it be before somebody produces...
I read the 2022 rulebook and i dont specifically see ebikes mentioned.

Can they even finish a main?

How long will it be before somebody produces these in mass. Odd that there are no specific rules in the sx rulebook. There is a specific rule in mxsports to only allow an e mini class.

I thought i remember seeing that they are banned from ama racing at this point but i didnt see it.

Before you kill me i did search.

It’s fairly specific in that it mandates a single cylinder along with displacement limits for each class. The fuel specs are also exclusive to ICE engines, not electric motors.

So the answer appears to be “no”, they could not currently be raced legally in AMA SX. However, the AMA could probably make something happen fairly quickly if most of the OEMs agreed to it.
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TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 11/20/2022 9:40am
11/20/2022 9:40am Edited Date/Time 11/20/2022 9:41am
TeamGreen wrote:
My initial educated guesses: Does the rule book allow for an electric power plant? Has -anyone- gotten close to 400 MX models? Initially, I’d guess we’ll...
My initial educated guesses:

Does the rule book allow for an electric power plant?

Has -anyone- gotten close to 400 MX models?

Initially, I’d guess we’ll see an exhibition race…at a WSX round.

Hey, resetjet…?
Do you know how you fix 99% of the problems/error messages on an F35 Lightning II?
Richy wrote:
To your last point, that's pretty funny 🤣 'Fix' is a strong word... Interestingly it's the same on a lot of fairly complicated (not in comparison...
To your last point, that's pretty funny 🤣 'Fix' is a strong word... Interestingly it's the same on a lot of fairly complicated (not in comparison, though) professional racecars.
Reset would literally fall out of his chair if he’d witnessed the stuff I’m seeing lately…

“Hyd Sys Fail”…?
Restart
“Comms Data Fail”…?
Restart
“DCT ERROR”…?
Restart

It’s just like his biz-jet aka The Reset-Jet: got a problem?
Reset!
No Problem!
endurox
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endurox 11/20/2022 11:42am
11/20/2022 11:42am
start with an e bike exhibition series to go with the afternoon qualifying sessions and see how it goes. No rules, just let the bike manufactures show their product out on the track.
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Jeremy Macduff 11/20/2022 11:46am
11/20/2022 11:46am Edited Date/Time 11/20/2022 11:47am
AMA rules do not currently permit electric motorcycles to compete in specific displacement classes. They are only allowed to compete in open, non-displacement classes. Also, electric motorcycles are subject to "event supplemental rules."

Per the rulebook:
With the exception of specific E-Classes listed within the AMA rulebook, electric motorcycle eligibility will be determined through event supplemental rules.

When allowed through event supplemental rules, electric motorcycles will only be eligible to compete in open, non-displacement classes.

So, basically they are allowed to compete but on an event-by-event basis and, even then, can only compete in "open, non-displacement classes."
FilthyGrungy 11/20/2022 11:53am
11/20/2022 11:53am
After going through the 4t debacle, Ebikes should be forced into their own pro classes. As far as amateur mini’s go, TBD but hopefully the locals figure it out
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lestat
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lestat 11/20/2022 12:51pm
11/20/2022 12:51pm
Needs to be separate classes for ebikes . Trying to combine them is madness .
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JM485
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JM485 11/20/2022 3:06pm
11/20/2022 3:06pm
Limit battery capacity or limit the amperage that can be sent to the motor, that's all you need to do to regulate E-bikes for competition. It's really not that complicated or difficult, and it's something they should be working on now rather than delaying the entry of E-bikes until their hands are forced and they have to half-ass a rule that makes no sense.

I would hope that they're already working with Stark on this to make the transition an smooth as possible, but for some reason I have my doubts. . .
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quadzrulebro 11/20/2022 5:06pm
11/20/2022 5:06pm
They just need to make separate classes for E-bikes. If the AMA had done that with 4-strokes 25 years ago we’d all be happier.
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wwdiii
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wwdiii 11/20/2022 5:33pm
11/20/2022 5:33pm
I had to google homogulated!!!
8tensolutions
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8tensolutions 11/20/2022 5:55pm
11/20/2022 5:55pm
I think the easy fix is to make the 450 class an open class and run whatever you want as long it's homogulated and follows the other production rules.
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APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 11/20/2022 6:06pm
11/20/2022 6:06pm
Jeremy Macduff wrote:
AMA rules do not currently permit electric motorcycles to compete in specific displacement classes. They are only allowed to compete in open, non-displacement classes. Also, electric...
AMA rules do not currently permit electric motorcycles to compete in specific displacement classes. They are only allowed to compete in open, non-displacement classes. Also, electric motorcycles are subject to "event supplemental rules."

Per the rulebook:
With the exception of specific E-Classes listed within the AMA rulebook, electric motorcycle eligibility will be determined through event supplemental rules.

When allowed through event supplemental rules, electric motorcycles will only be eligible to compete in open, non-displacement classes.

So, basically they are allowed to compete but on an event-by-event basis and, even then, can only compete in "open, non-displacement classes."
Aren’t those the amateur rules? I don’t think that those provisions are in the Pro rules.
resetjet
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resetjet 11/20/2022 6:59pm
11/20/2022 6:59pm
resetjet wrote:
I read the 2022 rulebook and i dont specifically see ebikes mentioned. Can they even finish a main? How long will it be before somebody produces...
I read the 2022 rulebook and i dont specifically see ebikes mentioned.

Can they even finish a main?

How long will it be before somebody produces these in mass. Odd that there are no specific rules in the sx rulebook. There is a specific rule in mxsports to only allow an e mini class.

I thought i remember seeing that they are banned from ama racing at this point but i didnt see it.

Before you kill me i did search.

TeamGreen wrote:
My initial educated guesses: Does the rule book allow for an electric power plant? Has -anyone- gotten close to 400 MX models? Initially, I’d guess we’ll...
My initial educated guesses:

Does the rule book allow for an electric power plant?

Has -anyone- gotten close to 400 MX models?

Initially, I’d guess we’ll see an exhibition race…at a WSX round.

Hey, resetjet…?
Do you know how you fix 99% of the problems/error messages on an F35 Lightning II?
If i got close enough to an f35 to see it running with a failure up id piss my pants.
resetjet
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resetjet 11/20/2022 7:51pm
11/20/2022 7:51pm
Im just thinking its not a matter of if, but a matter of when. When that happens is it gonna be a repeat of the 2t 4t debacle? I guess the answer is clear that it falls under event supplemental or whatever it is, so i suppose they could add a race for ebikes. I guess none of the big 5 want to chew that gum just yet.
DrinkMoreWater 11/20/2022 11:21pm
11/20/2022 11:21pm
No chance until the Japanese OEM's make the switch.
Bearuno
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Bearuno 11/21/2022 2:02am
11/21/2022 2:02am
You know, I think if Alta hadn't pushed ( it was reported as being the case, at the time) for their bike to be in the '250' class, there probably would have been a place in the 450 class for them, the Varg, and other serious E bikes, already.
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SGoodman
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SGoodman 11/21/2022 7:24am
11/21/2022 7:24am
they would be roughly the same lap times.. if not a bit slower.... so why not? you won't be able to hear them... or anything at all racing next to thumpers.... but they certainly won't come in and destroy gas powered lap times...
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Jeremy Macduff 11/21/2022 8:26am
11/21/2022 8:26am
APLMAN99 wrote:
Aren’t those the amateur rules? I don’t think that those provisions are in the Pro rules.
Good point. There's no mention of electric motorcycles anywhere in the Pro rules.
plowboy
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plowboy 11/21/2022 9:14am
11/21/2022 9:14am
TeamGreen wrote:
Reset would literally fall out of his chair if he’d witnessed the stuff I’m seeing lately… “Hyd Sys Fail”…? Restart “Comms Data Fail”…? Restart “DCT ERROR”...
Reset would literally fall out of his chair if he’d witnessed the stuff I’m seeing lately…

“Hyd Sys Fail”…?
Restart
“Comms Data Fail”…?
Restart
“DCT ERROR”…?
Restart

It’s just like his biz-jet aka The Reset-Jet: got a problem?
Reset!
No Problem!
Yep, cycle power...magic.
resetjet
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resetjet 11/21/2022 4:41pm
11/21/2022 4:41pm
Jeremy Macduff wrote:
AMA rules do not currently permit electric motorcycles to compete in specific displacement classes. They are only allowed to compete in open, non-displacement classes. Also, electric...
AMA rules do not currently permit electric motorcycles to compete in specific displacement classes. They are only allowed to compete in open, non-displacement classes. Also, electric motorcycles are subject to "event supplemental rules."

Per the rulebook:
With the exception of specific E-Classes listed within the AMA rulebook, electric motorcycle eligibility will be determined through event supplemental rules.

When allowed through event supplemental rules, electric motorcycles will only be eligible to compete in open, non-displacement classes.

So, basically they are allowed to compete but on an event-by-event basis and, even then, can only compete in "open, non-displacement classes."
Are saying pro rules or just ama rules? For example at local ama hare scramble races there is always a guy or two on an ebike.
Darrin Willis
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Darrin Willis 11/22/2022 7:10pm
11/22/2022 7:10pm
It would need to be homogenized then homulugated.
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