"Normal" OTD prices

SEEMEFIRST
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SEEMEFIRST 11/6/2022 9:02am
11/6/2022 9:02am
Also, the recall thing is real.

Back in the late 70's, I was getting $85.00/bike to replace cranks in brand new YZ125s at my local Yamaha shop.

Who's going to do something like that if the customers are getting crate bikes?
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soggy
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soggy 11/6/2022 9:03am
11/6/2022 9:03am
SEEMEFIRST wrote:
Probably a huge liability to let 100% of the customers do final assembly and prep on a motor vehicle. You and I could pull it off...
Probably a huge liability to let 100% of the customers do final assembly and prep on a motor vehicle.

You and I could pull it off easily, but there are plenty of folks who still depend on someone to do even basic stuff.

So someone is going to have to put them together and prep, even if it's an independent "qualified" shop, he ain't doing it for free.
Yes and that’s fine. If your not comfortable doing it yourself bring it somewhere or have it shipped there and pay for it to be done.

If you do it yourself you assume the risk. It just seems like a small hurdle to overcome is my only point.
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soggy
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soggy 11/6/2022 9:05am
11/6/2022 9:05am
SEEMEFIRST wrote:
Also, the recall thing is real. Back in the late 70's, I was getting $85.00/bike to replace cranks in brand new YZ125s at my local Yamaha...
Also, the recall thing is real.

Back in the late 70's, I was getting $85.00/bike to replace cranks in brand new YZ125s at my local Yamaha shop.

Who's going to do something like that if the customers are getting crate bikes?
Authorized repair centers. I realize this is a pipe dream but all these roadblocks to doing it are not hard to work around.
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motoman154__
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motoman154__ 11/6/2022 9:07am
11/6/2022 9:07am
[California] Picked up a ‘22 YZ250F a few months ago. The first 5 or so dealerships I talked to wanted $10.5k+ OTD. Most were in the $11k-11.3k range. Then I found a dealership offering $9.6k OTD (bought that I mmediately). From what I understand, what goes into the price is MSRP + “destination fee” + tax + fees. For the bike I got, they knocked $500 off from MSRP ($8500 -> $8000), $800 destination fee (for all Yamahas I guess), then ~10% tax is another $800 to bring me to $9.6k. No fees. I couldn’t imagine paying upwards of $10.5k for any bike, let alone a 250.
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champipple
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champipple 11/6/2022 9:11am
11/6/2022 9:11am
sam hain wrote:
My KTM/Kaw dealer in north GA charges MSRP plus freight, if you pay cash they knock a little of the freight off. They have some good...
My KTM/Kaw dealer in north GA charges MSRP plus freight, if you pay cash they knock a little of the freight off. They have some good deals on Kaw dirt bikes right now with the rebates but they don't charge any BS fees. The rebate on the 22 KX450 "almost" made me want to come out of retirement and do some mx racing again.
mx965 wrote:
Yeah I was going to wait for the 23 Yam but these rebates on the kawi's are looking too sweet. What dealership is it in GA...
Yeah I was going to wait for the 23 Yam but these rebates on the kawi's are looking too sweet. What dealership is it in GA? I am in Nashville, if it isn't too far I could be enticed to drive.
sam hain wrote:
Performance cycle Dalton.
Have you tried Kawasaki of Rome? In my experience they always have better deals than Dalton.
mattyhamz2 11/6/2022 9:23am
11/6/2022 9:23am
agn5008 wrote:
I paid $10k OTD for my 2022 300XC in July 2021 from Ridersville. Most other quotes I was getting were between $11,500-12,500. I had a few...
I paid $10k OTD for my 2022 300XC in July 2021 from Ridersville. Most other quotes I was getting were between $11,500-12,500. I had a few dealers tell me they were adding $1500 onto the price basically because they could and they knew they’d get it.

I’ll be going to Ridersville again when I get a new bike. I won’t even call anywhere else. They earned my business when they didn’t try to overcharge their customers.
Langhammx wrote:
Totally understand that ! I drove 200 miles to pick up my bike today and did the same with the last 5. A good dealer Isn’t...
Totally understand that ! I drove 200 miles to pick up my bike today and did the same with the last 5. A good dealer Isn’t always the closest one to your house. I passed at least 4 on my way there….
Where’d you get it from?
Indy mxer
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Indy mxer 11/6/2022 10:13am
11/6/2022 10:13am Edited Date/Time 11/6/2022 10:13am
quadzrulebro wrote:
The reason a direct to consumer model would be very difficult to pull off is that without a dealership’s service department, there would be no one...
The reason a direct to consumer model would be very difficult to pull off is that without a dealership’s service department, there would be no one to repair units once they are sold. This becomes an even more serious problem in the event of a recall.
soggy wrote:
Bicycle repair shops still exist, same with automotive repair shops that have no affiliation with a manufacturer. 95% of the guys I ride with don’t bring...
Bicycle repair shops still exist, same with automotive repair shops that have no affiliation with a manufacturer. 95% of the guys I ride with don’t bring there bike to a shop to get work done. And the 1 in 20 that do don’t bring it to a dealer they go to independent shops. So I just don’t align with the thought that you need to have dealers.
Comparing this to mountain bikes is apples and oranges. The problem wtih your argument is you're only thinking dirt bikes. My brother is a Kaw/Polaris/TM dealer. MX bikes are his least profitable units. Streetbikes, SxS's and 4 wheelers are his bread and butter.
80% of those customers don't do their own service. You also have warranty and recalls.

He also doesn't add on bogus fees.

That said, some fees are BS, like a $200 doc fee. I know what they have to do paperwork wise on dirtbikes. It ain't much. Good thing is not all dealers try to f**k you on hidden/bogus fees. Shop around and support the good ones.



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wrc777
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wrc777 11/6/2022 2:05pm
11/6/2022 2:05pm
SEEMEFIRST wrote:
Also, the recall thing is real. Back in the late 70's, I was getting $85.00/bike to replace cranks in brand new YZ125s at my local Yamaha...
Also, the recall thing is real.

Back in the late 70's, I was getting $85.00/bike to replace cranks in brand new YZ125s at my local Yamaha shop.

Who's going to do something like that if the customers are getting crate bikes?
soggy wrote:
Authorized repair centers. I realize this is a pipe dream but all these roadblocks to doing it are not hard to work around.
If dealers don’t make any money on sales you would think they would be tripping over themselves to get the parts and service business only.
mattyhamz2 11/6/2022 2:24pm
11/6/2022 2:24pm
quadzrulebro wrote:
Independent repair shops in bicycling and the automotive world don’t do recall repairs that I’m aware of. Please correct me if I’m wrong. Keep in mind...
Independent repair shops in bicycling and the automotive world don’t do recall repairs that I’m aware of. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
Keep in mind that unlike cars, motorcycles are delivered in crates partially unassembled. In a sue happy society like ours, OEMs would never deliver a crated unit to a consumer for the consumer to assemble. If anyone does it, it will be the Chinese. Good luck taking an anonymous Chinese company to court for a liability issue.
soggy wrote:
I don’t know the answer to the recall question. But I think you could have ‘authorized’ repair shops that could do recall work(this seems to be...
I don’t know the answer to the recall question. But I think you could have ‘authorized’ repair shops that could do recall work(this seems to be the model stark is after). I guess all I’m saying is the hurdles to a d2c model seem pretty easy to overcome.
quadzrulebro wrote:
“Authorized” means they have been certified by the OEM. The OEMs offer training for their dealers. Same as in the automotive world. The need for authorized...
“Authorized” means they have been certified by the OEM. The OEMs offer training for their dealers. Same as in the automotive world. The need for authorized service centers is the primary reason that the dealer model isn’t going away any time soon.
In all fairness, some of those mechanics at “authorized dealers” do some pretty janky stuff and know nowhere near as much about bikes and being a mechanic as an average Joe…. So “authorized dealer” doesn’t really mean much in my eyes.
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soggy
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soggy 11/6/2022 2:32pm
11/6/2022 2:32pm
quadzrulebro wrote:
The reason a direct to consumer model would be very difficult to pull off is that without a dealership’s service department, there would be no one...
The reason a direct to consumer model would be very difficult to pull off is that without a dealership’s service department, there would be no one to repair units once they are sold. This becomes an even more serious problem in the event of a recall.
soggy wrote:
Bicycle repair shops still exist, same with automotive repair shops that have no affiliation with a manufacturer. 95% of the guys I ride with don’t bring...
Bicycle repair shops still exist, same with automotive repair shops that have no affiliation with a manufacturer. 95% of the guys I ride with don’t bring there bike to a shop to get work done. And the 1 in 20 that do don’t bring it to a dealer they go to independent shops. So I just don’t align with the thought that you need to have dealers.
Indy mxer wrote:
Comparing this to mountain bikes is apples and oranges. The problem wtih your argument is you're only thinking dirt bikes. My brother is a Kaw/Polaris/TM dealer...
Comparing this to mountain bikes is apples and oranges. The problem wtih your argument is you're only thinking dirt bikes. My brother is a Kaw/Polaris/TM dealer. MX bikes are his least profitable units. Streetbikes, SxS's and 4 wheelers are his bread and butter.
80% of those customers don't do their own service. You also have warranty and recalls.

He also doesn't add on bogus fees.

That said, some fees are BS, like a $200 doc fee. I know what they have to do paperwork wise on dirtbikes. It ain't much. Good thing is not all dealers try to f**k you on hidden/bogus fees. Shop around and support the good ones.



Yes I think everyone and there cousin knows your brother is a dealer cause you start every post with it.

The exact same model would work for SxS and everything else. Think outside the box folks.
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sandtrack315
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sandtrack315 11/6/2022 7:04pm
11/6/2022 7:04pm
wrc777 wrote:
If dealers don’t make any money on sales you would think they would be tripping over themselves to get the parts and service business only.
Was about to say exactly this.
captmoto
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captmoto 11/6/2022 10:47pm
11/6/2022 10:47pm Edited Date/Time 11/6/2022 10:48pm
GrapeApe wrote:
Just going off the Kawi website that bike has an MSRP of $9,599, minus manufacturer discount of $2,000, plus a destination charge of $435 and a...
Just going off the Kawi website that bike has an MSRP of $9,599, minus manufacturer discount of $2,000, plus a destination charge of $435 and a "freight and materials" surcharge of $300. That puts the price at $8,334 plus sales tax, which is probably pretty close to the OTD price on your quote.

I would push them on the add-ons to see how they got from $6,500 (about $1,100 below discounted MSRP) to $8,778, and at the same time remind them that bait and switch tactics are considered an unlawful deceptive trade practice in Tennessee.
Yep, you're right. Oops, our last bike just went out the door. Try again next year.
Orange
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Orange 11/7/2022 3:55am
11/7/2022 3:55am
I am paying 9600 OTD for our 23 250sx. That is basically msrp plus tax for Michigan. Small local dealer, could not be happier about that price. Now, if the bike would actually show up before the snow flies, we'd be stoked!

I got whacked when I bought my 22 300xc in April, the only one I could find, and a line of guys wanting it. The dealership knew it, and I had to pay...A LOT.

Fortunately I love the bike, and plan to keep it for a while. But, next time I buy, I am hoping things normalize. As a comparison I paid 8150 OTD for my 17 250xc in August of 2017.

The 23 250sx and the 17 250xc have the same MSRP. 8150 felt pretty good at the time.
Indy mxer
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Indy mxer 11/7/2022 5:02am
11/7/2022 5:02am
soggy wrote:
Bicycle repair shops still exist, same with automotive repair shops that have no affiliation with a manufacturer. 95% of the guys I ride with don’t bring...
Bicycle repair shops still exist, same with automotive repair shops that have no affiliation with a manufacturer. 95% of the guys I ride with don’t bring there bike to a shop to get work done. And the 1 in 20 that do don’t bring it to a dealer they go to independent shops. So I just don’t align with the thought that you need to have dealers.
Indy mxer wrote:
Comparing this to mountain bikes is apples and oranges. The problem wtih your argument is you're only thinking dirt bikes. My brother is a Kaw/Polaris/TM dealer...
Comparing this to mountain bikes is apples and oranges. The problem wtih your argument is you're only thinking dirt bikes. My brother is a Kaw/Polaris/TM dealer. MX bikes are his least profitable units. Streetbikes, SxS's and 4 wheelers are his bread and butter.
80% of those customers don't do their own service. You also have warranty and recalls.

He also doesn't add on bogus fees.

That said, some fees are BS, like a $200 doc fee. I know what they have to do paperwork wise on dirtbikes. It ain't much. Good thing is not all dealers try to f**k you on hidden/bogus fees. Shop around and support the good ones.



soggy wrote:
Yes I think everyone and there cousin knows your brother is a dealer cause you start every post with it. The exact same model would work...
Yes I think everyone and there cousin knows your brother is a dealer cause you start every post with it.

The exact same model would work for SxS and everything else. Think outside the box folks.
I only say that so people see I'm not just some Joe blow like you that knows nothing about the motorcycle business.

Dealers will always be essential to the OEM's for many reasons.

But just like in every business, there's good and bad dealers.
Just shop around and don't pay the bs fees.
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ThePizzaCobra
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ThePizzaCobra 11/7/2022 7:17am
11/7/2022 7:17am
I appreciate this thread. Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like price talk on here has always been a bit taboo. We need to normalize talking about OTD prices. Shops deserve to make money on the products they sell, but I like knowing when I'm being gouged.

I recently picked up a leftover '22 Gas Gas EX 350 for $9k OTD. The MSRP was $10,199. The bike was reduced to $8,801 + $199.00 doc fee. Purchased out of state - will have to pay tax if it's registered. For me, this was the best deal I've come across since my 2015 RMZ 250 for $6,000 OTD including NJ sales tax.

By comparison, I paid $11,269 at the same dealer in the beginning of 2021 for a '21 350 XC-F. It was the best price I could find at the time (mid-COVID bike shortages). The breakdown was MSRP ($10,699) + Freight ($450) + Doc Fee ($100) + MVA Fees ($20).
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SEE ARE125 11/7/2022 2:06pm
11/7/2022 2:06pm
I’ve been shopping for a TTR50. It has a MSRP of $1,749… for an OTD price I’ve been quoted as high as $2,900. Laughing Lowest I’ve found was $2,300. I’ll probably go that route, but I’m looking at used KTM 50 Minis now too.
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lumpy790
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lumpy790 11/7/2022 2:33pm
11/7/2022 2:33pm Edited Date/Time 11/8/2022 5:52am
IMO its not the true motorcycle industry shops that are doing this it is the dealerships that have been bought up by automotive dealerships and are using the automotive dealership thinking mentality.
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Bruce372
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Bruce372 11/7/2022 7:44pm
11/7/2022 7:44pm
soggy wrote:
I don’t know the answer to the recall question. But I think you could have ‘authorized’ repair shops that could do recall work(this seems to be...
I don’t know the answer to the recall question. But I think you could have ‘authorized’ repair shops that could do recall work(this seems to be the model stark is after). I guess all I’m saying is the hurdles to a d2c model seem pretty easy to overcome.
quadzrulebro wrote:
“Authorized” means they have been certified by the OEM. The OEMs offer training for their dealers. Same as in the automotive world. The need for authorized...
“Authorized” means they have been certified by the OEM. The OEMs offer training for their dealers. Same as in the automotive world. The need for authorized service centers is the primary reason that the dealer model isn’t going away any time soon.
mattyhamz2 wrote:
In all fairness, some of those mechanics at “authorized dealers” do some pretty janky stuff and know nowhere near as much about bikes and being a...
In all fairness, some of those mechanics at “authorized dealers” do some pretty janky stuff and know nowhere near as much about bikes and being a mechanic as an average Joe…. So “authorized dealer” doesn’t really mean much in my eyes.
This, I've lost count of rhe new bikes I've bought with the front wheel bolted up improperly.

I once waited 3 hours for a dealer prep on a new bike, they wheeled it out, fired it up and I watched as the front axle clamp bolt came loose from vibration.
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Orange
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Orange 11/9/2022 3:49am
11/9/2022 3:49am
lumpy790 wrote:
IMO its not the true motorcycle industry shops that are doing this it is the dealerships that have been bought up by automotive dealerships and are...
IMO its not the true motorcycle industry shops that are doing this it is the dealerships that have been bought up by automotive dealerships and are using the automotive dealership thinking mentality.
Agree, it happened with our local dealership about 8 years ago. They built a huge new building, opened a restaurant in the dealership, then started treating all their customers like walking wallets. They wanted 10,500 otd for the bike I am getting from a small dealership for 9600 otd. But, if you go there you can buy a lifted truck or jeep to haul your over priced bike.

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