New 2023 YZ450F

Falcon
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Falcon 7/27/2022 4:06pm
7/27/2022 4:06pm Edited Date/Time 7/27/2022 4:09pm
Here's a cool tangent that you guys may find interesting -

A Japanese OEM makes several pre-production versions of each model. They use the same assembly lines as the production bikes, but with a special set of parts for each version. Those units are not called "YZ450F," for example. The 2025 YZ450 may be called something like "GE12," or "MCBE." They would then attach a suffix or some other identifier to describe what it is. They will make a prototype, using the expected rolling chassis and parts. The plastics would be largely finished, but not all features would be present (especially any "new" ones, like a steering stabilizer or some new aftermarket part, like a handlebar or wheel change.) This bike would be called "GE12P" or something like that. They'll use this bike to inspect, measure, tear down and beta test. This thing gets hammered and will be crushed.

About 6 months later, the pre-production model will roll out. They'll make probably ten units, more if there are R&D people around the world working on it. This would be closer to the final product. It might be called "GE12Q" or "GE12PP." The changes that all the various departments have requested will be present on this one. All the accessory mounting holes will be present, any new parts, and for the most part, any graphics, etc. will be on the bike. It is the hope that this is the final version, but even this bike might not be final.

If there are any last-minute changes, those go into the next prototype run of about 40-50 units. This is also six months later, or perhaps more. These might be called "GE12Z." They are for display at trade shows, testing by regional distributors (Yamaha USA, for instance,) and photoshoots.

The next run of product will be the production run, wherein the thousands of bikes intended for sale will be built. This is when the model sheds it pre-production name "GE12" and gains its internal model name. (In the case of Yamaha YZ450s, I think it is called "1SY" for 2022 YZ450. You can see the model designation in many part numbers.) The timeframe for production is slated to give the distribution network plenty of time to get the machines shipped around the world in time for release. In other words, this would happen in the spring of 2024 for the 2025 model. Note that this is at least one year after the first grumblings of the "GE12" model were bolted together (early 2023 or late 2022.)

By the way, none of the bikes assembled in the pre-production process has a VIN. Know what that means? They ALL have to be crushed after being utilized for their tasks. Sad
20
Cayden Thompson 7/27/2022 5:03pm
7/27/2022 5:03pm
Falcon wrote:
Here's a cool tangent that you guys may find interesting - A Japanese OEM makes several pre-production versions of each model. They use the same assembly...
Here's a cool tangent that you guys may find interesting -

A Japanese OEM makes several pre-production versions of each model. They use the same assembly lines as the production bikes, but with a special set of parts for each version. Those units are not called "YZ450F," for example. The 2025 YZ450 may be called something like "GE12," or "MCBE." They would then attach a suffix or some other identifier to describe what it is. They will make a prototype, using the expected rolling chassis and parts. The plastics would be largely finished, but not all features would be present (especially any "new" ones, like a steering stabilizer or some new aftermarket part, like a handlebar or wheel change.) This bike would be called "GE12P" or something like that. They'll use this bike to inspect, measure, tear down and beta test. This thing gets hammered and will be crushed.

About 6 months later, the pre-production model will roll out. They'll make probably ten units, more if there are R&D people around the world working on it. This would be closer to the final product. It might be called "GE12Q" or "GE12PP." The changes that all the various departments have requested will be present on this one. All the accessory mounting holes will be present, any new parts, and for the most part, any graphics, etc. will be on the bike. It is the hope that this is the final version, but even this bike might not be final.

If there are any last-minute changes, those go into the next prototype run of about 40-50 units. This is also six months later, or perhaps more. These might be called "GE12Z." They are for display at trade shows, testing by regional distributors (Yamaha USA, for instance,) and photoshoots.

The next run of product will be the production run, wherein the thousands of bikes intended for sale will be built. This is when the model sheds it pre-production name "GE12" and gains its internal model name. (In the case of Yamaha YZ450s, I think it is called "1SY" for 2022 YZ450. You can see the model designation in many part numbers.) The timeframe for production is slated to give the distribution network plenty of time to get the machines shipped around the world in time for release. In other words, this would happen in the spring of 2024 for the 2025 model. Note that this is at least one year after the first grumblings of the "GE12" model were bolted together (early 2023 or late 2022.)

By the way, none of the bikes assembled in the pre-production process has a VIN. Know what that means? They ALL have to be crushed after being utilized for their tasks. Sad
Where you get this information?
1
MX558
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MX558 7/27/2022 5:43pm
7/27/2022 5:43pm
All I know if it's all new I will wait until the reviews are in . I learned my lesson on the 2010 model what a pile
6
motoarmageddon 7/27/2022 7:02pm
7/27/2022 7:02pm
Tomac sure doesn’t want a new bike. Hes gonna be the next Webb if they have a new Yammy. Or the next AP. Or the next Hampshire. Pattern?
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CLT809
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CLT809 7/27/2022 7:11pm
7/27/2022 7:11pm
Falcon wrote:
Tomac probably has not been bothered with it. He is busy testing the bike he is racing, and any info the team gets might be relayed...
Tomac probably has not been bothered with it. He is busy testing the bike he is racing, and any info the team gets might be relayed to the R&D engineers.
The thing is, however - and I can't put too fine a point on this - Yamaha's engineers might not care what Eli says about the 2022 model. And even if they do, his input will be applied to the 2025 model, because the 2023s are already being produced. There is at least one (probably 4-5) preproduction 2024s somewhere in the Yamaha building in Japan, and there are plans for 2025s already. Yamaha may be finalizing the clicker settings with their Japanese test riders in a Japanese facility, and they might decide to favor the opinions of the local (USA, Australian, Eu,) markets when the bikes are shipped to those destinations. Or not.
If the 2023 model is going to be 10 pounds lighter and feature 3 more HP, your dealer will know about it approximately one week before you do. (Or less.) From Corporate Yamaha's perspective, the Yamaha dealer is Joe Public. The only entity in America they will share information with is Yamaha Motor US. And even then, only with special persons whose job it is to keep a secret. Anything the dealer hears is from the district manager, who is probably not one of those people, so he heard it second-hand, and not in its entirety.
OEMs take their release dates seriously. They embargo the information because they want to make as big a splash as they can, just at the right moment.

EDIT: All the above assumes Yamaha's information embargo goes to plan. It's entirely possible your dealer was right before because someone leaked info.
You got downvotes, but I can confirm that’s exactly how it worked for the yellow OEM when I worked there. I laughed every time I’d travel out of my district to race, and meet a fellow yellow rider who claimed “my district rep told me e start and a new motor is coming!” Either they didn’t, or they had one of the few jabroni’s in the group as a rep who would make stuff up to seem like the smartest guy in the room.

Fact of the matter was the reps knew at 9 pm the night before the embargo broke (in the case of the redesigned rmz250 for 2019). People who actually knew were few and far between, and always higher up and/or Japanese. Dealers had access to a dealer bulletin the same time you could read the press release on vital.
4
Ryno23
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Ryno23 7/27/2022 7:12pm
7/27/2022 7:12pm
Lasse wrote:
Yamaha Factory riders barely know anything about the bike, your dealer is highly unreliable.
fpandjic wrote:
As I said, don't know if it is true. He was correct in the past... but you really think that factory riders don't know a thing...
As I said, don't know if it is true. He was correct in the past... but you really think that factory riders don't know a thing? I would say that Tomac already tested the bike...
Falcon wrote:
Tomac probably has not been bothered with it. He is busy testing the bike he is racing, and any info the team gets might be relayed...
Tomac probably has not been bothered with it. He is busy testing the bike he is racing, and any info the team gets might be relayed to the R&D engineers.
The thing is, however - and I can't put too fine a point on this - Yamaha's engineers might not care what Eli says about the 2022 model. And even if they do, his input will be applied to the 2025 model, because the 2023s are already being produced. There is at least one (probably 4-5) preproduction 2024s somewhere in the Yamaha building in Japan, and there are plans for 2025s already. Yamaha may be finalizing the clicker settings with their Japanese test riders in a Japanese facility, and they might decide to favor the opinions of the local (USA, Australian, Eu,) markets when the bikes are shipped to those destinations. Or not.
If the 2023 model is going to be 10 pounds lighter and feature 3 more HP, your dealer will know about it approximately one week before you do. (Or less.) From Corporate Yamaha's perspective, the Yamaha dealer is Joe Public. The only entity in America they will share information with is Yamaha Motor US. And even then, only with special persons whose job it is to keep a secret. Anything the dealer hears is from the district manager, who is probably not one of those people, so he heard it second-hand, and not in its entirety.
OEMs take their release dates seriously. They embargo the information because they want to make as big a splash as they can, just at the right moment.

EDIT: All the above assumes Yamaha's information embargo goes to plan. It's entirely possible your dealer was right before because someone leaked info.
Falcon wrote:

EDIT: All the above assumes Yamaha's information embargo goes to plan. It's entirely possible your dealer was right before because someone leaked info


Ummm... That isn't true. People know about the same second as we do as a dealer.
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Bradshaw Fan
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Bradshaw Fan 7/27/2022 7:21pm
7/27/2022 7:21pm
motoarmageddon wrote:
Tomac sure doesn’t want a new bike. Hes gonna be the next Webb if they have a new Yammy. Or the next AP. Or the next...
Tomac sure doesn’t want a new bike. Hes gonna be the next Webb if they have a new Yammy. Or the next AP. Or the next Hampshire. Pattern?
Tomac will not be like Paul. He will still win at least one race of the new Yamaha is not the best.
1
Falcon
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Falcon 7/27/2022 8:13pm
7/27/2022 8:13pm
Falcon wrote:
Here's a cool tangent that you guys may find interesting - A Japanese OEM makes several pre-production versions of each model. They use the same assembly...
Here's a cool tangent that you guys may find interesting -

A Japanese OEM makes several pre-production versions of each model. They use the same assembly lines as the production bikes, but with a special set of parts for each version. Those units are not called "YZ450F," for example. The 2025 YZ450 may be called something like "GE12," or "MCBE." They would then attach a suffix or some other identifier to describe what it is. They will make a prototype, using the expected rolling chassis and parts. The plastics would be largely finished, but not all features would be present (especially any "new" ones, like a steering stabilizer or some new aftermarket part, like a handlebar or wheel change.) This bike would be called "GE12P" or something like that. They'll use this bike to inspect, measure, tear down and beta test. This thing gets hammered and will be crushed.

About 6 months later, the pre-production model will roll out. They'll make probably ten units, more if there are R&D people around the world working on it. This would be closer to the final product. It might be called "GE12Q" or "GE12PP." The changes that all the various departments have requested will be present on this one. All the accessory mounting holes will be present, any new parts, and for the most part, any graphics, etc. will be on the bike. It is the hope that this is the final version, but even this bike might not be final.

If there are any last-minute changes, those go into the next prototype run of about 40-50 units. This is also six months later, or perhaps more. These might be called "GE12Z." They are for display at trade shows, testing by regional distributors (Yamaha USA, for instance,) and photoshoots.

The next run of product will be the production run, wherein the thousands of bikes intended for sale will be built. This is when the model sheds it pre-production name "GE12" and gains its internal model name. (In the case of Yamaha YZ450s, I think it is called "1SY" for 2022 YZ450. You can see the model designation in many part numbers.) The timeframe for production is slated to give the distribution network plenty of time to get the machines shipped around the world in time for release. In other words, this would happen in the spring of 2024 for the 2025 model. Note that this is at least one year after the first grumblings of the "GE12" model were bolted together (early 2023 or late 2022.)

By the way, none of the bikes assembled in the pre-production process has a VIN. Know what that means? They ALL have to be crushed after being utilized for their tasks. Sad
Cayden Thompson wrote:
Where you get this information?
This is how it worked at the OEM I worked for. I used to develop accessory products for ATV and motorcycles, and I was the guy who knew about the new models and worked with the engineers. I even went to Japan a few times to coordinate with the R&D team.
I did not do this at Yamaha, although I've worked for them, too. I'm making assumptions that they follow the same procedure, and I could be wrong. However, all the Japanese OEMs operate in much the same manner in a lot of ways; it's not too much a stretch to believe that's how they all do the R&D process as well.
9
Falcon
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Falcon 7/27/2022 8:16pm
7/27/2022 8:16pm
fpandjic wrote:
As I said, don't know if it is true. He was correct in the past... but you really think that factory riders don't know a thing...
As I said, don't know if it is true. He was correct in the past... but you really think that factory riders don't know a thing? I would say that Tomac already tested the bike...
Falcon wrote:
Tomac probably has not been bothered with it. He is busy testing the bike he is racing, and any info the team gets might be relayed...
Tomac probably has not been bothered with it. He is busy testing the bike he is racing, and any info the team gets might be relayed to the R&D engineers.
The thing is, however - and I can't put too fine a point on this - Yamaha's engineers might not care what Eli says about the 2022 model. And even if they do, his input will be applied to the 2025 model, because the 2023s are already being produced. There is at least one (probably 4-5) preproduction 2024s somewhere in the Yamaha building in Japan, and there are plans for 2025s already. Yamaha may be finalizing the clicker settings with their Japanese test riders in a Japanese facility, and they might decide to favor the opinions of the local (USA, Australian, Eu,) markets when the bikes are shipped to those destinations. Or not.
If the 2023 model is going to be 10 pounds lighter and feature 3 more HP, your dealer will know about it approximately one week before you do. (Or less.) From Corporate Yamaha's perspective, the Yamaha dealer is Joe Public. The only entity in America they will share information with is Yamaha Motor US. And even then, only with special persons whose job it is to keep a secret. Anything the dealer hears is from the district manager, who is probably not one of those people, so he heard it second-hand, and not in its entirety.
OEMs take their release dates seriously. They embargo the information because they want to make as big a splash as they can, just at the right moment.

EDIT: All the above assumes Yamaha's information embargo goes to plan. It's entirely possible your dealer was right before because someone leaked info.
Ryno23 wrote:
Falcon wrote: EDIT: All the above assumes Yamaha's information embargo goes to plan. It's entirely possible your dealer was right before because someone leaked info Ummm...
Falcon wrote:

EDIT: All the above assumes Yamaha's information embargo goes to plan. It's entirely possible your dealer was right before because someone leaked info


Ummm... That isn't true. People know about the same second as we do as a dealer.
Wink
So yeah, dealers don't know anything, either. Pretty much my point.

I remember hearing about new models a little early back when I worked at a dealer, though. Maybe I wasn't aware that the rest of the world found out at the same time. Grinning
Cayden Thompson 7/27/2022 10:24pm
7/27/2022 10:24pm
MX558 wrote:
All I know if it's all new I will wait until the reviews are in . I learned my lesson on the 2010 model what a...
All I know if it's all new I will wait until the reviews are in . I learned my lesson on the 2010 model what a pile
Lol right? I remember watching the intro for that bike and thinking it was the next best thing since sliced bread lol
1
nskerb
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nskerb 7/27/2022 10:35pm
7/27/2022 10:35pm
Falcon wrote:
This is how it worked at the OEM I worked for. I used to develop accessory products for ATV and motorcycles, and I was the guy...
This is how it worked at the OEM I worked for. I used to develop accessory products for ATV and motorcycles, and I was the guy who knew about the new models and worked with the engineers. I even went to Japan a few times to coordinate with the R&D team.
I did not do this at Yamaha, although I've worked for them, too. I'm making assumptions that they follow the same procedure, and I could be wrong. However, all the Japanese OEMs operate in much the same manner in a lot of ways; it's not too much a stretch to believe that's how they all do the R&D process as well.
Thanks for that explanation. Your replies seem to be generally level-headed. The last few we’re pretty detailed but I didn’t have the context to tell if you were blowing smoke or not. This insight is cool to read.
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Falcon
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Falcon 7/28/2022 8:54am
7/28/2022 8:54am Edited Date/Time 7/28/2022 8:57am
^You bet nskerb. I love to share info, not to sound like a know-it-all, but because I think it helps us riders to know how companies do their business. I'd go into more detail, but I did sign a few non-disclosure agreements and I don't quite remember all the prohibited info or the time when it expires. My tenure there was recent enough that I don't want to risk anything.
I'll spill all in about 7 more years! Grinning Grinning
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fpandjic
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fpandjic 7/28/2022 9:05am
7/28/2022 9:05am
Lasse wrote:
Yamaha Factory riders barely know anything about the bike, your dealer is highly unreliable.
So according to teaser, not only did Tomac rode the bike,but Chisolm and RV as well.
1
WhatsStoppingU 7/28/2022 9:08am
7/28/2022 9:08am
Eli ride the bike before he signed his contract
3
1
Dirty Points 7/28/2022 9:42am
7/28/2022 9:42am Edited Date/Time 7/28/2022 10:21am
MX558 wrote:
All I know if it's all new I will wait until the reviews are in . I learned my lesson on the 2010 model what a...
All I know if it's all new I will wait until the reviews are in . I learned my lesson on the 2010 model what a pile
Cayden Thompson wrote:
Lol right? I remember watching the intro for that bike and thinking it was the next best thing since sliced bread lol
I actually think the one thing they seemed to infer in the teaser: the tone of the marketing quotes "a new chapter", "a major improvement", "better in every area" is more that of a heavy refinement of the current platform than a step in a totally new direction.

Then it would be like: "Revolutionary", "The future of motocross is now", or whatever.
5

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racinstation 7/28/2022 1:10pm
7/28/2022 1:10pm
The clip a 25-27 seconds in shows the bike and the rear number plates and rear fender appear to be a new design. Should be all new plastic and slimmer frame.
4
HonDawg17 7/28/2022 3:09pm
7/28/2022 3:09pm
Why do a lot of guys think that hydraulic clutch is permanent? If any of the riders want a cable clutch...it will be swapped out easy.
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Money
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Money 7/28/2022 3:30pm
7/28/2022 3:30pm
WhatsStoppingU wrote:
Eli ride the bike before he signed his contract
Cayden Thompson wrote:
You know dam well he did.
Dang right he rode it before he resigned. Just like Webb rode the new bike the week after he won the title in 2021. Most the top guys ride the new bikes before they come out to give there feed back before the final production model. Also just think how many guys are now traveling to the goat farm for secret test…. Bet you would be surprised
1
Dirtdemon 7/28/2022 11:11pm
7/28/2022 11:11pm
Goat farm.
charge your batteries for the drones and get started.
1
TobyWilliamsfromaustraliamate 7/28/2022 11:36pm
7/28/2022 11:36pm
MotofactioN wrote:
They update the bikes too much imo. Let the gen run for 4-5 years damn.
soggy wrote:
The last major update on the yz was 4 years ago. In fact almost all manufacturers are on a 4 year cycle. Except Suzuki.
Exactly right my man 👍👍
1
TobyWilliamsfromaustraliamate 7/28/2022 11:45pm
7/28/2022 11:45pm
motoarmageddon wrote:
Tomac sure doesn’t want a new bike. Hes gonna be the next Webb if they have a new Yammy. Or the next AP. Or the next...
Tomac sure doesn’t want a new bike. Hes gonna be the next Webb if they have a new Yammy. Or the next AP. Or the next Hampshire. Pattern?
Bradshaw Fan wrote:
Tomac will not be like Paul. He will still win at least one race of the new Yamaha is not the best.
Eli definitely would not have signed the contract if he did not think he would be competitive on it. Also Star have so much more freedom than other race teams as in suspension and different components they can utilise, unlike teams like factory KTM who have a lot more constraints on what they can run. I think Yamaha and Honda will still be the leaders of the pack next season. Yamahas patent on the reverse cylinder engine has them ahead of all other OEMs in the engine department so until that patent expires and the rest of the crowd can do the same they have a huge advantage. I’m looking forward to seeing what they have done they are definitely a great bike!
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#434
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#434 7/29/2022 1:39am
7/29/2022 1:39am Edited Date/Time 7/29/2022 1:51am
motoarmageddon wrote:
Tomac sure doesn’t want a new bike. Hes gonna be the next Webb if they have a new Yammy. Or the next AP. Or the next...
Tomac sure doesn’t want a new bike. Hes gonna be the next Webb if they have a new Yammy. Or the next AP. Or the next Hampshire. Pattern?
Bradshaw Fan wrote:
Tomac will not be like Paul. He will still win at least one race of the new Yamaha is not the best.
TobyWilliamsfromaustraliamate wrote:
Eli definitely would not have signed the contract if he did not think he would be competitive on it. Also Star have so much more freedom...
Eli definitely would not have signed the contract if he did not think he would be competitive on it. Also Star have so much more freedom than other race teams as in suspension and different components they can utilise, unlike teams like factory KTM who have a lot more constraints on what they can run. I think Yamaha and Honda will still be the leaders of the pack next season. Yamahas patent on the reverse cylinder engine has them ahead of all other OEMs in the engine department so until that patent expires and the rest of the crowd can do the same they have a huge advantage. I’m looking forward to seeing what they have done they are definitely a great bike!
Patent for the reverse engine? No way they were able to patent that. Turned around engines in bikes have been around for ages.
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#434
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#434 7/29/2022 1:57am
7/29/2022 1:57am
Here’s Honda‘s NSF250R for the Moto3 class.

2
J_Hanna94
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J_Hanna94 7/29/2022 5:59am
7/29/2022 5:59am
Bradshaw Fan wrote:
Tomac will not be like Paul. He will still win at least one race of the new Yamaha is not the best.
TobyWilliamsfromaustraliamate wrote:
Eli definitely would not have signed the contract if he did not think he would be competitive on it. Also Star have so much more freedom...
Eli definitely would not have signed the contract if he did not think he would be competitive on it. Also Star have so much more freedom than other race teams as in suspension and different components they can utilise, unlike teams like factory KTM who have a lot more constraints on what they can run. I think Yamaha and Honda will still be the leaders of the pack next season. Yamahas patent on the reverse cylinder engine has them ahead of all other OEMs in the engine department so until that patent expires and the rest of the crowd can do the same they have a huge advantage. I’m looking forward to seeing what they have done they are definitely a great bike!
#434 wrote:
Patent for the reverse engine? No way they were able to patent that. Turned around engines in bikes have been around for ages.
Listen to whiskey throttles show when they interview star I believe it was Jeremy Coker who says Yamaha has a patient for the reverse engine on the dirt bikes
AH387
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AH387 7/29/2022 6:42am
7/29/2022 6:42am
J_Hanna94 wrote:
Listen to whiskey throttles show when they interview star I believe it was Jeremy Coker who says Yamaha has a patient for the reverse engine on...
Listen to whiskey throttles show when they interview star I believe it was Jeremy Coker who says Yamaha has a patient for the reverse engine on the dirt bikes
It was Brad but yes, he said something about the reverse head w/ the intake how it is, is patented.
DB505
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DB505 7/29/2022 6:55am
7/29/2022 6:55am
It’s so funny to me when people say ( turned around engine) they just switched the intake & exhaust valves for a straight down draft & tilted the head back a lil. For better mass centralization
Personally I’d like them to just make it slimmer with a lil better ergonomics,
But each to there own!
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DB505
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DB505 7/29/2022 6:56am
7/29/2022 6:56am
DB505 wrote:
It’s so funny to me when people say ( turned around engine) they just switched the intake & exhaust valves for a straight down draft &...
It’s so funny to me when people say ( turned around engine) they just switched the intake & exhaust valves for a straight down draft & tilted the head back a lil. For better mass centralization
Personally I’d like them to just make it slimmer with a lil better ergonomics,
But each to there own!
Oh and get rid of the black! Lol
8

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