Kinda Nutty Seeing These California Tracks Permitting 65/85’s /Amateurs/Novices Whatever-At The Same Time As The World’s Top Riders ?

dkurtd
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5/21/2022 2:14pm
ericgst wrote:
I still don’t see what you are all describing. You describe 4 year olds on PW50s riding with the fastest 450 riders in the world, yet...
I still don’t see what you are all describing. You describe 4 year olds on PW50s riding with the fastest 450 riders in the world, yet nobody has provided any evidence this happens. This is exactly how overstepping and unnecessary legislation is approved, by using irrational fear for support.

The video I watched had one 85 rider that probably rides with the A/B group and most the triple digit riders were holding their own well enough to not be a big problem
They are describing what was seen in the Cairoli and Roczen videos, see below. Plenty of mini riders in those two video's.

https://www.vitalmx.com/videos/features/Antonio-Cairoli-is-Stateside-RA…

https://youtu.be/y-ca9c-whjI
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ShipLap
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5/21/2022 2:34pm
davistld01 wrote:
I'll say one thing...TC looked a little freaked out in his Perris video by the novices that wouldn't pull over and get out of the race...
I'll say one thing...TC looked a little freaked out in his Perris video by the novices that wouldn't pull over and get out of the race line. He almost ran over several. I can't believe KTM didn't have him on a private track.
That kid (#39) on an 85 was ridin' good Smile .
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TeamGreen
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5/21/2022 2:35pm
A few years back at Marysville…

Came over a blind-short-double and LANDED on a downed CRF150R…got the kid OFF THE F’ing track as quick as I could (he was on ground-crying & UNDER the bike).
Chewed the parents ass.
Chewed for track operators ass.
They started segregating practice

Rupert is absolutely correct.
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Richy
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5/21/2022 2:38pm Edited Date/Time 5/21/2022 2:40pm
I'm with the guy who mentioned mini dad's, and as was said in the Kenny video thread, parents need to get their shit together, but it seems some tracks could do a better job of not letting idiots do idiot things... Even if it's with their own children.

In a perfect world people would have the sense to police it themselves, but some people are just too stupid so they need to be told they aren't allowed.

No reward and a tonne of risk.
6

The Shop

chasetwo79
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5/21/2022 2:38pm Edited Date/Time 5/21/2022 2:49pm
TeamGreen wrote:
A few years back at Marysville… Came over a blind-short-double and LANDED on a downed CRF150R…got the kid OFF THE F’ing track as quick as I...
A few years back at Marysville…

Came over a blind-short-double and LANDED on a downed CRF150R…got the kid OFF THE F’ing track as quick as I could (he was on ground-crying & UNDER the bike).
Chewed the parents ass.
Chewed for track operators ass.
They started segregating practice

Rupert is absolutely correct.
Not sure if this was the catalyst or not, but now you can’t go to a track up here that doesn’t separate the kids. We also generally have flaggers up here more too then when I go down to the SoCal tracks.
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ericgst
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5/21/2022 2:44pm
ericgst wrote:
I still don’t see what you are all describing. You describe 4 year olds on PW50s riding with the fastest 450 riders in the world, yet...
I still don’t see what you are all describing. You describe 4 year olds on PW50s riding with the fastest 450 riders in the world, yet nobody has provided any evidence this happens. This is exactly how overstepping and unnecessary legislation is approved, by using irrational fear for support.

The video I watched had one 85 rider that probably rides with the A/B group and most the triple digit riders were holding their own well enough to not be a big problem
dkurtd wrote:
They are describing what was seen in the Cairoli and Roczen videos, see below. Plenty of mini riders in those two video's. https://www.vitalmx.com/videos/features/Antonio-Cairoli-is-Stateside-RAW-Laps-from-Perris-Raceway,21253/ML512,13480 https://youtu.be/y-ca9c-whjI
They are describing what was seen in the Cairoli and Roczen videos, see below. Plenty of mini riders in those two video's.

https://www.vitalmx.com/videos/features/Antonio-Cairoli-is-Stateside-RA…

https://youtu.be/y-ca9c-whjI
I saw one mini being passed in each video and only the one from Ken was questionable, but it looked like the kid pulled out the way. At the end of the Roczen video, Ken looked like he was pulling off and all the minis were starting their moto. Not enough info in these clips to join the bandwagon and go all Karen on it.

I agree with the guy that said it is up to the parents. Some kids do better in the faster practice groups, but you should use judgement. If you show up on Pro day and it is just an open track, choose wisely. With that said, here in FL, I rarely see open tracks that don’t group sessions. At least not if they are very busy and there is not an alternate track.
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5/21/2022 2:44pm Edited Date/Time 5/21/2022 2:44pm
Chippy wrote:
This is what got a track shutdown a few years back iirc, Coastline MX. Kid got really badly injured too which was the most unfortunate part.
Here in Australia too.
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TeamGreen
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5/21/2022 2:44pm
TeamGreen wrote:
A few years back at Marysville… Came over a blind-short-double and LANDED on a downed CRF150R…got the kid OFF THE F’ing track as quick as I...
A few years back at Marysville…

Came over a blind-short-double and LANDED on a downed CRF150R…got the kid OFF THE F’ing track as quick as I could (he was on ground-crying & UNDER the bike).
Chewed the parents ass.
Chewed for track operators ass.
They started segregating practice

Rupert is absolutely correct.
chasetwo79 wrote:
Not sure if this was the catalyst or not, but now you can’t go to a track up here that doesn’t separate the kids. We also...
Not sure if this was the catalyst or not, but now you can’t go to a track up here that doesn’t separate the kids. We also generally have flaggers up here more too then when I go down to the SoCal tracks.
I’m not landing on a little kid? I’m good with it. Smile

What we do is dangerous enough WITHOUT additional risks that can only get people hurt…more often.
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Spergen
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5/21/2022 2:47pm
I remember the dads out covering the little guys, they used to also have sidecars and quads out with the solos plowing the berms 😆
Oh god don't get me started on the quads, especially when there was only a couple and they gave them 20mins track time each session!!!!! Grrrrrr. Mind you after a while they soon got rid of them and wouldn't let them ride.
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chasetwo79
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5/21/2022 2:50pm
TeamGreen wrote:
A few years back at Marysville… Came over a blind-short-double and LANDED on a downed CRF150R…got the kid OFF THE F’ing track as quick as I...
A few years back at Marysville…

Came over a blind-short-double and LANDED on a downed CRF150R…got the kid OFF THE F’ing track as quick as I could (he was on ground-crying & UNDER the bike).
Chewed the parents ass.
Chewed for track operators ass.
They started segregating practice

Rupert is absolutely correct.
chasetwo79 wrote:
Not sure if this was the catalyst or not, but now you can’t go to a track up here that doesn’t separate the kids. We also...
Not sure if this was the catalyst or not, but now you can’t go to a track up here that doesn’t separate the kids. We also generally have flaggers up here more too then when I go down to the SoCal tracks.
TeamGreen wrote:
I’m not landing on a little kid? I’m good with it. :) What we do is dangerous enough WITHOUT additional risks that can only get people...
I’m not landing on a little kid? I’m good with it. Smile

What we do is dangerous enough WITHOUT additional risks that can only get people hurt…more often.
Oh totally. I 100 percent agree. I’ve been riding for over 30 years on tracks and it’s part of the reason I try and get my rides in on weekdays versus weekends. I’m still scared of uncontrollable chaos.
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Renner153
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5/21/2022 3:06pm
ericgst wrote:
I still don’t see what you are all describing. You describe 4 year olds on PW50s riding with the fastest 450 riders in the world, yet...
I still don’t see what you are all describing. You describe 4 year olds on PW50s riding with the fastest 450 riders in the world, yet nobody has provided any evidence this happens. This is exactly how overstepping and unnecessary legislation is approved, by using irrational fear for support.

The video I watched had one 85 rider that probably rides with the A/B group and most the triple digit riders were holding their own well enough to not be a big problem
dkurtd wrote:
They are describing what was seen in the Cairoli and Roczen videos, see below. Plenty of mini riders in those two video's. https://www.vitalmx.com/videos/features/Antonio-Cairoli-is-Stateside-RAW-Laps-from-Perris-Raceway,21253/ML512,13480 https://youtu.be/y-ca9c-whjI
They are describing what was seen in the Cairoli and Roczen videos, see below. Plenty of mini riders in those two video's.

https://www.vitalmx.com/videos/features/Antonio-Cairoli-is-Stateside-RA…

https://youtu.be/y-ca9c-whjI
ericgst wrote:
I saw one mini being passed in each video and only the one from Ken was questionable, but it looked like the kid pulled out the...
I saw one mini being passed in each video and only the one from Ken was questionable, but it looked like the kid pulled out the way. At the end of the Roczen video, Ken looked like he was pulling off and all the minis were starting their moto. Not enough info in these clips to join the bandwagon and go all Karen on it.

I agree with the guy that said it is up to the parents. Some kids do better in the faster practice groups, but you should use judgement. If you show up on Pro day and it is just an open track, choose wisely. With that said, here in FL, I rarely see open tracks that don’t group sessions. At least not if they are very busy and there is not an alternate track.
Someone find the video of AC jumping over the kid on the 50 at pala last year. You are on some kinda drug if you ever think it’s ok for a 50/65 rider to ever be on the same track during a practice day. I don’t know of any track in Florida that doesn’t separate little bikes from big bikes at the very least. And guess what, not one complaint from anyone about that. Shoot just today and the local track we had 4 groups, 15 minutes each and no one complained about it. The fact that someone like cairoli is literally 3 straight aways faster per lap than any 50/65 rider, should say right there that it shouldn’t be happening…ever
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1
Spergen
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5/21/2022 3:07pm
ericgst wrote:
I still don’t see what you are all describing. You describe 4 year olds on PW50s riding with the fastest 450 riders in the world, yet...
I still don’t see what you are all describing. You describe 4 year olds on PW50s riding with the fastest 450 riders in the world, yet nobody has provided any evidence this happens. This is exactly how overstepping and unnecessary legislation is approved, by using irrational fear for support.

The video I watched had one 85 rider that probably rides with the A/B group and most the triple digit riders were holding their own well enough to not be a big problem
I don't need to see a video as I've seen it with my own eyes before they stopped it, gets bad when the tiny ones fall over and just lay there until someone picks them up. Not the easiest to spot after a jump or big whoops etc
1
Spergen
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5/21/2022 3:10pm
Richy wrote:
I'm with the guy who mentioned mini dad's, and as was said in the Kenny video thread, parents need to get their shit together, but it...
I'm with the guy who mentioned mini dad's, and as was said in the Kenny video thread, parents need to get their shit together, but it seems some tracks could do a better job of not letting idiots do idiot things... Even if it's with their own children.

In a perfect world people would have the sense to police it themselves, but some people are just too stupid so they need to be told they aren't allowed.

No reward and a tonne of risk.
Do you know what the ironic thing about common sense is?

It's not that common any more!
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5/21/2022 3:13pm
If these situations don’t scream profits over people than I don’t know what does….
What are these " profits" you are talking about ?
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1
5/21/2022 3:31pm
Mini Bikes should be separate . . . Too much of a speed & skill gap.

Although, one of my most memorable moments at Saddleback Park was riding the last open practice on my YZ100 and getting blasted by Mike Bell, Scott Gilman and Jeff Jennings coming out of the tree turn. Those guys were so fast they went around be like I was standing still !!!

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seth505
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5/21/2022 3:38pm Edited Date/Time 5/21/2022 3:40pm
ericgst wrote:
I still don’t see what you are all describing. You describe 4 year olds on PW50s riding with the fastest 450 riders in the world, yet...
I still don’t see what you are all describing. You describe 4 year olds on PW50s riding with the fastest 450 riders in the world, yet nobody has provided any evidence this happens. This is exactly how overstepping and unnecessary legislation is approved, by using irrational fear for support.

The video I watched had one 85 rider that probably rides with the A/B group and most the triple digit riders were holding their own well enough to not be a big problem
dkurtd wrote:
They are describing what was seen in the Cairoli and Roczen videos, see below. Plenty of mini riders in those two video's. https://www.vitalmx.com/videos/features/Antonio-Cairoli-is-Stateside-RAW-Laps-from-Perris-Raceway,21253/ML512,13480 https://youtu.be/y-ca9c-whjI
They are describing what was seen in the Cairoli and Roczen videos, see below. Plenty of mini riders in those two video's.

https://www.vitalmx.com/videos/features/Antonio-Cairoli-is-Stateside-RA…

https://youtu.be/y-ca9c-whjI
ericgst wrote:
I saw one mini being passed in each video and only the one from Ken was questionable, but it looked like the kid pulled out the...
I saw one mini being passed in each video and only the one from Ken was questionable, but it looked like the kid pulled out the way. At the end of the Roczen video, Ken looked like he was pulling off and all the minis were starting their moto. Not enough info in these clips to join the bandwagon and go all Karen on it.

I agree with the guy that said it is up to the parents. Some kids do better in the faster practice groups, but you should use judgement. If you show up on Pro day and it is just an open track, choose wisely. With that said, here in FL, I rarely see open tracks that don’t group sessions. At least not if they are very busy and there is not an alternate track.
Some of us ride these tracks and see it/experience it. If don't believe that and want to harp about karens and legislation, then go ahead and yell at the clouds.
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ericgst
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5/21/2022 3:55pm Edited Date/Time 5/21/2022 3:57pm
dkurtd wrote:
They are describing what was seen in the Cairoli and Roczen videos, see below. Plenty of mini riders in those two video's. https://www.vitalmx.com/videos/features/Antonio-Cairoli-is-Stateside-RAW-Laps-from-Perris-Raceway,21253/ML512,13480 https://youtu.be/y-ca9c-whjI
They are describing what was seen in the Cairoli and Roczen videos, see below. Plenty of mini riders in those two video's.

https://www.vitalmx.com/videos/features/Antonio-Cairoli-is-Stateside-RA…

https://youtu.be/y-ca9c-whjI
ericgst wrote:
I saw one mini being passed in each video and only the one from Ken was questionable, but it looked like the kid pulled out the...
I saw one mini being passed in each video and only the one from Ken was questionable, but it looked like the kid pulled out the way. At the end of the Roczen video, Ken looked like he was pulling off and all the minis were starting their moto. Not enough info in these clips to join the bandwagon and go all Karen on it.

I agree with the guy that said it is up to the parents. Some kids do better in the faster practice groups, but you should use judgement. If you show up on Pro day and it is just an open track, choose wisely. With that said, here in FL, I rarely see open tracks that don’t group sessions. At least not if they are very busy and there is not an alternate track.
Renner153 wrote:
Someone find the video of AC jumping over the kid on the 50 at pala last year. You are on some kinda drug if you ever...
Someone find the video of AC jumping over the kid on the 50 at pala last year. You are on some kinda drug if you ever think it’s ok for a 50/65 rider to ever be on the same track during a practice day. I don’t know of any track in Florida that doesn’t separate little bikes from big bikes at the very least. And guess what, not one complaint from anyone about that. Shoot just today and the local track we had 4 groups, 15 minutes each and no one complained about it. The fact that someone like cairoli is literally 3 straight aways faster per lap than any 50/65 rider, should say right there that it shouldn’t be happening…ever
I never saw that video and agree that is crazy. I was referring to the two videos referenced.Didn’t look too crazy in them. I would not let my kids with a 65 or smaller ride with full sized bikes, nor would I allow it at a track I ran. I just didn’t see the outrage in those videos.
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cwel11
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5/21/2022 3:58pm
Our tracks all mostly run A/B, C, 85, Vet, 65, 50. No way in hell should little bikes be out with big. Generally they send out the women with vets and not knocking the girls but there’s times I’ve closed up so fast on some of them it gets dicey. There’s no reason not to split it up. Just stupidity really.
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Brent
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5/21/2022 4:41pm Edited Date/Time 5/21/2022 4:45pm
I love Glen Helen as a race track, but no flaggers and no practice structure is not a smart thing to do.

I don't know of any other track in So Cal that operates this way.

To Fox Raceway's credit, very recently they have set aside Tuesday's for Pro/A/B practice on the main track. Slow or less skilled riders get waived off the track. Fox also has flaggers on all their tracks except the mini.

There is a twisted sickness that some mini parents need to have their kid on the track with world level professionals, I don't understand that mentality. No other organized sport does this that I know of.

Of course there are some amazingly fast mini racers around here, they are spectacular to watch sometimes. But their bodies are still small and will get injured more easily than and full grown kid or adult.

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Rupert X
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5/21/2022 5:16pm
I’m curious. You people that downvoted my initial post, OR, somehow legitimize the process of kids, or novices/ amateurs, practicing on the same track AT the same time- as the worlds fastest motocross professionals….Please, please…enlighten us, truthfully explain your rationale, your logic, as it may be, to which YOU feel this is, in any shape of form, makes any sense whatsoever ? Because, truthfully, I find it disturbing that anybody associated with our beloved sport, could find this to be acceptable behavior. Aside from safety factors on behalf of both sides, doesn’t it somehow take away from the professionalism, of the top level of sport ?
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Moto520
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5/21/2022 5:45pm Edited Date/Time 5/21/2022 5:47pm
I think it’s up to the parents to decide what is safe for their kid. They have to evaluate the situation and whether or not there are rules for it….they have to evaluate the safety. Do some of the parents not exactly understand how dangerous it is out there? Maybe the parent that never rode doesn’t properly understand the risk?

If a track doesn’t separate the classes to make it safe for your kid then DONT TAKE YOUR KID TO THAT TRACK…..AH AH WHATS THE MATTER WITH YOU (this is homage to the late Sam Kinison)
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5/21/2022 5:51pm Edited Date/Time 5/21/2022 9:09pm
Open ride day is a open ride day and the worlds top pro riders are there just like everyone else and they watch for others on the track and they are going fast but not race speeds all the time, no different than any other riders on the track mixed with A,B,C riders beginners etc that are not pro level, hell they are more dangerous. Its the same at lots of places. Some tracks break up the groups and that's great but if you have a young rider at the track its YOUR responsibility to pull them in or go to a different track if they are in danger

Just because Kroc was there he looked pretty tame and aware of others, he doesn't own the track and he can ride there also just like Reed, who rides with his kids and iIl bet he does some damn hot laps at times. Some of the tracks were doing PRO practice days before the nationals start where no one else was allowed to ride because it was race speed practice and lots of pros going for it. Lets not bitch the sport off the map.

Yes accidents are going to happen but there is no end all solution other than to not ride. I down voted your NFL analogy but I do think you have a point and as others have said splitting up the groups is a great thing to do but its still ALL OF OUR personal responsibility as riders whether your a novice armature expert or pro to watch out for everyone else on a practice day. Kroc was not burning lap after lap at race speeds , some quick stuff here and there but he was paying attention too because he can get hurt too on a open practice day .
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OCgoon1533
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5/21/2022 5:53pm
Do the pro's have any responsibility for safety of other riders? Or does everyone have to clear out when they show up on an open practice day?
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wwoberg
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5/21/2022 5:56pm
I grew up in So Cal in the 80s. I have not lived there in 30 years. But, back then, open practice was same way. At the time, I never even thought about it. It was not uncommon to show up at Saddleback during the week and ride with people like Ward, Hannah, Johnson, etc and not think 2 ways about it.

I still ride MX and, like the majority, feel like the current structure is flawed. But, although the gap between current pros and normal racers are much bigger than they once were, if you are riding practice at a major facility, regardless of age, size. You must be at a certain skill level to be out there in the first place.

If your riding will be a hazard to others, go ride some trails or a different track. Don't show up at GH a week before nationals start to experience your first time on track.

Sometimes accidents happen when good judgement and responsibility is avoided.
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5/21/2022 6:29pm
OCgoon1533 wrote:
Do the pro's have any responsibility for safety of other riders? Or does everyone have to clear out when they show up on an open practice...
Do the pro's have any responsibility for safety of other riders? Or does everyone have to clear out when they show up on an open practice day?
On a open practice day they have the same responsibility as all of us. They don't want to hurt anyone or get hurt themselves.
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davistld01
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5/21/2022 6:57pm Edited Date/Time 5/21/2022 7:05pm
Everybody seems to be bitching about Perris and that it’s a poor & poorly run track but why would KTM (I’m sure they were there) put somebody like Cairoli on a poor & poorly run track. Makes no sense to me. Why risk him getting hurt in some dumb way at a practice track, and throw away the coming season?
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Myke
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5/21/2022 7:00pm
Pala recently started on Tuesdays letting only big bikes on the main and it you looked like you can't keep a reasonable pace with the pros they flag you off.
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lestat
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5/21/2022 8:02pm
davistld01 wrote:
Everybody seems to be bitching about Perris and that it’s a poor & poorly run track but why would KTM (I’m sure they were there) put...
Everybody seems to be bitching about Perris and that it’s a poor & poorly run track but why would KTM (I’m sure they were there) put somebody like Cairoli on a poor & poorly run track. Makes no sense to me. Why risk him getting hurt in some dumb way at a practice track, and throw away the coming season?
I’m with you . I question how much benefit does a top rider actually get from dodging minis and novices ? Not to mention the bad publicity that would come should an accident occur . Seems nuts all around to me .
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Leeham
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5/21/2022 8:32pm
I can't even ride straight if I know I got a REALLY fast guy coming up on me. Carson Brown absolutely flying around everyone at local tracks. I just get off the track if I can
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