Serious accusations, Rocky KTM folding?

ACBraap
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ACBraap 4/11/2022 9:49am
4/11/2022 9:49am
m21racing wrote:
So if people don't get paid, while under contract; how do they get what's owed to them? The whole thing doesn't add up. Someone said it...
So if people don't get paid, while under contract; how do they get what's owed to them? The whole thing doesn't add up. Someone said it earlier: mismanagement of funds. They were a big name/team. So, wtf?
UpTiTe wrote:
You sue them, and they pay or they don’t.

m21racing wrote:
I get that. I'm talking about how this seems to be a reoccurring situation in our sport. You'd have to have a contract that would guarantee...
I get that. I'm talking about how this seems to be a reoccurring situation in our sport. You'd have to have a contract that would guarantee pay to the employees, even if team failed. How do you do that? Make them sign over personal assets to cover the bill if contractual obligations aren't met.
May change some things. Just a thought. But I feel bad for the riders/wrenches who get screwed.
In pro road cycling, teams have to have a deposit or bank guarantee for a portion of the payroll. Precisely because of teams folding and riders not being paid. Moto could use the same.

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Brent
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Brent 4/11/2022 10:09am
4/11/2022 10:09am
ACBraap wrote:
In pro road cycling, teams have to have a deposit or bank guarantee for a portion of the payroll. Precisely because of teams folding and riders...
In pro road cycling, teams have to have a deposit or bank guarantee for a portion of the payroll. Precisely because of teams folding and riders not being paid. Moto could use the same.

Well, that would be a great start, but the current stewardship of this sport does not have close to enough power to order that the OEM's and private teams to do such a thing.

Outdoor motocross seems to hanging on by it's toenails, and the various promoters are told what to do by the teams that really run this sport. Ask any pro racing official how much power the OEM teams have to make the rules.

Im not slighting any of the promoters, its just the reality of a sport that is so small and getting smaller.
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Kyle978
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Kyle978 4/11/2022 10:24am
4/11/2022 10:24am Edited Date/Time 4/11/2022 10:29am
You're not in the moto industry if you're not owed money by a team.

On that note - Hey Tony @ AJE - go fuck yourself, ya fat little troll.

It's honestly mind blowing how some of these dudes can sleep at night, let alone show face in the pits and keep getting suckers to do business with them.
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APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 4/11/2022 11:23am
4/11/2022 11:23am
m21racing wrote:
I get that. I'm talking about how this seems to be a reoccurring situation in our sport. You'd have to have a contract that would guarantee...
I get that. I'm talking about how this seems to be a reoccurring situation in our sport. You'd have to have a contract that would guarantee pay to the employees, even if team failed. How do you do that? Make them sign over personal assets to cover the bill if contractual obligations aren't met.
May change some things. Just a thought. But I feel bad for the riders/wrenches who get screwed.
Dr Wario wrote:
Correct - the NFL puts the player's money in escrow
Not for the entire upcoming season.......

They escrow a portion of the guaranteed money of the contracts, but most of the players don't really have guarantees after their signing bonuses that have already been paid anyway.

But it's an apples to oranges comparison at best because the NFL is a league that grants franchises and limits the number of organizations that are allowed to join it. They are valuable, money making (even if they are negative cash flow at times) businesses due to massive appreciation.

MX/SX is actually desperate to get more and more teams/organizations to enter it and have no leverage to institute the measures that a league issuing franchises has.

The new World SX championship just may have some of that, however........
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ACBraap
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ACBraap 4/11/2022 11:46am
4/11/2022 11:46am
Kyle978 wrote:
You're not in the moto industry if you're not owed money by a team. On that note - Hey Tony @ AJE - go fuck yourself...
You're not in the moto industry if you're not owed money by a team.

On that note - Hey Tony @ AJE - go fuck yourself, ya fat little troll.

It's honestly mind blowing how some of these dudes can sleep at night, let alone show face in the pits and keep getting suckers to do business with them.
it's the same reason Varner is able to stay in business.
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mattyhamz2 4/11/2022 11:58am
4/11/2022 11:58am
ehr400 wrote:
Agreed, I understand Steve can’t burn bridges, I just find the irony of him blowing out the team Karnow got fucked by, and others in past...
Agreed, I understand Steve can’t burn bridges, I just find the irony of him blowing out the team Karnow got fucked by, and others in past, then these guys bbmx do it on a grander scale. Hard to be objective when these guys are bros. I guess where do people start connecting dots on how the same people just get recycled in the industry and act shocked when same shit keeps happening? Cooksey is goofy but he was right.
mattyhamz2 wrote:
I think there’s a difference there in that the guy sponsoring Karnow popped up out of nowhere and no one from his area even knew who...
I think there’s a difference there in that the guy sponsoring Karnow popped up out of nowhere and no one from his area even knew who the guy/company was. BBMX had been around now for how many years? I truly believe that’s why there was such a big difference on how that’s being handled by Steve.
McG194 wrote:
So, it's ok to be biased in your reporting?
I didn't say it was okay, just gave what I believe was the difference in how Steve was handling it.
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Dr Wario
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Dr Wario 4/11/2022 12:20pm
4/11/2022 12:20pm
m21racing wrote:
I get that. I'm talking about how this seems to be a reoccurring situation in our sport. You'd have to have a contract that would guarantee...
I get that. I'm talking about how this seems to be a reoccurring situation in our sport. You'd have to have a contract that would guarantee pay to the employees, even if team failed. How do you do that? Make them sign over personal assets to cover the bill if contractual obligations aren't met.
May change some things. Just a thought. But I feel bad for the riders/wrenches who get screwed.
Dr Wario wrote:
Correct - the NFL puts the player's money in escrow
APLMAN99 wrote:
Not for the entire upcoming season....... They escrow a portion of the guaranteed money of the contracts, but most of the players don't really have guarantees...
Not for the entire upcoming season.......

They escrow a portion of the guaranteed money of the contracts, but most of the players don't really have guarantees after their signing bonuses that have already been paid anyway.

But it's an apples to oranges comparison at best because the NFL is a league that grants franchises and limits the number of organizations that are allowed to join it. They are valuable, money making (even if they are negative cash flow at times) businesses due to massive appreciation.

MX/SX is actually desperate to get more and more teams/organizations to enter it and have no leverage to institute the measures that a league issuing franchises has.

The new World SX championship just may have some of that, however........
That's correct and I agree. I describe it as a feasible way to enforce discipline in the business. Also agree that "teams" will not want it, but across the industry it would reduce sponsor investment risk. So, I would think they could request that setup, but would be hard to standardize....
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Tiki
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Tiki 4/11/2022 12:49pm
4/11/2022 12:49pm
To sum up this thread of now 11 pages onto 12.

How it started: They guy that breaks the story is a kook and should be flogged for being a Lying liar, McLiar Face.

How its going: How dare riders get stiffed, The riders that didn't get paid should rob and steal and sell things online. And why didn't they ride even if they had the chance?
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LungButter
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LungButter 4/11/2022 12:56pm
4/11/2022 12:56pm
Tiki wrote:
To sum up this thread of now 11 pages onto 12. How it started: They guy that breaks the story is a kook and should be...
To sum up this thread of now 11 pages onto 12.

How it started: They guy that breaks the story is a kook and should be flogged for being a Lying liar, McLiar Face.

How its going: How dare riders get stiffed, The riders that didn't get paid should rob and steal and sell things online. And why didn't they ride even if they had the chance?
Ummm...ok...if you say so....
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1911
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1911 4/11/2022 1:40pm
4/11/2022 1:40pm
Tiki wrote:
To sum up this thread of now 11 pages onto 12. How it started: They guy that breaks the story is a kook and should be...
To sum up this thread of now 11 pages onto 12.

How it started: They guy that breaks the story is a kook and should be flogged for being a Lying liar, McLiar Face.

How its going: How dare riders get stiffed, The riders that didn't get paid should rob and steal and sell things online. And why didn't they ride even if they had the chance?
Wait, what?
Hi Side
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Hi Side 4/11/2022 1:48pm
4/11/2022 1:48pm
Kyle978 wrote:
You're not in the moto industry if you're not owed money by a team. On that note - Hey Tony @ AJE - go fuck yourself...
You're not in the moto industry if you're not owed money by a team.

On that note - Hey Tony @ AJE - go fuck yourself, ya fat little troll.

It's honestly mind blowing how some of these dudes can sleep at night, let alone show face in the pits and keep getting suckers to do business with them.
I don't know the story here but this line "On that note - Hey Tony @AJE - go fuck yourself, ya fat little troll." seriously made me lol!
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Tiki
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Tiki 4/11/2022 4:16pm
4/11/2022 4:16pm
Tiki wrote:
To sum up this thread of now 11 pages onto 12. How it started: They guy that breaks the story is a kook and should be...
To sum up this thread of now 11 pages onto 12.

How it started: They guy that breaks the story is a kook and should be flogged for being a Lying liar, McLiar Face.

How its going: How dare riders get stiffed, The riders that didn't get paid should rob and steal and sell things online. And why didn't they ride even if they had the chance?
1911 wrote:
Wait, what?
Pages 1-4

Pages 9-11

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LungButter
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LungButter 4/11/2022 4:22pm
4/11/2022 4:22pm
Tiki wrote:
Pages 1-4 Pages 9-11 [img]https://c.tenor.com/BY6ybMD548sAAAAC/say-what-dunno.gif[/img]
Pages 1-4

Pages 9-11

There was one post saying riders should take shit and sell it on MXLocker…not to mention it was Sandusky who is the king of sarcasm around here.

But hey….it’s your story, tell it how you want.
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Thisusernameisavailable 4/11/2022 10:28pm
4/11/2022 10:28pm
Meister wrote:
So... I'm just catching up a little.. Max and Shane both decided not to ride due to not getting paid? I mean.. don't any of their...
So... I'm just catching up a little..

Max and Shane both decided not to ride due to not getting paid?

I mean.. don't any of their other sponsors pay them in some way?

Take a damn practice bike n go race to show heart. Basically what guys like Karnow are doing. Results won't be any different.

Shitty on the team n shitty on guys that feel they're too good just to go ride (if that's the case, but maybe I'm missing bits)..
Brent wrote:
This is their fucking job!
You go do your job for free!
Every privateer is doing it for free UNTIL they find themselves a sponsor.

Which is what Max could do- get a bike, go ride it, if Karnow can pull in the money, Max certainly can.
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nofearccracer
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nofearccracer 4/13/2022 7:24am
4/13/2022 7:24am
Meister wrote:
So... I'm just catching up a little.. Max and Shane both decided not to ride due to not getting paid? I mean.. don't any of their...
So... I'm just catching up a little..

Max and Shane both decided not to ride due to not getting paid?

I mean.. don't any of their other sponsors pay them in some way?

Take a damn practice bike n go race to show heart. Basically what guys like Karnow are doing. Results won't be any different.

Shitty on the team n shitty on guys that feel they're too good just to go ride (if that's the case, but maybe I'm missing bits)..
Brent wrote:
This is their fucking job!
You go do your job for free!
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
Every privateer is doing it for free UNTIL they find themselves a sponsor. Which is what Max could do- get a bike, go ride it, if...
Every privateer is doing it for free UNTIL they find themselves a sponsor.

Which is what Max could do- get a bike, go ride it, if Karnow can pull in the money, Max certainly can.
I have a feeling that Anstie's wife wouldn't approve of Karnow type sponsors lol
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swatdoc
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swatdoc 4/13/2022 6:40pm
4/13/2022 6:40pm
If there is a single person to blame in this whole fiasco, it’s obviously Joe.
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soggy
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soggy 4/13/2022 7:19pm
4/13/2022 7:19pm
Meister wrote:
So... I'm just catching up a little.. Max and Shane both decided not to ride due to not getting paid? I mean.. don't any of their...
So... I'm just catching up a little..

Max and Shane both decided not to ride due to not getting paid?

I mean.. don't any of their other sponsors pay them in some way?

Take a damn practice bike n go race to show heart. Basically what guys like Karnow are doing. Results won't be any different.

Shitty on the team n shitty on guys that feel they're too good just to go ride (if that's the case, but maybe I'm missing bits)..
Brent wrote:
This is their fucking job!
You go do your job for free!
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
Every privateer is doing it for free UNTIL they find themselves a sponsor. Which is what Max could do- get a bike, go ride it, if...
Every privateer is doing it for free UNTIL they find themselves a sponsor.

Which is what Max could do- get a bike, go ride it, if Karnow can pull in the money, Max certainly can.
What an idiotic statement.
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Thisusernameisavailable 4/14/2022 8:29am
4/14/2022 8:29am
soggy wrote:
What an idiotic statement.
Are you trying to demonstrate dominance?

Or are you trying to export pain?
It’s understood that after you have been victimized, it Is perversely satisfying to reverse the roles and make someone else be a victim.

Whichever it is, I hope you find peace dude.x
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Pit Row

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McG194
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McG194 4/14/2022 8:36am
4/14/2022 8:36am
The big question I have is does BBMX show up this weekend in Atlanta? He was working hard around the pits last week trying to get a rider. Has he salvaged anything this week?
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Money
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Money 4/14/2022 8:36am
4/14/2022 8:36am
So what are shane and max gonna do?
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wvumounty
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wvumounty 4/14/2022 9:40am
4/14/2022 9:40am
Cooks probably knows.
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LungButter
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LungButter 4/14/2022 9:47am
4/14/2022 9:47am
Money wrote:
So what are shane and max gonna do?
Max probably bought a Suzuki to go at it on his own....
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Thisusernameisavailable 4/14/2022 9:56am
4/14/2022 9:56am
Money wrote:
So what are shane and max gonna do?
LungButter wrote:
Max probably bought a Suzuki to go at it on his own....
If only HEP could turn out a bike to offer him. That’d be cool!
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McG194
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McG194 4/14/2022 10:57am
4/14/2022 10:57am
Money wrote:
So what are shane and max gonna do?
I really wonder about Max, supposedly his deal was with Butler's partner who wasn't a partner. Is he putting something together?
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LungButter
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LungButter 4/14/2022 11:13am
4/14/2022 11:13am
McG194 wrote:
I really wonder about Max, supposedly his deal was with Butler's partner who wasn't a partner. Is he putting something together?
In all seriousness, I bet if he is that they will just wait until the Nationals at this point.
KONG
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KONG 4/14/2022 11:30am
4/14/2022 11:30am
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
If only HEP could turn out a bike to offer him. That’d be cool!
He sure could use some HEP.
Laughing
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TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 4/14/2022 11:44am
4/14/2022 11:44am
Money wrote:
So what are shane and max gonna do?
McG194 wrote:
I really wonder about Max, supposedly his deal was with Butler's partner who wasn't a partner. Is he putting something together?
Who’s “Butler’s Partner”?

Both sides have said there’s NO partnership.

As for Max? I’m guessing he better figure out what or who he’s contractually obligated to…or not.
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JazzyJJ
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JazzyJJ 4/14/2022 11:48am
4/14/2022 11:48am
McG194 wrote:
The big question I have is does BBMX show up this weekend in Atlanta? He was working hard around the pits last week trying to get...
The big question I have is does BBMX show up this weekend in Atlanta? He was working hard around the pits last week trying to get a rider. Has he salvaged anything this week?
If I was a potential rider, that money better hit my account before I take a step towards ATL
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Thisusernameisavailable 4/14/2022 11:48am
4/14/2022 11:48am
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
If only HEP could turn out a bike to offer him. That’d be cool!
KONG wrote:
He sure could use some HEP.
Laughing
If I was in charge at HEP, I’d do it! After the complaining last year, their yellow rig looks pretty darn good right now to Max, I’m sure.
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